[redpillage]

Having participated off and on in various ongoing threads regarding the Islamization of Europe and the impact it is having on our own lives I would like to make a proposal that may deserve its own thread, as to not be drowned out in the daily noise of digesting the endless attacks against European natives.

All the heated topics that are being debated in these threads by passionate and politically engaged RVF members may be intellectually stimulating and perhaps to some extent somewhat emotionally rewarding. But let's be clear about this: in the end intellectual exchanges in a private forum will have zero impact on reality. In the time it took me to draft this post several thousands of additional ME migrants have most likely again been permitted into Europe, with hundreds of thousands more already waiting at the gates. Our own contemporaries are systematically being attacked and murdered, our children and women raped, our collective wealth intentionally depleted by a post modernist Marxist polity that is hell bound on destroying Western culture and any remaining national sovereignty. And it is all happening at an ever accelerating pace.

The never ending debate about what course of action could be taken are futile if in reality no single action can be taken without immediate personal and professional consequences. As such our exchanges are reminiscent of the band playing on the deck of the Titanic as it was in the process of sinking. None of what we say or propose in respect to halting the destruction of the West will have any impact on our respective realities. At the current pace in about 10 to 20 years there will be very little left of the West we all remember from our childhoods. Our very own culture, our system of law and justice, our world view, even our genetic heritage are all systematically being dismantled in front of our eyes. At the same time we are slowly being turned into the pariahs and scapegoats of tomorrow. Make no mistake, there will be blood, no matter what course of action we choose.

This much is clear to me now: The European culture war has been fought and won by the Marxist globalists in collaboration with Islam. They will eventually turn against each other and it will be important that we don't get caught in the crossfire and sacrifice ourselves or our children for the sake of collaborators who actively fought against us every step on the way.

Instead of mentally masturbating about defeating the globalists, unlimited immigration, or Islam I propose that we instead focus on on establishing a refuge in some place in the world from which we can operate from a position of strength. If we bind together and fight together we may be able to use our collective resources and abilities to salvage as much as possible of what remains of our own culture. The time has come to take action and this thread is dedicated to organizing our activities.

[Foolsgo1d]

European refuge has traditionally been the US and will continue to be so for some time. No refuge in the EU would allow a bunch of men and their families to exist with guns and a defense initiative counter to the EUs mandate. You're asking to be pole axed by showing yourselves to the people and entities who pull the strings. The best plan is to not show yourselves at all and quietly move.

In ages gone I'm sure a city or town that was hearing rumours of invaders had a few citizens clear out pronto and then othes followed. Once it was clear as day there was going to be a siege/invasion the rest of the people tried to follow.

Best be the trickle that goes un-noticed than a flood of people trying to get out of the same pipe.

[redpillage]

(06-10-2017 06:37 AM)Foolsgo1d Wrote:  

European refuge has traditionally been the US and will continue to be so for some time. No refuge in the EU would allow a bunch of men and their families to exist with guns and a defense initiative counter to the EUs mandate. You're asking to be pole axed by showing yourselves to the people and entities who pull the strings. The best plan is to not show yourselves at all and quietly move.

In ages gone I'm sure a city or town that was hearing rumours of invaders had a few citizens clear out pronto and then othes followed. Once it was clear as day there was going to be a siege/invasion the rest of the people tried to follow.

Best be the trickle that goes un-noticed than a flood of people trying to get out of the same pipe.

Agreed but at this point there isn't a single venue in the world except some parts of Eastern Europe that offers us a refuge that is compatible with our culture and we have control over. Sure, at this very moment the U.S. is a possible destination plus it still offers vast territory. But if you follow Jordan Peterson then you get an idea as to the extent of Marxist infiltration throughout U.S. universities. We won a battle with Trump but the U.S. culture war is only in its initial stages. Maybe you are correct in that a slow trickle allows people to find at least temporary refuge. But it also serves to disperse us in all directions, which directly plays into the hands of the globalists.

[Leonard D Neubache]

If you're planning on eventually fighting when the fighting starts then Eastern Europe, surely.

If you just want to stay the heck out of it then you're going to have to move to another continent.

[void]

Americas, Australia, Asia?

[SamuelBRoberts]

(06-10-2017 05:51 AM)redpillage Wrote:  

Instead of mentally masturbating about defeating the globalists, unlimited immigration, or Islam I propose that we instead focus on on establishing a refuge in some place in the world from which we can operate from a position of strength. If we bind together and fight together we may be able to use our collective resources and abilities to salvage as much as possible of what remains of our own culture. The time has come to take action and this thread is dedicated to organizing our activities.

Calling what other people talk about "mental masturbation" is another way of saying "stop talking about what you want to talk about! Talk about what I want to talk about!"

But, okay, if that's really what you want to do.

Some questions to start us off.
1.) Most of the users of this forum can't be arsed to go to the gym for a year and then go down to Columbia, where (If reports are to be believed) massive amounts of top-quality pussy are available to anyone who takes the time to learn the language, get in shape, and practice some game. How many of them will sign up to go to an all-male "refuge" with no economic opportunities and no women?

2.) Where will this refuge be that it is out of the reach of the "globalists", as you call them? As you may have noticed from the word, they're global. You can't buy up some countryside in Iowa, declare it the new kingdom of "Rooshtopia", and stop paying your taxes. The government will just come and arrest you.

3.) The record for politically motivated communities of the sort you're proposing is atrocious. "I'm sick of being bossed around by the man, I'm going to head out and start my own government!" isn't a new idea, it's one that been around for a long time. Almost all of them fail. Why will yours be different?

I can't help but notice that you have zero ideas in your initial post, even though you're the one who came up with the concept. Is this because if you tried to come up with any concrete plans to implement your idea, you'd quickly find it was unworkable?

(Also, this post is a dupe. Someone in the deep forum was proposing the same thing a month or so ago. Leonard metaphorically chopped up the original poster with one of those giant Crocodile-Dundee style knives, and I think he got too embarrassed to come back. But I can't find that thread either, so I really can't blame you for not finding it.)

[Blaster]

Don't underestimate the importance of spirited disagreements. That's how ideas get tested and improved. People read the ideas on this forum, then they can go out into the world or elsewhere on the internet and spread those ideas.

I made a minor thread about terrorism 4 days ago and since then it's had nearly 2,400 views. It looks like there's roughly 80 people reading RVF Politics & War on a Saturday.

That's not trivial. Of course it takes more than just RVF, but 3 years ago, did you ever imagine that Donald Trump would win the 2016 election on an anti-immigration platform?

[Leonard D Neubache]

Odd. I first read the last paragraph of the OP as a sort of "let's move to the same area and establish a loose sort of brotherhood" but I suppose on a second read it might be a bit more intense than that.

RP, you ought to give some specifics about what this "bind together, fight together and use our collective resources" actually entails.

If you're talking about setting up some sort of commune or militia then Sambro is pretty much correct. You can fight the globalists or hide from the globalists but you can't do both (and even then you can't hide from them, but merely make yourself irrelevant to them for a while).

I think what RP is feeling is what a lot of us are feeling. That an internet brotherhood just doesn't cut it. If you're not clinking beer bottles with the guys on your team then you're going to feel a deficiency in your life.

But if you move beyond you borders then you're only going to be more oppressed, not less. You become the foreigner. The one that's not only watched carefully but bereft of any moral high ground for holding to your ways.

For you Euroblokes the suggestion that was made elsewhere about purchasing a small property that could be used like a meeting place or a safehouse would be a great idea, since you guys can get around to different nations in the EU with little difficulty.

Find a spot in the based Eastern European nations, even if it's a dinky little apartment somewhere (you can always upgrade later).

It's far more sensible to start small and grow than to try and strap together some immense plan that's borderline impossible right off the bat.

Create a small club with a constitution and location (rented or bought). From there, anything is possible.

[Rocha]

A western european refuge will be the same as it was in the 8th century. Asturias, Galiza and Northern Portugal. Those lands will never be Islamic, believe me.

[Foolsgo1d]

@ Redpillage.

I've always stuck by the opinion that the US has a fight in it which will overcome marxism or at least make it back down - for now. You will not find that spirit in mainland Europe except the EE bloc but they have their own problems.

Eastern Europe will be betrayed in some form by the Western bloc and its sorr ass will be pulverised once more. If I was Polish I wouldn't trust either Russia or Western Europe one bit.

[redpillage]

I was about to respond to SamuelBRoberts but I think your thoughts are more to the point, less accusatory, and productive. Maybe my responses below will clarify whatever I may have left out:

(06-10-2017 10:06 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

Odd. I first read the last paragraph of the OP as a sort of "let's move to the same area and establish a loose sort of brotherhood" but I suppose on a second read it might be a bit more intense than that.

Not really 'more intense' but more general. First up I am not sure yet what the exact course of action would be and by suggesting one or two everyone would have focused on those particular venues/ideas. I intentionally kept it open so that members could exchange ideas and debate the merits of various locations.

(06-10-2017 10:06 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

RP, you ought to give some specifics about what this "bind together, fight together and use our collective resources" actually entails.

If you're talking about setting up some sort of commune or militia then Sambro is pretty much correct. You can fight the globalists or hide from the globalists but you can't do both (and even then you can't hide from them, but merely make yourself irrelevant to them for a while).

Absolutely not. Setting up a community in 'enemy territory' will simply draw negative attention and is almost guaranteed to fail. Rather I personally was considering locations in EE or SA that may provide us with sufficient cover and are also culturally compatible. Perhaps it's not one location but several. Fuck, I really don't know which exactly is the best path but at this point we're not taking any action except for sitting tight and biting our time.

(06-10-2017 10:06 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

I think what RP is feeling is what a lot of us are feeling. That an internet brotherhood just doesn't cut it. If you're not clinking beer bottles with the guys on your team then you're going to feel a deficiency in your life.

I've made this point before and gotten very little in response. Look at Muslim communities, how tightly nit they are and how they stick together, no matter what. If one of them gets jumped they all go out and take care of business. On our end we have been completely atomized. Our families are mostly tiny, and when push comes to shove our friends, our neighbors, our community is not there to help us out. When attacked or wronged we are told to rely on the police or the law, which clearly is not on our side.

(06-10-2017 10:06 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

But if you move beyond you borders then you're only going to be more oppressed, not less. You become the foreigner. The one that's not only watched carefully but bereft of any moral high ground for holding to your ways.

I've been a foreigner my whole life, lived in 5 countries over four decades. Never had a problem fitting in and connecting with the locals. Part of that of course is learning the language, another aspect is contributing to the local community. Of course it takes time and effort.

(06-10-2017 10:06 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

For you Euroblokes the suggestion that was made elsewhere about purchasing a small property that could be used like a meeting place or a safehouse would be a great idea, since you guys can get around to different nations in the EU with little difficulty.

Anywhere in W. Europe we would become a target very very quickly. If the authorities wouldn't find an excuse to take us down it may be the SJW brigade or some local branch of ISIS.

(06-10-2017 10:06 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

Find a spot in the based Eastern European nations, even if it's a dinky little apartment somewhere (you can always upgrade later).

It's far more sensible to start small and grow than to try and strap together some immense plan that's borderline impossible right off the bat.

Create a small club with a constitution and location (rented or bought). From there, anything is possible.

Maybe I didn't make myself very clear. It doesn't have to be one specific house or even village, I was more thinking along of the lines of a region where we are able to accumulate over time. A lot of Germans for example are moving to Hungary but of course they don't speak the language and never will as most of them are past or near the retirement age. That's not what I had in mind. We would be better served to find a place or a number of places that we know partially holds our values and which we can help defend as time progresses.

[redpillage]

(06-10-2017 12:20 PM)Rocha Wrote:  

A western european refuge will be the same as it was in the 8th century. Asturias, Galiza and Northern Portugal. Those lands will never be Islamic, believe me.

Not so sure because Catalunia isn't very far and those cats can't wait to import a legion of migrants as soon as they manage to declare independence from Spain (assuming they succeed of course).

[Parzival]

I live in a different country now, even when the language is similar. First of all I have no big social contacts here, I have no deeper knowledge about the local geographies. Don't know the deeper spots nor do I have a network of people that I know for long time and can trust. And this all by just be 350 km away from my original place.
What I notice, its big difference when you grow up in a place, with the local people. When you know the area, not only in your down and city but also around. This is the advantage we have. Those migrants are a mob in the big cities. They can bring fear and terror but they are not an organised force.
So the best advice is to keep under the radar, prepare and when shit get real call your friends, your neighbours. When you are smart you started be nice to them already. Then you have a local community you can trust more or less. At least they live there and more trustworthy then some strangers. In the worst case the migrant mobs are coming, so you have to face them. Or when you hide you know you area more then they do. When the Elites send the military, I'm sure there will be a civil unrest. European soldiers send to fight European citizens? For a mob of criminal migrants? I'm quite sure not all will follow the orders.

The only way to hurt the Elites in some way is, to move somewhere else and don't pay taxes to them. Then you are better of when you chose a place by our own, with a girl in a small town or so and not get involved in some kind of resistance group or political movement. The only way I can think of is this zone concept that left and right wing groups have. They have property - still in their own country - and get a community. Depends what you do how long you can stay under the radar.

[Elster]

The cats politically speaking have always been whining felines, of course this is just a general statement referring mostly to the vocal urban barcelonites.

I would say that in the rest of the spanish lands with differing levels, or at least in the smaller pueblos they wouldn't take too well.
The northern spaniards are a breed of their own as well, I wonder how they'd react. Then again, there's still based adult males that wouldnt take too kindly but you never know here...

[Uruz]

Finally some thread with real weight.

Obviously, there is just certain percentage of guys who travel, who hit the gym etc. even less of those that would take this post seriously.

You better think about something more local than "region", if you go with "Hey guys lets move to Upper Silesia and establish some "short" distance communities." it will not help you once hordes are roaming the countryside. 10km distance can be a problem once you got to organise defence.

If you do your research you can still find EE countries where you can buy WWII bunkers for $2k, semi-auto assault rifles, panzer military vehicles from 60-70'. I know guys who own bunkers (50-100 personnel) with two floors and tunnels connecting it to a different bunkers as well as guys who own 50 military vehicles from tanks to others (dysfunctional cannons, but functional otherwise and just for price per kg of the metal used.)

Personally I am already having plans with my closest circle of friends to settle down in one area, as close as we can, talking so we can block the road with our cars if we need to and close off the place.

If the money goes as it should I will buy some bug-out house in mountains this winter before I get to actual settling down.

Jack Donovan although being a faggot gives away some golden advice that everyone serious should follow.

You don't need to declare war against the government and if you don't do some pointless stupid shit people should leave you alone, I don't see a reason why it would be a problem to set up a community somewhere if you are not breaking laws, nobody will ask you what are stands of this community and nobody will give a shit if you don't give them reason to. We have done this since the beginning of the time.

[godzilla]

Theres a lot of empty land in North America and Austrailia. Find some of it. Buy some guns and create your own nation. The western governments fight wars overseas but I dont think they have the will to fight it at home.

[Uruz]

Shit you can legally buy in CZ for almost no money. (Besides president encouraged people to buy guns for upcoming "possible" islamist super-holocaust and as well recently rejected completely EU refugee quotas.)

vz. 58 - $400



Small Bunker, slightly pre-war. Hundreds if not thousands of those around most of the border, big ones available as well, but a lot of them already taken. $2.000



OT-SKOT 64 - panzer vehicle, should be able to take in from 4-12 men, depending what version, don't know the price but should be just for the price per kg of metal. Not with machine-guns, or just with dysfunctional ones. (you can still get the gunner tower.). Know a guy who has full parking lot of these. Suited for both water and land, around 90 km/h speed.

[Polniy_Sostav]

Interesting thread.
The best is to stay under the radar and get ready . I also suscribe to the theory that , when things go wrong , the first to fight each other will be the "leftists" and the "islamists".
A part of the Muslim radicals respect more traditional christians and people "with balls" than the leftists and the atheists.
Realistically , the poorest parts of East Europe (Belarus , Ukraine , Moldova , but also Poland , Hungary ) and most of South America won't be at war . Same goes for many asian countries and a few "islands" noone cares about.
But let's be sure that even Okinawa got bombed so there is no "Real " sure place.
I ve never been to "America" but I would guess the lands are so big there that for sure there might be some sort of "separatist" stronghold which will resist strongly.

[redpillage]

(06-10-2017 05:06 PM)Uruz Wrote:  

OT-SKOT 64 - panzer vehicle, should be able to take in from 4-12 men, depending what version, don't know the price but should be just for the price per kg of metal. Not with machine-guns, or just with dysfunctional ones. (you can still get the gunner tower.). Know a guy who has full parking lot of these. Suited for both water and land, around 90 km/h speed.

Damn I would have loved to have one of those back in my L.A. days when I was stuck on the 405 :-)

[911]

Or in South Central... But if you stick to the west side, you might want the convertible version.

This would pass El Mecanico's test for alpha wheels.

[BortimusPrime]

Here's my wall of text thoughts on this. It’s easier to think about how to go about things if you define your problems first.

1. Low western birthrates
2. Immigration of islamists and other savages
3. Western government inexorably slipping into marxist totalitarianism
4. Potential for economy to totally collapse

For starters any kind of violent or attention-drawing behavior is clearly worthless. As others on the forum have repeatedly pointed out, you aren’t going to change anything and you’ll just be paraded around by the media as proof of their narrative that alt-right people are all dangerous racist psychopaths. Muslims get away with violent political activism because they enjoy protection by the media which will excuse away everything they do, along with breeding rates, numbers, and moronic religious beliefs that make their individual lives sufficiently worthless.

Secondly, the alt-right online is pretty much just a circle jerk at this point between people who already more or less agree with each other. It’s certainly an enjoyable circle jerk, otherwise I wouldn’t be posting all the time, but we aren’t master propagandists and I would be genuinely surprised if a youth movement waving Pepe flags suddenly overthrew the government and established a thousand-year alt-reich. My point is that while keeping the subculture available to recruits is still a worthy endeavor, most people’s minds won’t be changed until 300 years after the fact when historians can use hindsight to explain why we were correct.

So this leaves us with the “enjoy the decline” strategy, the beauty of it being that it’s a pretty good solution for whatever combo of the above existential threats to civilization actually pan out. Just find a girl with nice big titties, move out into the sticks, collect a pile of guns, and start reproducing.

If there’s an economic collapse sufficient to neutralize government power, then you’re safely out in the food-producing part of the country with a bunch of gun wielding preppers. The welfare leeches will rapidly exhaust the resources of the cities and raid into the suburbs, but once they’re in rural areas they’ll have far less power than the organized militias guarding farming communities. City-dwellers are essentially parasites relying on resource production from rural areas, it just isn’t admitted to now because everyone has an ego interest in claiming that their job writing TPS reports or making lattes is somehow contributing to society.

If the government is able to hold itself together and slips into a totalitarian state that tries hitting rural areas with something like farm collectivization, it’s going to be a lot easier to just quietly slip into the woods. Easier than living in a city, likely with several tracking devices embedded in your body and possessions. One nice feature of totalitariansm is that once the state starts attacking the food producers, they only hasten their own self-destruction with mass famine.

Generally speaking, if you really believe that one way or another civilization is slipping into another dark age, the countryside is the place to be. Just look at the fall of the Roman Empire, the population collapse was primarily in urban areas where government no longer existed to support the infrastructure necessary to maintain concentrations of population. I can’t see any benefit in trying to migrate to a different country to ride out the collapse either, owing to the disadvantage of being a foreigner along with not being able to predict the future accurately enough to know which countries are truly fucked. Even if you were to guess that Europe is fucked from Muslims and the US is the place to be, it’s still entirely possible that the reverse might be the case. Europe might be more capable of a grassroots nationalist uprising that clears out the muzzies while the US manages to keep its globalist empire together in a dystopian hell society.

[YossariansRight]

(06-10-2017 06:53 PM)BortimusPrime Wrote:  

Here's my wall of text thoughts on this. It’s easier to think about how to go about things if you define your problems first.

1. Low western birthrates
2. Immigration of islamists and other savages
3. Western government inexorably slipping into marxist totalitarianism
4. Potential for economy to totally collapse

For starters any kind of violent or attention-drawing behavior is clearly worthless. As others on the forum have repeatedly pointed out, you aren’t going to change anything and you’ll just be paraded around by the media as proof of their narrative that alt-right people are all dangerous racist psychopaths. Muslims get away with violent political activism because they enjoy protection by the media which will excuse away everything they do, along with breeding rates, numbers, and moronic religious beliefs that make their individual lives sufficiently worthless.

Secondly, the alt-right online is pretty much just a circle jerk at this point between people who already more or less agree with each other. It’s certainly an enjoyable circle jerk, otherwise I wouldn’t be posting all the time, but we aren’t master propagandists and I would be genuinely surprised if a youth movement waving Pepe flags suddenly overthrew the government and established a thousand-year alt-reich. My point is that while keeping the subculture available to recruits is still a worthy endeavor, most people’s minds won’t be changed until 300 years after the fact when historians can use hindsight to explain why we were correct.

So this leaves us with the “enjoy the decline” strategy, the beauty of it being that it’s a pretty good solution for whatever combo of the above existential threats to civilization actually pan out. Just find a girl with nice big titties, move out into the sticks, collect a pile of guns, and start reproducing.

If there’s an economic collapse sufficient to neutralize government power, then you’re safely out in the food-producing part of the country with a bunch of gun wielding preppers. The welfare leeches will rapidly exhaust the resources of the cities and raid into the suburbs, but once they’re in rural areas they’ll have far less power than the organized militias guarding farming communities. City-dwellers are essentially parasites relying on resource production from rural areas, it just isn’t admitted to now because everyone has an ego interest in claiming that their job writing TPS reports or making lattes is somehow contributing to society.

If the government is able to hold itself together and slips into a totalitarian state that tries hitting rural areas with something like farm collectivization, it’s going to be a lot easier to just quietly slip into the woods. Easier than living in a city, likely with several tracking devices embedded in your body and possessions. One nice feature of totalitariansm is that once the state starts attacking the food producers, they only hasten their own self-destruction with mass famine.

Generally speaking, if you really believe that one way or another civilization is slipping into another dark age, the countryside is the place to be. Just look at the fall of the Roman Empire, the population collapse was primarily in urban areas where government no longer existed to support the infrastructure necessary to maintain concentrations of population. I can’t see any benefit in trying to migrate to a different country to ride out the collapse either, owing to the disadvantage of being a foreigner along with not being able to predict the future accurately enough to know which countries are truly fucked. Even if you were to guess that Europe is fucked from Muslims and the US is the place to be, it’s still entirely possible that the reverse might be the case. Europe might be more capable of a grassroots nationalist uprising that clears out the muzzies while the US manages to keep its globalist empire together in a dystopian hell society.

Nice post. It reminded me of the Spanish Civil War: The big cities were essentially starved.

[ProGambler]

I have pondered this question on a world scale.

Poland/Hungary are the obvious European answers but won't survive when sandwiched between Islamic Russia, Turk Balkans & the French Caliphate.
South America has no Islam problem but does have a low IQ/marxism problem.
Oriental Asia will never accept the white man as their own.
This leaves: Australia/New Zealand but the former is already a heavily socialist state with 2/3% muslims. Both have liberal gun laws however and have the means of food production.

[rhr]

(06-10-2017 09:02 PM)ProGambler Wrote:  

I have pondered this question on a world scale.

Poland/Hungary are the obvious European answers but won't survive when sandwiched between Islamic Russia, Turk Balkans & the French Caliphate.
South America has no Islam problem but does have a low IQ/marxism problem.
Oriental Asia will never accept the white man as their own.
This leaves: Australia/New Zealand but the former is already a heavily socialist state with 2/3% muslims. Both have liberal gun laws however and have the means of food production.

Australia and New Zealand are also Orwellian "Five Eyes" countries where your personal liberty might be at risk. [1] [2]

[1] https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/inter...n-economy/
[2] https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/world...australia/

And many more....

[Leonard D Neubache]

Unless you're happy with the state government doing random gun inspections on your property whenever they damn well feel like it, don't come to Australia.

Our gun laws are shit and getting worse by the year. My state just passed a new law that will require me to fit some sort of security system because I have "one or more" pistols.

Australia/NZ is the option if you want a sea between you and every other bastard in the world. Geographically speaking there's a reason we're a young nation. If things get ugly I have to worry about other Australians. A horde of Moors? Not so much.