[questor70]

This one is for the ages.

http://www.harpersbazaar.com/culture/fea...-equality/

I don't even know where to start, but I'd love to hear other posters dissect this.

Suffice to say, the article's thesis is to cast things in a rigid SJW frame in which there is never a valid objection to nagging. Men are simply not entitled to dislike this sort of thing.

[debeguiled]

(10-04-2017 05:18 PM)questor70 Wrote:  

Suffice to say, the article's thesis is to cast things in a rigid SJW frame in which there is never a valid objection to nagging. Men are simply not entitled to dislike this sort of thing.

Not only that, they are reframing anything a woman does as "emotional labor."

Once that is the case, it isn't nagging, it is standing up for the marginalized and the most at risk in a marriage.

This is just another ambiguous concept that can be anything a woman wants it to be and then change later. Like rape and violence and domestic abuse, terms which no longer have any shared meaning.

Or to be more accurate, their shared meaning is that women have gotten together and agreed that these terms mean whatever a woman wants whenever she wants it.

It also turns everyday annoyances into worst case scenarios needing a domestic activist to speak up in favor of the emotional labor campesinos.

Basically this chick complaining about the fact that her husband isn't her.

And wants sympathy, as if she were the injured party.

Standard female fare with a new name.

[TheOllam]

This is where we take a glimpse of the mind crossing over the bounderies of sanity:

*"Then I tried to gingerly explain the concept of emotional labor: that I was the manager of the household, and that being manager was a lot of thankless work. Delegating work to other people, i.e. telling him to do something he should instinctively know to do, is exhausting."

Yes leadership and management is actually very exhausting. Imagine trying to do it professionally, or by owning a business!

The article continues with this concept of "instinctively" knowing what to do, and to the Man's (dis)credit, he's probably checked every box on the list of domesticated fulfillment and yet it's still not enough.

*"My husband is a good man, and a good feminist ally. I could tell, as I walked him through it, that he was trying to grasp what I was getting at. But he didn’t. He said he’d try to do more cleaning around the house to help me out. He restated that all I ever needed to do was ask him for help, but therein lies the problem. I don't want to micromanage housework. I want a partner with equal initiative."

Notice the number of times she references "i" ?

Or the horror she describes in dealing with......life

*"It’s frustrating to be saddled with all of these responsibilities..."

You mean like laundry, and food shopping and cleaning? All of these things have been simplified by modern conveniences, invented by Men, just to make you "happy"

Listen lady, you've had it too good for too long and your well-meaning beta husband is probably a good dude just completely in the dark about your feelings. Dump this "I" first attitude and be happy with the life you have. Maybe take some yoga classes. The last thing we need is 2000 words of 1st world problems and self pity.

[king bast]

Quote:

“The gendered assumption is that ‘men are the problem solvers because women are too emotional,’" she explains. "But who is really solving the bulk of the world's problems at home and in the office?” As the household manager for my husband and three kids, I’m fairly certain I know the answer.

The worlds problems? Nah...problems that exist only in the womans head. Perhaps the biggest part of being a 'problem solver' is filtering what is actually a problem in need of solving, from what are just fleeting manifestations of ones neuroticism.

Women like to think the household would fall apart if they stopped "managing" it for a day, but they usually work smoother than ever without them injecting their manufactured crises into every peaceful moment. To a woman, a dirty coffee cup on the bench is a major problem in need of immediate attention. Then, it's on to the next problem - a piece of paper out of place on the table, or a bin nearing capacity. If only they knew in the time they spent scanning for things to get annoyed about, they could be relaxing, and then fix them all in one 10 minute span.

[asdfk]

I’m wondering how the older, married members have dealt with this kind of behavior by their spouse. How do they feel about this article and how have they dealt with this kind of emotions in their spouse?

[Scoundrel]

"My husband is a good man, and a good feminist ally."

In other words, he's a beta cuck and she has zero respect for him.

This has nothing to do with housework or her "emotional labor." She's gearing up to leave him.

But not quite yet. According to her blog, she has three small children, the youngest of which was born in June 2015.

As much as she hates and resents Mr. Good Feminist Ally, she needs his help, or at least benefits from having him around — for now. Once the kids are all past the really difficult poop/diapers/potty training/crying in the middle of the night/temper tantrum stage, she will almost certainly declare her independence, and give the yellow-latex-gloved middle finger to him and their marriage vows.

[Gimlet]

(10-04-2017 07:14 PM)asdfk Wrote:  

I’m wondering how the older, married members have dealt with this kind of behavior by their spouse. How do they feel about this article and how have they dealt with this kind of emotions in their spouse?

47 here, married, post just a bit and not about game.

You will never hear of this bullshit from your wife if you are what she needs and wants (not what she claims). Women want what my people call a Head. She wants the Head of her household and of her life. This woman works for a liberal NYC magazine, makes good money, married with children, yet is still miserable. Why? She has no Head. But she can't articulate that so she's doubling down. Pay no attention to that bullshit.

Look at this:
   

Her husband said, "All you have to do is ask" and she cries that she "should not have to..." She wants to be TOLD by her man, and he can't do it. She can't admit wanting to be told, "I am your man and here for you, tell me that you need my help" but she craves it. Her media brainwashing makes her ashamed to say something that will bond her to him. And he is brainwashed too. He should have backed her into the kitchen cabinets, pressed his dick against her and said, "Tell me you need my help since it is clear you do" anddon't relent.

Think of that and read this quote again:

   

They are both miserable because they are believing feminist bullshit.

There is no happier woman than one with a man she can proudly submit to. And a woman who can submit to her man is an equal and can control him as much as he can her. It's just different.

You gotta be that man.

[king bast]

(10-04-2017 07:14 PM)asdfk Wrote:  

I’m wondering how the older, married members have dealt with this kind of behavior by their spouse. How do they feel about this article and how have they dealt with this kind of emotions in their spouse?

My wife did this sort of thing when my kid(s) were very young.
I did what the typists husband did - treat her requests as though they were valid and logical, and try to "do more".

Readers of this forum will not be surprised to hear that this approach did not bear fruit, and no matter how much more you do, it would never be enough.

I have since found that the correct way to deal with this, is with mockery. These tantrums might arise every now and again, but I treat them the same way i treat my kids tantrums. They blow over swiftly, then we all have a chuckle about how silly she can be.

She might even have a valid argument that i dont do enough around the house, but she never even tries to have that fight. So long as youre not apologetic, you dont have to do shit. Shes quite happy to look after the house, she just doesnt always realise it.

[Conscious Pirate]

So, she's trying to justify the nagging women do to the world?

Allow me to justify the result. Domestic Violence (as women understand it).

Men don't nag, cause they know that other men will hit them for it. Women DO nag, cause they know they won't get hit, which is the only reason it works. It's just female aggression, war-of-attrition style. And fuck, does it work. And then they have license to create "movements" like Ban Bossy & He4She.

Learn to recognise nagging (you've been conditioned not to, & that "being there for her" means you have to take it) & call it out on every lizard & homo who employs it. You don't need to cause a fuss, or swear. Just don't let nagging off the hook & point out that repeating themselves is harming their cause in trying to get you to do something for them, whether legit or not. Then watch their head explode. Non-narcissists still have an idea of how nasty, debasing & self-erasing nagging is.

I have a strict rule about this now. If you have decided that you need to repeat yourself to me, I have decided that you are no longer someone who will enjoy any of my attention. Goes for males & females. Caveat: This only works if you are someone to whom integrity is key. And that particular virtue is decreasing in both males & females. The lowering of social trust (among other things) has brought with it the decline of integrity.

[placer]

It's standard etiquette here to quote an article we link to. Here's the archive link: https://archive.fo/WoIFc and here's the article text (I'm bolding so people can skim it):

Quote:

For Mother's Day I asked for one thing: a house cleaning service. Bathrooms and floors specifically, windows if the extra expense was reasonable. The gift, for me, was not so much in the cleaning itself but the fact that for once I would not be in charge of the household office work. I would not have to make the calls, get multiple quotes, research and vet each service, arrange payment and schedule the appointment. The real gift I wanted was to be relieved of the emotional labor of a single task that had been nagging at the back of my mind. The clean house would simply be a bonus.

My husband waited for me to change my mind to an "easier" gift than housecleaning, something he could one-click order on Amazon. Disappointed by my unwavering desire, the day before Mother's Day he called a single service, decided they were too expensive, and vowed to clean the bathrooms himself. He still gave me the choice, of course. He told me the high dollar amount of completing the cleaning services I requested (since I control the budget) and asked incredulously if I still wanted him to book it.

What I wanted was for him to ask friends on Facebook for a recommendation, call four or five more services, do the emotional labor I would have done if the job had fallen to me. I had wanted to hire out deep cleaning for a while, especially since my freelance work had picked up considerably. The reason I hadn’t done it yet was part guilt over not doing my housework, and an even larger part of not wanting to deal with the work of hiring a service. I knew exactly how exhausting it was going to be. That’s why I asked my husband to do it as a gift.

According to Dr. Michele Ramsey, Associate Professor of Communication Arts and Sciences at Penn State Berks, emotional labor is often conflated with problem solving. “The gendered assumption is that ‘men are the problem solvers because women are too emotional,’" she explains. "But who is really solving the bulk of the world's problems at home and in the office?” As the household manager for my husband and three kids, I’m fairly certain I know the answer. I was gifted a necklace for Mother's Day while my husband stole away to deep clean the bathrooms, leaving me to care for our children as the rest of the house fell into total disarray.

In his mind, he was doing the thing I had most wanted—giving me sparkling bathrooms without having to do it myself. Which is why he was frustrated when I ungratefully passed by, not looking at his handiwork as I put away his shoes, shirt and socks that had been left on the floor. I stumbled over the box of gift wrap he had pulled off a high shelf two days earlier and left in the center of our closet. In order to put it back, I had to get a kitchen chair and drag it into our closet so I could reach the shelf where it belonged.

“All you have to do is ask me to put it back,” he said, watching me struggle.

It was obvious that the box was in the way, that it needed to be put back. It would have been easy for him to just reach up and put it away, but instead he had stepped around it, willfully ignoring it for two days. It was up to me to tell him that he should put away something he got out in the first place.

“That’s the point,” I said, now in tears, “I don’t want to have to ask.”

The crying, the snapping at him—it all required damage control. I had to tell him how much I appreciated the bathroom cleaning, but perhaps he could do it another time (like when our kids were in bed). Then I tried to gingerly explain the concept of emotional labor: that I was the manager of the household, and that being manager was a lot of thankless work. Delegating work to other people, i.e. telling him to do something he should instinctively know to do, is exhausting. I tried to tell him that I noticed the box at least 20 times over the past two days. He had noticed it only when I was heaving it onto the top shelf instead of asking for help. The whole explanation took a lot of restraint.

Walking that fine line to keep the peace and not upset your partner is something women are taught to accept as their duty from an early age. “In general, we gender emotions in our society by continuing to reinforce the false idea that women are always, naturally and biologically able to feel, express, and manage our emotions better than men,” says Dr. Lisa Huebner, a sociologist of gender, who both publishes and teaches on the subject of emotional labor at West Chester University of Pennsylvania. “This is not to say that some individuals do not manage emotion better than others as part of their own individual personality, but I would argue that we still have no firm evidence that this ability is biologically determined by sex. At the same time (and I would argue because it is not a natural difference) we find all kinds of ways in society to ensure that girls and women are responsible for emotions and, then, men get a pass.”

My husband is a good man, and a good feminist ally. I could tell, as I walked him through it, that he was trying to grasp what I was getting at. But he didn’t. He said he’d try to do more cleaning around the house to help me out. He restated that all I ever needed to do was ask him for help, but therein lies the problem. I don't want to micromanage housework. I want a partner with equal initiative.

However, it’s not as easy as telling him that. My husband, despite his good nature and admirable intentions, still responds to criticism in a very patriarchal way. Forcing him to see emotional labor for the work it is feels like a personal attack on his character. If I were to point out random emotional labor duties I carry out—reminding him of his family’s birthdays, carrying in my head the entire school handbook and dietary guidelines for lunches, updating the calendar to include everyone’s schedules, asking his mother to babysit the kids when we go out, keeping track of what food and household items we are running low on, tidying everyone’s strewn about belongings, the unending hell that is laundry—he would take it as me saying, “Look at everything I’m doing that you’re not. You’re a bad person for ignoring me and not pulling your weight.”

Bearing the brunt of all this emotional labor in a household is frustrating. It’s the word I hear most commonly when talking to friends about the subject of all the behind-the-scenes work they do. It’s frustrating to be saddled with all of these responsibilities, no one to acknowledge the work you are doing, and no way to change it without a major confrontation.

“What bothers me the most about having any conversation around emotional labor is being seen as a nag,” says Kelly Burch, a freelance journalist who works primarily from home. “My partner feels irritated and defensive by the fact that I'm always pointing out what he's not doing. It shuts him down. I understand why it would be frustrating from his perspective, but I haven't figured out another way to make him aware of all the emotional and mental energy I'm spending to keep the house running.”

Even having a conversation about the imbalance of emotional labor becomes emotional labor. It gets to a point where I have to weigh the benefits of getting my husband to understand my frustration against the compounded emotional labor of doing so in a way that won’t end in us fighting. Usually I let it slide, reminding myself that I’m lucky to have a partner who willingly complies to any task I decide to assign to him. I know compared to many women, including female family members and friends, I have it so easy. My husband does a lot. He does dishes every night habitually. He often makes dinner. He will handle bedtime for the kids when I am working. If I ask him to take on extra chores, he will, without complaint. It feels greedy, at times, to want more from him.

Yet I find myself worrying about how the mental load bore almost exclusively by women translates into a deep gender inequality that is hard to shake on the personal level. It is difficult to model an egalitarian household for my children when it is clear that I am the household manager, tasked with delegating any and all household responsibilities, or taking on the full load myself. I can feel my sons and daughter watching our dynamic all the time, gleaning the roles for themselves as they grow older.

When I brush my daughter’s hair and elaborately braid it round the side of her scalp, I am doing the thing that is expected of me. When my husband brushes out tangles before bedtime, he needs his efforts noticed and congratulated—saying aloud in front of both me and her that it took him a whole 15 minutes. There are many small examples of where the work I normally do must be lauded when transferred to my husband. It seems like a small annoyance, but its significance looms larger.

My son will boast of his clean room and any other jobs he has done; my daughter will quietly put her clothes in the hamper and get dressed each day without being asked. They are six and four respectively. Unless I engage in this conversation on emotional labor and actively change the roles we inhabit, our children will do the same. They are already following in our footsteps; we are leading them toward the same imbalance.

“Children learn their communication patterns and gender roles (kids can recognize 'proper' gender behavior by age three) from a variety of people and institutions, but their parents are the ones that they, in theory, interact with the most,” notes Dr. Ramsey. So if we want to change the expectations of emotional labor for the next generation, it has to start at home. “For parents, this means making sure that one spouse does not do more of that type of labor than the other. Speaking in terms of how emotional labor is currently divided, girls will hopefully learn not to expect to have to do that labor and boys will hopefully learn not to expect females to do that labor for them. Children watching parents share that emotional labor will be more likely to be children who expect that labor to be shared in their own lives.”

I know it’s not going to be easy for either of us to tackle the splitting of emotional labor, nor do I ever expect it to be completely equitable. (I’ll admit that I probably enjoy certain types of emotional labor far more than my husband, like planning our meals and vacations.) I’m also more skilled at emotional labor on the whole because I’ve had my entire life to practice it. But if we’re lucky, he’s got a whole lot of life left to hone his emotional labor skills, and to change the course of our children’s future. Our sons can still learn to carry their own weight. Our daughter can learn to not carry others'.

This "emotional labor" notion which has become viral over the last couple of months is a variation of the old "you have to figure out what I want or I will get mad at you" manipulative game women like to play. If this guy had put the gift wrap away, the wife would have found something else to bitch about -- like complaining that he cooked using the wrong pan, or complaining that she couldn't find dishes because he didn't put them in the "correct" places when he last emptied the dishwasher.

The only way to win this game is to not play it: "If you don't stop this nonsense, I'm walking out the door and won't stay with you for a few days" Also: Why does he let her control his finances? Sure, a homemaker deserves an allowance from the husband, but he has a right to have his own money and buy things he wants to buy.

[Vill@in]

Quote:

My husband is a good man, and a good feminist ally.

Damn, what an oxymoron.

Pick one, faggot. You cannot be both.

[Chetthebaker]

I stumbled on this crock of shit the other day on the toilet. The guy who posted it on FB has never been married. But he "understands" what his female friends are talking about.

Back when the ROK meetups were set to happen last year, this same dude posted something to the effect of "who wants to go beat up rapists".

[Leonard D Neubache]

I've dealt with this on several occasions.

It stems from the standard mentality all women have that if someone isn't freaking out and creating a drama then they obviously have no gripes or grievances, and that they and only they bite their lip for the good of the relationship/family/society.

Quote:

Walking that fine line to keep the peace and not upset your partner is something women are taught to accept as their duty from an early age.

No, bitch. It's something that everyone is taught. The only reason you don't think that men do it is because our poker face is so much better than yours.

It should come as no surprise that these supposedly systemic issues tend to come up routinely every lunar cycle for women, and for men not at all.

Train your woman to recognise when her hormonal emotional rollercoaster is about to send her into a raving shit-fit. Tell her it's ok to just be upset. She doesn't need to invent some silly reason for it. If she has a reasonable IQ then most of the time she'll self-check her own bullshit after that particular coding sets in.

[Remington]

Quote:

Walking that fine line to keep the peace and not upset your partner is something women are taught to accept as their duty from an early age. “In general, we gender emotions in our society by continuing to reinforce the false idea that women are always, naturally and biologically able to feel, express, and manage our emotions better than men,” says Dr. Lisa Huebner, a sociologist of gender, who both publishes and teaches on the subject of emotional labor at West Chester University of Pennsylvania.

When have women ever been able to manage their emotions better than men?

Edit: This woman is a whiny bitch who gives herself way too much credit. Her "freelancing" job probably consists of doing a couple hours of work every couple days. Emotional labor like remembering birthdays? She is trying to make any excuse she can to make her feel more important.

[asdfk]

^how do you do this? How do you break it to her?

Off-topic: I’m constantly on mobile and there doesn’t seem to be a thank button in the mobile version of the site.. would have thanked above users with that button for their contribution

[Jetset]

Quote:

However, it’s not as easy as telling him that. My husband, despite his good nature and admirable intentions, still responds to criticism in a very patriarchal way.

By beating her mercilessly with closed fists?

Oh. By disagreeing with her.

I see.

Quote:

Bearing the brunt of all this emotional labor in a household is frustrating. It’s the word I hear most commonly when talking to friends about the subject of all the behind-the-scenes work they do. It’s frustrating to be saddled with all of these responsibilities, no one to acknowledge the work you are doing, and no way to change it without a major confrontation.

"Emotional labor" is a term that was coined by minimum wage serfs at McDonald's to justify demanding fifteen dollars an hour because they have to smile at strangers.

Soliciting quotes for housekeeping is not "emotional labor", it's just regular labor. Nearly everything else she listed can be done by an app for thirty bucks a year, and it's worth it, because time is money. Yes, keeping track of things is stressful. No, nobody thanks you for it. You just do it and shut up about it because avoiding all the terrible things that will happen if you don't? That is the reward. That's how adult life works. Being organized is a basic survival skill.

The "major confrontation" here should be divorce papers. Either one would be doing the other a favor.

[questor70]

Female hamster aside, I think the larger issue is how damn difficult it is for any two people (even same gender) to cohabitate without petty shit starting to feel like big shit. Think The Odd Couple.

You either have to be super compatible or have the mental discipline to really not sweat the small stuff. But what people tend to do instead is constantly complain which is nothing but an attempt to change the other person.

[Vill@in]

Quote:

For Mother's Day I asked for one thing

Quote:

...the fact that for once I would not be in charge of the household office work.

Quote:

I would not have to make the calls...

Quote:

The real gift I wanted

Quote:

I control the budget

Quote:

What I wanted was for him...

Quote:

I had wanted to hire...

Quote:

I knew exactly how...

Quote:

I’m fairly certain I know the answer

Quote:

I ungratefully passed by, not looking at his handiwork as I put away his shoes

Quote:

It was up to me to tell him...

Quote:

I don’t want to have to ask

Quote:

I had to tell him how much I appreciated...

Quote:

I don't want to micromanage housework. I want a partner with equal initiative.

Quote:

If I were to point out random emotional labor duties I carry out...

Quote:

...have a partner who willingly complies to any task I decide to assign to him...

Quote:

I have it so easy....[but] want more from him.

Quote:

it is clear that I am the household manager

Quote:

I can feel my sons and daughter watching...

Quote:

I am doing the thing that is expected of me

Quote:

Unless I engage in this conversation...

Probably missed a few, but the high concentrate of solipsism was making me go cross eyed.

[debeguiled]

"Ally" is another of those words that should go into the Grammar Nazi thread or the dust heap.

Somehow, suddenly, nationwide and maybe even globally, the definition changed as fast as Bruce became Kait, and everyone started acting like it was ever thus.

It used to mean an alliance for mutual benefits.

Now it means personal slave and whipping boy.

This is one of the ways they win, by changing definitions without warning, slipping shit by, and if no one nit picks, their definition becomes the new one.

Grammar Nazis save marriages.

[Ski pro]

(10-05-2017 08:58 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

I've dealt with this on several occasions.

It stems from the standard mentality all women have that if someone isn't freaking out and creating a drama then they obviously have no gripes or grievances, and that they and only they bite their lip for the good of the relationship/family/society.

Quote:

Walking that fine line to keep the peace and not upset your partner is something women are taught to accept as their duty from an early age.

No, bitch. It's something that everyone is taught. The only reason you don't think that men do it is because our poker face is so much better than yours.

It should come as no surprise that these supposedly systemic issues tend to come up routinely every lunar cycle for women, and for men not at all.

Train your woman to recognise when her hormonal emotional rollercoaster is about to send her into a raving shit-fit. Tell her it's ok to just be upset. She doesn't need to invent some silly reason for it. If she has a reasonable IQ then most of the time she'll self-check her own bullshit after that particular coding sets in.

^ this is gold

[augen sehen]

(10-05-2017 01:07 PM)debeguiled Wrote:  

"Ally" is another of those words that should go into the Grammar Nazi thread or the dust heap.

This is one of the ways they win, by changing definitions without warning, slipping shit by, and if no one nit picks, their definition becomes the new one.

She can't go around redefining words if English ain't her first language...

(insert black man tapping on forehead here)