[the.king]

My father has a gambling addiction.

He is married to my mother for over 30 years now. My mom is employed and earns a lot of money, whereas my father is unemployed for 6+ years. He is 63 and will be a pensioner soon.

He has a very substantial amount of money in gambling losses and debt (!) which will be covered via loans, basically from my mother (!). He claims he will pay this money back. I know it sounds like a soap opera story, but unfortunately its not.

How do I ensure he doesn't fall into gambling debt (credit) again?

- He says he's not playing again, but he said so in the past before.

- He declines to start seeing a psychologist, thinks he's got it under control and doesn't have a problem. He is embarrassed to talk about this and his ego kicks in and doesn't want to admit it.

- He lashed out at my mom because she told me of his debts.

- He doesn't accept he has a problem, and he told me he is never playing again, and that's it. He told me he was contemplating suicide (!!) last week. I told him his debt is too little to think of shit like that.

What can I do to prevent my father from gambling in the future, especially on credit (=money he doesn't have) ? Unfortunately where I live I cannot just get him banned. Its largely unregulated and credit is given to him by various bookmakers on a 'good-faith' basis (they know he always goes back end of month and pays his debt).

He is adamant that he doesn't need help, he will never play again, and he does not accept visiting a psychologist or me going with him to the betting shop to talk to the guys there. He claims its his money and he will spend it as he pleases.

[realologist]

There is nothing you can do really. Tell your mom to quit enabling his gambling by bailing him out with loans. Right now he isn't feeling any consequences of his gambling other than the occasional chew out but that's much less painful than the rush he ultimately gets from gambling. It sounds like he has no real desire to quit. If he wants to quit and starts taking the steps even just 1 then support him.

[RatInTheWoods]

This is why the legal joint ownership of depts is a fucking scam, unethical and a rort.

My mates wife racked up huge bills gambling (she doesn't work and was "bored" all day with nothing to do)

He has to pay all the loans in her name because they are married.

Her body, her choice, his money, her choice.....

[Captain Gh]

Unfortunately... you'll both have to cut him loose! I know it's hard since we're talking about family here... but trying to help an addict who doesn't want it is a lose lose proposition! I went through something similar recently when my "big homie" refused to give me a loan. Luckily for me, it didn't affect me much since I was already doing the work to get myself out of my hole! If you do cut him off... hopefully it'll be the spark to maybe help him change!

[[email protected]]

Gambling is symptom that comes from inner feelings of feeling like a "loser." If this isn't addressed, a man will continue to engage in gambling activity. Maybe reassuring your father that you and your mother respect him and appreciate what he's done for you might go a long way, psychologically.

Involve yourself in his activities. Agree with him that it's his money and decisions but as his son you want him to be more successful so he can spot you dinner sometime. Direct him to less risky more profitable ventures is the way to go. Show him on paper that credit cards mean he has to get better than a 20% return at least and not sustainable. Explain that everything in life is gambling but horses and poker games are crap shoots. Get him into stocks, commercial property ownership, buying and holding Bitcoin. Keep him busy with a day job. Tell him to use his own play money or yours so you can keep track of it. Do not allow him to use a credit card because it's money plus 20% interest.

Get people that previously had gambling problems that are now successful people to have a conversation date with him.

Explain to him that everyone is gambling but they are doing it smarter, more effectively. That's to say that everyone is using the bank to borrow enormous sums of money to make more money but they only pay small interest and make a lot more money than what he makes playing cards (or whatever).

Involve yourself in your dad's life. If he took care of you, maybe you owe it to him. Tell him you'll help him pay his debts but in exchange he has to work with you.

A psychologist sounds like a waste of money and time. If it was possible I'd try to find a hypnotist, but it only works if he really wants to quit.

[the.king]

Thank you very much for your responses.

(02-28-2019 05:18 PM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  

My mates wife racked up huge bills gambling (she doesn't work and was "bored" all day with nothing to do)

This is what my father says too (he is also unemployed with nothing to do all day) and to be fair there is an element of truth to this. I studied addiction a lot (I used to smoke, then quit, currently on no-fap since 10 Jan etc). Whenever I have free time I'm more likely to think about fapping.

(03-01-2019 02:40 AM)[email protected] Wrote:  

Direct him to less risky more profitable ventures is the way to go.

Get him into stocks, commercial property ownership, buying and holding Bitcoin.

Explain to him that everyone is gambling but they are doing it smarter, more effectively. That's to say that everyone is using the bank to borrow enormous sums of money to make more money but they only pay small interest and make a lot more money than what he makes playing cards (or whatever).

I think this is the best actionable advice, and I will pursue this. Your post was very helpful to my situation. He needs to fill up his time with something positive/productive. I will try to get him to invest €5-10k in the stock market or something like that, to try and make up for his gambling losses that way.

Also I decided I'm going to put a GPS tracker on his car, to make sure I can see if he still goes to the bookmaker's.

(02-28-2019 05:38 PM)Captain Gh Wrote:  

Unfortunately... you'll both have to cut him loose!

If you do cut him off... hopefully it'll be the spark to maybe help him change!

Thank you for your advice, but I disagree. My father is almost 63, I don' think people change in this age. I have a younger brother who advised my mom she should get a divorce. I think my brother is a certified gamma.

I'm a big advocate of ruthlessly cutting toxic people out of your life, but I think my father counts as a valid exception. Not being a white knight or anything, I just think in some situations you need to stick for your own even if it seems illogical. Its too retarded for me to see him suffer over some compulsive evolutionary behaviour, which he can fix with a simple paradigm shift.

Still not sure why people gamble to be honest. I mean you know the odds are stacked against you, and in the long term you are MATHEMATICALLY CERTAIN to lose. What kind of fucked up madness is this? I play loads of poker myself (but I make profits, not losses!) and love calculating probabilities. How someone can seriously lose big money in a game like roulette or blackjack is beyond me. I mean you can literally see the payout the casino gives is less than the actual probability of the outcome! Its just insane.

[big poppa]

Anyone saying to simply cut your dad loose because he has an addiction is really quite sad. I honestly feel sorry for someone who thinks that way. Probably why our society is so degenerated - just cut off the person who gave you life because he has an inconvenient problem and your life will be easier without it.


The sad thing is there's not much you can do. Support him as best you can in every way except financially. I'm sure he would do the same for you. Tell your mother to keep her finances as safe as possible. Let your old man blow his pension but don't let him send your mother into homelessness.

Anyone thinking that abandoning him will help him break his addiction really doesn't have much idea.

[joecolombia]

I don´t know if you have this legal figure in the US, but in Colombia people with gambling addictions, drug issues and mental problems can be legally disabled to acquire new loans, withdraw money and any other legal actions that may harm the person or its family. If he does something reckless like picking up a mortage for your house or something like that, it could be removed.

In Colombia that´s called an interdiction. Ask your local lawyer.

Hope he gets better. An intervention would help him revaluate his life choices.

[Horus]

This is some advice from Lizard of Oz regarding how to face a family member with a drinking problem. I think it may be relevant to your situation.

thread-30625...pid1931804

Quote:

This is a very tough situation to deal with. True drunks can remain set in their ways for years no matter the cost, and with women it's even worse. In most cases there is little anyone can do -- the impetus to change must come from the drunk himself (or herself) or be forced on them by circumstance.

The best you can do is to be completely honest and forthright with your sister. Given the opportunity, tell her that she is, in your view, an alcoholic; that her behavior is self-destructive and damaging to her son; and that nothing will change for the better until she stops drinking. Do not accept any of her excuses or even countenance them at all -- they should always be dismissed out of hand. Nothing in the world is cheaper, more plentiful, or more worthless than the ever-ready excuses of a drunk. Try to really focusher one day when the situation is right by skipping a beat to a beat and a half in a conversation, then look her in the eye and tell her what the reality is in the plainest possible terms, without any particular exaggeration but also without mincing any words.

Even if you do this, realize that unless you are very lucky it is unlikely to have any immediate effect; the most likely outcome is that your sister persists in her ways for years to come, and your honesty may only alienate her from you. But if you remain completely forthright and consistent in your attitude and -- again, very importantly -- never accept her excuses even for a moment, this may have some cumulative effect over time; and maybe a day will come when she gives up and gives in. If that ever happens, your sustained record of no-nonsense truth telling will be useful because she will know she can place her trust in you. Maybe then you can help guide her out of her misery.

In short: do what you can -- and all you can do is to always be ready to tell her the truth and dismiss her excuses. But do not expect anything to change anytime soon

[Captain Gh]

(03-01-2019 04:27 AM)the.king Wrote:  

Thank you very much for your responses.

(02-28-2019 05:18 PM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  

My mates wife racked up huge bills gambling (she doesn't work and was "bored" all day with nothing to do)

This is what my father says too (he is also unemployed with nothing to do all day) and to be fair there is an element of truth to this. I studied addiction a lot (I used to smoke, then quit, currently on no-fap since 10 Jan etc). Whenever I have free time I'm more likely to think about fapping.

(03-01-2019 02:40 AM)[email protected] Wrote:  

Direct him to less risky more profitable ventures is the way to go.

Get him into stocks, commercial property ownership, buying and holding Bitcoin.

Explain to him that everyone is gambling but they are doing it smarter, more effectively. That's to say that everyone is using the bank to borrow enormous sums of money to make more money but they only pay small interest and make a lot more money than what he makes playing cards (or whatever).

I think this is the best actionable advice, and I will pursue this. Your post was very helpful to my situation. He needs to fill up his time with something positive/productive. I will try to get him to invest €5-10k in the stock market or something like that, to try and make up for his gambling losses that way.

Also I decided I'm going to put a GPS tracker on his car, to make sure I can see if he still goes to the bookmaker's.

(02-28-2019 05:38 PM)Captain Gh Wrote:  

Unfortunately... you'll both have to cut him loose!

If you do cut him off... hopefully it'll be the spark to maybe help him change!

Thank you for your advice, but I disagree. My father is almost 63, I don' think people change in this age. I have a younger brother who advised my mom she should get a divorce. I think my brother is a certified gamma.

I'm a big advocate of ruthlessly cutting toxic people out of your life, but I think my father counts as a valid exception. Not being a white knight or anything, I just think in some situations you need to stick for your own even if it seems illogical. Its too retarded for me to see him suffer over some compulsive evolutionary behaviour, which he can fix with a simple paradigm shift.

Still not sure why people gamble to be honest. I mean you know the odds are stacked against you, and in the long term you are MATHEMATICALLY CERTAIN to lose. What kind of fucked up madness is this? I play loads of poker myself (but I make profits, not losses!) and love calculating probabilities. How someone can seriously lose big money in a game like roulette or blackjack is beyond me. I mean you can literally see the payout the casino gives is less than the actual probability of the outcome! Its just insane.

Hey I respect your opinion at the end of the day so it's cool! Even if he's your father... by somehow supporting his behavior... you'll most likely end up feeling more Anger or Anxiety, which means that his behavior will lower YOUR Well Being and/or confidence!

It's a Win for him, albeit for a short period, and an immediate loss for you! It's a Loose-Loose tradeoff! The only circumstances in which I'd be willing to accept this terrible situation was if the person in question was fully committed to accepting professional help... which you mentioned he refused!