[BrewDog]

I'm gonna go with Ali, but perhaps it's a tossup. I think Joe Frazier and George Foreman are all on the same level, too.

Here's my fave of all time. George Fucking Foreman.

This is the best fight that ever happened.

[Poker]

It's a tough one. This was discussed in the thread that was created when Ali passed away. Traveller Kai made a good point when he pointed out the differences in the training methods that both men undertook, the advances in sports science, nutrition etc.... His point was that you would have to drop one into the time of the other and then debate it, which has merit.

This is one of those debates that will never be agreed on though I would go with Ali. In his prime he was quick as hell(hands and feet), he had an amazing ability to take a punch and could easily go into the later rounds. One thing I think many forget is that Tyson was very fragile mentally while Ali was the king of mental games. I think that pre-fight he would of destroyed Tyson mentally, not to mention the fact that Ali wouldn't of been scared of Tyson which was a major weapon in his arsenal. Michael Spinks had fought 31 times when he fought Tyson, winning them all. He has admitted that he was scared of Tyson going into the fight in which was knocked out in the first round.

[BrewDog]

(03-20-2017 03:48 PM)Poker Wrote:  

It's a tough one. This was discussed in the thread that was created when Ali passed away.

I figured someone had brought the subject up. It's a classic guy bar discussion.

Both guys in their prime were absolute machines. It's too bad we can't watch them in a match.

I would be more scared of George Foreman personally. That guy will knock your head off.

[Poker]

(03-20-2017 03:51 PM)BrewDog Wrote:  

(03-20-2017 03:48 PM)Poker Wrote:  

It's a tough one. This was discussed in the thread that was created when Ali passed away.

I figured someone had brought the subject up. It's a classic guy bar discussion.

Both guys in their prime were absolute machines. It's too bad we can't watch them in a match.

Yeah it seems to come up a lot which is understandable, it's the dream fight for many.

It's a shame Tyson never fought George Foreman when Foreman came out of retirement. Big George was always calling Mike out whenever he had the opportunity, he would say that the only reason he came out of retirement was the fight Tyson. Would of been a hell of a fight.

I read somewhere that apparently Tyson was shit scared of Foreman because Cus D'Amato used to always show him the Foreman-Fraiser fights, saying how fighters with a swarming style could never defeat Foreman. This left a deep impression on Mike

[BrewDog]

(03-20-2017 04:03 PM)Poker Wrote:  

I read somewhere that apparently Tyson was shit scared of Foreman because Cus D'Amato used to always show him the Foreman-Fraiser fights, saying how fighters with a swarming style could never defeat Foreman. This left a deep impression on Mike

Foreman scares the shit outta me. I was just watching this fight where Foreman pummels the hell out of Ali (Rumble in the Jungle).

That's perhaps why Ali is the greatest. Look at the way Foreman lands shot after shot. Body shots and uppercuts to the chin. Foreman is the hardest puncher that ever fought. Ali doesn't seem like he gives a single shit in the face of this extreme brutality.

The average man would crumble under even one of these Foreman body shots. Ali just acts like it's a regular day at the office.

[Poker]

(03-20-2017 04:11 PM)BrewDog Wrote:  

(03-20-2017 04:03 PM)Poker Wrote:  

I read somewhere that apparently Tyson was shit scared of Foreman because Cus D'Amato used to always show him the Foreman-Fraiser fights, saying how fighters with a swarming style could never defeat Foreman. This left a deep impression on Mike

Foreman scares the shit outta me. I was just watching this fight where Foreman pummels the hell out of Ali (Rumble in the Jungle).

That's perhaps why Ali is the greatest. Look at the way Foreman lands shot after shot. Body shots and uppercuts to the chin. Foreman is the hardest puncher that ever fought. Ali doesn't seem like he gives a single shit in the face of this extreme brutality.

The average man would crumble under even one of these Foreman body shots. Ali just acts like it's a regular day at the office.

Man it's crazy. You're right Foreman is a monster and the fact Ali could take those shots and keep going, keep talking, is unbelievable. Can you imagine being in the ring with Foreman and purposely pissing him off, having him hit you with everything he had for round after round. I discussed Foreman with few guys who were around at the time, they all said that it's impossible to understand how scary Foreman was unless you present during that era.
In an interview with Foreman, he said that during the Ali fight, he knocked Ali out cold twice on his feet, his eyes would close for a second, then he would wake up and carry on boxing and talking. Unbelievable.
Another fight that shows Ali's toughness is the fight he had with Earnie Shavers in 1977. Shavers is considered one of the toughest punchers ever, Ali was past his prime then and slowing down. Ali won the fight but took such a beating that his doctor quit afterwards.

To see a monster punch that Ali took from Shavers, skip to 3:05

[H1N1]

In my view it is a relatively routine win for Tyson. Ali would have got in Tyson's head, no doubt, and could have made him a little wild, but prime Tyson is as close to the perfect fighting machine as I have ever seen, and not plagued by the mental deficiencies that came later. Tyson at 22 was fearsome, people forget just how fearsome when they look at his later career after prison, drugs etc. Foreman was big, and a heavy hitter, but he hadn't the athleticism or ferocity to compare with Tyson. You couldn't seriously entertain the possibility of rope-a-doping Tyson for 8 rounds, no man could stand up to that, however tough, and Ali was about as tough as they come.

[BrewDog]

Look at 3:25. That's one of the most brutal uppercuts to the chin I've ever seen. I don't think Tyson could take that sort of punishment.

[Moma]

(03-20-2017 04:35 PM)H1N1 Wrote:  

In my view it is a relatively routine win for Tyson. Ali would have got in Tyson's head, no doubt, and could have made him a little wild, but prime Tyson is as close to the perfect fighting machine as I have ever seen, and not plagued by the mental deficiencies that came later. Tyson at 22 was fearsome, people forget just how fearsome when they look at his later career after prison, drugs etc. Foreman was big, and a heavy hitter, but he hadn't the athleticism or ferocity to compare with Tyson. You couldn't seriously entertain the possibility of rope-a-doping Tyson for 8 rounds, no man could stand up to that, however tough, and Ali was about as tough as they come.

he wouldn't need to rope-a-dope Tyson. Foreman was taller and stronger so Ali used that strategy. With Tyson, he could just bother him with the jab while he danced around. Tyson was at least four inches shorter with a shorter reach so he would have to come into Ali.

[BrewDog]

I dunno. When Tyson got hit hard, he went down. When Ali got hit hard, Ali laughed.

[Rocha]

9 out of 10 times, the bout would go to Ali.

Tyson was a beast, yes, but up until that loss to Buster Douglas (which is considered Tyson prime), he did not defeat any boxing legend or great except Spinks and an ageing Larry Holmes almost with 40.

On the other side it is not for a chance that the late 60s and early 70s is considered to be the golden age of heavyweight boxing, with so many talented guys who would be world champions in any other era or that where in fact champions, and all lost to Ali.
Foreman, Frazier, Chuvalo, Patterson, Quarry, Norton, Bonavena, Liston, Bugner, Shavers, Cooper, Lyle, Folley... all of these guys where knocking out each one of the other in authentic slugfests.

[Soyouz]

The first thing I'll do once I get to heaven, if there is such a place, is to go watch Ali/Tyson in their prime, while drinking rum with my dad.

Tyson would be the underdog in this fight. Ali fought during the golden era of heavyweight boxing, had a great jaw, and amazing speed.

However, my money would be on Tyson. I believe Tyson style is all wrong for Ali. Tyson was always a small heavyweight (5'10), so he had to master the duck/weave, and slip under the jabs of his opponent. He had amazing hooks, both from the left or the right. Now let's look at the boxer who gave Ali his biggest challenge : Frazier in their first fight. What made Frazier so efficient? He slipped under Ali jab/direct punches, and was effective with his hooks. Tyson was faster and more successful than Frazier at doing this. I see Tyson winning a close decision.

[Fortis]

Tyson for sure. I think Tyson is like an evolved Ali. He was built just to box. He came from a savage background and then was trained specifically to box.

I don't really think you can dance around Tyson in his prime. He's too fast, too strong, too technical. he had almost no holes in his game when he was with D'Amato. It would be like walking into a meatgrinder.

I think Tyson is one of the rare boxers where it was perfect that he was a small (heightwise) heavy weight. He could get in on big guys like Foreman and Ali and just work them down from the inside. He's really good at just getting in on bigger dudes and making their punches ineffective.

[rudebwoy]

I love Ali and he's an icon.

Tyson in his prime would have destroyed Ali.

[The Breeze]

Sadly, all we can do is debate the possibilities.

Tyson - Incredible savagery, amazing power, unleashing a fury rarely seen
before or since. More machine than man it sometimes seemed. Always a legit
threat to end any fight with one shot.

Ali - Considered the greatest of all time. I think Ali was perhaps the greatest
counter-puncher of all too, and would slip punches easily. This frustrated many great
fighters before. Ali also took punishment, and kept it hidden. (see Ali-Frazier III)

The Fight - If Tyson is to win, he would need to overpower Ali in the early rounds.
If Ali could weather this storm, I think he does enough to frustrate a tiring Mike Tyson,
and win the fight in a unanimous decision.

This time period was truly the greatest in the HW division. My personal fave? Ken Norton.

[Newguy101]

Hard say in their prime. If tyson brawls he loses.
But in his prike as an inside fighter hed beat ali.
Frasier was alis hardest fight since he was his stylistic cryptonite. In trilla in manilla frazier vs ali 3. Ali was asking his corner to cut his gloves he was done. While joe was battered but willing but his corner refused abd threw in the towel.
So a harder punching version of joe frasier aka tyson would most likely win.
And this comes from an ali fan.
Even the greatest has weaknesses.
Worth noting ali would be in hospital in some if his fights pissing blood due to body shots. He also needed surgery on his knee when inoki kicked him

[Rossi]

I'd go for Ali.

[rudebwoy]

Tyson was probably juiced up in his prime, Ali was obvious natural.

What Ali did to Foreman, wouldn't work on Tyson. The body blows would have hurt Ali easily, don't forget Tyson was knocking dudes through the ropes.

I remember Tyson fighting Frank Bruno, who looked bigger than Tyson. The fear in his eyes was very evident and he lost the fight.

Boxing is fixed, so don't use the example of Buster Douglas beating Tyson. I am sure the "syndicate" made millions over that "shock" defeat.

The same way they made millions when Ali beat Liston, the first time.
Liston was the heavy favourite and everyone was betting heavily on Liston to shut up the young Ali's mouth.
In the rematch with Liston, Ali yelled at Liston to get up from the mat or people would think the match was fixed.

I still have mad love for Ali, he deserves all the praise he gets.

Tyson was short changed in his career, over some BS rape allegation.

It is funny how both men were robbed in their prime years.

[BrewDog]

(03-21-2017 11:25 AM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

Tyson was probably juiced up in his prime, Ali was obvious natural.

It always makes me wonder if this is why Ali always looks so calm while Tyson has this mean look like he wants to kill you. Maybe the roids?

[TigerMandingo]

Yea count me in on the Tyson bandwagon. I think he would drop Ali pretty quickly.

It's like Larry Bird vs. Michael Jordan. Was Bird an NBA legend? Yes. But he would be annihilated by prime MJ (1993-96).

[churros]

There's such a massive difference between early and late Ali. What happened to him? I mean, I know he got older, but does it affect your style that drastically? Look at this guy.

[Soyouz]

(03-22-2017 05:29 PM)churros Wrote:  

There's such a massive difference between early and late Ali. What happened to him? I mean, I know he got older, but does it affect your style that drastically? Look at this guy.

Boxers age differently, based on their style, genetics, discipline and how many wars they've been into.

Boxers who rely on their speed won't be effective at the end of their career, because it's one of the first thing that fades away when you get older (ex : Roy Jones). Boxers who are known to party hard between fight obviously don't age well (ex : Gatti, De La Hoya).

Those who rely on technique and defense (Hopkins), or those with amazing one punch power (Foreman) can still perform well at the end of their 40s.

As for Ali, he relied on his quick reflexes to get the job done. He didn't mind taking a few punches, to land some of his own. It made him one of the most exciting warrior of all time, but he paid the ultimate price with his health. He also got in trouble outside the ring. Refusing to serve in Vietnam was probably his biggest battle, and got him into legal, and financial troubles. He had to stop boxing for many years, ran out of money, had to go fight a Japanese wrestler in a bizarre MMA match. This giant wrestler spent 15 rounds kicking Ali's legs, severely injuring him. Ali couldn't walk for a while after this fight.

He also didn't know when to stop boxing, he fought way past his prime, and took a lot of punishment.

[brianmark]

i've seen many Ali fights and many Tyson fights. There is no comparison. Ali fought many good sluggers and won: Sonny Liston, George Forman, Joe Frazier and others. The 1960s Ali would have killed Tyson. The 1970s Ali, through the Thrillia in Manila, would have soundly beaten Tyson. Tyson was a quitter when he couldn't get a knockout quickly. He bit off Holifield's ear in the second fight when he knew he was getting beat. He was beaten by Buster Douglas who was a second rate boxer. Ali was the greatest boxer of all time and never was a quitter. He did his best with sluggers. Just look at the Rumble in the Jungle with Forman and the Thrilla in Manila with Frazier. These are basically the the older Ali. Look at the first Liston Ali fight if you want to see Ali in his prime, or just watch any of his 1960s fights. Ali would have soundly beaten Tyson.

[Fortis]

I just can't see someone dancing (ali style) around Mike Tyson in his prime. Tyson gets mischaracterized as some sort of 1-dimensional slugger, but have you guys watched him dodge punches or seen his brutal combos? Mike Tyson had lightning fast hands, feet and insanely powerful punches.

He could go rounds without eating a serious hit while the other fighter was bleeding his eyes out. Andersen Silva looks like an evasion amateur next to Tyson.

And going into a slug fest with mike Tyson?



not gonna work.

I think Mike Tyson had the punching power of a guy at least 40+ pounds heavier than him. He wasn't just putting guys on the floor, they were out cold before they hit the ground.

Mike may have been small for his weight class but I think that gave him the ability to run bigger, taller guys down. Not the mention, his stamina in his prime was unreal.

You couldn't rely on Mike getting tired because if he was tired you were tired and he'd win a slug fest easily.

I respect Ali a lot but I think Tyson was the evolutionary step after Ali. Nothing Tyson did would have been possible without Ali's contributions to the sport, but Ali would have gotten devoured by a Tyson in his prime. No contest.

I don't really think Tyson in his prime had any real holes in his game. You stepped into the ring, you lost, Mike won and that was that.

[captain_shane]

If you're stepping into the ring with that guy in his prime, someone's getting knocked out.