[Tank_]

Jetset,
I see. I understand that perspective, so perhaps then can you reframe the scarcity mindset that comes up, in particular, could I really have any relationship?
1) I cannot get hot girls (consistently enough) due to my condition
2) With future plain (6s) girls that I date I am afraid,
a) I wouldn't be motivated to sleep with them and go through the first 6 months casual phase with them,
anf
B) if I do manage to get in an ltr with them, I would also have a lack of passion for them. As in, it seems certainly most girls want a man that loves them, and doesn't just treat her as "yeah I guess you'll do"

[Jetset]

(07-05-2017 09:38 AM)Tank_ Wrote:  

Jetset,
I see. I understand that perspective, so perhaps then can you reframe the scarcity mindset that comes up, in particular, could I really have any relationship?
1) I cannot get hot girls (consistently enough) due to my condition
2) With future plain (6s) girls that I date I am afraid,
a) I wouldn't be motivated to sleep with them and go through the first 6 months casual phase with them,
anf
B) if I do manage to get in an ltr with them, I would also have a lack of passion for them. As in, it seems certainly most girls want a man that loves them, and doesn't just treat her as "yeah I guess you'll do"

Here's a possible breakthrough for you, and I think it's pretty basic knowledge on this forum:

To the extent that this woman really shows a lot of evidence of wanting to be with you and trying to keep you, it's probably in part because you don't show a lot of passion for her.

You are an unsolved puzzle and she perceives the danger of losing you.

This is not what is making her unhappy and dramatic, but if she perceives that you are devoted and need her more than she needs you, you can expect that she will not try as hard. If anything, she may become more unhappy and dramatic, thinking that she is entitled to more from you and sensing that she can emotionally abuse you without the fear of losing you.

With that said, I think you are setting a false choice for yourself by imagining that your condition makes it impossible to game 8s.

[Tank_]

Oh, so it's not true that every woman wants love and lots of affection, some prefer an indefinite chase where they never feel like they are getting the guy?

In this case then why is she being dramatic? Some mental condition that makes her try to reel me in in some sense, even though it's not what she truly wants?

Are women really happy with loving a guy who doesn't love them back? It seems a bit strange you'd figure she would auto-reject for self-preservation.


How do you suppose it's a false choice? I don't know of any means other than those I have already tried, of improving my looks, game, and income, or any other component of smv

But I guess if it's true that there are 6s who are happy to be sweet and dote on a guy who would never love them or be all that attentive, I can understand then that this would be preferable to someone behaving like she is. I have to admit I am just not at all motivated to even sleep with new 6s if/once we break up, so I still fear a long time with no sex until I become lonely and horny enough to decide to go ahead with the plan of trying to screen for and build LTRs with women in my league.

[PapayaTapper]

Op

I see your age (31) but what is hers?

Are you in Chechia? Are you Czech?

Is she Czech?

[Tank_]

She is 29. I am western currently living in Czechia. She is also western currently living in Czechia (but we are not from the same country).

If it's relevsnt, despite her age she has zero interest in marriage or kids. I'm fairly mgtow about these things myself, and have no desire to even consider those things until the relevant laws change, among other reasons.

[Jetset]

(07-05-2017 10:26 AM)Tank_ Wrote:  

Oh, so it's not true that every woman wants love and lots of affection, some prefer an indefinite chase where they never feel like they are getting the guy?

It's a little more complicated than that, but sort of.

Men go to work and get paid in money. Women go to men and get paid in attention.

Why don't employers just give their employees big paychecks for doing nothing, or worse, for screwing up? If you give her the attention but she isn't performing in the relationship, what happens?

She screams and cries that she wants your attention, but if you give her attention for screaming and crying, what will she do? She'll scream and cry harder and more often, to get more attention. What would happen if you screamed and cried at work, demanding more money instead of showing them why you're worth it? Would they give you more money, or would they just tell you to get the fuck out?

When she demands attention in an undesirable way, dock her pay. Real-life example: my LTR got upset once in the parking lot at a restaurant. We were dressed up for a nice dinner and she started carrying on about how she doesn't think I really love her because some other guy did something for her friend that I haven't done.

Put yourself in my shoes. I have a few options here.

1) I can try to reason with her. I can point out that they never do half the things we do for each other, that they're the most dysfunctional couple we know, etc.

2) I can feel guilty and promise to give her everything she wants, hoping that she will be happy and see that I truly love her and not talk to me this way again, and then we go inside and I have a miserable evening eating an expensive steak I can't even enjoy while she enjoys her lobster.

3) I can laugh, start the engine, drive home, and go into my office and play Hearts of Iron. When she says "we need to talk", I can honestly tell her "no, we don't", because she's the one having a terrible, ruined evening over some nonsense, not me.

What did I do?

At first, I was pissed and tried #1. Then after about 30 seconds of this I came to my senses and drove her home without speaking to her. I picked up McDonald's. I asked her if she wanted anything. She didn't. Then I went into my office and left the door open while I ate and played video games. Sure enough, 15 minutes in, she's at the door. "We need to talk." "No, we don't."

An hour of her crying by herself later? "I know you're mad at me. I'm sorry. I felt like I was going crazy. I don't know why I acted like that. I'm really sorry."

"Good. I appreciate you apologizing. I'll be out later."

She played herself. I still fucked her after I was done pretending to be a World War II hero, because she was given enough time to realize that I really can walk away from her bullshit and that acting like that might mean that I go get laid somewhere else this weekend and she ends up with nothing. 'Dread Game' is real.

What happens if I try #2? I lose a bunch of money on a stressful night and teach her that she can do this anytime she wants and get rewarded for it? Absolutely not.

You give her love and attention for cooking your dinner and sucking your cock, not for being dramatic and unhappy.

[Tank_]

That makes sense, the proper way to train the girl with positive conditioning.
In your case her gripe was not very legitamite, but some cases the problems are caused by oversight on my part.
In that case when she complains, should I just tell her to calm down tell me what the problem is, take the appropriate step or apologize and then if the hysterics continue cut her off?

In terms of the relationship as a whole, is it a real problem if she loves and I don't (and am with her because it is the best I can do)?

[PapayaTapper]

(07-05-2017 10:50 AM)Tank_ Wrote:  

She is 29. I am western currently living in Czechia. She is also western currently living in Czechia (but we are not from the same country).

If it's relevsnt, despite her age she has zero interest in marriage or kids. I'm fairly mgtow about these things myself, and have no desire to even consider those things until the relevant laws change, among other reasons.

Ahhh I see

First of all if she is not interested in marriage or kids then what's the problem? You have no choice to make really. This relationship will end no matter you do or dont do. Youre 31 theres no way you will be together without kids when youre 41 and she's 39. Because at 41 you will still be able to get 20 something yo 6's without much problem (assuming you dont let yourself go and turn into a fat bald chode) This will end long before that


You rate yourself a 6 physically and are not "thrilled" with your current girl because she's also around a 6 and youve dated and are attracted to 7.5 and higher.

Do you look like a typical Czech guy? Ive spent a lot of time in CR. The girls there generally don't dig Czech guys. Your SMV can go up if they know youre not Czech.

If you do then as has been suggested you may need to travel somewhere where your SMV automatically goes up

[Jetset]

(07-05-2017 11:09 AM)Tank_ Wrote:  

In your case her gripe was not very legitamite, but some cases the problems are caused by oversight on my part.

I'll bet that 80% of the time you feel like this, she's just guilt-tripping you.

Quote:

In that case when she complains, should I just tell her to calm down tell me what the problem is, take the appropriate step or apologize and then if the hysterics continue cut her off?

If she's being hysterical, this is never your fault. People are 100% responsible for their choices in how they treat others. Even supposing that you are neglectful, ranting crazy bullshit at you is never, ever justified. It is abuse. If she were actually entitled to so much more and you were actually hurting her so badly that constant hysterics and argument were actually justified, she would have simply left you by now instead of spending the energy on this.

With that said, telling a woman to "calm down" never makes her calm down. I believe one guy in this community has a "20-second rule". If she has to be emotional, he gives her 20 seconds to get it out of her system, then firmly tells her he realizes she's upset, but that she's made her point and they'll discuss it tomorrow when they're both calm. If she keeps acting bloody-minded, he lets her do it by herself and goes off to do things he enjoys while she's miserable and angry. She has to learn that adopting a miserable, angry, and abusive mental state equals being alone, not getting affection and validation.

Quote:

In terms of the relationship as a whole, is it a real problem if she loves and I don't (and am with her because it is the best I can do)?

Probably. As I said, I think you're setting yourself up for failure by convincing yourself that you should settle and that this is "the best you can do". You don't even make it sound like you enjoy the relationship very much, so it sounds more like a self-esteem issue. Other people on this forum will tell you the same thing.

I genuinely believe that if you go bang a couple of other 6s, you're going to lose interest in cracking her misery code.

[Tank_]

Papaya,
That's a good point, her smv will decline faster than mine with age, so in 5 years time she will be a 6 and I can upgrade to 6.5, or in ten years time she will be a 5.5 and I can upgrade to a girl in between 6 and 6.5, or something of the sort.

In which case, though, how should I know when to end it, and also how do I motivate myself to approach girls in my league? I have a hard time making myself do that, I don't really enjoy casual sex with them, just ifwe get to know each other and we're sexually compatible then things can be ok.


I don't look czech. Physically I'm perhaps a low 7, average height, above average face, well built. But I have absolutely no charisma due to having aspergers, although among people with aspergers I've developed my social skills to a relatively high degree with self development and studying game. Still my game comes out to be a 5, averaging me to a 6.

I have travelled extensively, and have gamed throughout europe, anglosphere and even a bit in asia, some places I'm considered even a high 5, at best I am a low 7.

[Jetset]

(07-05-2017 11:42 AM)Tank_ Wrote:  

In which case, though, how should I know when to end it, and also how do I motivate myself to approach girls in my league? I have a hard time making myself do that, I don't really enjoy casual sex with them, just ifwe get to know each other and we're sexually compatible then things can be ok.

You can do anything you want, of course, but I'm not really totally clear on why you're even staying with her now.

You say she causes drama, stress, and fighting, and that you're with her because you want to be fair to her and because she really seems to want you. You say you and your friend both suspect that she is mentally ill. I don't hear where you say "she makes my life better".

If you imagine single life without a woman hassling you, does it actually sound worse than dealing with this woman's troubles? You surely have some zest for her that explains this.

[Tank_]

Jetset,
I see. Yes that does sound much better. Tell her I heard her and that we'll talk later when she is calm. I had a suspicion that I was inadvertantly conditioning her to behave this way, but feeling guilty due to my own faults, I didn't know the appropriate way to handle this.


Otherwise, of course I should have mentioned as such, but as the point of the post was to present what is wrong I didn't focus so much on the good aspects. When she is happy we have fun together and have good talks and discussions, she is a good kind person with strong values overall, the sex is good and she does whatever I like, and I generally enjoy when we are together and she is in good spirits.
Thus among 6s, she would be the best if she was always happy and pleasant.

I should mention that we did live togethet for 6 months, but because of the drama I had her move out and we are seeing whether things work better this way. Thus far admittedly it's not looking good. But I suspected this is partly because I do not love her.

Indeed if the drama does not disappear then finding a nice pleasant 6 would be the best course of action. I just don't like the thought as I am at least used to her but don't really like sleeping with random 6s, it's not that pleasureable or fun for me honestly. But I suppose that would be the mature choice, to just suck it up, break up with her, and try to make myself find a compatible 6 who is nice. That is, if she doesn't correct herself soon, especially with a better approach on my part.

[Conquistador]

Op, you're lucky to have been given some great advice. But I think that you need to gain a different perspective. There are tons of guys who can't even get a six, and here you are not happy by both having casual sex or being in a relationship with them. That said, would you mind posting pics of girls who you think are sixes, as well as girls that really attractive to you. You got me very curious as to your rankings/condition.

[Tank_]

Yes I know. That's part of the issue, is that I wish I wasn't so looks-obsessed and can be satisfied with other qualities, especially given that 6 is my league, so I am not really entitled to more.

A 6:

http://c8.alamy.com/comp/C3KDTX/attracti...C3KDTX.jpg


A low 7:

http://www.newhdwallpaper.in/wp-content/...lpaper.jpg

A 7.5:
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736...shirts.jpg

8:

http://thetango.net/wp-content/uploads/2...irl-01.jpg

[Tank_]

Seems like overall, best choice is to,
1) quash the drama with more proper conditioning and management. If it doesnt end soon then leave

2) once that is done, try to be happy with her while working hard to get money and status. If I manage to one day in however many years get money and status then I can try with some hot girls and see if that helped and go from there.
A) reason being that I have no other means left to improve smv, and I don't enjoy casual sex with girls in my league
B) with that, if she does calm down and the drama leaves, how can I cultivate love or at least some greater enjoyment for her for her other qualities, to enjoy her company better and have her feel more wanted as well?

[Tank_]

It seems the drama is at a temporary respite and I'm learning to have a better handle on it, thanks guys. I'll keep mindful to not dive in with her into stressful states. But by and large she's been entirely pleasant though the last several days.

In the meantime, what is your take on the other issue? If I'm stuck with an smv of a 6, how do I cultivate a proper appreciation for what I can get, as obviously it could be worse? Alternatively, how can I tell whether it's a real issue and it'd be better to be just be single, and spend my time acquiring cash rather than chasing women out of my league or being with women that don't inspire strong passion? Anyone have experience with this sort of thing?