[AceP]

Hey brothers,

So I decide to make this thread because I've decided after reading all of the older posts there's no specific thread on the case of Belarus vs Ukraine specifically, for the longer term and which is better overall in the long run.

I am on my early 20s and looking to do a 3-4 years Bachelor's Degree in Russian Language And Culture. Asian-American guy, skinny, on the shorter side (less than 5'9 -- so prefers shorter girls) but I know how to roll with stylish more expensive fashion. I can speak perfect English but only very-very basic Russian (not conversational yet) and plan to master that over the course of a few years. Game-wise I am comfortable with doing online game, indirect day game and bar hopping as well (not much of a dancer tho - altho I can play the guitar music scene).

So for any bros here whose been to Minsk, Belarus or Kiev/Lviv, Ukraine (or both). I would love to hear your inputs. If you've been to Moscow, Russian I would also love to hear how you would compare Belarus/Ukraine women with Russians. My personal preference is pale, blonde. The more pale, blonde, blue they are the better. Face matters more for me than body, but good curves and chest with be great too. And I mostly aim the target the younger girls 18-24.

***

So I'll start the comparison with the points that I know, please do correct me if you think otherwise:

Belarus -VS- Ukraine
1. More Brunette - More Blondes
2. Taller Girls - Shorter Girls
3. Less Competition - More Competition (much harder VISAs - Ukraine seem to be over-hyped too)
3b. More Exotic Factor - Less Exotic Factor (for the Asian Korean look specifically - I don't think a lot of East Asians will choose to study at the FSU at the first place over 1st world countries)
4. Even more conservative - conservative
5. Cheaper than Ukraine - cheaper than Russia
6. Not in EU/more isolated (like Russia) - Will be integrated with EU/Schegen eventually
7. Population: Minsk 2 Million - Kiev 3 Million

What I Do NOT Yet Know
1. Does Belarus raw beauty (face) really can compete with Ukrainian's beauty on average? Or Ukrainian's average is still higher.
2. Are Belarus girls more curvy (body) than Ukrainians? I know Roosh wrote an article about Polish girls having much more better non-petite bodies. Is there significant differences between Belarus and Ukrainian women?
3. I heard the younger generation college-educated girls can speak decent English. Are both countries equally good/bad at their English? Or one is better than the other.
4. I heard the night game scene for Belarus: only the high end girls can afford it. It is a big difference compared to Ukraine?
5. How about the gold-digger vibe? I heard you have to filter out really hard in Ukraine. Is this also or not the same case for Belarus?
These are just some of the unanswered questions I can think off at the moment.

Now judging from those points: It shows that point 1,2,4,6,7 is for Ukraine and 3, 3b the only significant point for Belarus. What would be your input for me bros for Belarus women vs Ukraine women?

And if YOU where to choose your next 3-4 years to settle down; between these choices: Would you choose Belarus or Ukraine? Which city?

[BajaBlues]

Just returned from Minsk. Had blast on my 5 day pass.

[brat]

Belarus if you really want to learn russian bouth countries are pretty much similar in the other aspects are overrun by middle easters I think maybe there is more Asians in Belarus.

[nola]

In Belarus you will need a solid command of Russian or it's pointless for girls. And for Ukraine, other than Kiev and to some extent Odessa I think without a good command of Russian Ukraine is pointless. If you're in the top 5% in the looks department that might buffer off not having language skills but I simply do not see a lot of non-russian speaking foreigners doing well in Ukraine or Belarus. It's not impossible but it's just not a common occurrence.

In Ukraine I frequently run into defeated foreigners that will ask me about p4p or where to find more English speaking girls.

If you're really planning to stay as long as you say you are there are some very cheap intense 11 month language schools that will elevate your chances drastically. Belarus is a better country to learn Russian than Ukraine. I would think Minsk would get very boring though after a few months.

I settled in Kharkov Ukraine which a lot of guys on here think is a pretty boring place with too many middle easterners but I don't really feel the effect, it's no were near as intense in regards to sex tourism as Odessa or Kiev. It's a college city, very cheap, easy to navigate with a lot of solid talent. It also gets very little western tourism. Also I see very little competition from local men and I don't consider middle eastern sex tourist competition either.

Also as far as gold diggers. If you gunning for top talent without the language down and don't have your shit together it's one likely you'll fail. And even if she is half interested in you she is going to look for something else to extract from you to justify her spending time with you. Unfortunately that usually comes in the form of material objects and money. Otherwise what's the point for her to date you.? You can't understand each other and your life and or appearance or both is a fucking mess. There are high value local men that speak her language, know her culture, take care of themselves and have resources. There are at least enough of these types of men that the top 10% of girls will not have a problem landing one.

[Tintin]

Berlaus is alright, the girls are less hot than Ukraine, but more so than Poland. I found it boring though, not many restaurants/cafes, and nightlife only at weekends. If you were gonna spend more than 5 days there you would need something to do.

Ukraine is not as good as it was, but still good for the top guys who have experience in the country.

Kharkov has decent talent, but there is not a huge difference compared to Kiev. It's easier to get laid in Kiev than Kharkov, and Kiev is generally more pleasant with places like gidropark and podol, although nightlife sucks in both cities.

I've been to some smaller cities in Ukraine which are much better than Kharkov, nightlife almost every night and still the WGF

[AceP]

(05-22-2018 04:00 AM)nola Wrote:  

And for Ukraine, other than Kiev and to some extent Odessa I think without a good command of Russian Ukraine is pointless.

If you're really planning to stay as long as you say you are there are some very cheap intense 11 month language schools that will elevate your chances drastically. Belarus is a better country to learn Russian than Ukraine. I would think Minsk would get very boring though after a few months.

I settled in Kharkov Ukraine which a lot of guys on here think is a pretty boring place with too many middle easterners but I don't really feel the effect, it's no were near as intense in regards to sex tourism as Odessa or Kiev. It's a college city, very cheap, easy to navigate with a lot of solid talent. It also gets very little western tourism. Also I see very little competition from local men and I don't consider middle eastern sex tourist competition either.

There are high value local men that speak her language, know her culture, take care of themselves and have resources. There are at least enough of these types of men that the top 10% of girls will not have a problem landing one.

Great posts everyone. I really appreciate the different views.

Interesting.. So Kiev is the only best option for a really non-conversational Russia speaker. Minsk is better for studying Russian and Krakow seems to be the best value for the long-term.

I would like to ask about the height differences tho, is there a noticeable height differences between Belarus and Ukrainian girls? It might put me off if Belarus girls are constantly producing tall models brunettes lol.

I also would like input if anyone has been to Lviv at Eastern Ukraine before, how will it compare to Kiev. Hopeful if I hang out around the Universities the college girls should have some-sort of command of the English language.

As in for the top-tier girls: I think judging from what everyone's saying, the top-tiers HBs is higher in Ukraine than Belarus. If you have a couple years to decrypt your way to the top-tier circles Ukraine seems to be the better choice.

[nola]

(05-22-2018 11:47 AM)AceP Wrote:  

(05-22-2018 04:00 AM)nola Wrote:  

And for Ukraine, other than Kiev and to some extent Odessa I think without a good command of Russian Ukraine is pointless.

If you're really planning to stay as long as you say you are there are some very cheap intense 11 month language schools that will elevate your chances drastically. Belarus is a better country to learn Russian than Ukraine. I would think Minsk would get very boring though after a few months.

I settled in Kharkov Ukraine which a lot of guys on here think is a pretty boring place with too many middle easterners but I don't really feel the effect, it's no were near as intense in regards to sex tourism as Odessa or Kiev. It's a college city, very cheap, easy to navigate with a lot of solid talent. It also gets very little western tourism. Also I see very little competition from local men and I don't consider middle eastern sex tourist competition either.

There are high value local men that speak her language, know her culture, take care of themselves and have resources. There are at least enough of these types of men that the top 10% of girls will not have a problem landing one.

Great posts everyone. I really appreciate the different views.

Interesting.. So Kiev is the only best option for a really non-conversational Russia speaker. Minsk is better for studying Russian and Krakow seems to be the best value for the long-term.

I would like to ask about the height differences tho, is there a noticeable height differences between Belarus and Ukrainian girls? It might put me off if Belarus girls are constantly producing tall models brunettes lol.

I also would like input if anyone has been to Lviv at Eastern Ukraine before, how will it compare to Kiev. Hopeful if I hang out around the Universities the college girls should have some-sort of command of the English language.

Krakow is in Poland.

Kharkov - Russian/Kharkiv - Ukrainian

Lvov - Russian/Lviv - Ukrainian

ect...

I saw no height differences between Ukraine and Belarus. I'm also not autistic so I would not notice such things anyway. Being just a hair or two under 6 feet most EE girls in heels are taller than me. Not that this matters (unless you're autistic)

When a girl is vertical those heels should point to the ceiling or wall (not the floor.)

Lviv is in Western not Eastern Ukraine. It's a decent place to live and work. Girls tend to look more Polish there as Lviv was a Polish city until after WWII ended in which they joined the Soviet Union.

English language is a struggle for all non Russian speakers in Ukraine.

Your questions tell me you're very inexperienced in EE which is okay, everyone starts somewhere.

Unless you're going to dedicate yourself to gaining Russian language skills Ukraine or Belarus are not good options.

Also West Ukraine is a terrible place to learn Russian because of the conflict. Lviv especially is a hot bed for Ukrainian Nationalist thus they'll be wanting to speak Ukrainian with you.

If you are very hell bent on going to Ukraine or Belarus long-term... okay... Go enroll in a Russian language immersion program somewhere. In Ukraine this should be in Kyiv or in an Eastern City.

Otherwise you're going to be spinning your wheels in Ukraine and even more so in Belarus. I can't count on my hands and toes how many people I've met moving over here that thought they could hack through it without the language and only to leave after a few months.

You said you have a degree in Russian Studies so you obviously have an interest in the culture. Why not just learn the language.?

[Henny]

Being short and not knowing the language is not good in Ukraine or Belarus, even the poorest and fattest local guys will outperform you. I would recommend the 'stan countries where it's more socially acceptable to be a vertically challenged gentleman.

Unless of course, you have money then anything's possible

[AceP]

Ah right, forgive me for misreading/miswriting some of the names.
Most of my travels have only been around Asia and North Americas so I'm still trying to get used to the European names. Krakow and Kharkov was not obvious for me until I've googled it. (Doesn't help that Kiev is sometimes pronounced Kyiv and Lviv is sometimes pronounced Lvov -- the confusion)

Yes, to answer your questions, I have committed myself for the next 3-4 years into studying the Russian Language until I can master it.

Good info on the Lviv heads up. Not sure if learning Polish or Ukrainian is a good idea when you can just learn the more widescreen motherland language and able to use it on other ex-soviet countries. Also good to know that there is no significant difference between the height of the average Belarus and Ukrainians. Kharkov sounds like a very attractive option for the longer-term student at this point.

[superschalk]

(05-22-2018 01:59 AM)AceP Wrote:  

And if YOU where to choose your next 3-4 years to settle down; between these choices: Would you choose Belarus or Ukraine? Which city?

Before you decide that you want to live the next 3-4 years in Ukraine, Russia or Belarus you should try to live there for three months without leaving the country from December till March.

Reality is if you come from the western world life in one of these countries is extremely hard if you look at it on a long term basis.

The weather is shit from October till end of April. It is dark and depressing. People are in general just not friendly (I dont mean this as a negative thing but it is their mentality), service in restaurants and in general is a nightmare. It is really difficult to get into social circles with locals even if you speak Russian you always will be a foreigner. Girls are hot but also materialistic and they know how to play foreigners.

These are just a few negative points but this list goes on and on and on.

Don´t get me wrong. Kiev is one of my top 3 favorite cities in the whole world and I can´t wait to get back in July. I also had a great time in Russia and Belarus. But these three countries longer than three months burn me out. I am not able to stay there for longer. The girls are great especially once you know how they work but going on 10 dates per week always talking the same (what you do in Ukraine? how do you find Ukraine girls?) and walking for hours with these girls gets boring after a month.

I also know a lot of expats in Kiev and pretty much all of them only complain about everything in the country. So I would go there first for a three months stint and then make a decision if you could really commit living there for the next four years.

(05-22-2018 01:59 AM)AceP Wrote:  

As in for the top-tier girls: I think judging from what everyone's saying, the top-tiers HBs is higher in Ukraine than Belarus. If you have a couple years to decrypt your way to the top-tier circles Ukraine seems to be the better choice.

Forget about top tier circles if you come there to study. If you want to make it to the top tier circles you need to have money and you still will be the foreigner. And by having money I am not talking about a few 1000 Dollars per month I am talking about Lambos, 10k $ watches etc.

[nola]

(05-22-2018 01:04 PM)AceP Wrote:  

Ah right, forgive me for misreading/miswriting some of the names.
Most of my travels have only been around Asia and North Americas so I'm still trying to get used to the European names. Krakow and Kharkov was not obvious for me until I've googled it. (Doesn't help that Kiev is sometimes pronounced Kyiv and Lviv is sometimes pronounced Lvov -- the confusion)

Yes, to answer your questions, I have committed myself for the next 3-4 years into studying the Russian Language until I can master it.

Good info on the Lviv heads up. Not sure if learning Polish or Ukrainian is a good idea when you can just learn the more widescreen motherland language and able to use it on other ex-soviet countries. Also good to know that there is no significant difference between the height of the average Belarus and Ukrainians. Kharkov sounds like a very attractive option for the longer-term student at this point.

Learning Russian is going will pay off way more than Ukrainian or Polish.

Also if you're going to consider studying Russian, I would suggest enrolling in a Russian University. Tomsk is cheap and the University of Tomsk has a partnership with MIT.

They have a great startup scene in the city so you'll have some good networking opportunities without incurring cost associated with Moscow or SPB.

Maybe consider doing a language immersion program and also take graduate classes in a STEM field to pursue a graduate degree.

That will open a lot of doors for you in the future.

[Kissinger2014]

(05-22-2018 01:38 PM)superschalk Wrote:  

(05-22-2018 01:59 AM)AceP Wrote:  

And if YOU where to choose your next 3-4 years to settle down; between these choices: Would you choose Belarus or Ukraine? Which city?

Before you decide that you want to live the next 3-4 years in Ukraine, Russia or Belarus you should try to live there for three months without leaving the country from December till March.

Reality is if you come from the western world life in one of these countries is extremely hard if you look at it on a long term basis.

The weather is shit from October till end of April. It is dark and depressing. People are in general just not friendly (I dont mean this as a negative thing but it is their mentality), service in restaurants and in general is a nightmare. It is really difficult to get into social circles with locals even if you speak Russian you always will be a foreigner. Girls are hot but also materialistic and they know how to play foreigners.

These are just a few negative points but this list goes on and on and on.

Don´t get me wrong. Kiev is one of my top 3 favorite cities in the whole world and I can´t wait to get back in July. I also had a great time in Russia and Belarus. But these three countries longer than three months burn me out. I am not able to stay there for longer. The girls are great especially once you know how they work but going on 10 dates per week always talking the same (what you do in Ukraine? how do you find Ukraine girls?) and walking for hours with these girls gets boring after a month.

I also know a lot of expats in Kiev and pretty much all of them only complain about everything in the country. So I would go there first for a three months stint and then make a decision if you could really commit living there for the next four years.

(05-22-2018 01:59 AM)AceP Wrote:  

As in for the top-tier girls: I think judging from what everyone's saying, the top-tiers HBs is higher in Ukraine than Belarus. If you have a couple years to decrypt your way to the top-tier circles Ukraine seems to be the better choice.

Forget about top tier circles if you come there to study. If you want to make it to the top tier circles you need to have money and you still will be the foreigner. And by having money I am not talking about a few 1000 Dollars per month I am talking about Lambos, 10k $ watches etc.

This^^^^. I agree. It does seem you have limited knowledge of the region, and so if you are going to make a big investment of spending a year or years there, you should spend a few hundred bucks for a flight and another few hundred for accommodation to check out the options.

I have spent considerable time in Ukraine (mostly in Kiev), and only a week in Belarus.

If the goal is to learn Russian, Minsk is the place to be. While Kharkiv, Odessa, and even Kiev are still predominately Russian-speaking Ukrainian cities, almost all the signs, and many menus and media are in Ukrainian (and increasing by the day). Most Belarusians speak better Russian than Belarusian. Also, there are just more English speakers in Ukraine than in Belarus, so if you are like most lazy Americans - myself included - it is easier to default into English than force yourself to speak Russian.

Belarus still has its negatives. It is a police state -- they still have the KGB. Registration and bureaucratic red tape in Belarus makes Ukraine seem like Singapore. The Belarusian linguistic university that I was thinking about studying at for a few weeks had like a 20 part checklist to register and get admitted. I visited about 18 months ago there was one small area with cool and modern restaurants and bars. Kiev has much more to offer in terms of nightlife and going out.

At the time I went, I found Minsk to be around 20 percent more expensive than Kiev (comparing mostly Uber costs and cocktails).

Exotic factor will likely be higher in Minsk than most of Ukraine (though if you go to places like Kherson or Mykoloiv, it would be on par with Minsk).

[Garibaldi]

I have been to both Kherson and Mykolaiv and there is not that much of an exotic factor due to both places being popular with marriage agencies and close proximity to Odessa.

Yes op is guilty like many people on the forum of over analysing, he should visit both places and make a decision

[Dragan]

(05-22-2018 04:00 AM)nola Wrote:  

In Belarus you will need a solid command of Russian or it's pointless for girls. And for Ukraine, other than Kiev and to some extent Odessa I think without a good command of Russian Ukraine is pointless. If you're in the top 5% in the looks department that might buffer off not having language skills but I simply do not see a lot of non-russian speaking foreigners doing well in Ukraine or Belarus. It's not impossible but it's just not a common occurrence.

In Ukraine I frequently run into defeated foreigners that will ask me about p4p or where to find more English speaking girls.

If you're really planning to stay as long as you say you are there are some very cheap intense 11 month language schools that will elevate your chances drastically. Belarus is a better country to learn Russian than Ukraine. I would think Minsk would get very boring though after a few months.

I settled in Kharkov Ukraine which a lot of guys on here think is a pretty boring place with too many middle easterners but I don't really feel the effect, it's no were near as intense in regards to sex tourism as Odessa or Kiev. It's a college city, very cheap, easy to navigate with a lot of solid talent. It also gets very little western tourism. Also I see very little competition from local men and I don't consider middle eastern sex tourist competition either.

Also as far as gold diggers. If you gunning for top talent without the language down and don't have your shit together it's one likely you'll fail. And even if she is half interested in you she is going to look for something else to extract from you to justify her spending time with you. Unfortunately that usually comes in the form of material objects and money. Otherwise what's the point for her to date you.? You can't understand each other and your life and or appearance or both is a fucking mess. There are high value local men that speak her language, know her culture, take care of themselves and have resources. There are at least enough of these types of men that the top 10% of girls will not have a problem landing one.

If I understand the similarities between Russian/ukranian and Russian/ Belorussian correctly, Belorussian is closer to Russian holistically.

I think there is a lot more p4p in Ukraine than we realize, agreed.

I ran into this issue the first time I was in Serbia, you check out language schools, and you say, “oh shit, that’s expensive by Serbian/ Russian/ Whatever standards.” And then you don’t go. Maybe it is expensive by Serbian/ whatever standards, but I’m sure it’s cheap by Westerner standards. Just go. Learning language is key. Schools are GOOD, they’ve methodical about teaching, good luck with a private tutor unless you’re seriously dedicated. And, if we take a political angle that is often reflected on the forum, you need to fucking assimilate. That’s the truth—expat communities do almost nothing for you growing into be a better person. I almost guarantee people have more fun in foreign countries when they make the effort to be there. Just from a limited about of evidence I’ve evaluated on the forum, it freaking helps to buy into wherever your living.

Gold diggers: maybe they are present in Ukrainian/ Russian/ Belorussian cultures. But if anything, I’ve learned the stuff is overhyped. I’ve been having sort of a dialogue with several forum members based in South Europe/ EE/ FSU, about this question, and I think we agree. Some small subset of girls are gold diggers, but the rest choose native men, or just fucking leave—much like Ukrainian/ Russian women to Dubai… Serbia bears a lot of similarities to these countries, but no-one has sucked my dick for flashing an American passport. I’m average, sure, but most gold diggers congregate to native men. Hell, they have the exact same culture… It’s only natural.

[traveler97]

(05-22-2018 01:59 AM)AceP Wrote:  

Belarus -VS- Ukraine
1. More Brunette - More Blondes

Yes, but this true because in Minsk girls dye their hair with black dye.
So there are more Brunette in Belarus, but they're fake Brunettes.

(05-22-2018 01:59 AM)AceP Wrote:  

2. Taller Girls - Shorter Girls

Yes, for you this can be an issue, but not because there's a huge difference about height, but because girls dress really often high heels, and they're in 99% of cases more than 183 cm (6' in US system, right?).

(05-22-2018 01:59 AM)AceP Wrote:  

3. Less Competition - More Competition (much harder VISAs - Ukraine seem to be over-hyped too)

I don't agree, in Minsk you see Turkish, Arabs and Chinese even far from the center, while in Kiev outside center there are none.

(05-22-2018 01:59 AM)AceP Wrote:  

3b. More Exotic Factor - Less Exotic Factor (for the Asian Korean look specifically - I don't think a lot of East Asians will choose to study at the FSU at the first place over 1st world countries)

Nope, there is a huge Chinese expat community in Minsk, they even do VIP tables in high end clubs there.
While in Kiev there are some Uzbek students and tourists, who aren't close to East Asians look.
Anyway you will see that it's not a race issue, but more a passport issue.

(05-22-2018 01:59 AM)AceP Wrote:  

4. Even more conservative - conservative

Yes, but in Belarus they're conservative only with foreigners, you will see Russians and Belarusians men can do things not allowed to us.

(05-22-2018 01:59 AM)AceP Wrote:  

5. Cheaper than Ukraine - cheaper than Russia

Wrong as fuck, Minsk is by far more expensive than Kiev, but still less expensive than Russia.
Expensiveness:
1)Russia
2)Belarus
3)Ukraine

(05-22-2018 01:59 AM)AceP Wrote:  

6. Not in EU/more isolated (like Russia) - Will be integrated with EU/Schegen eventually

Hahahaahahahaha, do you know there is a war going on in Eastern Ukraine?
That's pure sci-fi.
No countries with war/territorial disputes are allowed to join EU or Schengen.

(05-22-2018 01:59 AM)AceP Wrote:  

7. Population: Minsk 2 Million - Kiev 3 Million

Yes.

(05-22-2018 01:59 AM)AceP Wrote:  

What I Do NOT Yet Know
1. Does Belarus raw beauty (face) really can compete with Ukrainian's beauty on average? Or Ukrainian's average is still higher.

I found girls in Kiev more good looking compared to Minsk.
But everyone has got it's own taste, so you should visit both places.

(05-22-2018 01:59 AM)AceP Wrote:  

2. Are Belarus girls more curvy (body) than Ukrainians? I know Roosh wrote an article about Polish girls having much more better non-petite bodies. Is there significant differences between Belarus and Ukrainian women?

Mmmm no, they're more and less the same, but Ukranians girls have by far better asses.

(05-22-2018 01:59 AM)AceP Wrote:  

3. I heard the younger generation college-educated girls can speak decent English. Are both countries equally good/bad at their English? Or one is better than the other.

I found English level by far more good in Kiev compared to Minsk.
English knowledge (from higher to lower):

1)Kiev
2)Minsk
3)Moscow

(05-22-2018 01:59 AM)AceP Wrote:  

4. I heard the night game scene for Belarus: only the high end girls can afford it. It is a big difference compared to Ukraine?

To be honest I didn't see all these differences, clubs are in both just places pay4pay, with whores looking for clients and Turkish/Arabs guys looking for cheap sex.
It's a pure waste of time if you're looking for normal girls, they go out only in Saturday night, and you have to find them between all the whores.
What I wrote up it's referred to "classic clubs".

(05-22-2018 01:59 AM)AceP Wrote:  

5. How about the gold-digger vibe? I heard you have to filter out really hard in Ukraine. Is this also or not the same case for Belarus?
These are just some of the unanswered questions I can think off at the moment.

What do you mean exactly with "gold-digger vibe"?
That man pays for everything is normal in Eastern Europe, even their fellow citizens do the same.

(05-22-2018 01:59 AM)AceP Wrote:  

Now judging from those points: It shows that point 1,2,4,6,7 is for Ukraine and 3, 3b the only significant point for Belarus. What would be your input for me bros for Belarus women vs Ukraine women?

I prefered Ukrainians girls, to be honest.
Belarusians girls are too politically correct, I feel bored with them, while Ukrainians don't even know what "politically correct" means .
And in general I found girls in Kiev by far more funny.

(05-22-2018 01:59 AM)AceP Wrote:  

And if YOU where to choose your next 3-4 years to settle down; between these choices: Would you choose Belarus or Ukraine? Which city?

I would never go to live 3-4 years in Belarus or Ukraine.
I mean, I really love Kiev, but damn, during winter it will be too cold and boring.
Life it's not only about girls.
And from what I undestand, you're not really experienced about Eastern Europe.
You should go there at least 3 weeks in each city during the winter to undestand the vibe.

Anyway you're on the right way, learning Russian is the solution, all the English speaker girls in those places are spoiled (with a behavior really close or the same to Western girls).
You should stop to think with schemes and races, the main issue it's to make clear to the girls as soon as possible you're from the West.
And game there it's different from West, so you have to learn some things (it's like learning a new language, new words, grammar rules etcetera).
Even if in my opinion, game usually changes from city to city...

[traveler97]

(05-22-2018 01:38 PM)superschalk Wrote:  

(05-22-2018 01:59 AM)AceP Wrote:  

And if YOU where to choose your next 3-4 years to settle down; between these choices: Would you choose Belarus or Ukraine? Which city?

Before you decide that you want to live the next 3-4 years in Ukraine, Russia or Belarus you should try to live there for three months without leaving the country from December till March.

Reality is if you come from the western world life in one of these countries is extremely hard if you look at it on a long term basis.

....

Forget about top tier circles if you come there to study. If you want to make it to the top tier circles you need to have money and you still will be the foreigner. And by having money I am not talking about a few 1000 Dollars per month I am talking about Lambos, 10k $ watches etc.

This answer is just perfect.
You should print it and always bring it in your wallet.

[RawGod]

Is this talk of Belarus genuine or just mental masturbation? As far as I was aware you can only travel there on a 10 day visa.

[AceP]

(05-24-2018 08:57 PM)RawGod Wrote:  

Is this talk of Belarus genuine or just mental masturbation? As far as I was aware you can only travel there on a 10 day visa.

Great posts bros.

I really appreciate the inputs from everyone here.

I am just still a little surprised by the Belarus issue with the migrants turks/chinese and their "political correctness" compared to Ukrainians (well wouldn't really be a problem as in to game the girls itself on the political correctness bit, I can just agree with whatever until you're in their pants) but it just seems a lot worse than I thought.

^ This post exactly. I originally believe the 10 day-max visa from Belarus, is really a deal-killer for most people traveling to Minsk for game thus the exotic factor for non-natives are through the roof or only those who are in Belarus for a longer-term (student/working) can reap the better results.

[Jungle]

(05-24-2018 08:57 PM)RawGod Wrote:  

Is this talk of Belarus genuine or just mental masturbation? As far as I was aware you can only travel there on a 10 day visa.

I wasn't aware of any such "10 day visa".... Maybe you're referring to the 5 day visa free period via Minsk Airport?

Otherwise according to the website of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Republic of Belarus:

"Short-term visa (type C), valid up to 90 days with the right of single, double or multiple entry and the right to stay for up to 90 days for tourism"

[Rossi]

Who said Belarus is cheaper than Ukraine?

[peterfoo22]

I have been to Ukraine many times will again be there this year and probably Belarus this fall as well.

I will chime in on living in the Ukraine since I’ve been there. Sounds like your priority is to learn Russian and to get hot girls.

I am Korean American so maybe my experience is a little different than the others and haven studying Russian for almost 1.5 years.

I am probably A2 to B1ish level right now as well.

I too once had grandeur of ideas of living in Ukraine but as the saying goes you have a plan till you get punched in the mouth.


The reality is that as mentioned earlier weather sucks between October till April. Dark dreary and snowing.

Difficult to find things of everyday convience if you’re coming from a western country.

Then come the girls it’s minefield there so many hoops and games and not to mention all the p4p, Arabs and Turks.

I would definitely consider doing some test runs there before you make a huge commitment to either city.

Good luck!

[nola]

I'm sorry I keep reading about this living in Ukraine is tough + the sex tourism p4p comments and I can't help but to post this.

I'm a pretty well off American that lives in Ukraine and has lived in EE for a long time. I lived a upper middle class maybe a bit above middle class lifestyle in major US cities prior.

I've never had any trouble in Ukraine or EE in general matching that lifestyle. You can find western style apartments in almost any city, at least every single one I've been to with the exception of the conflict zones. There is running hot water, pretty much any name brands you can think of, high end restaurants and markets. You can get pretty decent medical care in private hospitals which are not expensive. One can find most medications with the exception of very few but pharmacies can usually get them if you need something special.

I actually find a lot of things more convenient here than in Western Countries, like having a ton of 24 hour places, being able to get basic medications without prescriptions and for very cheap. Dental care is great and very cheap. Hell even many doctors will take house calls like it's 1940's America.

There has been some food quality issues lately with the current sanctions but there are usually several markets within close proximity that will carry fresh vegetables if the first one you hit is not stocking them. Also you can always ask managers of markets to call you when they get fresh shipments of goods.

If you want to stay up-to-date on western tv, movies, news ect even better want to watch it on your living room flat screen hook up a VGA splitter or HDMI cable to your lap-top and there are plenty of sites you can get whatever you want.

If you're staying long-term apply for a visa through a lawyer, enroll in a language school or get a part-time job teaching english a few hours a week.

If you don't have the language you can enroll in intense language immersion programs. Many year long ones cost only 800 - 1000 euro for the whole program. I've seen some that include one meal per day as well in that cost.

If you can generate 1500 - 2000 euro per month independently you can live a pretty good life and still save money.

They have taxi apps like Uber in Ukraine now so you don't have to deal with taxi scammers. Other cities in EE will at least have uber like apps.

Even most major EE cities will have a ton more to offer than small southern towns. Place I grew up in the Southern US we had to drive 3 hours just to go to a real mall.

As far as weather in my opinion it is not any shittier weather than if one was living in Boston or some Midwest State like Wisconsin.

Also something really sexy about a girl decked out in fur head to toe. It's the closest a man can get to fucking a bond villain.

I'm just curious as to what are these conveniences people are missing.?

Okay you can't shop on Amazon.? well if you have a friend or family member back home you can always shop on there and have whatever you buy shipped to them and they can ship it over to you.

Bad service? well I'd hope if a person travels a lot they are adaptable enough to just look at a waiter and yell them over. Bartenders don't kiss your ass for tips.? oh well you don't have to tip here if you don't feel like it. I only tip in places I go to regularly anyway. I've simply walked out of places without paying if the service is that bad.

Is it because they don't clear the sidewalks of ice and snow that well.? Wear snow boots like you would in any other winter environment. If a babushka can handle it so can you.

Don't want to run street game in 2 degree weather.? then game in malls, stores, bars, clubs, lounges, markets or anywhere indoors.

Is it middle eastern sex tourist or sex tourist in general? if you can't out game Muhammad or Fat Midwest Fred in a night club then you need to go back to the drawing board. I've still failed to meet more than a handful of girls that will let middle eastern dicks anywhere near their pussies and sex tourist in general are so fucking obvious it's actually entertaining to watch them approach. Being Middle Eastern in Ukraine is a huge disadvantage with or without money. Saying the sex tourist are fucking night game up is like saying you couldn't out game Hitler Youth in a Israeli night club. Truth is 95% of these sex tourist end up going online to order a hooker to their AirBnb or head to the strip clubs and brothels usually only after a few days into their visits.

If you're struggling to convince girls you're not a sex tourist or staying longer than a few weeks then you need to work on your backstory. If you're just naturally bad at telling a story. Just say you were brought over to consult for the next 2 years for some major corporation in the city she has heard of. Make the consulting gig at least pertain to some job you've had in real life so you will be convincing if she ask further questions which they usually don't.

In reality the only real serious disadvantage in Ukraine at least is if you do not have at least basic Russian proficiency you will struggle. Even if you're in Kiev where the highest concentration of English speakers are and even in Kiev English levels are pretty abysmal. If you don't have basic Russian and still want to come then you'll need to be honest with yourself and ask am I at least the top 10% in the looks and physique department.? If you have serious deficiencies in looks, height or physique or all three in combination with no basic Russian then you're going to struggle really badly here. Unless of course you're okay with playing serious sponsorship game and even then you're still going to be hitting mid-tier girls.

Rant over

[BangBoy123]

(05-29-2018 11:03 AM)nola Wrote:  

I'm sorry I keep reading about this living in Ukraine is tough + the sex tourism p4p comments and I can't help but to post this.

I'm a pretty well off American that lives in Ukraine and has lived in EE for a long time. I lived a upper middle class maybe a bit above middle class lifestyle in major US cities prior.

I've never had any trouble in Ukraine or EE in general matching that lifestyle. You can find western style apartments in almost any city, at least every single one I've been to with the exception of the conflict zones. There is running hot water, pretty much any name brands you can think of, high end restaurants and markets. You can get pretty decent medical care in private hospitals which are not expensive. One can find most medications with the exception of very few but pharmacies can usually get them if you need something special.

I actually find a lot of things more convenient here than in Western Countries, like having a ton of 24 hour places, being able to get basic medications without prescriptions and for very cheap. Dental care is great and very cheap. Hell even many doctors will take house calls like it's 1940's America.

There has been some food quality issues lately with the current sanctions but there are usually several markets within close proximity that will carry fresh vegetables if the first one you hit is not stocking them. Also you can always ask managers of markets to call you when they get fresh shipments of goods.

If you want to stay up-to-date on western tv, movies, news ect even better want to watch it on your living room flat screen hook up a VGA splitter or HDMI cable to your lap-top and there are plenty of sites you can get whatever you want.

If you're staying long-term apply for a visa through a lawyer, enroll in a language school or get a part-time job teaching english a few hours a week.

If you don't have the language you can enroll in intense language immersion programs. Many year long ones cost only 800 - 1000 euro for the whole program. I've seen some that include one meal per day as well in that cost.

If you can generate 1500 - 2000 euro per month independently you can live a pretty good life and still save money.

They have taxi apps like Uber in Ukraine now so you don't have to deal with taxi scammers. Other cities in EE will at least have uber like apps.

Even most major EE cities will have a ton more to offer than small southern towns. Place I grew up in the Southern US we had to drive 3 hours just to go to a real mall.

As far as weather in my opinion it is not any shittier weather than if one was living in Boston or some Midwest State like Wisconsin.

Also something really sexy about a girl decked out in fur head to toe. It's the closest a man can get to fucking a bond villain.

I'm just curious as to what are these conveniences people are missing.?

Okay you can't shop on Amazon.? well if you have a friend or family member back home you can always shop on there and have whatever you buy shipped to them and they can ship it over to you.

Bad service? well I'd hope if a person travels a lot they are adaptable enough to just look at a waiter and yell them over. Bartenders don't kiss your ass for tips.? oh well you don't have to tip here if you don't feel like it. I only tip in places I go to regularly anyway. I've simply walked out of places without paying if the service is that bad.

Is it because they don't clear the sidewalks of ice and snow that well.? Wear snow boots like you would in any other winter environment. If a babushka can handle it so can you.

Don't want to run street game in 2 degree weather.? then game in malls, stores, bars, clubs, lounges, markets or anywhere indoors.

Is it middle eastern sex tourist or sex tourist in general? if you can't out game Muhammad or Fat Midwest Fred in a night club then you need to go back to the drawing board. I've still failed to meet more than a handful of girls that will let middle eastern dicks anywhere near their pussies and sex tourist in general are so fucking obvious it's actually entertaining to watch them approach. Being Middle Eastern in Ukraine is a huge disadvantage with or without money. Saying the sex tourist are fucking night game up is like saying you couldn't out game Hitler Youth in a Israeli night club. Truth is 95% of these sex tourist end up going online to order a hooker to their AirBnb or head to the strip clubs and brothels usually only after a few days into their visits.

If you're struggling to convince girls you're not a sex tourist or staying longer than a few weeks then you need to work on your backstory. If you're just naturally bad at telling a story. Just say you were brought over to consult for the next 2 years for some major corporation in the city she has heard of. Make the consulting gig at least pertain to some job you've had in real life so you will be convincing if she ask further questions which they usually don't.

In reality the only real serious disadvantage in Ukraine at least is if you do not have at least basic Russian proficiency you will struggle. Even if you're in Kiev where the highest concentration of English speakers are and even in Kiev English levels are pretty abysmal. If you don't have basic Russian and still want to come then you'll need to be honest with yourself and ask am I at least the top 10% in the looks and physique department.? If you have serious deficiencies in looks, height or physique or all three in combination with no basic Russian then you're going to struggle really badly here. Unless of course you're okay with playing serious sponsorship game and even then you're still going to be hitting mid-tier girls.

Rant over

+1

A lot of this is absolutely true.

When you have lived in Ukraine for a long time you do get pissed off with some things, but then you leave the country and go elsewhere and you realise it's the same or worse in a lot of places. I forgot how bad the food was in my country until I went back there recently and went to a restaurant. I complain about Ukrainian food a fair bit in Ukraine but there are plenty of places where you can eat well for approximately $5-$10

As far as the Turks and other Middle Easterners go, then yes the low achievers will moan about them most, then again I do understand them a bit, because the nightclubs in Ukraine have become no go zones in recent years, girls don't want to go to a club where there's tables full of Turks leering at them and offering them money for sex(apart from Caribbean Club ). There's barely any local guys in the clubs either, they're not going to waste their money trying to get a girl in such a shitty environment.

Yes the service can either be really bad or really good. The waiters and waitresses are often under 21 and on about $200, so can't expect them to give too much of a shit. They often don't write down your order so you often get something different, or you order a burger and fries, they bring your fries first and burger 10 minutes later. You cannot find the waiter when you need them, but as soon as the last morsel of food has left your plate they materialise from nowhere.

Another thing I dislike about the service is that the waiters and waitresses are against you, if you ask what is good on the menu they will more often than not just say the most expensive thing, and you need to order food for your date, otherwise they tell your date in Russia that the most expensive thing on the menu is verrry tasty.


Backstory is certainly important, if you say "I just came to hang out" then they lose respect and trust for you straight away, "why does he want to live in this shithole that I want to escape"...."how does he spend his time?....oh he's chasing girls". Always say you are in Ukraine for work purposes, they won't ask too many questions, and they won't look at you with revolt.

The thing that troubles me about Ukraine the most is manners, and that doesn't get much better no matter how long I spend in Ukraine, manners are important in life as they put those around you at ease. Pushing and shoving you with no apology, invading your personal space, not saying anything when you give them money, speeding up when they see you crossing the street, the list goes on. There are many things I like about Ukrainians, but I can't be bothered listing them

[nola]

Thanks for the rep,

On Clubs: Ukraine vets should elaborate more on this, clubs are where you take girls not meet them. If I go to a club I specifically go to get loaded and pay the staff to allow me to make an ass of myself how ever I see fit that night so long as it does not involve fighting. If fighting becomes the course at some point just grease up the security and ask them where outside they'ed prefer you to throw down. Manners are absolutely important in my book.

Also fuck the Caribbean Club, Sorry Babushka, Shooters and Sky Bar these Kiev clubs have no business being mentioned on this forum, these are P4P/Simi-pro joints or for guys who like to play sponsorship game.

Also The Bar falls somewhere in there. Last time I went to The Bar I almost ended up knifing a Azerbaijani fag in the smoking lounge who came in trying to start a fight with myself and some students I was hanging with. Busted expats love that fucking place for some reason.

Guys who like night game should be going to Karaoke Bars with their newly minted basic Russian skills.

[peterfoo22]

Of course you can out game or avoid the p4p Turks and Arabs but there also good looking young Turkish and Arabs you’re competeing against as well. On top of that fighting off the hordes of guys from Europe and North America as well.

As far as western conviences I will give a few examples of what you’re dealing with on a daily basis.

I was doing a heavy night of drinking and wanted a get a few aspirins at the local late night mini market and of course you can only get them at the pharmacy (аптека) which of course isn’t open late night.

Another example I wanted to go watch a new movie that came out but there are no English subtitles and on top of that the movies are in Ukrainian.

The apartments are absolute shit in Ukraine, most of them don’t even have Hot water tanks that work. Also the heat during the winter doesn’t even work half the time because the heat is controlled by the local government or the heating pipes are so old they barely work. Also most buildings don’t even have elevators and none of the apartments have clothes dryers. So your clothes always wrinkled unless you want to spend hours ironing them.

And then they have the nerve to charge you 1500 a month rent for this shitty apartment.

and one other thing I wanted to mention is the nightlife in Kiev, which is pretty much garbage.

I won’t go into the details but take my word for it none of the options are worth it.

Anyways wanted to add to my post with some specifics, Hope this helps.