[oldbeliever]

(07-05-2017 07:09 AM)blck Wrote:  

That's exactly why this thread has no meaning from the start: Guy who lead his own family does not care about the family of his wife.

Divorced parents, weak father, controlling family, all have no meaning. Sure you're right.

[blck]

(07-05-2017 08:32 AM)oldbeliever Wrote:  

(07-05-2017 07:09 AM)blck Wrote:  

That's exactly why this thread has no meaning from the start: Guy who lead his own family does not care about the family of his wife.

Divorced parents, weak father, controlling family, all have no meaning. Sure you're right.

Are you making excuses because of your unfortunate upbringing? Get your mindset on point before wanting to screen parents.

There is no way that you found RVF and get nothing out of it, divorced parents does not bind you to the same fate even if chart and poll say so, weak father and controlling family are way harder to part away from so I won't insult you by giving you advices on how to act, just one thing:
There are tons of advices for free here, from guys who fought anxiety or addiction to some who got troubles that would make you think twice about yours.

Lurk, Read, use the search function and read even more, separate the wheat from the chaff and report on what you experienced then I hope you'll come back to thank RVF

[oldbeliever]

(07-05-2017 10:58 AM)blck Wrote:  

(07-05-2017 08:32 AM)oldbeliever Wrote:  

(07-05-2017 07:09 AM)blck Wrote:  

That's exactly why this thread has no meaning from the start: Guy who lead his own family does not care about the family of his wife.

Divorced parents, weak father, controlling family, all have no meaning. Sure you're right.

Are you making excuses because of your unfortunate upbringing? Get your mindset on point before wanting to screen parents.

There is no way that you found RVF and get nothing out of it, divorced parents does not bind you to the same fate even if chart and poll say so, weak father and controlling family are way harder to part away from so I won't insult you by giving you advices on how to act, just one thing:
There are tons of advices for free here, from guys who fought anxiety or addiction to some who got troubles that would make you think twice about yours.

Lurk, Read, use the search function and read even more, separate the wheat from the chaff and report on what you experienced then I hope you'll come back to thank RVF

Seriously what?

(07-05-2017 08:32 AM)oldbeliever Wrote:  

Divorced parents, weak father, controlling family

of the woman.

What I learned from the forum is abundance mentality.
There is no reason to compromise for a woman with a bad family.

[rudebwoy]

So your going to wait to find a woman with the perfect parents! lol

Good luck with that.

[oldbeliever]

(07-05-2017 11:11 AM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

So your going to wait to find a woman with the perfect parents! lol

Good luck with that.

That is scarcity mindset.
Are married parents, normal families and strong fathers rare in your culture? I don't understand the hostility.

[blck]

My post was based on the thought that it was all about your parents...
Sorry for that, hope you'll find good girls who have good parents.

[chitown72]

Being married for 15yrs, I would say it makes it a lot easier if you do get along with her family. It doesn't really become intrusive though if you live far from her family and she is not totally dependent on their advices in life. I have a theory that once girls can no longer conveniently ask each other advice because they've all grown up and started their own families, some may not be able to think independently still so they turn to their parents for life advices sometimes.

Also just like maintaining frame and Alpha's generally doing better, you gotta be the same way with her parents. Once they see a weakness, they'll exploit it at a certain time. For example, my father in law used to bring some of his tools over and store them at our place because we had a bigger place. He only asked my wife for permission. One day I told her he has to get the OK from both of us first and the next time he came over, I spoke to him directly about this. This gave him the message that the house is both of ours and since then, he's respected that aspect and asks me directly on anything that may inconvenience us in any way. My $.02

[Disco_Volante]

Part of the reason I think marriage is a raw deal is her family will always view you as an outsider to one degree or another. At best they'll be neutral towards you, but if she starts acting up they'll throw you under the bus for her without hesitation. You're literally giving up freedom, property, children, for what? Cause when she was 21 you wanted to fuck her really badly? There's just no benefit for a man anymore it's quite a raw deal.

You're getting sucked into their frame and living by their rules. Qualifying yourself to them, qualifying yourself to her, and eventually a judge and attorney will skewer you anyways. What a horrible deal.

If you think you're now 'part of the family' to them then youre kidding yourself. They might be cordial but they probably don't give a fuck about you. I can't imagine putting up with all that shit throughout life reaching the ultimate conclusion you only did it because you wanted to fuck her when she was hot for maybe a 7 year period when she was young.

[rudebwoy]

(07-05-2017 11:22 AM)oldbeliever Wrote:  

(07-05-2017 11:11 AM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

So your going to wait to find a woman with the perfect parents! lol

Good luck with that.

That is scarcity mindset.
Are married parents, normal families and strong fathers rare in your culture? I don't understand the hostility.

Hardly scarcity, more like abundance.

I have dealt with loads of different kinds of women.

I was dating a girl who's parents lived in nice small community, her dad was the mayor and her mother a proud decent woman.

I did all kinds of depravity to this girl, which she encouraged and enjoyed.

On paper her parents alone would be model citizens and you would think the apple doesn't fall far from the tree, not the case in my 30 years plus of dating.

I will ignore the remark about culture, my parents have been together for more than 50 years.

[StrikeBack]

(07-04-2017 02:50 PM)General Mayhem Wrote:  

I will piggyback on the last post about having a girl that has successfully detached from her parents household. You don't want a girl who will follow her parents lead over yours. She should take her cues from you.

(07-05-2017 04:28 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

The first question is "is it relevant".

If you have a decent, functional set of parents yourself then the answer is no. The traditional approach is that the woman you take becomes a part of your family and hers can fuck off. There's only one thanksgiving. Not "we went to your family's last time so this year..."

I agree with these two gentlemen.

While you definitely need to screen her family (you want no history of crimes, drugs, abuses) you should not go too far like some here and practically describe the family you want to build with her e.g alpha father, unicorn mother, smart attractive successful children etc.

I basically screen my wife's family up to a point where I know they're basically decent small town people, and also all the older females on both sides of her family are slender and attractive.

After that, there remains only one question: "does she follow your lead?" Because if she doesn't (e.g she only follows the lead of her alpha father for example) then nothing matters.

Just before my wife met me, she successfully detached herself from the influence of her parents, because she specifically told them that she wanted to get married, and she wanted to follow her husband's lead instead of theirs. She only follows my lead now, and considers herself fully Mrs StrikeBack. She changed both her last name to mine and middle name to a name I gave her. Her family wanted her to go to university, then pursue a career and get famous in her field. She dropped out of uni for me because she wants to be my wife and mother of my children, not to be a career spinster with tons of debts.

She genuinely prefers spending time with my family than hers. Not that hers is bad, it's just that they're regular people with boring lives who don't do anything fun (think typical bluepilled Churchians), whereas mine always improve and do interesting stuff and she'd rather be around and be one of us. Her family are also rather intimidated by me and mine, because of this, which is to my advantage.

Language and words matter a lot here. While I use "her family" and "my family" here to help you understand, when my wife and I talk about this topic, it's always "our family" (meaning the StrikeBacks which obviously include her) and "the Wife'sMaidenNames" (meaning "her family", which do NOT include her).

I occasionally like us to spend holiday time with the Wife'sMaidenNames because they live in a beautiful little town near the beach, but there is no such thing as "we spent time with your family last year, this year we do mine" because as I've told her from day one, we do not follow the equality model for marriage, we follow the Biblical model where I'm the leader and she's the helper. She belongs to me and the House of StrikeBack, not the House of Wife'sMaidenName.

[J_Sway]

I mentioned in another thread how I have been involved in my wife's parents life since the first year we were dating. Biweekly visits, stay for the holidays, etc. Now, some of that is because of my location and the fact that I have no family here. The largest reason, though, is because it is something that I personally value, due to the way I was raised. It was necessary to me to be involved, not just for screening purposes, but because I needed to know these people had my back in case she flipped and started acting out of character. Part of them having my back is me knowing that we share similar values and that they wouldn't be feeding her nonsense behind my back.

Case in point:

I made it clear early on that there were some things that I wouldn't accept in the long-term outside of major catastrophes that were physically limiting. Proper diet, fitness, and an orderly living environment being top of the list and that work and business responsibilities would be no excuse for slacking. One day her mom starts asking the inevitable "when are you guys getting married" questions. I brushed her off the first few times because it wasnt any of her business and I didn't want to entertain her ideas of rushing my personal time table. Finally, one day during dinner she brought it up aging, and I turned to face her, with my wife sitting next to me, and said:

"I have specifically told her that there are requirements that must be met before I will consider signing anything pertaining to marriage, and she has not met any of those requirements yet. Namely eating well, exercising regularly, and making an effort to keep the home organized. Until she does that, there will be no marriage. I understand that she is a very smart, successful woman, but that does not excuse her from taking care of herself, which she is not very good at. Not only that, but by doing nothing and riding on the fact that she is naturally small and of relatively good health is simply squandering her potential future health and fitness. This is something I will not tolerate."

Mind you, I said this in Mandarin, so it was far less elegant and detailed.

As soon as I finished, her parents turned to her and lit into her with a fire I had only previously seen reserved for her younger brother. Soon after that, she signed up to a gym, hired a personal trainer, and started attending various other classes with her best friend. Likewise, she has become equally as fastidious as I am about keeping things clean and organized. After that conversation with her mother, her parents are now 100% on my side. They call me quite often to ask if I need anything, are always sending her home with food, medicine, and care packages specifically for me, and will often scold her if they get any hint that she may be acting inappropriately towards me.

She and her brother have a great relationship with their parents and because of the way they were raised and what they learned from their parents they also have very deep respect for them both as well. So for her to know that her parents have my back the way they do, and that when necessary I can and will use that to my advantage, it greatly reduces the amount of bullshit that I would have to manage.

Now, caveat emptor, they are Chinese, so there are a lot of cultural specifics to this dynamic that men who marry Western women will not run into or get by with. For me, personally, and especially living in China, there was no way I was commiting to anything long term here without knowing the woman's parents.

From my own experience, it's quite telling when all of the girls I fucked for fun had either dead or absentee parents and little to no contact with family, and the the ones I dated for any length of time had parents and family around. Both sides have their own dose of crazy, as all women do, but the ones with intact families that kept in contact were far more stable and reliable. No family is perfect, and there are many who are worse together than they would be apart, but those are the ones you should probably be avoiding anyway if you're considering something long term. In the end, regardless of your stance on whether or not a woman should keep in contact with her family after marriage, coming from a good strong family with good family values is never a bad thing and should be on the top of the list.

[speculator]

My grandpa used to tell me to choose a woman based on how she peels potatoes.

If she doesn't know how to, pump and dump that useless broad.

If she is wasteful and discards a lot of it, that means she will be wasteful with your money too.

If she is meticulous and seems like enjoying it, marry her. It is a good indication that her mother taught her how to properly do that and she will be like that in all aspects of her life.

Regarding parents, women are physical approximations of their mothers. If you like her mother's looks, she will be like that at that age. Never marry a girl whose mother constantly interrupts her father, NEVER.

Strict father is not a good indicator that her daughter will behave properly. On the contrary, I have seen many sluts who rebelled against their father/brother and fucked around to "teach" him a lesson. It is more important to observe how she talks about and treats her father. She will treat you exactly the same way.

[J_Sway]

(07-06-2017 01:17 AM)speculator Wrote:  

Never marry a girl whose mother constantly interrupts her father, NEVER.

This is one of those cultural things. I would generally avoid this specifically in Western society, but in China you would be extremely hard pressed to find ANYONE who doesn't interrupt, regardless of gender or family role. I've yet to pinpoint the precise reason for this problem, but, in general, you have to scream and interject just to even be heard. That's just a cultural fact of life here, but that's an entirely different topic best left for another thread.

What you'll often see, however, at least in my experience, is a separation of the genders during large family gatherings. Particularly in more traditional families. Whenever I go to my wife's hometown, the women will cook and prepare meals, serve the men at their table while they eat, drink, and chit chat, and then the women will slowly join the table after most of the discussion and drinking has wound down, then the men will disperse and the women will sit together, chat, and finish their meal, then clean up. In the overlapping discussion, though, it's a free-for-all shoutfest of everyone talking over everyone, male and female.

(07-06-2017 01:17 AM)speculator Wrote:  

It is more important to observe how she talks about and treats her father. She will treat you exactly the same way.

This, specifically, is very important. If her tone and her words when she talks about him as well as her actions when she's around him show respect and admiration, that's a very good sign.

[oldbeliever]

(07-06-2017 12:21 AM)StrikeBack Wrote:  

(07-04-2017 02:50 PM)General Mayhem Wrote:  

I will piggyback on the last post about having a girl that has successfully detached from her parents household. You don't want a girl who will follow her parents lead over yours. She should take her cues from you.

(07-05-2017 04:28 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

The first question is "is it relevant".

If you have a decent, functional set of parents yourself then the answer is no. The traditional approach is that the woman you take becomes a part of your family and hers can fuck off. There's only one thanksgiving. Not "we went to your family's last time so this year..."

I agree with these two gentlemen.

While you definitely need to screen her family (you want no history of crimes, drugs, abuses) you should not go too far like some here and practically describe the family you want to build with her e.g alpha father, unicorn mother, smart attractive successful children etc.

I basically screen my wife's family up to a point where I know they're basically decent small town people, and also all the older females on both sides of her family are slender and attractive.

After that, there remains only one question: "does she follow your lead?" Because if she doesn't (e.g she only follows the lead of her alpha father for example) then nothing matters.

Just before my wife met me, she successfully detached herself from the influence of her parents, because she specifically told them that she wanted to get married, and she wanted to follow her husband's lead instead of theirs. She only follows my lead now, and considers herself fully Mrs StrikeBack. She changed both her last name to mine and middle name to a name I gave her. Her family wanted her to go to university, then pursue a career and get famous in her field. She dropped out of uni for me because she wants to be my wife and mother of my children, not to be a career spinster with tons of debts.

She genuinely prefers spending time with my family than hers. Not that hers is bad, it's just that they're regular people with boring lives who don't do anything fun (think typical bluepilled Churchians), whereas mine always improve and do interesting stuff and she'd rather be around and be one of us. Her family are also rather intimidated by me and mine, because of this, which is to my advantage.

Language and words matter a lot here. While I use "her family" and "my family" here to help you understand, when my wife and I talk about this topic, it's always "our family" (meaning the StrikeBacks which obviously include her) and "the Wife'sMaidenNames" (meaning "her family", which do NOT include her).

I occasionally like us to spend holiday time with the Wife'sMaidenNames because they live in a beautiful little town near the beach, but there is no such thing as "we spent time with your family last year, this year we do mine" because as I've told her from day one, we do not follow the equality model for marriage, we follow the Biblical model where I'm the leader and she's the helper. She belongs to me and the House of StrikeBack, not the House of Wife'sMaidenName.

I read your "engagement story" and it's inspiring.

You remind me of some Asian ethnic group in Russia, where the woman moves to the husband's family house after the marriage, they give her a new name and she belongs to the new family. I wonder how to find a woman that agrees to these terms in the western world, without her friends that tell her how she would be oppressed and abused. You live in Australia, how do you keep those people from influencing her? Which church do you attend with her if at all?

[agskor]

(07-05-2017 07:12 AM)Jetset Wrote:  

She should be severing her own family ties

Nobody should be *severing* ties with one's family

[Jetset]

(07-06-2017 09:06 AM)agskor Wrote:  

(07-05-2017 07:12 AM)Jetset Wrote:  

She should be severing her own family ties

Nobody should be *severing* ties with one's family

I wrote that quickly, but that's what I meant to say by "to a reasonable degree", etc.

There's a reality that you do eventually sever your childhood ties to your family and form new, adult ties.

As a child, your parents get involved in influencing who you can date, when you do chores, where you aren't allowed to go because it's not safe, giving you instructions while you're driving, etc. These are parent-child bonds.

They do end. This happens independently as part of the maturation process, not at the encouragement of a spouse. In my view, if you marry someone who hasn't formed an adult relationship with their parents and siblings, you're marrying someone who can never truly form their own independent household.

Put another way, if my father tried to pull rank on me to tell me what needs to go on in my own household, my father would probably not be invited back to my home for some time. We're two adult men in the family with our own lives now. We consult each other and share information, but the old relationship of being a child under his roof was shed a long time ago.

[Baphomet]

(07-06-2017 09:06 AM)agskor Wrote:  

(07-05-2017 07:12 AM)Jetset Wrote:  

She should be severing her own family ties

Nobody should be *severing* ties with one's family

Absent some sort of truly egregious issues, I have to agree here. There is nothing alpha or Red Pill about taking a dump on one's family.

[agskor]

(07-06-2017 09:25 AM)Jetset Wrote:  

There's a reality that you do eventually sever your childhood ties to your family and form new, adult ties.

As a child, your parents get involved in influencing who you can date, when you do chores, where you aren't allowed to go because it's not safe, giving you instructions while you're driving, etc. These are parent-child bonds.

They do end.

I've never severed parent-child bonds with my parents and I can still - at 34 years old - curl up to my 68-year old mother as I remember doing myself when I was a child

But I certainly STRETCHED those bonds all the way out to independent adulthood so that today I can freely choose where to place myself on that spectrum

Your choice of a word - SEVERE - is reflective of your unresolved still conflictual family dynamics I reckon

[agskor]

(07-06-2017 09:30 AM)Baphomet Wrote:  

Absent some sort of truly egregious issues, I have to agree here. There is nothing alpha or Red Pill about taking a dump on one's family.

I'm actually a huge fan of taking huge dumps on shitty [pun intended] parts of my family exactly so that I could stay sane while NOT severing the ties

[Jetset]

(07-06-2017 09:30 AM)agskor Wrote:  

I've never severed parent-child bonds with my parents and I can still - at 34 years old - curl up to my 68-year old mother as I remember doing myself when I was a child

But I certainly STRETCHED those bonds all the way out to independent adulthood so that today I can freely choose where to place myself on that spectrum

Your choice of a word - SEVERE - is reflective of your unresolved still conflictual family dynamics I reckon

Does your 68-year-old mother tell you when it's time to clean your room? Does she still decide what you should eat to keep you healthy?

I agree that it's the wrong word, simply because it implies permanence and absolutism, that there won't be any further ties.

However, ties of affection and respect are just not the same as ties of authority, and I don't see them as the same ties from childhood to adulthood. At some point, there's a movement into another stage of life where the nature of those ties change in a very significant way.

Where the parent and child can't re-form those ties on an adult basis, I'd suggest that's where most of the conflicts in family dynamics come from. How many parents are estranged from their grown children because the grown child finally got fed up with unwanted interference in their career choices or the operation of their household?

[Baphomet]

(07-06-2017 09:25 AM)Jetset Wrote:  

(07-06-2017 09:06 AM)agskor Wrote:  

(07-05-2017 07:12 AM)Jetset Wrote:  

She should be severing her own family ties

Nobody should be *severing* ties with one's family

I wrote that quickly, but that's what I meant to say by "to a reasonable degree", etc.

There's a reality that you do eventually sever your childhood ties to your family and form new, adult ties.

As a child, your parents get involved in influencing who you can date, when you do chores, where you aren't allowed to go because it's not safe, giving you instructions while you're driving, etc. These are parent-child bonds.

They do end. This happens independently as part of the maturation process, not at the encouragement of a spouse. In my view, if you marry someone who hasn't formed an adult relationship with their parents and siblings, you're marrying someone who can never truly form their own independent household.

Put another way, if my father tried to pull rank on me to tell me what needs to go on in my own household, my father would probably not be invited back to my home for some time. We're two adult men in the family with our own lives now. We consult each other and share information, but the old relationship of being a child under his roof was shed a long time ago.

That is also known as "growing up." Becoming a functioning independent adult, has nothing to do with "severing" relations with family.

An "adult human" who still relies on their parents for all of their needs is merely an aged adolescent.

[agskor]

(07-06-2017 09:45 AM)Jetset Wrote:  

Does your 68-year-old mother tell you when it's time to clean your room? Does she still decide what you should eat to keep you healthy?

Yes and no. She still does that shit - less than before - but it doesn't faze me as much as before - I listen to her and still do my own thing which includes her input because I realized she has much less capacity/plasticity to change than me

Quote:

I agree that it's the wrong word, simply because it implies permanence and absolutism, that there won't be any further ties.

That's exactly what I was responding to

But

to be fair, many many many times in my life I did SEVERE ties with my family - or wished them dead - it just didn't last very long and was a part of a natural death-rebirth cycle-spiral

Quote:

Where the parent and child can't re-form those ties on an adult basis, I'd suggest that's where most of the conflicts in family dynamics come from. How many parents are estranged from their grown children because the grown child finally got fed up with unwanted interference in their career choices or the operation of their household?

And how many grown children who estranged their own parents choose a different set of [not necessarily incarnated] surrogate "parents"?

[Jetset]

(07-06-2017 09:48 AM)Baphomet Wrote:  

That is also known as "growing up." Becoming a functioning independent adult, has nothing to do with "severing" relations with family.

Which is literally what I said. A poster asked whether or not it was his job, as the husband, to "make" his wife break her childhood family ties and "start fresh".

I said that no, it is her role to "sever ties and set boundaries" to whatever degree is reasonable on her own, without his help, "as part of the maturing process without you getting involved".

I've been absolutely unambiguous that the word "sever" didn't correctly describe what I intended and don't need to justify it further, but it's also irrelevant to my point either way: don't marry an immature woman who has not figured out how to become emotionally independent of her parents or you're heading for a lifelong nightmare and an ugly divorce.

I've seen it from both sides, dating a woman who was overly influenced by her parents and whose parents expected me to respect their control over her, and also witnessing the aftermath of a woman marrying a man who failed to grow out of a manipulative child-like relationship with his mother.

This is a top priority item to screen the family for, and I was responding to a poster's apparent belief that it might be his job to try to "fix it" by cutting her family out of the picture. No, it's her job, and she failed. Find another bride.

[Jetset]

(07-06-2017 09:30 AM)agskor Wrote:  

Your choice of a word - SEVERE - is reflective of your unresolved still conflictual family dynamics I reckon

(07-06-2017 09:32 AM)agskor Wrote:  

I'm actually a huge fan of taking huge dumps on shitty [pun intended] parts of my family exactly so that I could stay sane while NOT severing the ties

(07-06-2017 10:05 AM)agskor Wrote:  

to be fair, many many many times in my life I did SEVERE ties with my family - or wished them dead - it just didn't last very long and was a part of a natural death-rebirth cycle-spiral

No offense, but I think you may be projecting your own "conflictual family dynamics" onto me.

[oldbeliever]

(07-06-2017 09:45 AM)Jetset Wrote:  

Where the parent and child can't re-form those ties on an adult basis, I'd suggest that's where most of the conflicts in family dynamics come from. How many parents are estranged from their grown children because the grown child finally got fed up with unwanted interference in their career choices or the operation of their household?

You are correct, but sometimes it's a cultural issue too. There are some nations that the parents are more controlling than others, like Jews, Greeks and other Mediterranean countries.