[Chiosboy90]

Hi,

I need to get this out of my "heart" and need some answers from like minded people. A bit background: After a long therm relationship 1,5 years ago, i felt into deep, very dark depression after the women i thought was perfect for me, broke up. It hit me hard cause of reasons that would be too much to write. It took me about 8-9 months to fix the pieces of myself. In the process i find about the Red Pill, MGTOW and the rooshV forum. The first months i spend everyday on mgtow content. Hating women. They are all whores blah blah the typical MGTOW content. But i felt that this community isnt right for me. They all seem so unhappy and saying NO to women forever? Never for me. So the idea of being aware of the "nature" of women but still date (but no marrying and no kids) was good for me. I had some fun from Tinder, from real life and from Clubs the last half a year and realised, not giving a fuck was the trigger point. The less i care, the more interested it seems women are. Anyway, i met a very nice girl this February, but was in the same time fucking 2 others girls. My dick and the "i dont give a shit" attitude told me to stick with the hotter, but of course, i ended fucking only the crazy one. I needed to cut her off cause she was one huge red flag. Like a machine gun she spitted red flags. The other hot one now has a boyfriend with some beta after she swallowed my cum for weeks. Specialy the crazy one fucked my perception of women being nice and all romantic so hard up.. She was very nice to the outside world, even cried when we went to go watching "La La Land" and just hours later in my bed she tells me she was a camgirl for some weeks. And i see this more and more. Last Saturday i talked a bit with the barkeeper. She is realy my typ. Rocker girl with big titts. Asked for her number and she said: "I would like to give it to you but i have a boyfriend but i didnt see him for 3 weeks". The 3 weeks ending said to my brain that i still should push. Shes still into. So i pushed got her number. Texted a bit on sunday. Came out she do have a boyfriend but they broke up or going to. So we met this very day and we maked out and a bit more but no sex. She told me she "broke up" with her boyfriend because hes too short. No, not the dick, his height. I could have or had said in the past: "Why the fuck do you fucking breake up with a man because hes too short?" But then again i like having sex so i just said: "yeah women like tall men..cant blame". She will stay overnight tomorrow and i will hatefuck her brain out cause someone has to. I feel like shit sometimes when i hear all this storys. Maybe "game" isnt for me? Maybe i attract this kind of women cause i do push for sex very fast. Any guys here feel similiar? I was very nerdy and "romantic" all my life. Im still in some way romantic but gave that up cause i do like sex and the "i dont give a shit" attitude does that for me. But i feel like im paying a huge price here and hitting some mental "wall".

cheers

[Investment Bro]

Greetings, I know what you're going through.
It's the initial, bitter taste of the red pill, and the accompanying realization that many of your old ways aren't congruent with the way the world works. So it seems you have a conflict of the mind and of the heart. So I have two questions for you:

1: What is the outcome you want for yourself from game?
2: Who are you really?

The overarching method manosphere may seem to be the "I don't give a fuck" attitude, but if you really look into what the red pill is about, you'll realize that this isn't really the case. The whole point of game is to develop a method that works for you. You can still be a nerdy romantic, you just have to temper the detrimental tendencies associated with that. The mental wall you are experiencing is born of not being true to yourself. So let me ask again.

1: What is the outcome you want for yourself from game?
2: Who are you really?

Once you know the answer to those two questions, you will be able to find a method of game that suits your heart as much as it suits your head. Once you calibrate to that, the wall will be gone, and you'll be on fire, day and night.

[Chiosboy90]

(05-22-2017 09:11 PM)Investment Bro Wrote:  

Greetings, I know what you're going through.
It's the initial, bitter taste of the red pill, and the accompanying realization that many of your old ways aren't congruent with the way the world works. So it seems you have a conflict of the mind and of the heart. So I have two questions for you:

1: What is the outcome you want for yourself from game?
2: Who are you really?

The overarching method manosphere may seem to be the "I don't give a fuck" attitude, but if you really look into what the red pill is about, you'll realize that this isn't really the case. The whole point of game is to develop a method that works for you. You can still be a nerdy romantic, you just have to temper the detrimental tendencies associated with that. The mental wall you are experiencing is born of not being true to yourself. So let me ask again.

1: What is the outcome you want for yourself from game?
2: Who are you really?

Once you know the answer to those two questions, you will be able to find a method of game that suits your heart as much as it suits your head. Once you calibrate to that, the wall will be gone, and you'll be on fire, day and night.

Thanks for your reply.

I still do tell the girls im a bit nerdy and tell them in some way about loving to play games and my time when i was gamig profesionell. Mostly they think its cute. The romantic aspect i do very much surpress.
Like when i met this girl with her boyfriend (lol that sounds so wrong) i wanted to tell her how beautiful her eyes are as we stared at each other with big smiles, but then again i thought, it will end anyway soon so why bother being "nice"?

1.) My main goal was always to be in charge.
I do not care about 5 or 50 women i sleep per year. I do care about telling a women on the street or a concert etc that i find her cute and i want to know her better. To express this feelings. I do it so very rarely...its a shame. I hate the sexual marked and the thirst most men have. I want to get back the "power" in the dating marked. Thats my maingoal. Also to add, i would like to get out of Online Dating because it makes me "hate" women sometimes. But when i have real dates its always fun. I always have fun on dates. So get my ass into daygame more is a big goal.

That means, to have quality women in my life that i can have sex and enjoy their company. I do not like one night stands. I prefer short-therm/fuck buddy relationships way more. And i like to do nice things even with fuck buddys. I like to go for a walk and tell her she looks beautiful as we look into the sunset.

2.) I would say i have both very polaring side which girls realy like. One is the very dominate side. I learned to lead, to say what to do. But then again i have this romantic-sweet side with candles and shit.

[Dalaran1991]

Seen this plenty of time. Well-meaning, otherwise decent guys get broken, go into game in a revenge mode, fake it until they make it with the "IDGAF" attitude (despite them actually giving a fuck inside), get results.

Then realize the results aren't exactly what they are looking for, get even more confused than they were before.

Fortunately you are at the self/game aware phase, so plenty of time to fix this.

I read your post and I see immediately what's wrong: you are not running the game that fit your personality type.

Entry-level game (read: fake Asshole game) is simple and effective, but it's definitely not the best game and not the game to spend too much time in. It is designed as a shock tactic to shock beta nice guys out of their state. If you just use it as it is, which is what you are doing right now (suppressing the romantic side, using Tinder/ club, forcing yourself not to care, etc.), it will attract all the kinds of "wrong" women. This game is used to get SNL and get your feet wet.

You talk about wanting to be yourself. But in game "being yourself" is something you earn, and it comes after hardwork. You must earn the right to be romantic, to be yourself.

I advise switching to day game and try to get the less promiscuous girls. You will see that your current game might not be effective. then you will calibrate and learn how to deal with high quality women.

Good luck and dont give up. There's nothing wrong with game. It is perhaps the single most life changing skill a man can learn. But if you learn the skill wrong it will only hurt you more, not help.

[Chiosboy90]

(05-23-2017 08:59 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

Seen this plenty of time. Well-meaning, otherwise decent guys get broken, go into game in a revenge mode, fake it until they make it with the "IDGAF" attitude (despite them actually giving a fuck inside), get results.

Then realize the results aren't exactly what they are looking for, get even more confused than they were before.

Fortunately you are at the self/game aware phase, so plenty of time to fix this.

I read your post and I see immediately what's wrong: you are not running the game that fit your personality type.

Entry-level game (read: fake Asshole game) is simple and effective, but it's definitely not the best game and not the game to spend too much time in. It is designed as a shock tactic to shock beta nice guys out of their state. If you just use it as it is, which is what you are doing right now (suppressing the romantic side, using Tinder/ club, forcing yourself not to care, etc.), it will attract all the kinds of "wrong" women. This game is used to get SNL and get your feet wet.

You talk about wanting to be yourself. But in game "being yourself" is something you earn, and it comes after hardwork. You must earn the right to be romantic, to be yourself.

I advise switching to day game and try to get the less promiscuous girls. You will see that your current game might not be effective. then you will calibrate and learn how to deal with high quality women.

Good luck and dont give up. There's nothing wrong with game. It is perhaps the single most life changing skill a man can learn. But if you learn the skill wrong it will only hurt you more, not help.

Thanks!

So you think i should for the better good change into daygame and try to approach the "better" women to stay sane? What is a more healthy game then? roosh daybang (which i have on my phone) method?
Im very sure my current game will not work but im very motivated to calibrate that.

[Dalaran1991]

Yeah, go do the day bang program. You will get a lot of blowout but that's where you improve the most. Daygame actually forces you to be social and calibrated and not relying on alcohol or venues or such.

I say this presuming you are already good at night game. If not, keep doing a little bit of both. It's hard to do a 100% transfer to daygame anyway.

Also stop gaming for lay. Game to better understand women and love them, and love yourself. You were a MGTOW briefly so it affected your mental state, ie your bitterness residue that makes you question your game. Women sense this on a subsconscious level, and the sane ones stay away from you while the more toxic ones stick around.

[Skank_Hunt]

My highschool sweetheart has probably swallowed over a hundred loads of cum since we broke up.

I'm still in anger mode, but I don't think I'll ever get out because, the more I study and interact with women, the deeper the rabbit hole of pain and darkness gets.

I'm holding out on hope that it's just the Anglosphere, and the West, but I've done foreign sweet innocent church going family girls and I have still done the same things that make me disappointed for some reason. Why should it bother me if a load of white fluid from the penis of my or some other man's mouth enters another girl's mouth, and she swallows it? Why should it bother me if Hydrogen fuses into Helium?

I have banged nowhere near enough girls to justify this form of deep, dark, irreversible disdain. My clown game is getting worse because I just can't play the clown anymore. And even when I'm not the clown, I'm still acting like a lower level clown because I'm just speaking to her for her body.

[Chiosboy90]

(05-25-2017 02:47 AM)Skank_Hunt Wrote:  

My highschool sweetheart has probably swallowed over a hundred loads of cum since we broke up.

I'm still in anger mode, but I don't think I'll ever get out because, the more I study and interact with women, the deeper the rabbit hole of pain and darkness gets.

I'm holding out on hope that it's just the Anglosphere, and the West, but I've done foreign sweet innocent church going family girls and I have still done the same things that make me disappointed for some reason. Why should it bother me if a load of white fluid from the penis of my or some other man's mouth enters another girl's mouth, and she swallows it? Why should it bother me if Hydrogen fuses into Helium?

I have banged nowhere near enough girls to justify this form of deep, dark, irreversible disdain. My clown game is getting worse because I just can't play the clown anymore. And even when I'm not the clown, I'm still acting like a lower level clown because I'm just speaking to her for her body.

Speaking to HER BODY. It feels like that most of the time. Drinking beer, having silly conversations and then fuck xD. But sometimes i do get smart women but then i find out the whored around (ofc she did)
Its just that i can see all the red flags most men cant and imitiatly put her in the whore section. My date yesterday told me she was raised by her single mother (of course) and thats the biggest red flag you can have. I always feel dissapointed. Even when i know i will now get easy crazy/sex with a good looking women, why does it bother me so much that she probably banged 50 dudes in her short lifetime? If you go into the "normal" PUA scene, they tell you, you have double standards or this madonna whore complex (i guess that was the name for it) but i dont think i will ever be in peace with myself banign a women, that i know she was or still is a slut. At the same time i depend on them with my game. Specialy after the red pill and some fucking around, you hear beta simp storys that makes me angry. Co-worker is so in love with his overweight girlfriend that is also a single mother. He should feel sooooo lucky. I nearly pucked. Or you have sex with very sweet women that are crazy sexual. I think you should feel angry or have at least some feelings about that your highschool sweetheart, probably had a 3 some and jizz covered her hace. Who wouldnt? We grow up to think girls poop smells like flowers and they fall in love with you and stay loyal. Oh boy its different. Ill try to adjust my game to find a decent women.

[heavy]

The Madonna whore complex is very real, and the valley in between the two can be far more vast than you could ever imagine.

It can also be far more narrow than you could ever imagine.

It's purely situational. My brothers married great women who've produced kids, are great moms, stay at home and school them and prepare them for the real world. This is just an example, but the valley here is narrow. The mother-lover complex is so closely intertwined most wouldn't even consider it existing. Many women fall into situations like this where the Madonna-whore valley is nary the width of their vag.

But put women in dire circumstances where she had a terrible childhood or back in Viking days her village was slaughtered, and many women will naturally use their sexuality for survival and offspring. To illustrate the duplicitousness, these women will deny deny deny until the end.

Men use power for sex.
Women use sex for power.

Even the most conservative, "perfect" wife has turned down sex because she was mad at her husband. And she won't deny it.

Not sure if that helps, but you have to just enjoy the ride. If you need to go talk to a good psychologist. I know that's not popular around here, but it absolutely changed my life when I was going through my first terrible breakup (divorce).

[questor70]

(05-25-2017 10:51 AM)Chiosboy90 Wrote:  

I think you should feel angry or have at least some feelings about that your highschool sweetheart, probably had a 3 some and jizz covered her hace. Who wouldnt? We grow up to think girls poop smells like flowers and they fall in love with you and stay loyal. Oh boy its different.

You know the Jack Nicholson quote about women:

I think when men watch this clip they tend to gloss over the phrase "I think of a man".

Men desperately want to think of women as different from men, otherwise having sex with them will feel "gay". That's absolutely true physically (hence a preference for shaving off body hair, makeup, long hair, girly clothes) but ALSO psychologically.

We want them to give sex to us not just for them to get off, but as an expression of their love for us. The sex feels the best in that context whether or not we ourselves are in love with them. The more we feel that our number has just come up at the deli counter and we've got our brief moment and then we're out the door, it cheapens the experience.

I think whether we want to accept it or not, women are men trapped in a woman's body when it comes to basic physical sex drive. You know, the pleasure-principle. It's actually worse because women don't have to deal with a refractory period. Imagine having a part of your body that could serve up a heroin hit in a near constant neverending stream. That's what allows some women to get into the zone doing extreme shit like gangbang videos. Their total capacity for sex is far beyond what any man can match. Men's desire is ultimately constrained by their anatomy. All women need to do to enter into this hedonistic zone is shut off their slut shaming defense and be on the pill.

Of course, a lot of women don't know their bodies well enough to get into an orgasmic groove, but the potential is always there even in them.

[Skank_Hunt]

(05-25-2017 10:51 AM)Chiosboy90 Wrote:  

At the same time i depend on them with my game. Specialy after the red pill and some fucking around, you hear beta simp storys that makes me angry.

Co-worker is so in love with his overweight girlfriend that is also a single mother. He should feel sooooo lucky. I nearly pucked.

Or you have sex with very sweet women that are crazy sexual. I think you should feel angry or have at least some feelings about that your highschool sweetheart, probably had a 3 some and jizz covered her hace. Who wouldnt?

We grow up to think girls poop smells like flowers and they fall in love with you and stay loyal. Oh boy its different. Ill try to adjust my game to find a decent women.

We all depend on sluts, but we are pissed off that they are sluts in the first place? Well, every time I "waited" or "went slow", I got no sex. I only got sex when I was quick, and led well, like basic game guides say. Even after that it's hard to keep them because they have BFs mostly, which makes me feel even more disgusted. But our game is a response to the way they behave.

When I was younger and for me and the girls in those days (many virgins), sex was a bigger thing, and girls weren't as slutty, not raised by single mothers, not told Sex and the City cock carousel riding is good... then the girls allowed me more time to just CHILL OUT with them before we had sex. In my mind, there was never a huge timer ticking down until my chance of having sex with the girl ended. We would kiss but I would not be punished for not escalating to sex. I would not be flaked on for a second date, or third, or fourth. The girls were so much better quality I just enjoyed them and their company, sometimes sexual, sometimes hanging out.

Today, if you don't get a bang on a 1st date, you very often just do not hear from her again. Getting the bang for sluts is often so that chances of her sticking around will increase. If I could be more relaxed on dates, I would. But I know I have to get the bang, and organize it logistically in my head. Maybe I act relaxed like a Clown, but inside I know that I must execute my plan perfectly.

So with sluts there is the advantage of 1st date sex, but disadvantage that they are not loyal, they can disappear any time, and what they have done in the past is disgusting.

I don't think Psychologists can help because most of their shit is BP crap designed for women. Maybe consider moving to a more conservative country and try to find women who are less slutty, LTR material. Even then you will find she is very sexual, so you have to get a new LTR. But at least it's better than the west.

When you are getting success with 1st date bangs and more bangs than you ever got in your life in a short period of time, you are very happy in one way. But in another way, it completely destroys and reshapes your view of women, in a very negative light. Some of the stuff which I logically know my HS sweetheart has done, I don't want to see. I know it is true, but it would bother me a lot, even though I know it's true already. Before you get into the game you read RP stuff about how women are mostly sluts, but until you actually see it from experience, you never really know how deeply it affects you.

[Chiosboy90]

Quote:

We all depend on sluts, but we are pissed off that they are sluts in the first place? Well, every time I "waited" or "went slow", I got no sex. I only got sex when I was quick, and led well, like basic game guides say. Even after that it's hard to keep them because they have BFs mostly, which makes me feel even more disgusted. But our game is a response to the way they behave.

We do haha!

Quote:

When I was younger and for me and the girls in those days (many virgins), sex was a bigger thing, and girls weren't as slutty, not raised by single mothers, not told Sex and the City cock carousel riding is good... then the girls allowed me more time to just CHILL OUT with them before we had sex. In my mind, there was never a huge timer ticking down until my chance of having sex with the girl ended. We would kiss but I would not be punished for not escalating to sex. I would not be flaked on for a second date, or third, or fourth. The girls were so much better quality I just enjoyed them and their company, sometimes sexual, sometimes hanging out.

Dude i have a story for you. Last December after 2 month no sex strike, i had a date with a cute redhead rocker girl (she was reeeeealy my typ). We chated a lot and i actualy enjoyed writting with her. I wanted to "be myself" for fuck sake...at least once i thought. So, i asked her out for a metal party, was a fun night. We maked out and then i came to a crossroad in my head. The way i wanted to do was, asking the girl when her train is coming and escort her to the trainstation, give her a kiss and tell her how nice the evening was. BUT my "pua/roosh" whatever brain kicked in and I KNEW IT i wouldnt see her or/and she will be flaky as fuck BECAUSE good looking young girls (specialy in the metal scene trust me) have TONS of options so i pushed for sex with her. The next morning you wake up with a beauty in your bed and you smile at first, but also this bitter taste is there.

Quote:

Today, if you don't get a bang on a 1st date, you very often just do not hear from her again. Getting the bang for sluts is often so that chances of her sticking around will increase. If I could be more relaxed on dates, I would. But I know I have to get the bang, and organize it logistically in my head. Maybe I act relaxed like a Clown, but inside I know that I must execute my plan perfectly.

So fucking true.

Quote:

When you are getting success with 1st date bangs and more bangs than you ever got in your life in a short period of time, you are very happy in one way. But in another way, it completely destroys and reshapes your view of women, in a very negative light. Some of the stuff which I logically know my HS sweetheart has done, I don't want to see. I know it is true, but it would bother me a lot, even though I know it's true already. Before you get into the game you read RP stuff about how women are mostly sluts, but until you actually see it from experience, you never really know how deeply it affects you.

For me it was a very big shock (still is) cause i started bad with women and late and had 0 advice from a father or knowing friends that are good with women (most are pathetically bad)

My biggest shock was when i had a girl on friday, saturday and sunday at my place. spinning plates the right way. I had like 2-3 hours between to clean the apartment, fix myself up and change bed sheets lol. The shock was big because when i was like a teenager i thought just to have one girl, i would be so happy and in love and travel the world with her.

Appreciate your replys very much Skank_Hunt. Nice to know im not the only one with this feeling. I tried to talk on that topic with male friends but they tell me i should be fucking happy to finaly have lots of dates.

[Skank_Hunt]

(05-29-2017 09:46 AM)Chiosboy90 Wrote:  

Dude i have a story for you. Last December after 2 month no sex strike, i had a date with a cute redhead rocker girl (she was reeeeealy my typ). We chated a lot and i actualy enjoyed writting with her. I wanted to "be myself" for fuck sake...at least once i thought. So, i asked her out for a metal party, was a fun night. We maked out and then i came to a crossroad in my head. The way i wanted to do was, asking the girl when her train is coming and escort her to the trainstation, give her a kiss and tell her how nice the evening was. BUT my "pua/roosh" whatever brain kicked in and I KNEW IT i wouldnt see her or/and she will be flaky as fuck BECAUSE good looking young girls (specialy in the metal scene trust me) have TONS of options so i pushed for sex with her. The next morning you wake up with a beauty in your bed and you smile at first, but also this bitter taste is there.

I know exactly the feeling. I can tell you about 10 stories of the exact opposite. This is what made me reluctantly push for sex on the first date even with a girl who I thought would be a "good" girl and maybe we could just hang around a few times before just treating each other as living breathing sex toys.

I did the hard part, approached group of girls, disarmed a really bitchy looking hottie, spoke a bit to her friends, got to know a tourist from Oz, talked for an hour or so, she stayed with me despite her friends asking if she wanted to dance. I said let's get out of here so we left the club. Then on the street: the crossroads. Just ask her to come home with you to watch a film. On a previous girl I used "Let's go to my place to watch THE HOBBIT." If a girl leaves her friends, leaves a club with you alone, very likely she will go home with you, and the rest. But I just froze. A player I knew was outside the club, a 200+ guy, he was like why don't you take her home. I said I don't know. She was telling me shit about living in a small bush town in Oz and her father dying and shit, we were walking my arm around her. I couldn't do it. I know if she had come home I could have ejaculated on her face. Just everything.

Another girl was a massage therapist, young 19 yo, seemed very sweet, I didn't want to just fuck her meaningless and ejaculate on her face like 3 hours after meeting her. When I wouldn't take her home, she got impatient and left.

Another girl I did fuck and called her the next day, her BF answered the phone. Does he know my sperm is swimming around in his girls vagine? And I thought that girl was a decent girl as well. These hoes just don't have any responsibility or care for their own actions.

Another girl, pretty, feminine, blonde, lawyer doing a PhD, 24 yo, met at a friend's party, we were one street from my home and I just ghosted on her. I wanted to contact her later maybe when she wasn't drunk. Again, the next day, some BF was in the picture. If I had banged her good the first night, she probably would have stuck around.

Shit just moves so much faster these days, you have to have killer instinct on 1st meeting and go for it, doesn't matter how innocent the girl looks. I can't enjoy dates really because I am thinking logistics always. Can't enjoy 1st date bangs as much, I am disgusted in everything, most of the time I know there will be some sad beta BF wondering where his girl is.

It's not just bad for the beta BF, it's bad for the "player" because very often I just get used for sex. The girls put us in the "player" box and they won't throw away 2 year relationship, or they are ashamed how fast they had sex, so it's hard to keep them.

Quote:

For me it was a very big shock (still is) cause i started bad with women and late and had 0 advice from a father or knowing friends that are good with women (most are pathetically bad)

My biggest shock was when i had a girl on friday, saturday and sunday at my place. spinning plates the right way. I had like 2-3 hours between to clean the apartment, fix myself up and change bed sheets lol. The shock was big because when i was like a teenager i thought just to have one girl, i would be so happy and in love and travel the world with her.

I've only reached that point once and it was very brief. I couldn't keep up with the gaming. But yes: first girl is dripping wet already, then you make her squirt, bed sheets soaked, also maybe some blood and piss on them somehow from 5 hour long session. Next girl just finished her period so over time period blood on the sheets, now I looked for anything to change the sheets because I only had two.

Quote:

Appreciate your replys very much Skank_Hunt. Nice to know im not the only one with this feeling. I tried to talk on that topic with male friends but they tell me i should be fucking happy to finaly have lots of dates.

Yes you should be happy to have a lot of dates. Most of those guys get near nothing. That's why they're mad like "why the fuck is this guy complaining? What an ungrateful asshole."

Still they don't understand what it involves to fuck that many girls, the pain of talking to girls you don't like just to fuck them, and the disappointment in girls when you see so many of them and they all behave in such similar manner. So when your guy friends think "dates" and "sex" they think the blue pill kind of stuff, good quality dates, no pressure, and sex whenever you decide. But no: it's approach x 100 , get numbers/bring home, plan logistics, always pressure, 1 bang and sometimes she stays sometimes she goes back to her BF, so then you start to see what women are really like. Your friends don't know.

BTW congrats for doing so well in Switzerland. Not an easy place to game.

[Suits]

(05-25-2017 02:47 AM)Skank_Hunt Wrote:  

My highschool sweetheart has probably swallowed over a hundred loads of cum since we broke up.

Do you still have her phone number?