[RoastBeefCurtains4Me]

It's clear that on the one hand, you can divide all men into alpha and beta. It's also clear that once you get to a certain level of discussion, you can't help adding new categories. Super Alpha and omega clearly are real things that are distinct from ordinary alphas and betas of the kind you see every day. Trump is a super alpha. Neck beard basement dwelling incels are omegas.
It's useful to break these categories down to talk about the different characteristics. It's helpful to do this for guys who want to improve themselves, so they can recognize their problem behavior patterns and straighten them out.

Now the only question is agreeing on a common terminology to provide for useful and effective communication.

Whoever puts out a list will inevitably be the target of disagreement. In Vox's case, he put out his list, and takes the confident and somewhat arrogant position that his list is authoritative and relatively final. He did the same with the list of alt-right principles.

An alternate approach is having some kind of committee to decide things, like the IEEE deciding on a new USB standard. There are no such committees in the manophere or alt-right. It's pretty much necessary for these things to be battled out in the marketplace of ideas, and the fighting will be messy sometimes. Vox has not problem with wading into the fight.

Conclusion: Vox's work is useful. He tends to be on the leading edge of some important issues, and he is aggressive and dominant in pushing and fighting for these ideas. There are details you could bicker over, but his work is solid, and he is valuable to our side.

As for his taxonomy, you could split hairs about the different categories. Heck, I would make some changes myself. However, the list is as good as any, and it's kind of crazy to tear into him because you'd make some of the categories different.

[RexImperator]

Quote:

Conclusion: Vox's work is useful. He tends to be on the leading edge of some important issues, and he is aggressive and dominant in pushing and fighting for these ideas. There are details you could bicker over, but his work is solid, and he is valuable to our side.

Discussing that was more or less the point of starting the thread. Somehow the socio-sexual stuff has taken over, even though there's another thread already devoted to that:

thread-57715.html

(It might be hard to find via search since both "Vox" and "Day" have only three letters...)

[MMX2010]

Leonard Neubache Wrote:

And for the record, a Sigma wouldn't have threatened Gab.ai with a lawsuit over some stormfag's hurtful comments "because the authorities might take the accusations seriously".

I don't recall him saying that, but I recall a few people falsely claiming this. You're using a direct quote to signify something you misremember, but I'm not going to make you find text or video of Vox saying this.

Thanks, Chevy Woonsocket, for clearing that up.

Leonard, you over-reached again.

[Chevy Woonsocket]

(03-11-2018 07:07 PM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

And for the record, a Sigma wouldn't have threatened Gab.ai with a lawsuit over some stormfag's hurtful comments "because the authorities might take the accusations seriously". Do you seriously see Anonymous Bosch, Comte de Saint Germain, or Veloce doing something like that?

This is where I stop listening to the criticism of Vox by people who clearly don't know what they're talking about.

https://voxday.blogspot.com/2017/09/legal-update.html

Vox never sued Gab, he never threatened to sue Gab. He wanted to go after the users that posted defamatory comments, Torba told him to get a court order, which he did, then Torba flew into a sperg rage. Now who's the Gamma here?

Irrelevant personal attacks on Vox aside, I think his latest video brought out a good point on how Germanic immigration into the Roman Empire quickly turned into an invasion force (60 years).

In order for that to happen today, the immigrants would have to control a sizable amount of territory and the military to pull this off directly. I think what is more likely to happen is that areas will become ethnically homogenous of one type that will demand semi-autonomous rule. This will give the powers that be the perfect pretext to scrap existing boundaries and laws for new ones that favor global government.

[MMX2010]

@Zelcorpion,

If you want to reject the idea of Alphas helping people, (by equating jailed criminals to someone like Donald Trump, no less!), then I don't have the power to stop you. But if that's the kind of "hierarchy" you want to create, that's on you.

[Genghis Khan]

Quote:

Vox never sued Gab, he never threatened to sue Gab. He wanted to go after the users that posted defamatory comments,

Hair-splitting.

Appreciate the clarification, but does this really change the argument?

OK so instead of going after Gab, he wanted to go after random people online who called him a pedo.

Let's change Leonard's comment to be precisely right:

Quote:

And for the record, a Sigma wouldn't have tried to find the personal information of people over some stormfag's hurtful comments "because the authorities might take the accusations seriously". Do you seriously see Anonymous Bosch, Comte de Saint Germain, or Veloce doing something like that?

Yeah, VD definitely wasn't Gamma in this case...

Vox Day:

Quote:

I will be pursuing this matter until the defamation is removed and the @dantheman10, @GTKRWN, and @Fabian_Nazism are forced to answer for their defamatory actions.

Quote:

In the meantime, if you follow me on social media, you can do so on Twitter, as I will not be using Gab until the defamation is removed and policies are instituted that can be reasonably expected to prevent similar incidents in the future.

Can you be any more petty?

[MMX2010]

Genghis Khan Wrote:

OK so instead of going after Gab, he wanted to go after random people online who called him a pedo.

If a friend of yours was being defamed online, and he had the financial means to sue the defaming party, would you advise your friend to sue OR advise him to just accept being defamed without a fight?

[Chevy Woonsocket]

(03-11-2018 10:01 PM)Added to Ignore List Wrote:  

Hair-splitting.

Appreciate the clarification, but does this really change the argument?

OK so instead of going after Gab, he wanted to go after random people online who called him a pedo.

Yeah, VD definitely wasn't Gamma in this case...

Thank you for proving my point. Rather than admitting you're wrong you attempt to claim Vox never had a legitimate complaint? You're wrong, he did. It's per se defamation. It's an actual crime.

http://injury.findlaw.com/torts-and-pers...r-se-.html

Furthermore, it only got this far because Gab does not have a comprehensive moderation policy, which is why they got kicked off the fucking Google and Apple app stores. Which Andrew Torba made permanent by his stupid fucking idea to sue Google.

Also, the snark about Gamma is ironic.

(03-11-2018 10:01 PM)MMX2010 Wrote:  

If a friend of yours was being defamed online, and he had the financial means to sue the defaming party, would you advise your friend to sue OR advise him to just accept being defamed without a fight?

I would advise him to sue the bastard for every cent he had. In this day and age, where vicious Internet rumors can cost a man his job and/or his livelihood I would strongly recommend anybody do that, just to set a precedent if nothing else.

For the last time, Andrew Torba specifically refused to moderate those comments and dared Vox to get a court order. It's unfortunate, I wish it didn't have to come to that, but ultimately Vox had a legitimate greivance.

[MMX2010]

Chevy Woonsocket Wrote:

I would advise him to sue the bastard for every cent he had. In this day and age, where vicious Internet rumors can cost a man his job and/or his livelihood I would strongly recommend anybody do that, just to set a precedent if nothing else.

I would, too.

Has anyone forgotten that Roosh went through something similar as Vox? Like Vox, Roosh is also a controversial blogposter and author.

No one claimed that Roosh was either Gamma or petty for threatening to sue for defamation here.

[Richard Turpin]

As someone who is relatively new to this area of the internet, I can only speak as I find. And I've found Vox's site (as well as this one) to be incredibly refreshing beacons in an ocean of politically correct converged bought-and-paid for media.

From the moment I wake up till my head hits the pillow, I and everyone else on my Isle are bombarded by MSM's evil influence relentlessly. God only knows what it must do to those without an 'alternative' viewpoint, which I have been lucky enough to find with sites like these.

I understand some of the antagonism towards Vox but I prefer to absorb the good and discard the bad and as long as I'm learning from it, I'm good. I can't remember where I read on here recently, but someone said something along the lines of 'don't punch right' and I'd suggest that's a great idea as division can only weaken us.

[Yatagan]

I originally signed up for gab because of Vox (as did a number of people) but after finding out they stood for allowing defamation of his character with the whole pedo bit I then deleted my account.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

(03-11-2018 09:22 PM)MMX2010 Wrote:  

@Zelcorpion,

If you want to reject the idea of Alphas helping people, (by equating jailed criminals to someone like Donald Trump, no less!), then I don't have the power to stop you. But if that's the kind of "hierarchy" you want to create, that's on you.

It's not the hierarchy, but I think that you misunderstand the term as it is used for Red Pill inter-sexual relations. It is not applicable for determining if someone is a world leader. Napoleon was a good example of a Beta leader. He could lead men to battle and conquer Europe, but he was cucked and cheated by a woman older than him.

There are positive and negative Alphas - Alpha in Red Pill terms is ultimately decided by women and not by men - at least when the inter-sexual lense is applied and it must be. There are a ton of charismatic soldiers and great leaders of men who kill themselves over women and divorce, because with women they are deep Betas and most women see them that way.

I think that your idea of the terms are twisted strangely.

[MMX2010]

Zelcorpion Wrote:

There are positive and negative Alphas - Alpha in Red Pill terms is ultimately decided by women and not by men - at least when the inter-sexual lense is applied and it must be. There are a ton of charismatic soldiers and great leaders of men who kill themselves over women and divorce, because with women they are deep Betas and most women see them that way.

I get it, man.

Most scientists will study prisoners as outliers, because they're outliers. But you view prisoners as at least equal to non-prisoners; arguably, you weigh them higher.

Okay.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

(03-12-2018 05:49 AM)MMX2010 Wrote:  

Zelcorpion Wrote:

There are positive and negative Alphas - Alpha in Red Pill terms is ultimately decided by women and not by men - at least when the inter-sexual lense is applied and it must be. There are a ton of charismatic soldiers and great leaders of men who kill themselves over women and divorce, because with women they are deep Betas and most women see them that way.

I get it, man.

Most scientists will study prisoners as outliers, because they're outliers. But you view prisoners as at least equal to non-prisoners; arguably, you weigh them higher.

Okay.

No - I don't view them as higher. But women have an instinctive reaction to many of them, because they fall into the Alpha Dark Triad ruts. Women were bred to hitch their horses to Dark Triad men regardless of low IQ or destructive tendencies. This is Red Pill 101. That is literally the basis for idiotic r-selection versus more refined k-selection. It is also the basis for high-IQ Beta men emulating Alpha behavior - some of it even Dark Triad one to get pussy or later even become more Alpha or real Alpha.

But if your perception is different than the one shared across most readers of Rational Male, Heartiste or even here, then fine.

[Leonard D Neubache]

Trivial nuances, as if you can wipe away wrongdoing by shifting a comma.

Gab.ai was developed by people on the right as an alt-twitter where censorship wouldn't rein supreme, and Vox got his panties in a bunch when an anonymous (the whole point of the platform) stormfag started talking shit about him.

So instead of shrugging his shoulders and getting on with his life he decided to play the role of the gamma globalist overlord and show the pitiful folk over at gab.ai that he could run to the law of the land and destroy any concept they had about providing the right with a safe place to voice their opinions.

And like a typical gamma he framed it in pathetic terms about showing them the error of their ways and how it was for the good of the community in the end, but if it waddles like a gamma and quacks like a gamma then it's a gamma.

Has Donald Trump started lawsuits against everyone that defamed him on twitter? That called him a rapist? An allegation that the authorities might just take seriously?

No, Vox was gathering attention by punching right and showing everyone who was boss from behind the safety of a legal writ. Fair enough, he's a high functioning gamma like there are high functioning alphas, betas and even omegas who achieve success far beyond their typical peers, but he's still a gamma.

Alphas shrug and walk on.
Sigmas laugh and walk on.
Gammas like Vox take every wound to the heart, let it fester and then plot revenge. He pulls right but at heart he's in it for Vox.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

I gotta agree with Leonard on this. Vox went against gab for an idiotic issue. I get it that accusations of pedophilia are best met in court, but he was willing to blow up a free-speech platform to prove his point. Anyone can make anonymous accusations about anyone online. And if that person is not coming out of the woodwork with his face, then it is better not to press the issue - especially in our times where free-speech is getting restricted ever more.

[MMX2010]

Zelcorpion Wrote:

No - I don't view them as higher. But women have an instinctive reaction to many of them, because they fall into the Alpha Dark Triad ruts. Women were bred to hitch their horses to Dark Triad men regardless of low IQ or destructive tendencies. This is Red Pill 101. That is literally the basis for idiotic r-selection versus more refined k-selection. It is also the basis for high-IQ Beta men emulating Alpha behavior - some of it even Dark Triad one to get pussy or later even become more Alpha or real Alpha.

You're only 90% correct here.

The 10% you miss is that you're not willing to declare that K-selected societies are better than r-selected ones. Nor are you willing to declare that K-selected women (particularly ones with daughters whom they're trying to raise to be future good mothers) have a different series of behavioral reactions to "alpha prisoner dark triads" than do r-selected women. You're just focused on the tingle that all women feel - (reducing them solely to animals with unconscious responses) - rather than focusing on all behaviors that each woman performs.

That's why I keep saying that you don't understand that this is a Hierarchy - and that neutral description of female tingles isn't enough. Nor is it in tune with creating the types of societies you claim to want.

[Chevy Woonsocket]

The only person that is going to blow up Gab is Andrew Torba. It was his policy to force people to get a court order to deal with defamatory comments. Vox only did what Torba recommended. Then Torba immediately made personal attacks against Vox. If it put Gab in jeopardy then it is directly Torba's fault, not Vox's.

Vox absolutely did the right thing.

Torba thought he could run Gab with the editorial policy of 4chan. That's not a winning formula. 4chan has never been profitable either.

[MMX2010]

(03-12-2018 08:59 AM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  

I gotta agree with Leonard on this. Vox went against gab for an idiotic issue. I get it that accusations of pedophilia are best met in court, but he was willing to blow up a free-speech platform to prove his point. Anyone can make anonymous accusations about anyone online. And if that person is not coming out of the woodwork with his face, then it is better not to press the issue - especially in our times where free-speech is getting restricted ever more.

Leonard is basically a farmer who doesn't need worldwide reputation to make money, so he doesn't understand Vox's position. And when it was pointed out that he misremembered the situation, he didn't acknowledge that he misremembered the situation. (He dismissed it by calling the distinctions "trivial".)

So he's posting from a position of ignorance.

It'd be pretty funny to hear his rationalizations as to why Roosh wasn't Gamma when he sued S. Jane Gari for defamation, whereas Vox was Gamma because he didn't sue anyone - (he merely acquired a court order).

[Simeon_Strangelight]

(03-12-2018 09:16 AM)MMX2010 Wrote:  

It'd be pretty funny to hear his rationalizations as to why Roosh wasn't Gamma when he sued S. Jane Gari for defamation, whereas Vox was Gamma because he didn't sue anyone - (he merely acquired a court order).

Simple - this woman used her non-anonymous platform to pursue the issue.

Also the post is still up with the disclaimer added:

Quote:

(*These are allegations that have not been brought formally, nor has he been found guilty of a crime in court.)

http://www.sjanegari.com/single-post/201...ed-of-Rape

So the article changes from Roosh raped me, raped a girl to: "some anonymous girl told me a story of how he raped her".

Does not seem as if this is much of a problem from a legal standpoint.

Vox as far as I know wanted to have gab fork over personal data, so he can sue anonymous users who make stupid pedophilia allegations. If Roosh would want to sue everyone who makes any anonymous allegation out there, then Bill Gates' money would not suffice to do all of that.

------------

And MMX - of course k-selected breeding is better and the high-IQ populations of the Earth do all of that. They just fuck around in their 20s on the r-selected route, but try to settle down k-selected in their end 20s and 30s. Some only attempt it in their end 30s.

But this has little do with Alpha - Beta, in fact they fuck Alphas in their hotter years, while settling with Betas. Ideally they would want a high-IQ successful tall good-looking Alpha - aka Christian Grey. But unfortunately they don't say no to the dumb Jeremy Meeks either as he is still dating that billionaire heiress.

[MMX2010]

Zelcorpion Wrote:

Vox as far as I know wanted to have gab fork over personal data, so he can sue anonymous users who make stupid pedophilia allegations.

Leonard is basically a farmer who doesn't need to worry about his worldwide reputation. You're an anonymous person who also doesn't need to worry about his worldwide reputation. Together, you've advised a man who does need to worry about his worldwide reputation to accept your own subjective interpretations of pedophilia accusations.

Has it dawned on either of you that your anonymity means you should've recused yourself from giving your opinion? Or at bare minimum, that you should offer your opinions with the disclaimer that you've never known what it's like to need to protect your reputation on a worldwide scale?

-----

Zelcorpion Wrote:

But this has little do with Alpha - Beta, in fact they fuck Alphas in their hotter years, while settling with Betas. Ideally they would want a high-IQ successful tall good-looking Alpha - aka Christian Grey. But unfortunately they don't say no to the dumb Jeremy Meeks either as he is still dating that billionaire heiress.

Do you think a Conservative woman who wants children is totally equally likely to become a correction officer OR is that something a liberal woman who hates children is more likely to do?

If you think there's a massive difference between the two female populations, then aren't you being definitely short-sighted and arguably irresponsible by saying, "Women do this" and "Women do that"?

[debeguiled]

(03-12-2018 10:06 AM)MMX2010 Wrote:  

Leonard is basically a farmer

[Leonard D Neubache]

Mislabelling me as a farmer in contradiction with the facts has the potential to cause the Australian Taxation Office to pursue me legally for falsification of employment details.

I ar telling Roosh to delet ur posts and am threaten to sue if he no delet post!!

Also, I ar not gamma!

REEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

Leonard, I had no idea! Care to send me some organic avocados by DHL? Then I'll be able to buy a house

[MMX2010]

(03-12-2018 06:53 PM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

Mislabelling me as a farmer in contradiction with the facts has the potential to cause the Australian Taxation Office to pursue me legally for falsification of employment details.

I ar telling Roosh to delet ur posts and am threaten to sue if he no delet post!!

Also, I ar not gamma!

REEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!

You started a highly valuable thread advising men what it's like to live in a rural area, right?

You've stated on multiple occasions that one of the major blessings of living in an rural society is that the liberal policies of big cities don't affect you nearly as much, right?

So the main thrust of my argument is correct: You've deliberately created your living situation so that you don't have to defend your reputation on a worldwide scale. But this makes it impossible for you to relate to those who must defend their reputations on a worldwide scale.