[Kid Twist]

Here's the issue with places like that now (and I've been to Spain several times) which sorta reinforces Baldrich's point, though that's not my aim here: They have all these traditions but [virtually] no one actually believes in them anymore. What does this mean or how does it work itself out? It has lost its aspects of what you would think would be a traditional society and that allure; now, it's just a modern country with essentially fake or quasi traditions and a socialist way of thinking in general and as a result, obviously with much less opportunity than the USA.

Basically, the way I see it, it's like the lameness of "St. Patrick's Day" for those celebrating in America. Get drunk, not understand who or what was St. Patrick, and be an idiot in a secular way. Given that reality, Baldrich seems to be choosing the USA and I can't blame him.

Now, I lament the loss of traditional living in the USA as well (this is my thought, not putting this on Baldy), and for that reason, I'm much more interested in people and travel to places like Colombia or EE, where they have character like old traditional places and not spoiled or salty people.

All in all, it seems that with muslim issues getting worse, the ECB with negative interest rates, and no one having kids, they're "solving" their own problems in the best way they know how (:

[MrRoundtree]

(06-05-2017 03:36 PM)Baldrich Wrote:  

(06-05-2017 12:20 PM)MrRoundtree Wrote:  

So can be the second amendment...explain me how well it served americans in the last 30 years?

It will be a freezing day in hell before Americans would ever repeal our right to bear arms. Thanks to gun ownership, I know that if some lunatic or undesirable ever dared step into my property, I'd blow his brains out.

How has NOT having gun ownership served Europeans? Oh right! You get trucks and vans rammed into pedestrians and have to wait like sissies for "the police" to come instead of having people prepared to defend themselves. Man, thanks for reminding me why I can't stand the European mentality of having no spine!

America is a country built on certain freedoms. If anyone doesn't like them, they can piss off back to Europe or whatever nanny state makes them happy.

I'm Canadian but whatever. Sure the second amendment helped prevent 9/11, the Boston marathon bombing or that killing spree in Orlando. We did have a few shooting recently (Polytechnique and the Mosquee thing this year + Dawson College) but nothing at the level of Europe or the USA yet, and they were from local people.

I have nothing against America, I think it's a fantastic country with a lot to offer but I found the argument of the Constitution a bit silly as it's quite outdated and, as you said, new amendments gets added or older ones repealed.

If you value an individual lifestyle, for sure, move to America. If it's better for your job then that's a very good argument to move back. As for me, it would make no sense to move there as my field of engineering is more valued in Europe and Canada.

I've experienced Spain and I agree in some way that it would be very tough for me to live there but the rest of Europe is very different than Spain.

[Baldrich]

Pointer Wrote:

"Much" wealthier ? You make it sound as if Europe as a whole is some sort of third world country. I recommend you this article:

http://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/artic...ed-states/

I have never said that Europe "as a whole" is third world. You can't compare PPP in Germany to PPP in Spain (which if you look it up is slightly above Kuwait). But in essence I am correct: the American people on the whole are wealthier than the average European. That article you post is of course written by a pro-EU hack - none other than Kalin Anev Janse, who is not a credible source if you look at his job description. I can't believe you would think that redistribution of wealth is anything to brag about. Sure, on social programs Europe has a lot more - BUT NOT SPAIN, mind you - in fact, Spain is the country that has one of the lowest government expenditures in the world for citizens. But even if all of Europe was as prosperous as the study claims, the reality is that the poor will be poorer, provided the rich were less rich...that way you will NEVER create the wealth that the US has. Just look at what the study says - at the end of the day, they would rather have poorer people, provided the rich have less and redistribute more. No wonder no sane businessman wants to pay taxes in Europe.

Americans on the whole though have much bigger homes, more cars, more appliances and far greater mobility than a typical "European" and especially a Spaniard. I can't speak too much for Germany, so there's that.

Europe's social programs are UNSUSTAINABLE sir. Look at all the budget cuts. Look at Greece! Do you really mean to tell me the average Greek is better off than the average American? Only the Nordic countries fare much better...but that is not Europe as a whole.

You say people spend their money on crap food and student loans. You can buy healthier food for good prices if you want, just as you can buy crap food in Europe. You make it sound as if all Europeans sit around eating gourmet food and caviar on a daily basis. Really? You know that's not the case.

Student loans? I'll give you that...but hey guess what? Student loans are the direct consequence of "we need to make college available for all", eg: SOCIALISM.

You say "I'd much rather live on a lower salary in Madrid than in the suburbs of some industrial American shithole."

Tell that to the thousands and thousands of young Spaniards who can't wait to get out of Spain and would rather live in a tiny rat filled apartment in London rather than being UNEMPLOYED in Madrid and living with "abuela". How sad that is. The reason you like Madrid is because you come with a FIRST world salary and of course the place is darn cheap for US! But that's not how the average Spaniard who gets paid nowadays, IF LUCKY, 900 euro net pay sees it. There is no f-ing way you can live well in Madrid for 1000 euros a month and that's if your single...because if you have a family, GOOD LUCK WITH THAT!

With regard to Americans living with their parents: Yes, we've seen an increase unfortunately among millenials. Lots of millenials are losers, let's face it. I DO SHAME most young men who can work and instead choose to live in Mom's basement playing video games. How can a manlet like that be respected? It's a big deal because it shows you depend off of your parents after you are an adult. No self-respecting parent would allow that. You know, years ago, parents used to FORCE their kids out or PAY UP if they decided to stay home. Our grandparents, one of the greatest generations to ever live, forced many of their children to pay up if they stayed at home past 18.

I have no respect for a man who can work and lives off of his parents.


You say: "In a society where the government doesn't provide free healthcare or education I also expect zero taxes. As far as I know in "free" America you still have to do your tax returns even if you no longer live there."

Again, you seem to think the government owes you a living. The government provides for public education - elementary and high school, defense and several other things. You can't have a completely tax free society. It's true that American citizens need to pay taxes no matter where they live: The United States is not a land of emigrants. You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave. You have the option if you really want to leave: GIVE UP your citizenship. Don't call yourself an American if you plan on living abroad reaping all the benefits of not paying taxes while others have to pay tax. It is based on the principle of equal obligations and dates to the Civil War.

Traditions can be important, but as others pointed out, they're just an excuse for drunken tourists to come and party. There is no more true tradition. As for knowing my neighbors, look...most people in the world can't offer much to others in the way of success. I have no interest in small talk and chit chat with my neighbors and would rather ignore them. That being said, not all of America is like that. We northeasterners are stand-offish...but if you go South or to the Midwest, neighbors are extremely chatty and do get to know you. There are even small towns in America where all people greet you or wave at you from their cars.

Anyway, as far as traditions, we have too many ethnicities in America to feel a big sense of cohesion and uniformity. How can a German-American identify with St. Patrick's Day parade or an Irish-American with the Puerto Rican Day parade, etc? Americans for the most part...well, we prefer to be left alone, safe in democracy, safe in freedom, armed and ready to defend our private property. That's more important to me than setting up some date to get drunk and act ridiculous.

[rudebwoy]

(06-05-2017 03:40 PM)Baldrich Wrote:  

(06-05-2017 03:16 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

The OP is returning home to America after being overseas, good for him.

I don't see why he feels the need to justify it and bash every country in Europe. Many countries are as diverse as America, which is far from perfect.

To say Spanish kids are annoying seems a bit silly to me, ALL kids are annoying if they aren't under parental control.

We can argue about healthcare, but to say Americans don't want it for free is wrong.
Didn't the politicians this past Election campaign to change Obamacare or revise it?
So the system is far from perfect and is a big issue for a lot of Americans. After all, 11% or 30 million Americans don't have health insurance.

Actually, if the last election showed you anything, was that people DO NOT WANT Obamacare. Lots of people don't have health insurance...that's nothing new. Again, tell me why we should be forced to pay for YOUR health issues? Why should doctors be paid less just so that everyone has access paid for by taxpayers? Stop saying healthcare is FREE...it is NOT free anywhere.

Spanish kids aren't just annoying - they are EXTREMELY rude and anyone who has taught in Spain knows that and again, even a Spanish person has admitted on this thread that Spanish kids are among the rudest you will ever encounter. How is that silly to say something that is the truth?

Why are so many people so butt hurt whenever anyone criticizes Spain? I don't see that happening about ANY other country here and there are threads open about Germany and many other places where people don't like the lifestyle. Aren't we adults here? Can't we just accept we don't always have to agree and that Spain is not a paradise? Bashing other countries? Man some people are so soft! Even on here! Later some people complain about political correctness but my goodness, it seems anything you say these days even among "men" gets you called out for being mean or bashing. Poo hoo. Rubeboy, stop being so soft! I have noticed you Brits are extremely politically correct and nothing can be said anymore without the thought police accusing you of either "bashing" or "hate speech", etc. In the US we have the 1st Amendment. No, we are not perfect...but if you value liberty, it is still much better than any European country when it comes to protecting individual expression and right to bear arms. That's an objective fact.

To be honest with you, the one thing I miss about the UK is the fact it isn't PC at all. Working there with fellow men exchanging jabs and sharing a pint at the end of the day, was very refreshing.

PC culture in Canada is beyond annoying and that has been imported from down south, I am sure.

Say anything bad about America and they get really defensive, you and others are clear example of this.

Just so we are clear, I don't give a toss about Spaniards.

[worldwidetraveler]

(06-05-2017 05:27 PM)MrRoundtree Wrote:  

Sure the second amendment helped prevent 9/11 (no gun zone), the Boston marathon bombing (let's not be pedantic thinking guns will stop people from planting bombs) or that killing spree in Orlando (gun free zone).

Added comments in bold.

"12 Times Mass Shootings Were Stopped by Good Guys With Guns"
http://controversialtimes.com/issues/con...with-guns/

[Biologist]

There isn't any point bickering about which continent is better to live in (US or Europe). There are advantages and disadvantages in both places for everyone.

Just pick a place that works for you, taking into consideration stacking cash, comfort and your sex/dating life. This will vary a lot depending on how old you are, your personal circumstances and what your goals are.

[TigerMandingo]

(06-05-2017 06:04 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

PC culture in Canada is beyond annoying and that has been imported from down south, I am sure.

Say anything bad about America and they get really defensive, you and others are clear example of this.

That's why I like to read the Happier Abroad forum for criticism of the Anglosphere, and specifically the US. You're right that you're not gonna get that here, too many dudes with sticks up their butt.

[Bycicleguy]

(06-04-2017 03:51 PM)Baldrich Wrote:  

Pointer Wrote:

The US countryside is the perfect setting for a horror movie: isolated, depressing, old wooden houses, boring people. There are no interesting traditions, no special events, no reason to stick around. In Europe it's easy to hop into your car and spend a weekend in a historic, beautiful village 300km away. Good luck finding that in the US.

I don't really care about traditions - they bore me and in fact every time there is a holiday in Spain because of those "traditions" all supermarkets and shops close as well as offices and you can't get shit done. I hate that and it is a massive inconvenience. I LOVE the fact that the US countryside is scary as you say. I have a beautiful Victorian mansion in the countryside and wouldn't trade it for a mini euro apartment of cinder block that is like a cold cave in the winter and depressing gray euro buildings. Boring people? What's so "fun" about European people? What's so fun about doing the same crappy tradition year after year and going home to mama EVERY SUNDAY to eat paella as so many Spanish people do? You call that fun?? You can hop into your car and go to many interesting places in the US. Ever heard of road trips? It's an American thing actually...since most Spanish people (and other Europeans) don't even ever get out of their village and have no interest in doing so. I've met tons of Spaniards who even live in Madrid and have NEVER ONCE been to the Prado. Now that's f-ing boring as hell! No creativity here at all, no imagination, no ENTREPRENEURSHIP...what's so interesting and fun about that?

Ok, I was with you at the begining because I understand a lot from where are you coming from.

There are always things that frustrate you when you are living on a place that is not yours, a lot of people underestimate how hard is to really ingran yourself into a different cuture.

I'm from southern european heritage, I would love to live in Spain because of the food, cheap lifestyle with first world amenities and proximity to interesting locations.

Some of the biggest douches I have met are mediterranean people. I found their chauvinism very annoying, for them there are no better place than their respective countries, it is really weird for me the pride they have for places that are falling apart. Especially I always had that feeling that the Portuguese think they are so much better than us, though they are not very relevant to the world.

Still, there is another country that produces a huge amount of annoying people, the USA.

I have talked with this kind of guys a lot, they live in a place, they isolate themselves to their English speaking communities or they might speak the language but they don't really try to understand the local people because they think they are so much better, so they just keep getting bitter, is not so different from the Muslim immigrants if you think about it but at least North Americans don't just explode.

Really, dude... you are mad and you think people are mediocre because they go to eat paella to their mom's or grandma's house, I'm going to tell you something that I think most southern European people understand, when you are in a truly fucked up situation the only ones who will love you no matter what are probably your mom and your grandma, why the hell wouldn't you want to spend at least your Sundays with them?

I have seen in American media they call guys who care for their mothers "mama boys". That my friend is everything that is wrong with American culture, you guys put your parents on nursing homes to keep them away so you can focus on being corporate drones, then you complain about how soulless and traditionless the contemporary world is when you just said you don't give a fuck about visiting historical towns or just use your free time to eat good food and enjoy life with your loved ones and instead prefer to have good bureaucracy or to be working I don't know how many hours a week. You guys complain about how selfish and entitled millennials are but it isn't hard to see where they got it from.

(06-05-2017 04:35 PM)Kid Twist Wrote:  

Here's the issue with places like that now (and I've been to Spain several times) which sorta reinforces Baldrich's point, though that's not my aim here: They have all these traditions but [virtually] no one actually believes in them anymore. What does this mean or how does it work itself out? It has lost its aspects of what you would think would be a traditional society and that allure; now, it's just a modern country with essentially fake or quasi traditions and a socialist way of thinking in general and as a result, obviously with much less opportunity than the USA.

Basically, the way I see it, it's like the lameness of "St. Patrick's Day" for those celebrating in America. Get drunk, not understand who or what was St. Patrick, and be an idiot in a secular way. Given that reality, Baldrich seems to be choosing the USA and I can't blame him.

Now, I lament the loss of traditional living in the USA as well (this is my thought, not putting this on Baldy), and for that reason, I'm much more interested in people and travel to places like Colombia or EE, where they have character like old traditional places and not spoiled or salty people.

All in all, it seems that with muslim issues getting worse, the ECB with negative interest rates, and no one having kids, they're "solving" their own problems in the best way they know how (:

I don't know about Eastern Europe but I have spent enough time in Colombia to figure some things. If you think Colombia is a place where "they understand their traditions" and that is what you seek then you probably are not going to like it either. Colombia (and Latin American countries in general) is a "Catholic" place. Narcos and criminal pray to God for protection before they go on a killing spree, and average citizens don't eat meat on the Holy week, but of course, they don't mind to commit every kind of sin all the rest of the year. Still, I think there is exceptional people everywhere.

[Baldrich]

Bycicleguy Wrote:

Ok, I was with you at the begining because I understand a lot from where are you coming from.


I'm from southern european heritage, I would love to live in Spain because of the food, cheap lifestyle with first world amenities and proximity to interesting locations.

I just don't understand how anyone can choose to live in a place because of "the food" when NOWADAYS especially, it's not really difficult to make your own dishes wherever you may be. Like, I don't need to be in Spain to make a paella (assuming I really loved the food).

The lifestyle is certainly cheap, but don't expect quality in anything or service. So yeah, I mean...if you're "average" to low income it is cheaper in Spain, but if you are ambitious and want a high quality job or top notch salaries, etc, don't even bother to come here. That's what I've been saying from the beginning.

And excuse me but I actually SPEAK FLUENT SPANISH...I don't know how many times I have to repeat that and have lived AMONG Spaniards, not in any English speaking community. Bitter? Wow. I am actually very happy that I've ALWAYS been able to get my way when I really want something. There's a difference between bitter and TELLING IT LIKE IT IS. I'm a man of means. If I were truly bitter, I wouldn't have stayed here so long. I'm not a masochist. But there does come a time in life when you realize you need to move on and you outgrow smaller places. That's exactly why the most successful Spaniards, and believe me I've met many, all either live abroad or would ask me (if they were the top bosses in a company), "what the hell are you doing here, this place sucks"? So even smart, successful, wealthy educated Spaniards say EXACTLY the same things I am saying. Every time I've told other Spanish people of my decision to leave, most of them applaud me and say "I wish I could go with you, Spain has no future". That's a fact. You do get your pro-europeanist loser from time to time, but hey, we have losers in every country.

You keep saying I'm mad when I enjoy my life on a daily basis.

You say: "I think most southern European people understand, when you are in a truly fucked up situation the only ones who will love you no matter what are probably your mom and your grandma, why the hell wouldn't you want to spend at least your Sundays with them?"

Ridiculous. It varies by individual. Why would I want to spend MY Sundays with people who may not have something of value to offer me? Most families don't add any additional wisdom and part of the reason why you see so much mediocrity in Southern Europe is due to that culture of extended family. It doesn't make me mad at all...it just confuses me as to why anyone would always want to spend their Sundays with ALL their extended family. You know why? FAMILY SOCIAL PRESSURE. A LOT of people, if they had their way, would NOT do it but since Spain is very much a country of keeping up appearances and not pissing off the social order, well, that's what you get.

The Anglo-Saxon world, by contrast, has at most been about the nuclear family...and that's it. You know why? Because the concept of freedom has long been ingrained for centuries upon centuries.

Most people in Catholic origin countries are indoctrinated with the "familia" belief...it reminds me of the mafia: you can never escape it. Why should someone automatically love their family if a member hasn't earned it or has nothing to offer you? There are family members who in fact are detrimental to our development and betterment as individuals. We don't choose our family, so it is rare that we would really like and love all of them. In fact, the more "third world" a country is, the more the dependence on the tribe and/or "family".

I don't know where you get that I want to have a "good bureaucracy or work x hours per week"...the only people clamoring for more bureaucracy and minimum hour work week bs are the Euro socialist types. Nobody should take seriously what a wine-sipping cheese-eating effeminate Macron type has to say.

[Elster]

[apolis]

Reading such low quality threads like this one, of a guy who spent 10 years in Spain and now crying like a little girl about the lost time, I'm thinking that 'The tribulations of 4 days spent in Kiev' by Perception Theory is probably the best thread I have read over the last 2 years. And Rob's Helsinki adventures. Most entertaining threads, although nobody got laid.

[Baldrich]

(06-07-2017 02:49 PM)apolis Wrote:  

Reading such low quality threads like this one, by a guy who spent 10 years in Spain and now cries like a little girl about the lost time, I'm thinking that 'The tribulations of 4 days spent in Kiev' by Perception Theory is probably the best thread I have read over the last 2 years. And Rob's Helsinki adventures. Most entertaining threads, although nobody got laid.

That's not the opinion of most people who have gotten something positive out of this thread. Crying? You guys are repetitive...I'm yawning. What a waste of time.

[Malone]

[Baldrich]

Good to see Spain has such a cult following...reinforces all my earlier points. The pro-Spain fanaticism of some people is truly astonishing.

[britchard]

(06-07-2017 03:03 PM)Baldrich Wrote:  

Good to see Spain has such a cult following...reinforces all my earlier points. The pro-Spain fanaticism of some people is truly astonishing.

As opposed to the US is the best cult?

[Baldrich]

(06-07-2017 03:36 PM)britchard Wrote:  

(06-07-2017 03:03 PM)Baldrich Wrote:  

Good to see Spain has such a cult following...reinforces all my earlier points. The pro-Spain fanaticism of some people is truly astonishing.

As opposed to the US is the best cult?

I know of no such cult...I do know that the US is better than Europe for successfully minded people.

[GlobalMan]

Baldrich, this is your third "Thoughts on Spain" thread, and one of them is identical to this one.

The same thing has happened here as happened elsewhere- you see every comment as if it is a battle in court room, and you must refute and deny any other reasoned and experienced outlook or conclusion. And in doing this there is a sort of deficit of social awareness.

I don't even disagree with you, necessarily, on the main thrust of your ideas. In fact, I believe that in one of the copies of this thread I was defending you to some degree.

But at this point it is looking like there is some truth to what some are saying- there's a twinge of bitterness and frustrated regret. And perhaps those are not entirely unjustified feelings, but to the observer it never plays well on the page. It matters little what is "correct", which I think you could be in most cases, if the message is suffocated by the weight of those things.

Some good debate has come through, of course and as usual, but all in all this is longest goodbye in history.

I hope you are able to move on and find the happiness in a place you're looking for.

[Baldrich]

(06-07-2017 04:24 PM)GlobalMan Wrote:  

Baldrich, this is your third "Thoughts on Spain" thread, and one of them is identical to this one.

The same thing has happened here as happened elsewhere- you see every comment as if it is a battle in court room, and you must refute and deny any other reasoned and experienced outlook or conclusion. And in doing this there is a sort of deficit of social awareness.

I don't even disagree with you, necessarily, on the main thrust of your ideas. In fact, I believe that in one of the copies of this thread I was defending you to some degree.

But at this point it is looking like there is some truth to what some are saying- there's a twinge of bitterness and frustrated regret. And perhaps those are not entirely unjustified feelings, but to the observer it never plays well on the page. It matters little what is "correct", which I think you could be in most cases, if the message is suffocated by the weight of those things.

Some good debate has come through, of course and as usual, but all in all this is longest goodbye in history.

I hope you are able to move on and find the happiness in a place you're looking for.

Holy shit. Again with "you are not happy"???? I'm really beginning to doubt the intelligence of some readers (if they even bother to read). When did I say I was "unhappy"? Do you even bother to read what I write? I have said AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN that I always get what I want in life and it is no exaggeration. I have the means to do that and to further my interests. I just wrote a new thread about Spain and it is not as you portray it so why do you bother trying to talk about my posts if you're going to misrepresent what they say? You talk about "reasoned and experienced outlook" and then you go on to say I am unhappy...seriously, that's what you call reasoned and experienced? So I happen to offer a critique and you jump to the conclusion I am somehow "unhappy". This is getting really annoying so I am just giving up on some people who think that if you don't walk around smiling like some demented idiot and say "all is well!" then somehow you must be unhappy.

[GlobalMan]

[apolis]

OP, I'm European, not Spanish.

SPAIN IS THE COOLEST EUROPEAN COUNTRY. EVERYBODY LIKES SPAIN,

except you and VERY FEW other Americans.

[TigerMandingo]

OP right now

[Baldrich]

Nice! Really mature. Let's just all gang up on OP since we don't like his opinions. Ohh nooo I am so hurt I can't even sleep! The horror! He just blasphemed Spain mom!

[underboss]

At least the average woman in Spain isn't eligible to step in the ring with Riddick Bowe strictly off weight class. So it does have that advantage to the US.

[Rossi]

(06-03-2017 01:17 AM)Nordwand Wrote:  

I think a lot of you are missing the point about the 66 year old, still working, even though he's worth millions. For him, it's not work, and it probably keeps him going, mentally, if not physically. I can think of at least one person from my old school, who is/was a very senior figure in finance, and worked long after he needed to.

I recall watching a TV programme a few years back, where an entrepreneur actually came out and stated that he didn't consider his job as work, because he enjoyed it.

P.S. a perfect example is Bernie Ecclestone, although you could argue that he's got to keep going, to keep his daughters in handbags and shoes.

Well, according to his reactions, he doesn't enjoy it much. He "complains" that he bought a place from Miami and not have "time" to enjoy Miami and weather since NYC weather is almost cold for 6 months especially in rough winter.

He makes comments on my facebook when I used to post pictures when I visit different city, like "Wow, you're having a blast." bla bla, all useless things.

He complains a lot about work, he says "getting up" gets harder as you get older but he has absolutely does nothing about it.

He made a comment on my facebook last year, I was in Greece and posted a picture from Athens, he wrote "I'd love to go there one day. I always loved history." which I replied to, "You got enough money and investments. When are you gonna quit from work and enjoy the world? You don't have 60 more years on this earth."

He was just laughing.

Meanwhile, his son loves that his dad is working a lot since he's the only son. He'll throw crazy parties when he takes over his dad's account. Thats where he needs me in Switzerland

[Rocha]

(06-07-2017 05:19 PM)Baldrich Wrote:  

Nice! Really mature. Let's just all gang up on OP since we don't like his opinions. Ohh nooo I am so hurt I can't even sleep! The horror! He just blasphemed Spain mom!

This could be "The Asperger Syndrome thread".