[Neo]

(04-03-2016 07:18 PM)dog24 Wrote:  

(04-03-2016 04:14 PM)Neo Wrote:  

I've been thinking about this for the past few years now. A lot of straight pure sport BJJ guys are being lulled into a false sense of security. The problem is that very many of the sport techniques simply don't apply when someone is punching you.

Blue belt techniques win mma matches, that being said in my experience it's actually a lot easier to get armbars/triangles or sweeps when someone is fully focused on punching you from guard.

Like i said before maybe it's just the place i live but we used to do drills where the teacher put on gloves and we weren't allowed to hit him back, and he kept punching us until we submitted him. And even though i agree that most self defense stuff isn't being taught anymore, most of the guys that train here have done at least a few classes of MT or standup.
Many of the discussions we had after class where everyone is just bullshitting around was about what would happen in a street fight, you would have to be retarted not to realize that bjj is a lot different with punches involved.

We used to do this drills too, school owners have to teach what the majority want.

The trend I've seen is most people are getting into BJJ to compete in sportive tournaments these days, when I first started the first priority was self defense and fighting. As Rio posted above a lot of BJJ guys straight up don't care whether the stuff works in a real situation or not. It's a trend that bothers me, but money talks.

If you run into the old guard, guys who trained with Rickson they are hardcore about self-defense and BJJ that's effective in a fight, it's the newer breed that to me seems to be doing the damage.

[WanderingSoul]

(04-03-2016 04:14 PM)Neo Wrote:  

A few years back when they had Ryron or Rener forgot who fight Galvao and they were claiming 'victory' cause he didn't submit them. It was absolutely ridiculous cause in a real match his 'keeping it playful' style would have resulted in getting his face smashed in. Those guys are some of the worst, and I can't believe they call themselves Gracie's, at least they stopped selling blue belts online. There are some legit members who fight MMA, some real guys are still around.

It isn't surprising to me at all.

The Gracie family has more than a few charlatans and unsavory characters in its tree, especially on Helio's side.

Though, Carlos did convince his best friend to let him impregnate his wife, on the grounds that ghosts told him he needed to, so I can't throw all of the dirt on Helio.

[WanderingSoul]

(04-03-2016 04:51 PM)Moto Wrote:  

I've read somewhere, maybe on this forum, that a lot of pure boxing technique like the footwork, the bobbing and weaving, don't work in MMA or a "real fight." Can anyone comment on this? I don't see why not. Slipping is a great skill in Kung Fu and there are so many ways to do it, just like in boxing.

Boxing footwork, bobbing and weaving, head movement, etc. all work just fine in a street fight and in MMA.

Just look at BJ Penn, Rampage Jackson, Diaz brothers, etc. to see it being done.

But too exaggerated of bobbing, like you sometimes see done in boxing where the boxer bends at a near 90 degree angle very low, could land you a knee to the face.

[Moto]

Interesting replies guys. I've started going to a different place, a pure Muay Thai place. It is awesome! Here I can build on my stand-up strengths and spar with some solid stand-up fighters! I've already learned some awesome elbow and other techniques that are definitely not taught in the Kung Fu I know but are absolutely wicked! Even watching real Muay Thai fights from Thailand is probably the most interesting kind of fight for me to watch now.

I'm getting so into it that I'm even thinking of moving to Thailand, even though I have a pretty good gig here in Mexico. Any Muay Thai specialists here?

[heavy]

I'd done a BJJ lesson a couple years ago, but I jumped in to a more advanced class where I was learning specific moves, so I was completely out of my league...and didn't end up going back.

So last night was sort of my first BJJ lesson. Obviously as a newbie (zero combat/wrestling experience), I can't comment on how solid the instructor was (~5 years of BJJ), but I can say he ran the class well, because I want to go back again. Here's how the class went:

- Warm up and stretching. This included stand up shrimping, technical stand up and offensive stand up (name?), forward rolling.
- Clinch, wrist grabs, and knee taps. Did these individually then combined.
- Guard and mounts. This is what I came to start to learn, the foundation of BJJ (I think?). Mount escape, passing the guard, getting to mount, and repeat.

So for as little as I know BJJ, I'd say this is a solid way to start. I plan on doing no gi Thursday, then going from there.

I wish the gym was entirely no gi...but I suppose it is BJJ, and besides, a gi does represent clothing that would be normal to encounter outside of a gym.

This gym also has muay thai instruction, so eventually I plan on mixing in the clinching and stand up game it offers.

[heavy]

Question about my incredibly tight/sore back...

I've always had a bad back, specifically lower. I had slight scoliosis when I was younger that was fixed by chiro adjustments. I haven't done much to treat it throughout my life:
- Bending / stretching before/during/after sports and lifting. I mean just standing there mostly.
- Propping myself up on counters and doing the hang to relax/stretch lower back. I do this all the time.
- Recently some reverse hyper machine stuff (gym just got equip for it).

I'm thinking adjustments by a chiropractor (a good cracking always helps), yoga, and more of the above will help.

Any advice? Even my upper back is tight from BJJ.

[Paul B]

Here's stuff that has helped me:

1. Foam rolling
2. Deadlifts
3. Hanging on a bar
4. Ryan Hall's stretching video
5. Standing desk
6. Casper mattress
7. Inversion therapy table
8. Theracane massager

[heavy]

Update: I submitted a guy twice last night using an Ezekiel choke and an arm bar (no gi). This is a guy bigger than me and in-shape with similar experience as me who normally gives me fits, so it was a confidence boost.

Admittedly, I didn't know what I was doing on the Ezekiel choke, I was just making the best of a non-ideal situation. Also I tried an arm bar on another more experience guy that failed, after which he showed me some tips. So yeah failure definitely offered more growth than success.

The big things I've learned so far, somewhat in chronological order (obviously the learning blends together):
- Breathing and pacing...always breath, and understanding when to exert energy and when not to. This is huge. Don't just continue struggling.
- Posture...pretty basic stuff but tough to ingrain. Keep shoulders back and head up, butt down, solid foundation and balance.
- Body weight...use gravity as an advantage. Most of our weight is in torso and head...use this as a tool to for position and to cause discomfort.
- Make opponent uncomfortable...as much as possible. To go with the body weight thing, causing discomfort for the opponent can offer a distraction, cause him to do something dumb, and generally let him know that victory will come at a cost.

Obviously we've learned some specific positions, movements, and submissions, but those are far less important than some of these general tips and tricks that come only with experience.

It's been just under 2 months, and I'm already seeing newer guys than me where they don't know what they're doing. Feels good to know I used to be that guy.

[Ringo]

(12-15-2016 09:50 AM)heavy Wrote:  

Question about my incredibly tight/sore back...

I've always had a bad back, specifically lower. I had slight scoliosis when I was younger that was fixed by chiro adjustments. I haven't done much to treat it throughout my life:
- Bending / stretching before/during/after sports and lifting. I mean just standing there mostly.
- Propping myself up on counters and doing the hang to relax/stretch lower back. I do this all the time.
- Recently some reverse hyper machine stuff (gym just got equip for it).

I'm thinking adjustments by a chiropractor (a good cracking always helps), yoga, and more of the above will help.

Any advice? Even my upper back is tight from BJJ.

I've been getting into the Jefferson Curl for a while now. First heard about it on the Tim Ferriss podcast with gymnastics coach Christopher Sommer.

It's can be a very dangerous movement if you load it with too much weight or try to progress too fast, so be mindful.

But if you take your time and apply it with prudence I reckon it's a great exercise.

I've been doing other GymnasticsBodies stuff for the past few months and feel amazing, so I give them the benefit of the doubt. Currently doing them with a 24kg kettlebell.

Demo:

Tutorial:

Here's Ferriss and Sommer talking about the J Curl (start at 58:20)

[SegaSaturn1994]

That Jefferson curl thing must be great for strengthening the hamstrings and what not. It's too bad that the spine tends to hav a different point of view when it comes to movements like this. As someone with a history of herniated discs I would never try this, though I would not have thought twice about it back in the day.

[Ringo]

(01-26-2017 05:08 PM)SegaSaturn1994 Wrote:  

That Jefferson curl thing must be great for strengthening the hamstrings and what not. It's too bad that the spine tends to hav a different point of view when it comes to movements like this. As someone with a history of herniated discs I would never try this, though I would not have thought twice about it back in the day.

I respect your opinion but from your posts you are completely against loading the spine in almost any way.

This is a fair point of view coming from someone who has a history of injury.

The other side of that coin is that by preventing it to be loaded and strengthened you don't actually protect it, but rather keep it weak and more vulnerable.

I agree with you that both the deadlift and J curl can be dangerous but then again everything can. If you are building up to a weight safely and not doing any ego lifting, they can be as safe as a bicep curl.

Obviously the more you load on the bar the smaller the line between health and danger get, but - in my non-professional view - if used with prudence these exercises are positive for one's posterior chain.

[dallasguy]

My advice is kickboxing and judo. BJJ is too ground oriented and you don't want to stay on the ground in a fight. The guy you're fighting could have a friend who will stomp your skull in like an egg. Judo will teach you how to throw them down and teaches enough grappling to beat 99% of people out there if you do end up on the ground. Kicking is important because if they have a knife or bottle you won't be able to get close enough to punch.

[cascadecombo]

(01-26-2017 11:30 AM)heavy Wrote:  

Admittedly, I didn't know what I was doing on the Ezekiel choke, I was just making the best of a non-ideal situation. Also I tried an arm bar on another more experience guy that failed, after which he showed me some tips. So yeah failure definitely offered more growth than success.

The big things I've learned so far, somewhat in chronological order (obviously the learning blends together):
- Breathing and pacing...always breath, and understanding when to exert energy and when not to. This is huge. Don't just continue struggling.
- Posture...pretty basic stuff but tough to ingrain. Keep shoulders back and head up, butt down, solid foundation and balance.
- Body weight...use gravity as an advantage. Most of our weight is in torso and head...use this as a tool to for position and to cause discomfort.
- Make opponent uncomfortable...as much as possible. To go with the body weight thing, causing discomfort for the opponent can offer a distraction, cause him to do something dumb, and generally let him know that victory will come at a cost.

Obviously we've learned some specific positions, movements, and submissions, but those are far less important than some of these general tips and tricks that come only with experience.

It's been just under 2 months, and I'm already seeing newer guys than me where they don't know what they're doing. Feels good to know I used to be that guy.

First bold item, that's basically what grappling becomes when you get an opponent who knows what he is doing. You fight for control and when you see an opportunity among the chaos you strike, even then chances of hitting it are slim but once you get it in you're golden.

Your comment about the head up is something most people neglect, but is one of the most important things. Not to mention simply keeping your head up can prevent that newb trap of a guillotine or other chokes like it with ease.

The last item, have you tried tickling?

[heavy]

(01-26-2017 10:28 PM)dallasguy Wrote:  

My advice is kickboxing and judo. BJJ is too ground oriented and you don't want to stay on the ground in a fight. The guy you're fighting could have a friend who will stomp your skull in like an egg. Judo will teach you how to throw them down and teaches enough grappling to beat 99% of people out there if you do end up on the ground. Kicking is important because if they have a knife or bottle you won't be able to get close enough to punch.

I started with BJJ for a few reasons.
1. Starting from scratch, I had to start somewhere, so I wasn't too concerned which art form.
2. Easiest gyms to find. The demand means in a smaller city like mine, I'm more likely to find a good BJJ / muay thai gym (what mine is) than judo.
3. Simple body control and positioning. Like I said, I was starting with zero experience, and BJJ teaches heavily in the body positioning.
4. I'm fascinated by it. I'm fascinated how a person can roll with someone bigger / smaller and keep up. I'm fascinated on chokes and bars, etc.
5. Can roll 100% a lot.
6. My intention is 80% to learn a self-defense MA and 20% to learn how to fight someone in real life.

I agree with you if I were training for street fights. I'm not. I plan on mixing in muay thai / kickboxing / judo at some point (I know a person at the gym who's done judo, so a helpful resource), but I've only been doing this 2 months (as you can see above).

Edit: I think I'd find judo similarly fascinating.

[heavy]

Update. Been doing BJJ since my 12/7/2016 post above. I'd say I'm averaging at least 2x a week. Last week I did 4x.

I missed quite a bit for a few weeks because of being sick and going on vacation. When I came back, it took some discipline to go a few times, but then I fell in love with it again. Plus I've been busy starting a side business and had some anxiety from that...BJJ helps a lot with anxiety.

I had one of the guys show me some things on the punching / kicking bags the other day, because I needed to vent some frustration. That helped. I'm excited to some day, when I have more time, doing some MT.

I rolled no-gi against a guy who was bigger than me and wrestled D1 at Nebraska, brand new to BJJ...we had a stalemate, so that felt good. Although he'll kick my ass once he learns a few things.

Back has been fine since I had a chiropractor fix it back in January-February. It was an issue from deadlifting last year. I caved and put out a few hundred bucks for a bunch of visits, and I'll be damned if he didn't straighten it out.

So just reporting in, I'm all in on BJJ and eventually some MT. So glad I'm not wasting my time playing pickup basketball anymore and not progressing at anything. That's really the key. The intuitive and physical gains from learning a MA.

Can't say I'd be doing this without RVF or Rogan's podcast. Sorry if the last page of this thread has become heavy's bjj journey.

[Ringo]

(05-25-2017 10:16 AM)heavy Wrote:  

Back has been fine since I had a chiropractor fix it back in January-February. It was an issue from deadlifting last year. I caved and put out a few hundred bucks for a bunch of visits, and I'll be damned if he didn't straighten it out.

I've had lower back discomfort for about a year. Nothing wrong with it according to exams and X-rays, but I still feel it pull from time to time. Been fixing it with a lot of yoga and stretching.

I've been to two chiros for evaluation but didn't pull the trigger on the treament.

How much better are you feeling? How many sessions did you do?

[heavy]

I don't have them all marked on my calendar, but...
4 weeks 3x per week
3 weeks 2x per week
Then a few after that

First off, get the guy to adjust you on the first visit to make sure you know he's doing something and knows his stuff. I've been to a guy before who xrayed and bull shitted and felt my back and made a plan but never adjusted me...fuck that.

So this guy, I sat down with him and he started mapping out a plan, and I said "That's all well and good, take the xray and do measurements for analysis, but I need an adjustment today."

I've been to chiropractors before (had slight scoliosis in high school that a chiro fixed), so I knew he was good at adjusting me right away.

He had me on a longer schedule, but I was paying per visit, and I didn't feel each subsequent visit was doing much so I told him I'd rather just save my $ for occasional visits going forward when I need them.

I probably paid around $500 and probably could have stopped earlier, but whatever he did worked. I'm sure if I went in he'd tell me, appropriately, that I'm a little off, I'm a little heavy on my left, head sits a little forward, etc. But for now, since he adjusted, I feel great.