[chochemonger1]

I agree with Dash's more scientific and thus more "universal" standards of beauty argument. All the counterarguments sound like anecdotal .."my opinion is just as good as anyone" type of arguments i hear from women all the time. That is why in this forum evolutionary-scientific arguments should be viewed as superior to opinions from dudes who rationalize: "i dont care what other people think but i have my own standards".
Dash was trying to make the point that many beauty traits men find attractive are hard -wired in our brains and universal: thus even babies tend to look and fixate more on pictures of people with "attractive" traits All it is is common sense science.

[Dash Global]

(10-22-2011 09:01 AM)chochemonger1 Wrote:  

I agree with Dash's more scientific and thus more "universal" standards of beauty argument. All the counterarguments sound like anecdotal .."my opinion is just as good as anyone" type of arguments i hear from women all the time. That is why in this forum evolutionary-scientific arguments should be viewed as superior to opinions from dudes who rationalize: "i dont care what other people think but i have my own standards".
Dash was trying to make the point that many beauty traits men find attractive are hard -wired in our brains and universal: thus even babies tend to look and fixate more on pictures of people with "attractive" traits All it is is common sense science.

Its a science. Im glad someone "gets" it.

The thought / claim of Universal attractive traits offends some people that dont have proper grasp on reality and on attraction in general.

[Entropy4]

There have been scientifically studied measurements of beauty, but it's important to keep in mind that these represent the average perception worldwide. Although biology dictates certain preferences, psychology plays a large part in it as well. Think of it as a bell-curve, the science shows you where the middle is, but there will always be people on the extremes. Some dudes love fat chicks, other guys like really short busty girls, others like tall, rail-thin, black girls. Etc.

So yes, scientifically speaking, there are universal standards of beauty. But in conversations between two specific individuals, or even conversations between a few dozen guys (like this forum), it's not really that useful. We all have our own tastes, preferences and deviations from the norm.

[WEDO]

(10-22-2011 09:11 AM)Dash Global Wrote:  

(10-22-2011 09:01 AM)chochemonger1 Wrote:  

I agree with Dash's more scientific and thus more "universal" standards of beauty argument. All the counterarguments sound like anecdotal .."my opinion is just as good as anyone" type of arguments i hear from women all the time. That is why in this forum evolutionary-scientific arguments should be viewed as superior to opinions from dudes who rationalize: "i dont care what other people think but i have my own standards".
Dash was trying to make the point that many beauty traits men find attractive are hard -wired in our brains and universal: thus even babies tend to look and fixate more on pictures of people with "attractive" traits All it is is common sense science.

Its a science. Im glad someone "gets" it.

The thought / claim of Universal attractive traits offends some people that dont have proper grasp on reality and on attraction in general.

I often read these posts and wonder if the women these guys are hitting on are really all that....I think you have proven that you know what good looking is....so I gave you a 1+ on your reputation.

If you say a woman is good looking (or ugly) I for one will believe you.

[Dash Global]

(10-22-2011 12:24 PM)WEDO Wrote:  

(10-22-2011 09:11 AM)Dash Global Wrote:  

(10-22-2011 09:01 AM)chochemonger1 Wrote:  

I agree with Dash's more scientific and thus more "universal" standards of beauty argument. All the counterarguments sound like anecdotal .."my opinion is just as good as anyone" type of arguments i hear from women all the time. That is why in this forum evolutionary-scientific arguments should be viewed as superior to opinions from dudes who rationalize: "i dont care what other people think but i have my own standards".
Dash was trying to make the point that many beauty traits men find attractive are hard -wired in our brains and universal: thus even babies tend to look and fixate more on pictures of people with "attractive" traits All it is is common sense science.

Its a science. Im glad someone "gets" it.

The thought / claim of Universal attractive traits offends some people that dont have proper grasp on reality and on attraction in general.

I often read these posts and wonder if the women these guys are hitting on are really all that....I think you have proven that you know what good looking is....so I gave you a 1+ on your reputation.

If you say a woman is good looking (or ugly) I for one will believe you.

Thanks Wedo, your a smart man haha

Dont get me wrong. Every chick I hit on isnt a hb8+.

I usually focus my attack on the women that give off the most IOI's and appears to be DTF. The rating of these women varies and change nightly. It could be a hb9 one night and a hb5 the other (although a hb5 will be a end of night straggler most likely when I have no other option)

[oldnemesis]

(10-22-2011 01:38 AM)Dash Global Wrote:  

Group B cant be the better looking group PERIOD if there wasnt "universal standards".

This has nothing to do with standards. Using the analogy, let's say we're discussing the food. What I am saying is that "spicy" means different things for different people, and your "spicy" may be my "mild" or vice versa. I.e. there is no single universal standard what is spicy, and what is not.

Now what you do is bring a cucumber and jalapeno pepper, and you say that everyone agrees that jalapeno is more spicy than cucumber. Yes, it is. But this is a moot point. Just because jalapeno is more spicy than cucumber it doesn't make it the standard of spiciness.

And note that the example above is simplified, since the cucumber spiciness is fixed and it cannot change it. Looks are much more dynamic. Look on those two images:





Which of them looks better?
Think again.
You sure?
This is the same chick.

Quote:

You said looks and attractiveness are subjective. Well you cant agree with me and say Group B looks the best PERIOD end of discussion if looks were subjective and their wasnt a universal scale / standards.

Yes, jalapeno is spicier than cucumber. But I still can eat a few with vodka and enjoy it, so they're not spicy enough for me. My friend, however, would die from heart attack if he eats a single slice of it.

Hopefully you now understood the difference between objective and subjective standards. Just in case you didn't, "water is hot" is subjective. "Water is 100C" is objective.

[Dash Global]

(10-22-2011 11:50 PM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

This has nothing to do with standards. Using the analogy, let's say we're discussing the food. What I am saying is that "spicy" means different things for different people, and your "spicy" may be my "mild" or vice versa. I.e. there is no single universal standard what is spicy, and what is not.

Then you should have said "no, group B isnt the better looking group PERIOD. But I do agree/think group B is the more attractive group.

You cant say group B is the better looking group PERIOD end of discussion without there being Universal Standards of beauty.

And whats with the food analogies? lol

What does that have to do with EVERY korean person and american person agreeing that group B is the the more attractive group?

Obviously if everyone picks group B as the more attractive group than everyone must have the same metrics they use for gauging attraction atleast in this scenario.

Quote:

Now what you do is bring a cucumber and jalapeno pepper, and you say that everyone agrees that jalapeno is more spicy than cucumber. Yes, it is. But this is a moot point. Just because jalapeno is more spicy than cucumber it doesn't make it the standard of spiciness.

The spiceyness is a bad analogy imo as it is dependent on physical sensations and feelings where as attraction is cognitive. There is standards of beauty in every culture.

Quote:





Which of them looks better?
Think again.
You sure?
This is the same chick.

Some girls look better with makeup some girls look worse with makeup. Your point?

[oldnemesis]

(10-22-2011 02:07 AM)Dash Global Wrote:  

Sorry to break it you but there is a such thing as Universal Standards by race, and ethnicity. Yes different cultures and races and religions have different Universal Standards.

You said it several times. But could you finally describe those standards explicitly and completely?

Quote:

The Universal Standards Im referring to 99% of the time is American / Western Universal Standards. Whether you acknowledge this or not is irrelevant.

Wow. You're so funny in your self-righteousness. You know, the whole American population makes less than 5% of the world population, how could you set the standards? You do not. And your "Western" standards is even more funny - you REALLY think America, Germany, France and Denmark - all Western countries - have the same beauty standards??? Well, you may actually do - some Americans apparently believe the whole world speaks English - but isn't it just ridiculous? I mean, you really think every Korean dude would prefer to marry a Latina chick instead of some local?

Quote:

Dude if you aint seen a latina over hb7 than your are mentally handicap for better words. Sorry brah.

No problem. This is a very typical for the people who make a point but cannot prove it when asked - they usually retort to insults.

Quote:

That is one of the most dumbest things I have EVER heard in my life. Black chicks are at the bottom of my preference list, but I have seen plenty of fine black chicks. You need to expand your mind. Its far to limited right now.

Such an advice coming from a person like you actually means I'm perfectly fine. You know, what you wrote was as retarded as telling a vegan he should "expand his mind" and eat a beef steak - after all, a lot of American guys like it, so obviously there is something wrong with him, and he should like it too!

As a side note, your behavior is a perfect example why so many people around the world dislike, or even hate Americans. See, I never even asked your opinion about my standards, and I thought I made it perfectly clear that I was not interested in your advice at all. However you still tried to dump it on me - and in a quite insulting way. And I'm sure you even feel self-righteous about it, as if you showed me "the path" somewhere - and that you don't even understand how RETARDED it looks from the side.

Quote:

Yes, the latinas I see on tv in the movies and novelas are attractive. Why? Because people want to watch attractive women. I dont understand your last part. Did I only hang out with models? What does this have to do with how the women look on posters, billboards, and tv?

Because apparently the only girls in Korea which are "hot" for you are those at billboards and TV. This is why I asked if you keep the same standards in South America and only hung out with Latinas from billboards and TV?

Quote:

I dont care. You can think im "qualifying" myself to you all you want. I dont even know what the hell that means. I wouldnt even say I have standards. I just know what attractive women look like. Its real simple. My evidence is seen clearly seen around the world.

This is qualifying. You are trying to persuade me (see above) that your standards are worthy considering, that they're good and that you know what you're talking about. You even insult those people who disagree with your standards. Of course this doesn't work because not only I'm sure now you don't know what you're talking about, but you also lose points because the people usually try to qualify themselves when they do not have any evidence to support their theory - and they have no balls to just admit it.

Quote:

Personally they look like shit to me.

Now you're talking. See, there is a huge difference between 1) "there are no attractive chicks" and 2) "they all look like shit to me". The 1) assumes objective standards - i.e. that nobody would find any attractive chick there. The 2) is subjective, and if you just kept it like that, nobody would even say anything to you.

Quote:

I dont many people are gonna be appreciating "she is talking to me, so she must be interested" advice.

It doesn't matter.
I'm not writing here for you or for anyone else. This would be a job.
I'm writing here for myself. This is kind of self-expression.

Quote:

BTW can you refute any of the rebuttal I made against that theory of yours? Particularly the KNOWING, CRYSTAL BALL, or MIND READING comments.

I see no reason to. If you think you can insult the people, and then demand something from them, you need some major attitude check.

[oldnemesis]

(10-23-2011 12:16 AM)Dash Global Wrote:  

Then you should have said "no, group B isnt the better looking group PERIOD. But I do agree/think group B is the more attractive group.

The fact that you have to do comparison says you do not have objective standards.

Quote:

What does that have to do with EVERY korean person and american person agreeing that group B is the the more attractive group?

Obviously if everyone picks group B as the more attractive group than everyone must have the same metrics they use for gauging attraction atleast in this scenario.

I don't know. Either I didn't explain it well, or you're just too stubborn to understand what I said and the discussion with you don't make any more sense.
Does anyone else have trouble understanding my analogy?

Quote:

The spiceyness is a bad analogy imo as it is dependent on physical sensations and feelings where as attraction is cognitive. There is standards of beauty in every culture.

No, there are not. Look at actresses - you'll see blondes, and you'll see brunettes. You'll see tall girls, and you'll see short girls. You'll see large boobs and you'll see small boobs. There are round faces and oval faces, there are very petite chicks and average chicks. There is no single standard.

Quote:

Some girls look better with makeup some girls look worse with makeup. Your point?

My point is that chick at bottom looks definitely as in your group B, while chick on top looks as in your group A. So which group are you going to add her? Remember, this is the same chick.

[Dash Global]

(10-23-2011 12:30 AM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

You said it several times. But could you finally describe those standards explicitly and completely?

Attraction and beauty are very hard to explain and esp explicitly. This is a science and not something you can easily breakdown on a whim. I could break it down with pictures and examples of EVERY stage but damn that would take some time and effort.

Quote:

Wow. You're so funny in your self-righteousness. You know, the whole American population makes less than 5% of the world population, how could you set the standards? You do not. And your "Western" standards is even more funny - you REALLY think America, Germany, France and Denmark - all Western countries - have the same beauty standards??? Well, you may actually do - some Americans apparently believe the whole world speaks English - but isn't it just ridiculous? I mean, you really think every Korean dude would prefer to marry a Latina chick instead of some local?

I think you are confusing my Western comment to meaning Europe, Australia ect. Im talking about the U.S the western is just another term / description I use for America. I havent been to the countries you listed so I cant comment with certainty if the have the same beauty standards as the US. No a Korean dude wants to marry a pale petite slim stream lined face korean chick that he watches on the movies and sees in the music videos.

Quote:

No problem. This is a very typical for the people who make a point but cannot prove it when asked - they usually retort to insults.

What else you want me to prove? I have provide pictures of Koreans and what they consider attractive and even proved it is in line with how Americans would view their females.

Quote:

Such an advice coming from a person like you actually means I'm perfectly fine. You know, what you wrote was as retarded as telling a vegan he should "expand his mind" and eat a beef steak - after all, a lot of American guys like it, so obviously there is something wrong with him, and he should like it too!

Alil diff situation as taste is physical and not cognitive. But even still Id would be an ass and tell a vegan to expand his horizons and eat some damn good meat! lol

Quote:

Because apparently the only girls in Korea which are "hot" for you are those at billboards and TV. This is why I asked if you keep the same standards in South America and only hung out with Latinas from billboards and TV?

You are confused. All my statement means is that most of the women in the entertainment industry are attractive and one can get a feel for what that country/culture deems attractive and beautiful from simple observation.

My statement DOESNT mean that every chick in the entertainment industry is hot, nor does it mean that there isnt hot females NOT in the entertainment industry. aka Seeing hot females walking around that are not in that industry has nothing to do with the females that are.

Quote:

This is qualifying. You are trying to persuade me (see above) that your standards are worthy considering, that they're good and that you know what you're talking about. You even insult those people who disagree with your standards. Of course this doesn't work because not only I'm sure now you don't know what you're talking about, but you also lose points because the people usually try to qualify themselves when they do not have any evidence to support their theory - and they have no balls to just admit it.

You are confusing "persuading" with "educating". When ones persuades someone they are usually doing it because they want something or desire a certain outcome. I could care less if you understand attraction and universal beauty. Im simply discussing the matter with you.

Quote:

Now you're talking. See, there is a huge difference between 1) "there are no attractive chicks" and 2) "they all look like shit to me". The 1) assumes objective standards - i.e. that nobody would find any attractive chick there. The 2) is subjective, and if you just kept it like that, nobody would even say anything to you.

I like how you conveniently threw in "ALL" to my quote. Number 1 cant be correct because I dont know of a place and it certainly isnt any place we are talking about where "there isnt any attractive chicks". Your number 2 is not valid because you added "all" to my statement making in inaccurate. Big difference between saying they look like shit (im not attracted to the general look) and the ALL look like shit (meaning there is not attractive chicks)

Quote:

It doesn't matter.
I'm not writing here for you or for anyone else. This would be a job.
I'm writing here for myself. This is kind of self-expression.

I see no reason to. If you think you can insult the people, and then demand something from them, you need some major attitude check.

You see no reason to because you CANT.

Its ok we all say somethings sometimes that are not 100% full proof, so I wont fault you to much for the

I dont know this chick, but somehow I know that if she is talking to me than she must be interested in me theory.

[Dash Global]

(10-23-2011 12:40 AM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

The fact that you have to do comparison says you do not have objective standards.

I explained it and provided pictures proving my point. Not much else I can do on the issue. Guess we will just have to leave it at that.

Quote:

I don't know. Either I didn't explain it well, or you're just too stubborn to understand what I said and the discussion with you don't make any more sense.
Does anyone else have trouble understanding my analogy?

Try to explain to me why almost every Korean male and American male would pick group B as the most attractive group when there is no universal metric for measuring beauty. Because right now Im lost in your rebuttal and theory for this issue.

Quote:

No, there are not. Look at actresses - you'll see blondes, and you'll see brunettes. You'll see tall girls, and you'll see short girls. You'll see large boobs and you'll see small boobs. There are round faces and oval faces, there are very petite chicks and average chicks. There is no single standard.

Who said attractiveness was dependent on hair color or how tall or short they are? Who said a female with small breast couldnt be a hb8? Who said EVERY female with a round face was unattractive?

There is a standard, which was proven in the picture test I presented.

You simply cant or will not acknowledge it.

Quote:

My point is that chick at bottom looks definitely as in your group B, while chick on top looks as in your group A. So which group are you going to add her? Remember, this is the same chick.

Doesnt matter is she is the same chick or not. Like I said a female with makeup on can look better or worse with makeup thus increasing or decreasing her rating at the moment of inspection. So in this case the female looks better with makeup so they would be grouped in group B and without makeup she would be grouped in group A.

[worldwidetraveler]

(10-22-2011 12:02 PM)Entropy4 Wrote:  

There have been scientifically studied measurements of beauty, but it's important to keep in mind that these represent the average perception worldwide. Although biology dictates certain preferences, psychology plays a large part in it as well. Think of it as a bell-curve, the science shows you where the middle is, but there will always be people on the extremes. Some dudes love fat chicks, other guys like really short busty girls, others like tall, rail-thin, black girls. Etc.

So yes, scientifically speaking, there are universal standards of beauty. But in conversations between two specific individuals, or even conversations between a few dozen guys (like this forum), it's not really that useful. We all have our own tastes, preferences and deviations from the norm.

I agree. I believe the concept of universal beauty has more to do with symmetry than anything else. We will develop preferences outside of that but will still base "good looks" on the symmetry of the face and body when deciding who is beautiful.

[redneckpunk]

(10-23-2011 01:50 AM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  

(10-22-2011 12:02 PM)Entropy4 Wrote:  

There have been scientifically studied measurements of beauty, but it's important to keep in mind that these represent the average perception worldwide. Although biology dictates certain preferences, psychology plays a large part in it as well. Think of it as a bell-curve, the science shows you where the middle is, but there will always be people on the extremes. Some dudes love fat chicks, other guys like really short busty girls, others like tall, rail-thin, black girls. Etc.

So yes, scientifically speaking, there are universal standards of beauty. But in conversations between two specific individuals, or even conversations between a few dozen guys (like this forum), it's not really that useful. We all have our own tastes, preferences and deviations from the norm.

I agree. I believe the concept of universal beauty has more to do with symmetry than anything else. We will develop preferences outside of that but will still base "good looks" on the symmetry of the face and body when deciding who is beautiful.

yes symmetry is close to being a universal concept of beauty. So is teeth vs no teeth, acne face vs no acne face, and on and on.

If the entire point of this started bc oldnemesis said there are lot of hot chicks in Seoul then this has gotten out of hand.

In the largest economic centers in an asian country the people are typically better looking and more open to foreigners. (Tokyo, Shanghai, Seoul vs other cities in those countries).

So you are both right bell curve + universal standards but there are other standards of beauty that clearly aren't universal.

Dash you've never been to Seoul but saying "imo most girls in korea are ugly i have been here for 3 months" would be sufficient.

Also you also stated that big asses are universally attractive. Wrong

arguing over what tastes better a hamburger or a pizza is a waste of time imo.

less on what is a hot girl and more on where to get loaded and bang chicks in Korea. Thanks gents.

[chochemonger1]

Dash has made objective, scientific, and persuasive arguments about universal beauty standards(i.e. facial symetry) so i dont know what all the fuss is about. Using that line of argument, he argues and shows persuasively why he believes korean women arent that attractive on average. Now, he has only been to one city(2nd biggest city in Korea I believe) for 3 months, but thats a big enough sample for me. Whether Seoul is a little bit better and has more quality doesnt change the fact that if you are going to Asia (which I am in February) for the quality and easiness of the girls, Korea would be at the bottom of the list. 2 months ago I wouldnt have believed that. Good job Dash. SE ASIA HERE I COME.

[Dash Global]

(10-23-2011 07:47 AM)chochemonger1 Wrote:  

Dash has made objective, scientific, and persuasive arguments about universal beauty standards(i.e. facial symetry) so i dont know what all the fuss is about. Using that line of argument, he argues and shows persuasively why he believes korean women arent that attractive on average. Now, he has only been to one city(2nd biggest city in Korea I believe) for 3 months, but thats a big enough sample for me. Whether Seoul is a little bit better and has more quality doesnt change the fact that if you are going to Asia (which I am in February) for the quality and easiness of the girls, Korea would be at the bottom of the list. 2 months ago I wouldnt have believed that. Good job Dash. SE ASIA HERE I COME.

Yea man, your way better off in SEA imo.

Korea blows ass for attractive easy women.

Id only come here for a week TOPS to party in Seoul one weekend and hit up Busan and JeJu Island during the week in the summer time.

And ovcourse for the money in regards to teaching ESL. Although Im starting to think the money isnt worth the trouble.....

[redneckpunk]

(10-23-2011 07:47 AM)chochemonger1 Wrote:  

Dash has made objective, scientific, and persuasive arguments about universal beauty standards(i.e. facial symetry) so i dont know what all the fuss is about. Using that line of argument, he argues and shows persuasively why he believes korean women arent that attractive on average. Now, he has only been to one city(2nd biggest city in Korea I believe) for 3 months, but thats a big enough sample for me. Whether Seoul is a little bit better and has more quality doesnt change the fact that if you are going to Asia (which I am in February) for the quality and easiness of the girls, Korea would be at the bottom of the list. 2 months ago I wouldnt have believed that. Good job Dash. SE ASIA HERE I COME.

if 2 months ago Korea was the top of your list then you clearly didn't read any of the numerous threads that Dash started about Korea during the summer. The majority that lived there or visited there told him it is a depressing sexually repressed place, and the chance of failing/bolting early were high.

He ignored all info and after three months is looking for a way out, he initially planned for a 1-1.5 year stay and travelling to half a dozen other Asian countries. I value his posts, but if he listened to others opinions rather than argue with them he would be better off.

His heart is in Latin America and so that is where he should go, and he knows it. He also has a latin fetish and is in denial...major denial.

[Dash Global]

Redneck,

I didnt expect the Korean girls to no where near sexual as latin women. So that isnt much of a surprise to me. Also I thought I would be able to switch my game up and be aggressive and play the numbers game but that simply isnt my style. You can get laid here and have bitches but it will require work. I have been spoiled all my life in regards to girls so working for snatch aint really something Im good.

I knew what I was getting into here. Nothing really has caught me off guard to much. Well besides the kids having ZERO respect for foreign teachers.

The only difference is now im starting to think the money isnt worth it and im REALLY missing Latin America.

I need to suck it up and finish up my year. I really wanna visit Thailand and maybe another place. But at the same time I wanna get to Colombia, Peru, and Brazil.

Im not the best teacher and the hagwons is "business" first and foremost and you must keep the kids/parents happy which is something I dont think im doing right now. So im alil paranoid ill get fired. This is not really based off anything substantial but I just always think/prepare for the worst.

So im at the stage im gonna ride it out, but if I somehow get fired or work becomes unbearable Ill bounce. Although I cant imagine work getting that bad.

We will see.......

[redneckpunk]

(10-23-2011 08:58 AM)Dash Global Wrote:  

Redneck,

I didnt expect the Korean girls to no where near sexual as latin women. So that isnt much of a surprise to me. Also I thought I would be able to switch my game up and be aggressive and play the numbers game but that simply isnt my style. You can get laid here and have bitches but it will require work. I have been spoiled all my life in regards to girls so working for snatch aint really something Im good.

I knew what I was getting into here. Nothing really has caught me off guard to much. Well besides the kids having ZERO respect for foreign teachers.

The only difference is now im starting to think the money isnt worth it and im REALLY missing Latin America.

I need to suck it up and finish up my year. I really wanna visit Thailand and maybe another place. But at the same time I wanna get to Colombia, Peru, and Brazil.

Im not the best teacher and the hagwons is "business" first and foremost and you must keep the kids/parents happy which is something I dont think im doing right now. So im alil paranoid ill get fired. This is not really based off anything substantial but I just always think/prepare for the worst.

So im at the stage im gonna ride it out, but if I somehow get fired or work becomes unbearable Ill bounce. Although I cant imagine work getting that bad.

We will see.......

i don't think winter is going to help your attitude any either

[oldnemesis]

(10-23-2011 01:08 AM)Dash Global Wrote:  

I explained it and provided pictures proving my point.

Nope, you did not. Your whole "point" was like "yes, there are some ugly chicks in Korea". So what?

Quote:

Try to explain to me why almost every Korean male and American male would pick group B as the most attractive group when there is no universal metric for measuring beauty.

I already explained it multiple times.
What you are doing here is to trying to prove the existence of objective standard by using subjective means.

To explain it better, ten dudes agree that a chick A may look better than a chick B.
However one of them would rate the chick A as 1, and chick B as 4. The second would rate chick A as 3 and chick B as 7.
See where I am going?
You can't see or can't acknowledge the difference between subjective vs objective.

Quote:

Doesnt matter is she is the same chick or not. Like I said a female with makeup on can look better or worse with makeup thus increasing or decreasing her rating at the moment of inspection. So in this case the female looks better with makeup so they would be grouped in group B and without makeup she would be grouped in group A.

But it is the same female!
And now you're saying that a female could be put in a group A, then visit the beauty salon and move to group B, then get drunk at party and move to group A again, all within 24 hours?

Now how could you have objective standards if you can move a single chick between groups so easily?

[oldnemesis]

(10-23-2011 12:56 AM)Dash Global Wrote:  

Attraction and beauty are very hard to explain and esp explicitly. This is a science and not something you can easily breakdown on a whim. I could break it down with pictures and examples of EVERY stage but damn that would take some time and effort.

The truth is that you cannot.
In fact, nobody can.
Greatest writers, painters and philosophers of all ages talked about what is "beauty standard", and the conclusion was there was none.

Surprisingly, there seem to be a standard for ugliness - all ugly chicks typically have similar issues (busted, fat, old). However all beautiful chicks are unique.

Quote:

You are confusing "persuading" with "educating".

You're not educating me, as you didn't establish yourself as authority. So if this is what you think you're doing, you're wasting your time.

Quote:

Big difference between saying they look like shit (im not attracted to the general look) and the ALL look like shit (meaning there is not attractive chicks)

This is exactly what I said.

The "Im not attracted to the general look" is subjective - and it is a honest statement. Everyone understands what you talk about, and there could be no objections. Yes, you don't like the general look - no problems. This is how I feel toward Latinas as well, so I can understand it.

However the "there are very few attractive chicks" is more objective - and less true. It becomes objective, because now you assume everyone shares the same standards of beauty as you do, and that anyone going to Korea won't find a lot of attractive chicks there.

Now look at what you wrote:
What i mean by that is the number and % of girls that are hb8 + is really low. Most girls are hb4's

You see my point now? I disagree with "most girls are 4". But if you just said that you're not attracted to the general look, I wouldn't even comment it.
BTW I agree with hb8+ though, as the number for hb8+ of course must be low, this is VERY high standard (for me at least). However the attraction generally follows the bell curve, and if the curve is skewed (as it is in the US) then there should be reasonable explanation for that. In case of US we have the explanation, it is obesity epidemic and masculine behavior. But you didn't provide any for Korea besides that you don't like that look - and this says nothing to any future visitor.

Basically it is the same discussion as we had about Filipino food, where people were stating "food is horrible" and when asked for explanation, we found out it meant "it was pork and I don't eat pork". Subjective vs objective.

[Dash Global]

(10-25-2011 01:40 AM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

Nope, you did not. Your whole "point" was like "yes, there are some ugly chicks in Korea". So what?

The point was to show you that beauty can be measured and easily distinguished. aka there is Universal Standards. I supplied two groups of women. One group was better looking than the other women. You cant agree that the Group B is better looking PERIOD without there being some universal standard at play. You could have said "I think" that group B is better looking and I would have no merit for argument or rebuttal but you agreed that group B WAS POINT BLANK better looking PERIOD END OF DISCUSSION.

Quote:

I already explained it multiple times.
What you are doing here is to trying to prove the existence of objective standard by using subjective means.

To explain it better, ten dudes agree that a chick A may look better than a chick B.
However one of them would rate the chick A as 1, and chick B as 4. The second would rate chick A as 3 and chick B as 7.
See where I am going?
You can't see or can't acknowledge the difference between subjective vs objective.

How could all 10 dudes agree chick A is hotter when they give chick B a higher grade? Unless the hottest scale your implying is REVERSE.

But I think I know what you meant to say. 10 dudes agree that chick A is better looking than chick B. One dude rates chick A as a 8 and chick B as a 5. The next dude rates chick A as a 9 and chick B as a 6. The third dude rates chick A as a 10 and chick B as a 7.

Being a few points off is irrelevant in this scenario. The important thing to take away from this is EVERY man rated chick A higher than chick B. How could this be if there wasnt some Universal standard / metric at play? The answer is it COULDNT.

Quote:

But it is the same female!
And now you're saying that a female could be put in a group A, then visit the beauty salon and move to group B, then get drunk at party and move to group A again, all within 24 hours?

Certainly. Makeup can COMPLETELY transform a bitch. I have seen it with my own eyes.

Quote:

Now how could you have objective standards if you can move a single chick between groups so easily?

Easy. Just examine her face and rate accordingly.

[oldnemesis]

(10-25-2011 07:35 AM)Dash Global Wrote:  

The point was to show you that beauty can be measured and easily distinguished. aka there is Universal Standards. I supplied two groups of women. One group was better looking than the other women.

One can say that all you proved is that ugliness can be measured and easily distinguished. Which is a very different thing.

Quote:

But I think I know what you meant to say. 10 dudes agree that chick A is better looking than chick B. One dude rates chick A as a 8 and chick B as a 5. The next dude rates chick A as a 9 and chick B as a 6. The third dude rates chick A as a 10 and chick B as a 7.

Correct. My mistake.

Quote:

Being a few points off is irrelevant in this scenario. The important thing to take away from this is EVERY man rated chick A higher than chick B.

No, this is very relevant.

My point is that you can have two groups of chicks, both being ugly but one group looking better than other. So everyone would agree one group looks better, but you didn't set up any beauty standards because both groups are ugly.

Or you can have two group of chicks both being beautiful. In this case you'd likely to have people split apart on who's better.

So there are really NO universal standards.

Quote:

Certainly. Makeup can COMPLETELY transform a bitch. I have seen it with my own eyes.

And here you basically confirmed it.

Quote:

Easy. Just examine her face and rate accordingly.

Really?
Honestly if you only seen the first picture, would you put her into the group B??? I don't believe it.

[Dash Global]

(10-25-2011 07:39 PM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

One can say that all you proved is that ugliness can be measured and easily distinguished. Which is a very different thing.

So let me get this straight. Now your saying ugliness can be measure/proven and beauty cant?!?!? WTF haha

Quote:

Correct. My mistake.

Quote:

No, this is very relevant.

Nope it aint. Ill explain my next comment.

Quote:

My point is that you can have two groups of chicks, both being ugly but one group looking better than other. So everyone would agree one group looks better, but you didn't set up any beauty standards because both groups are ugly.

Yes you can have two groups of ugly chicks. And obviously metrically speaking one ugly group would look better than the other ugly group.

How do you know that they are ugly?!??!?

Go ahead and contradict yourself by answering that question.

Quote:

Or you can have two group of chicks both being beautiful. In this case you'd likely to have people split apart on who's better.

Yes this is due to preference and slight variations in ones understanding of Universal beauty.

Which I illustrated in the example I gave with the chick A and chick B where every man thinks chick A is hotter but each man rates her slightly different but ahead/higher than chick B every time.

Quote:

So there are really NO universal standards.

You are wanting to play both sides of field here. Which I noted in my previous comments.

Quote:

And here you basically confirmed it.

What exactly am I confirming?

I am confirming that make up can alter a womans appearance (appearance - the thing we use to measure beauty) Thus causing the same chick to get different ratings depending on the different appearances she generates with makeup or other cosmetic means.

Quote:

Really?
Honestly if you only seen the first picture, would you put her into the group B??? I don't believe it.

Really.

Her appearance in the first picture was not attractive. Thus I would put her in the uglier group.

Simple concept.

[jdreise]

So I've been hanging out on this site for a few months but haven't felt compelled enough to post anything until now. I taught in Korea for 15 months and absolutely cleaned up with, IMO, attractive Korean girls. Haeundae, Gwangali, Kyungsungdae were my old boozing and pussy chasing spots. I hiked all of the highest peaks in Korea and tried any Korean food that they put in front of me. Tried dakkalbi yet? I miss that stuff.

Dash, I gotta say that I think you'll eventually catch yellow fever. It took me about two months to come around but once I did there was no way I was going back to all those sloppy Waegook beer hags throwing themselves at anything that'll stick a dick in them. Almost every foreign guy I know in Korea goes through the whole conversion process. As with a lot of the Western guys in Korea, before I came to Asia I had no interest in Asian girls. Sure maybe, a hot Filipina or Thai or Maria Ozawa once in a while, but the majority of Northeast Asians... zilch. I did a few long trips to Europe and South America and prefered Latinas and Eastern Europeans like the majority on this site but basically just went to Korea as a way to make some quick cash and extend my travels.

Now I'm really glad I did as Asian chicks have become my favorite. I still like Latinas (just spent 3 months banging down Mexicanas this summer)but think that if I ever decide to settle down it's going to be with an Asian. They just age so much better than other ethnicities. When I see a girl with big tits and a big ass I immediately think about what she's going to look like at 45. Probably overweight. Most Korean women still look good at 35, 45, hell, even some at 55. Estimating their ability to age well is connected to my beta ambition to eventually settle down and have some kids. It'd be nice if I still want to fuck their mother after a few years too. I think Asian women fulfill that criteria.

So back to Korea... one thing that you're going to have to learn to do is appreciate the Asian aesthetic. As noted before, there is a different standard of beauty than the West. Once you embrace it Korea will become your playground. Learn some conversational Korean, make some genuine Korean friends (they legitimize you in the eyes of xenophobic K-girls), and approach everything that smiles at you.

Of course you should always go for the bang as soon as possible but just racking up phone numbers and playing the texting game is going to get you tons of play. I got almost all of my lays from K-girls that I met outside of the bar scene. On average it's much harder to pull a Korean chick away from a group of friends at the end of a night in the bars for a one night stand than any western chick. Even if she's a slut she doesn't want to look like one in front of her friends (In Korea looking like a skank that bangs dirty foreigners is a terrible label to carry around) Plus, if there are any Korean guys around they are going to cockblock the shit out of you. You might have to just settle for a number and try to get her to go out drinking with you by herself on a week night. Get her to your apartment and it's game over. Korean chicks don't just come over to hang out.

So... in conclusion I think you should just embrace it. Find a Korean chick that'll suck your balls empty, pay for meals, clean your apartment, come over and make you Kimchi Jigae, and you'll never want to go back to western chicks.

So yeah, that's my first post. If you have any questions about Korea send them my way. I put up good numbers there and would consider myself an expert in gaming them. I'm living in Bangkok now, so if you have any questions about this place (heaven on earth! and not just for asiaphiles) send them my way too. Later

[chochemonger1]

(10-26-2011 02:46 AM)jdreise Wrote:  

So I've been hanging out on this site for a few months but haven't felt compelled enough to post anything until now. I taught in Korea for 15 months and absolutely cleaned up with, IMO, attractive Korean girls. Haeundae, Gwangali, Kyungsungdae were my old boozing and pussy chasing spots. I hiked all of the highest peaks in Korea and tried any Korean food that they put in front of me. Tried dakkalbi yet? I miss that stuff.

Dash, I gotta say that I think you'll eventually catch yellow fever. It took me about two months to come around but once I did there was no way I was going back to all those sloppy Waegook beer hags throwing themselves at anything that'll stick a dick in them. Almost every foreign guy I know in Korea goes through the whole conversion process. As with a lot of the Western guys in Korea, before I came to Asia I had no interest in Asian girls. Sure maybe, a hot Filipina or Thai or Maria Ozawa once in a while, but the majority of Northeast Asians... zilch. I did a few long trips to Europe and South America and prefered Latinas and Eastern Europeans like the majority on this site but basically just went to Korea as a way to make some quick cash and extend my travels.

Now I'm really glad I did as Asian chicks have become my favorite. I still like Latinas (just spent 3 months banging down Mexicanas this summer)but think that if I ever decide to settle down it's going to be with an Asian. They just age so much better than other ethnicities. When I see a girl with big tits and a big ass I immediately think about what she's going to look like at 45. Probably overweight. Most Korean women still look good at 35, 45, hell, even some at 55. Estimating their ability to age well is connected to my beta ambition to eventually settle down and have some kids. It'd be nice if I still want to fuck their mother after a few years too. I think Asian women fulfill that criteria.

So back to Korea... one thing that you're going to have to learn to do is appreciate the Asian aesthetic. As noted before, there is a different standard of beauty than the West. Once you embrace it Korea will become your playground. Learn some conversational Korean, make some genuine Korean friends (they legitimize you in the eyes of xenophobic K-girls), and approach everything that smiles at you.

Of course you should always go for the bang as soon as possible but just racking up phone numbers and playing the texting game is going to get you tons of play. I got almost all of my lays from K-girls that I met outside of the bar scene. On average it's much harder to pull a Korean chick away from a group of friends at the end of a night in the bars for a one night stand than any western chick. Even if she's a slut she doesn't want to look like one in front of her friends (In Korea looking like a skank that bangs dirty foreigners is a terrible label to carry around) Plus, if there are any Korean guys around they are going to cockblock the shit out of you. You might have to just settle for a number and try to get her to go out drinking with you by herself on a week night. Get her to your apartment and it's game over. Korean chicks don't just come over to hang out.

So... in conclusion I think you should just embrace it. Find a Korean chick that'll suck your balls empty, pay for meals, clean your apartment, come over and make you Kimchi Jigae, and you'll never want to go back to western chicks.

So yeah, that's my first post. If you have any questions about Korea send them my way. I put up good numbers there and would consider myself an expert in gaming them. I'm living in Bangkok now, so if you have any questions about this place (heaven on earth! and not just for asiaphiles) send them my way too. Later

Sounds like,in S. Korea, you made the best of a difficult situation, which is what a traveler often has to do. Though with so many countries and women available, I'm not so sure the "stick it out" and adapt kind of advice is the best. With experience, after about a month, its pretty easy to tell if a place is worth it for the long haul. For example, I've been in Ecuador for a while now for business reasons and have adapted just like you did in S. Korea. However, whenever i get the opportunity i head back to Colombia or Brazil. Life is too short for making a good thing out of someting mediocre.