If the guy is otherwise cool but just ugly would you still hang out with him? Do you think an ugly wingman would hurt your chances of getting laid?. I remember a friend of mine back in the day pretty much stopped hanging out with me cuz as he put it "I need someone with some pull". How common is this, and have you been guilty of it.
Be honest. Would you game with an ugly wingman?
Of course I would. Gaming alongside an uglier guy would make me look more attractive by comparison, so it could possibly help. But it doesn't matter much either way.
Now a wingman who has no sense of style or zero social calibration - that could be damaging.
Now a wingman who has no sense of style or zero social calibration - that could be damaging.
Absolutely yes.
An ‘ugly’ wingman who has game will be teaching you one of the most important lessons in your life.
That lesson is that male attractiveness is mostly based on personality and only to a smaller degree on looks.
An ‘ugly’ wingman who has game will be teaching you one of the most important lessons in your life.
That lesson is that male attractiveness is mostly based on personality and only to a smaller degree on looks.
Yes.
As Ouroboros points out though, "ugliness" for men tends to also come with a lack of hygiene, terrible style, and most often, a lack of social calibration. I've met guys who either are terrified to talk to women at all, or will ruin a perfectly flowing conversation by being too drunk/aggressive and scaring the women away.
If a guy doesn't have any of those issues and isn't facially attractive, that's all good.
As Ouroboros points out though, "ugliness" for men tends to also come with a lack of hygiene, terrible style, and most often, a lack of social calibration. I've met guys who either are terrified to talk to women at all, or will ruin a perfectly flowing conversation by being too drunk/aggressive and scaring the women away.
If a guy doesn't have any of those issues and isn't facially attractive, that's all good.
Why not ?
I'd go out with a guy who has game and ugly rather than handsome guy with zero game.
At least, the ugly guy with game will comment on your game and give you feedback.
I'd go out with a guy who has game and ugly rather than handsome guy with zero game.
At least, the ugly guy with game will comment on your game and give you feedback.
I misread this as "would you game an ugly woman".
There are so many variables (venue, your personal qualities, clothing, diet, time of day etc.) that you cannot possibly generalize about such a topic in advance. The only advice is to experiment with the wingman and then come back here to share the lessons you learned (and your mistakes) so that others might be inspired and try out an idea that worked for you. Put him infield and see how he does. Try out different wingmen vs going solo. Try giving the wingman different instructions, like to speak more, less, to speak on different topics, etc. Try different venues (bar vs. supermarket vs. park etc.) and change up your facial hair, style, anything that you and your co-conspirators can think of that might tap into an heretofore untapped opportunity. Girls are hypergamous, which means that all you have to do is appear to her to have relatively higher social status than she does, and she'll want sex. There are so many parameters that could play into her evaluation of your status, and no two girls are exactly alike. If you are not getting regularly rejected (and learning to handle it internally) then you need to hit on more hotter girls and experiment with different tactics. The object of Game is to discover your own unique perfect recipe for getting regularly laid by the highest quality girls you possibly can.
I am that ugly wingman sometimes ![[Image: lol.gif]](https://rooshvforum.network/images/smilies/new/lol.gif)
I still pull though. But seriously, when it comes to wingman, you need a solid bro who will hype you up and does well in social interactions, and most importantly understands game and brocode = will never cockblock you.
I still pull though. But seriously, when it comes to wingman, you need a solid bro who will hype you up and does well in social interactions, and most importantly understands game and brocode = will never cockblock you.
From a purely utilitarian point of view, and disregarding morals, a less attractive wingman than yourself is an advantage. I'll up the stakes by claiming the uglier is your wingman, the better - for you. It isn't my hypothesis, for it is a well established cognitive bias, and in this case, a variation of the contrast effect.
In short, the uglier your friend, the more attractive, due to contrast, you will be next to him (or them). I'll leave to the reader the moral dilemma if one should befriend people based on their physical attractiveness or lack thereof.
In short, the uglier your friend, the more attractive, due to contrast, you will be next to him (or them). I'll leave to the reader the moral dilemma if one should befriend people based on their physical attractiveness or lack thereof.
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Lol. My ugly wingmen back in the day had the most game. The better looking dudes can just show up and get pussy. We uggies actually had to actually work on our social skills.
All i need in a wingman is inside jokes. Tons of them.
I go out with guys much better looking than me and much worse. I do the same amount of damage either way.
I go out with guys much better looking than me and much worse. I do the same amount of damage either way.
Its better to spar with someone of better ability than you. What are you gonna learn off someone who can't dress for shit? Looks matter.
Contrary to popular opinion I do not game with ugly guys. It's shooting yourself in the foot.
I'll give you an example from yesterday. Let's say I see 2 hot mamacitas chatting between themselves at the bar. I go in an effortlessly start to game the two, Ive piqued their interest but I can't isolate them cause the second girl wants nothing to do with my average looking friend. Had to settle for both their numbers.
I believe if I had had an equally or better good looking wing we could've split up the pair and banged. Sure I got both their numbers, maybe him being ugly made me look better by contrast. But I still prefer a shot at the bang than 2 leads.
Having an ugly wing can also lead to fights between the set for your attention. One will usually cock block the other. The wings job is to help you isolate your target. It's much harder for an ugly wing to distract a grenade than it is for a Chad.
Moral of the story, game with good looking wings be it men or women.
-Balls
I'll give you an example from yesterday. Let's say I see 2 hot mamacitas chatting between themselves at the bar. I go in an effortlessly start to game the two, Ive piqued their interest but I can't isolate them cause the second girl wants nothing to do with my average looking friend. Had to settle for both their numbers.
I believe if I had had an equally or better good looking wing we could've split up the pair and banged. Sure I got both their numbers, maybe him being ugly made me look better by contrast. But I still prefer a shot at the bang than 2 leads.
Having an ugly wing can also lead to fights between the set for your attention. One will usually cock block the other. The wings job is to help you isolate your target. It's much harder for an ugly wing to distract a grenade than it is for a Chad.
Moral of the story, game with good looking wings be it men or women.
-Balls
Quote: (03-29-2019 06:21 PM)Ouroboros Wrote:
Of course I would. Gaming alongside an uglier guy would make me look more attractive by comparison
This is my thinking too.
In fact, i'd say my ideal wingman would be a sociable, fun yet not very good looking dude.
It's when I go out with my semi-boring, male model friend where I struggle the most!! Despite being kinda boring eith zero 'game' girls are opening him touching him, flirting with him and throwing their pu$$y at him, I look hideous in comparison, and I struggle to get my mojo too since he's content to never open a girl (since they open him) and just play fruit machines and stuff lol. It's a real uphill battle!
Why not? I had a few friends back in college that weren't on my level: they didn't put too much effort into their style, didn't care too much about fitness, didn't have high social calibration/social skills but they were fun guys to hang out with on occasion. Whenever I went out with them I was the coolest guy in the group. It was always a good time because I didn't care about impressing them, and since I was in a good vibe my night game was on point. They weren't really my "wingmen," though, I would usually leave the group and approach girls by myself. Some of these guys had to literally get black out drunk just to talk to a girl, and it was pretty embarrassing to behold.
More recently I would go night gaming with my buddy who is a jacked personal trainer and has also done a little bit of modeling/ TV. In terms of raw physical appearance he has me beat but I seemed to pull more efficiently in the field because he was an emotional roller coaster with women and had trouble not caring. I will say he pulled some smokes through dating apps though
More recently I would go night gaming with my buddy who is a jacked personal trainer and has also done a little bit of modeling/ TV. In terms of raw physical appearance he has me beat but I seemed to pull more efficiently in the field because he was an emotional roller coaster with women and had trouble not caring. I will say he pulled some smokes through dating apps though
I NEVER game with a wingman that is better looking than me! I did this for years when I was young and would get the scraps if I was lucky. If I went out with a girl that was very into me and for some reason I meet up with my more attractive friends, I would go home with dry balls while one of my alpha friends would be the one to take her home. Nothing is more painful when this happens!!!
When I went out with less attractive people, guess who was on the top of the list for getting laid! Whenever I wanted to get laid, I would go out ONLY with my less attractive friends or solo.
When I went out with less attractive people, guess who was on the top of the list for getting laid! Whenever I wanted to get laid, I would go out ONLY with my less attractive friends or solo.
Ça dépend.
* Ugly but well calibrated and can spit good game: definitely
* Ugly but friendly towards me yet bit shy to the girls: sure why not, makes me look good
* Ugly and/or uncalibrated/acts extravagant/insecure/even a little autistic: nope
* Ugly with neckbeard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Na-DmkUE...lPo-cY7zpj
* Ugly but well calibrated and can spit good game: definitely
* Ugly but friendly towards me yet bit shy to the girls: sure why not, makes me look good
* Ugly and/or uncalibrated/acts extravagant/insecure/even a little autistic: nope
* Ugly with neckbeard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Na-DmkUE...lPo-cY7zpj
“Our great danger is not that we aim too high and fail, but that we aim too low and succeed.” ― Rollo Tomassi
Someone has to be the "ugly" wingman in a pair
Yes, it doesn't really hurt, I took every social interaction as a learning lesson.
"Don't let yourself get attached to anything you are not willing to walk out on in 30 seconds flat if you feel the heat around the corner."
- Heat
"That's the difference between you and me. You wanna lose small, I wanna win big."
Really surprised by most of the answers here. In my experience it seems most guys prefer to hang out with good looking guys because they will get lots of attention from girls and if your winging him you might catch some of the overflow. I have observed this in real life and back in my younger days when I had a crew, two of which were legit chads they would tell me the only reason i got girls was because of them. Which was 100% true. They would even kick guys out from our crew because they "had no play" i.e. girls didnt like them. I wasnt kicked out because i was related to one of the chads.
Also when your wing looks good you can go upto a set of girls and be confident your wing could get some play, if hes ugly you might get blown out simply because they dont want to deal with your friend. I experienced this first hand when I found my friend at the club talking to two girls, the girls took one look at me and ran off. He even said "they liked me but didnt like you". Having a good looking wing even elevates your status and social proof, the girls will think there must be something special about you if your cool enough to be hanging out with a good looking guy, even if your ugly or average.
Also when your wing looks good you can go upto a set of girls and be confident your wing could get some play, if hes ugly you might get blown out simply because they dont want to deal with your friend. I experienced this first hand when I found my friend at the club talking to two girls, the girls took one look at me and ran off. He even said "they liked me but didnt like you". Having a good looking wing even elevates your status and social proof, the girls will think there must be something special about you if your cool enough to be hanging out with a good looking guy, even if your ugly or average.
Ugly yes, short no.
Ideally, you don't want your wingman to be significantly above you nor significantly below you.
This way you avoid multiple hot women that won't want to choose your way ugly wingman (or be entertained by him), and you also avoid girls being only interested in your wingman (who you are nowhere near as good looking as).
However, if I had a choice between a good looking guy with horrible game and a plain/not that great looking guy with awesome game, I'd take the 2nd every time.
I've found that the best wingmen I have are always my closest friends. The friends I tend to keep closest to me are those with business success, athletic/in shape (few are real short), have social savvy/outgoing, who lead interesting lives, and who have game.
Many of them are better than me in one way, but not in all ways. So for example, one of my friends is similar looking, about equally as successful, slightly better game, but not quite as good a shape as I am.
Another friend is wildly more successful, decent game, better looking/more in shape, but is now settled down and doesn't socialize anywhere near as much.
Another friend is significantly taller, definitely more successful, in better shape, has decent game, but is not facially as good looking. He's a really good wing being tall, a good general talker, and not that aggressive so we compliment each other well.
With each of these guys and ESPECIALLY if there are 3 of us, I know I have a really solid chance of knocking one out of the park or at least hitting a couple doubles while they knock one out of the park. We've known each other for long enough, we're similar in a lot of ways, so we just have a DAMN great time around each other all the time. There's no 1 guy that completely dominates the group (really any of us could but none need to), so it's mostly up to the girls to choose what personality they like best.
When we're out we are just laughing, smiling, and shooting the shit with ourselves and others around us. Almost any venue locally we run into multiple people one or many of us know, and in a non-local venue people assume we're locals or are intrigued by our group and want to know what we're about.
The latest example I can think of is that we went on a guys trip and after spending all day at strenuous outdoor activities my one buddy and another guy walked over to a local beerfest where they saw some cute girls and chatted them up. The girls invited them to a local show they were performing in. I later flirted with them a little and walked to meet up with my buddies where they told me about this. Later when a much bigger group went to the show the girls came out afterwards and were all, "you guys came!" all excited. We could've easily gotten them to join us with some friends afterwards.
This way you avoid multiple hot women that won't want to choose your way ugly wingman (or be entertained by him), and you also avoid girls being only interested in your wingman (who you are nowhere near as good looking as).
However, if I had a choice between a good looking guy with horrible game and a plain/not that great looking guy with awesome game, I'd take the 2nd every time.
I've found that the best wingmen I have are always my closest friends. The friends I tend to keep closest to me are those with business success, athletic/in shape (few are real short), have social savvy/outgoing, who lead interesting lives, and who have game.
Many of them are better than me in one way, but not in all ways. So for example, one of my friends is similar looking, about equally as successful, slightly better game, but not quite as good a shape as I am.
Another friend is wildly more successful, decent game, better looking/more in shape, but is now settled down and doesn't socialize anywhere near as much.
Another friend is significantly taller, definitely more successful, in better shape, has decent game, but is not facially as good looking. He's a really good wing being tall, a good general talker, and not that aggressive so we compliment each other well.
With each of these guys and ESPECIALLY if there are 3 of us, I know I have a really solid chance of knocking one out of the park or at least hitting a couple doubles while they knock one out of the park. We've known each other for long enough, we're similar in a lot of ways, so we just have a DAMN great time around each other all the time. There's no 1 guy that completely dominates the group (really any of us could but none need to), so it's mostly up to the girls to choose what personality they like best.
When we're out we are just laughing, smiling, and shooting the shit with ourselves and others around us. Almost any venue locally we run into multiple people one or many of us know, and in a non-local venue people assume we're locals or are intrigued by our group and want to know what we're about.
The latest example I can think of is that we went on a guys trip and after spending all day at strenuous outdoor activities my one buddy and another guy walked over to a local beerfest where they saw some cute girls and chatted them up. The girls invited them to a local show they were performing in. I later flirted with them a little and walked to meet up with my buddies where they told me about this. Later when a much bigger group went to the show the girls came out afterwards and were all, "you guys came!" all excited. We could've easily gotten them to join us with some friends afterwards.
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I've winged with all types of guys and I do not consider looks to be the most important factor. A guy's personality has a lot more weight. A guy with a great personality who knows how to lead and make shit happen in interactions could look like a fat Gollum for all I care.
When I started going out specifically to learn game I would go out with a chubby guy who was not very attractive as far as looks go, maybe a 4-5, but he was diligent about going out all the time to get better with girls. He had no ego and just focused on practicing the shit he was learning. He was the most committed guy I've seen so far. Eventually, he started blowing me out and getting more attention from girls. I saw him several months after taking a break and he was getting laid and was like a different person. You see, his behavior became more attractive and his looks had nothing to do with it. He was more grounded and had more game.
On the other hand, I've winged with guys who are extremely attractive (model, actor types) and had mixed experiences. I used to go out with a tall Brazilian soccer player who was the ideal in looks and girls wouldn't even notice me even though I am pretty cute and charming. All he had to do is come up to a girl and look at her and she would melt. Another attractive guy I used to go out with was a French guy who was like 6'4, handsome, stylish and had a French accent (American Bitches love French guys) but he was the fucking shit -- funny, down to earth, and I never felt like he was superior to me. We just fucking went out and had a blast all the time.
I believe that, at the end of the day, a man should not focus on his looks. That shit is for women. When a woman tests you, she is testing for behavior and insecurities (sometimes about your looks). They are not specifically looking for pretty guys. They are looking for confident men. If you are worried about your looks too much you are a bitch.
When I started going out specifically to learn game I would go out with a chubby guy who was not very attractive as far as looks go, maybe a 4-5, but he was diligent about going out all the time to get better with girls. He had no ego and just focused on practicing the shit he was learning. He was the most committed guy I've seen so far. Eventually, he started blowing me out and getting more attention from girls. I saw him several months after taking a break and he was getting laid and was like a different person. You see, his behavior became more attractive and his looks had nothing to do with it. He was more grounded and had more game.
On the other hand, I've winged with guys who are extremely attractive (model, actor types) and had mixed experiences. I used to go out with a tall Brazilian soccer player who was the ideal in looks and girls wouldn't even notice me even though I am pretty cute and charming. All he had to do is come up to a girl and look at her and she would melt. Another attractive guy I used to go out with was a French guy who was like 6'4, handsome, stylish and had a French accent (American Bitches love French guys) but he was the fucking shit -- funny, down to earth, and I never felt like he was superior to me. We just fucking went out and had a blast all the time.
I believe that, at the end of the day, a man should not focus on his looks. That shit is for women. When a woman tests you, she is testing for behavior and insecurities (sometimes about your looks). They are not specifically looking for pretty guys. They are looking for confident men. If you are worried about your looks too much you are a bitch.
Absolutely. My best friend and former wing is, for lack of a better term, ugly as fuck. His game is so tight, however, it was like getting a graduate level course every time we went out. We would be out in clubs and bars and women would open me based on looks, immediately get turned off based on whatever idiocy came out of my mouth, and my buddy was right there to swoop in. Watching him work was awe inspiring.
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