[pirate]

I've never been one to suffer approach anxiety, "social consequences/hierarchy" is something I simply do not recognize. Instead, I'm struggling with something else: cognitive dissonance.

I've always been a very honest, straightforward person. I'm a tremendously bad liar/pretender, thus I generally do not attempt these. It's not all bad, sometimes brutal honesty can provoke or make laugh just as well.

The dissonance I'm describing is this: I have zero interest in hanging out in bars and talking to random people, including young women. They have absolutely nothing that I want, aside from pussies. It's not a great way to be, but that is simply the hand I've been dealt and I have to work with it.

Some women respond well to my advances, but a few seconds into the approach I start getting this from my scumbag brain:

"She might be uninteresting but she is probably not a moron. She can see you're not the type of guy that hangs out in bars and talks to women for fun"

"look at you, you shmuck, all dressed up to come and pretend you're interested in being someone's clown"

Whether she senses these things or not it fucks up my approach and makes me feel like a phony.

I am now thirty years old and I no longer enjoy getting drunk. Sitting alone in a bar looking for women to approach makes me feel like an impostor and a phoney.

It's not that I feel that there is anything morally wrong with okes doing this. It completely natural and predictable for a young man to present himself and search for sex; I cannot understand why the current culture would shame him for that.

It is simply that this is not something I enjoy doing- pretending to be this socially suave gent hanging in bars and having conversations with several different (equally uninteresting women). My brain wreaks havoc on me when I do things not in keeping with my values, almost worse than a hangover.

The solution? Here are some I've tried, or which I think will be presented here:

1) "Just be more social, cultivate an interest in people." NO. The average woman works a deadbeat job, has no creative or intellectual ambitions and spends all their time watching series or their cellphone screens. (I'm not hating on women here- men are the same, if not worse with sport, porn, cars) I am not interested, and never will be.

2) "Just fuck hookers then". I've gone this route, but it's not very fulfilling. First, fucking with a condom is about 1/3 as pleasurable as without. I'd rather fuck a 5 raw than a 9 with a condom. Second, there is something you can feel in a woman's body when she wants your cock. It is incredibly arousing.

3) "Just learn daygame then". The only people that daygame in my country are beggars, hookers and scamsters. Johannesburg was at some time the murder capital of the world, there is simply not the trust to even entertain a stranger for a few seconds.

If there is a God, he has a wicked sense of humor. I have a very fat cock and a sex drive that is insatiable, yet he has cursed me with this misanthropic demeanor that renders me virtually impotent.

The time for me to learn game and enjoy a sexlife is growing short. "Why didn't you learn it earlier?" Ironically, sleeping with a escort the first time was what finally convinced me there is no other option than to learn game. I'd always been thinking "bah, I can always sleep with a hot escort"; this mental safety net has prevented me from taking game and the learning thereof seriously.

If any of you gentleman have overcome this problem of cognitive dissonance and general disinterest, PLEASE share your wisdom with me.

Also, does anyone know of an ULTRA-direct game guide, this is effectively the only method that has ever yielded any results for me, for both one-nighters and longterm relationships.

[wi30]

Why are you trying to go out and be someone you're not? Everyone in the bar can sense that you are a phony. Girls especially can pick up on the fact that you're being incongruent.

Quit wasting your time on shit you don't want to do or being someone you don't want to be.

Focus on your hobbies and interests. Don't drink or go out at night if you don't want to. Meet girls through your social circle. Join new groups or try new activities. Meetup.com is great for this. Or try online game.

As far as direct game, you don't need a guide. Don't use game information as a crutch. If you're talking to a girl that is cute and seems interesting, tell her and invite her out for a drink or coffee.

The only thing you need to do is be congruent and true to yourself. Everything else will follow. Girls love a man with complete conviction.

[XPQ22]

(02-07-2017 09:03 AM)pirate Wrote:  

I've never been one to suffer approach anxiety, "social consequences/hierarchy" is something I simply do not recognize. Instead, I'm struggling with something else: cognitive dissonance.

I've always been a very honest, straightforward person. I'm a tremendously bad liar/pretender, thus I generally do not attempt these. It's not all bad, sometimes brutal honesty can provoke or make laugh just as well.

Okay, "know thyself" is a good start. But remember it's called "brutal honesty" or "honesty to a fault" for a reason. In social situations people almost never "tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help me God." Does that mean that they're a bad person, or you're a bad person? No. It's just the completely normal way humans operate.

Quote:

The dissonance I'm describing is this: I have zero interest in hanging out in bars and talking to random people, including young women. They have absolutely nothing that I want, aside from pussies. It's not a great way to be, but that is simply the hand I've been dealt and I have to work with it.

Red pill truth: Nobody gives a shit what you want, or what you do or don't have interest in doing. That's the reality of being a man. Women don't owe you a thing.

"I was dealt a bad hand" is a copout, dude. In psychology they call it an "alloplastic defense mechanism" - it means one who attempts to blame the world, or God, or fate, or the government, or feminism, or...for their problems. It is a copout because it is an easy excuse to avoid doing the one thing that is both most difficult and most productive, looking at the one thing you can control - you.

Quote:

Some women respond well to my advances

Good...

Quote:

but a few seconds into the approach I start getting this from my scumbag brain:

"She might be uninteresting but she is probably not a moron. She can see you're not the type of guy that hangs out in bars and talks to women for fun"

"look at you, you shmuck, all dressed up to come and pretend you're interested in being someone's clown"

Whether she senses these things or not it fucks up my approach and makes me feel like a phony.

Aarrrgh. Why do you presume to know what any girl is thinking about you at any time? Are you a mind reader? A psychic? Are you Miss Cleo at the psychic hotline?

"Assume the sale." Your "scumbag brain" is just fucking pissed that you're attempting to change yourself. That's the way it usually goes when you attempt to do something different than you've always done, your scumbag brain will fight back. "You're being a phony! Oh my God everyone can tell. What are you doing? Can't you see that you're a fake..."

This is completely normal. It's almost like your little beeping neural network has a vested interest in remaining the way it's wired, and it's trying to fight back. It happens to everybody - if self-behavior modification were easy then everyone would do it. Clearly it isn't.

It sounds like your brain is blowing you out long before she does. If she's going to do it, let her do it. But these thoughts are just doing the work for her, which is a sure way to lose.

Quote:

I am now thirty years old and I no longer enjoy getting drunk. Sitting alone in a bar looking for women to approach makes me feel like an impostor and a phoney.

It's not that I feel that there is anything morally wrong with okes doing this. It completely natural and predictable for a young man to present himself and search for sex; I cannot understand why the current culture would shame him for that.

It is simply that this is not something I enjoy doing- pretending to be this socially suave gent hanging in bars and having conversations with several different (equally uninteresting women). My brain wreaks havoc on me when I do things not in keeping with my values, almost worse than a hangover.

Again, your brain is just pissed that you've discovered that your "values" are likely a big load of BS. Instead of moping about how all women are so tedious and uninteresting, maybe ask yourself why you find them uninteresting? They're women - what exactly are you expecting? Not everyone in the world is an astrophysicist or philosopher, and that's completely fine. Some women are smarter than others, others less so.

There's nothing about a hairdresser you're talking to in a bar that you can find interesting? Really? Nothing at all?

If you're finding the conversations you're having with them tedious this is the guess I would hazard: for the most part they're not actually tedious people. It probably just means you're running bad game; you're being reactive and not proactive. You wanna go somewhere interesting? You have to take her there.

Quote:

The solution? Here are some I've tried, or which I think will be presented here:

1) "Just be more social, cultivate an interest in people." NO. The average woman works a deadbeat job, has no creative or intellectual ambitions and spends all their time watching series or their cellphone screens. (I'm not hating on women here- men are the same, if not worse with sport, porn, cars) I am not interested, and never will be.

2) "Just fuck hookers then". I've gone this route, but it's not very fulfilling. First, fucking with a condom is about 1/3 as pleasurable as without. I'd rather fuck a 5 raw than a 9 with a condom. Second, there is something you can feel in a woman's body when she wants your cock. It is incredibly arousing.

3) "Just learn daygame then". The only people that daygame in my country are beggars, hookers and scamsters. Johannesburg was at some time the murder capital of the world, there is simply not the trust to even entertain a stranger for a few seconds.

You use "extreme qualifier" words like "only" and "always" and "never" and "zero interest" etc. a lot. Have you noticed that?

The reason that I ask is that they're words that don't really have a lot of relevance to the real world.

Quote:

If there is a God, he has a wicked sense of humor. I have a very fat cock and a sex drive that is insatiable, yet he has cursed me with this misanthropic demeanor that renders me virtually impotent.

No one has cursed you with anything. It is a construction in your mind.

Quote:

The time for me to learn game and enjoy a sexlife is growing short. "Why didn't you learn it earlier?" Ironically, sleeping with a escort the first time was what finally convinced me there is no other option than to learn game. I'd always been thinking "bah, I can always sleep with a hot escort"; this mental safety net has prevented me from taking game and the learning thereof seriously.

You are 30. If all goes well, you have an entire lifetime of great sex and relationships still ahead. But it sounds like this sort of self-absorbed cerebral overthinking mindset is absolutely fuckin' killing you.

[realologist]

Another I don't like night game and hate women thread.

Both those attitudes serve you no good when trying to get laid.

Don't have preconceived notions about women before you even speak to them. You should enjoy the process. The push, pull, flirting, escalating and fucking. It should bring you joy. If not why are you gaming them.

[456]

Random tip for "I'm alone in a bar mostly to talk to women" if you aren't already socializing with everyone:

Pretend you're on vacation, or on a mission, and you're just here to pass some time before the next big thing. Get into that transient vibe, and it can open your imagination a bit.

[XXL]

Check my response in this thread. Quick and very direct method with minimum pleasantries....
thread-60483...86134.html

[pirate]

@XPQ22

Thank you for your very detailed, point by point rebuttal of my mental masturbation. I do not agree with everything you said, but you are certainly correct that there is a lot of All-or-nothing thinking in my post. +1 from me- it is rare to be given such personalized advice from a stranger.

@wi30 and realologist

There seems to be broadly two schools of thought on the topic, the one being "live your life, do what you want, dont change yourself for anyone and the women will come", the other being "stop hating women, jump through their hoops and get in line with the rest of us, this is jut how things are and you have to make the best of it". It almost warrants a topic on its own.

I am very far down the path that you suggest ,wi30, but the further I go, the further it takes me from women and having a fulfilling sexlife. My life is fucking awesome right now, I spend my days on a remote site making and saving tons of money, learning french, going to the gym and reading alot. In the evening I drink expensive whiskey and play pool/darts. Does this get me laid? Absolutely not.

@XXL

I have read and reread that post several times, it's the closest thing I can find to an Ultra-direct game guide. It is in fact, only method that's ever worked for me. Can you refer me to any similar resources?

[realologist]

(02-08-2017 05:27 AM)pirate Wrote:  

@wi30 and realologist

There seems to be broadly two schools of thought on the topic, the one being "live your life, do what you want, dont change yourself for anyone and the women will come", the other being "stop hating women, jump through their hoops and get in line with the rest of us, this is jut how things are and you have to make the best of it". It almost warrants a topic on its own.

I am very far down the path that you suggest ,wi30, but the further I go, the further it takes me from women and having a fulfilling sexlife. My life is fucking awesome right now, I spend my days on a remote site making and saving tons of money, learning french, going to the gym and reading alot. In the evening I drink expensive whiskey and play pool/darts. Does this get me laid? Absolutely not.

I see what you're saying but like it's been touched on. It's not that black and white. It's not either/or. It's both.

You have to live life on your terms and enjoy it but you also have to learn to enjoy women and the process with them. Without enjoying that process you will either end up jaded hating women or you will entirely ignore them not getting laid. It doesn't have to be night game but there is a foundation that's the same no matter who, where, what and why you game.

[Thomas the Rhymer]

(02-07-2017 09:03 AM)pirate Wrote:  

3) "Just learn daygame then". The only people that daygame in my country are beggars, hookers and scamsters. Johannesburg was at some time the murder capital of the world, there is simply not the trust to even entertain a stranger for a few seconds.

I don't know if its a different culture up here but I've pretty much exclusively pulled in Pretoria using day game. Maybe you should just take the Gautrain up here on weekends and practice your daygame here. Pretoria people are more friendly, and it's only a 40 minute trip. Chase varsity chicks in Hatfield or catch an uber to Menlyn Mall or Brooklyn Mall. I picked up my girlfriend at Seattle coffee shop in Brooklyn.

I've had a few warm encounters on the gautrain bus system in Johannesburg, I don't believe you if you say daygame is impossible. The women responded to me, and I'm pretty sure if I was single and hungry and based in Joburg I could pull there using daygame.

The idea that daygame in South Africa is only for low-lifes is definitely a pyschological stumbling block for you. You're making excuses. I've done it, and I don't have very good social skills, and if I can do it, so can you.

[BrewDog]

(02-07-2017 09:03 AM)pirate Wrote:  

I am now thirty years old and I no longer enjoy getting drunk. Sitting alone in a bar looking for women to approach makes me feel like an impostor and a phoney.

I lost interest right here.

[XXL]

You might also check this...
thread-28403.html

Basically if you wanna cut bullshit games to the absolute minimum you need to have screening mindset and get straight to the point fast. It doesn't mean telling every girl upfront you wanna fuck.

Coca cola doesnt say "hey I'm just water with disgusting sugar drink me now bitch". Cola seduces us with cute polar bear and red trucks on christmas but the end result is that you drink it, bitch. Thats what marketing does.

So go direct with screening mindset and focus on those who like you but at the same time seduce them a bit. Give those girls some polar bear at first so that they can feel they want it at least.

When you spend some time being more honest with girls but still cool about it then you will notice how unnecessary is a lot of the typical mating dance and pleasantries. Thing is we usually dont want to go there out of fear of messing up our chances. I'd recommend taking certain period of time (month or two) to fully switch to honest/screeninp based game just to taste it.

[pirate]

Thomas,

This is very interesting. Are you a South African? Do you live in Pretoria? Afrikaans/English?

Or did you only visit there from abroad?

Please share some of your daygaming experiences in Pretoria, this is really a perspective I would like to hear. Truly, I have several friends that get laid a tonne, but none of them use daygame.

There are large obstacles to this, in my book:

>Social circle game is absolute king in Cpt/Bloemfontein/Pretoria. Especially with Afrikaans girls (I am Afrikaans) .You have to have that trust factor brought in by someone other than yourself.

>We drive everywhere- there simply isnt a culture of walking from place to place, its considered too dangerous. People hang out in private venues, and do not go places alone.

>South African white women are more religious/conservative than the women typically discussed here; at the same time they're the most entitled group of women I've met across the globe.

Typing this out, it does register with me that I am making excuses. These things do make it more difficult, but not impossible.

I am getting to the point where I'm ready to try anything, consequences be damned, I mean I dont even live in RSA permanently anymore.

[Thomas the Rhymer]

(02-09-2017 02:04 AM)pirate Wrote:  

Thomas,

This is very interesting. Are you a South African? Do you live in Pretoria? Afrikaans/English?

Or did you only visit there from abroad?

Please share some of your daygaming experiences in Pretoria, this is really a perspective I would like to hear. Truly, I have several friends that get laid a tonne, but none of them use daygame.

There are large obstacles to this, in my book:

>Social circle game is absolute king in Cpt/Bloemfontein/Pretoria. Especially with Afrikaans girls (I am Afrikaans) .You have to have that trust factor brought in by someone other than yourself.

>We drive everywhere- there simply isnt a culture of walking from place to place, its considered too dangerous. People hang out in private venues, and do not go places alone.

>South African white women are more religious/conservative than the women typically discussed here; at the same time they're the most entitled group of women I've met across the globe.

Typing this out, it does register with me that I am making excuses. These things do make it more difficult, but not impossible.

I am getting to the point where I'm ready to try anything, consequences be damned, I mean I dont even live in RSA permanently anymore.

I'm not going to pretend to be a game expert - I like my LTRs so most of my game experience came from girlfriend hunting, rather than trying to get a high notch count. I will share my limited experiences, though.

You asked for my details: I'm South African, English speaker. I've lived in Pretoria for too long, this is my 17th year, and I'm fed up of the place and I'm planning to leave the place this year. I'm thinking of dropping a data sheet to celebrate leaving.

Anyways, provided you can ramble well enough, there are girls who are willing to least share a phone number. That said, my previous stats (I always kept track of my approaches and outcomes) show that I had to make 10 - 20 approaches to get a phone number, and only about 1 in 5 of my numbers actually led to dates, so it was always a numbers game (yes, it took me 50 - 100 approaches to get 1 date).

Otherwise, I just followed the method outlined by Roosh in his book, 'Day Bang'. Nothing special or unique about except that I was willing to approach everywhere - bus, train, supermarket, mall, coffee shop, mcdonalds, street. One of the hottest chicks I ever got a number from was from waiting in the line at the mcdonalds in Hatfield. From sheer fake confidence, a willingness to learn how to hold a conversation, a willingness to spend mind-numbingly long and boring hours at various venues trying to find a girl to approach, and the sheer force of numbers, I got somewhere.

That said, one huge factor that was in my favour was that I really don't care about race. I hit on every race of chick I could, provided I found something about her attractive. This gave me a lot more opportunities to practice conversation skills. Limiting yourself to Afrikaans women definitely makes the potential dating pool super small.

Afrikaans women seem to only want to date Afrikaans guys or foreigners, although I have pulled numbers out of them on days that my game was more on point that usual. Follow up on the numbers was more difficult, but I think my follow-up game was poor. I did notice that they do find religion super-important, because Afrikaans girls are the only girls who start asking about your church within minutes of a good approach. I think having a solid Christian background helps a lot of with daygaming Afrikaner girls. They are more likely to date you if they can imagine themselves going to church with you, it seems.

[pirate]

Would read and rep your Pretoria datasheet.

Despite my earlier complaints, I'm convinced Pretoria is full of fit Afrikaans/English girls.

We should go for a drink when I return to RSA, if you're keen.

[XPQ22]

(02-09-2017 10:23 AM)Thomas the Rhymer Wrote:  

You asked for my details: I'm South African, English speaker. I've lived in Pretoria for too long, this is my 17th year, and I'm fed up of the place and I'm planning to leave the place this year. I'm thinking of dropping a data sheet to celebrate leaving.

Anyways, provided you can ramble well enough, there are girls who are willing to least share a phone number. That said, my previous stats (I always kept track of my approaches and outcomes) show that I had to make 10 - 20 approaches to get a phone number, and only about 1 in 5 of my numbers actually led to dates, so it was always a numbers game (yes, it took me 50 - 100 approaches to get 1 date).

Funny, if I were good at keeping statistics (I'm not) my results here in the greater Boston area would probably come out about the same. Maybe around 100 approaches to get two lays from night game over the past year and a half.

In my experience girls you direct approach that you manage to get out on a date are way more ready to put out than the average online dating girl - they're very into you. Most of the girls I hooked up with were from online, and while you get more dates that way it's always extremely hit or miss and most times it was anyone's guess how it was going to play out until I was either packing it in after it went nowhere, or taking her back to her apartment.

People disparage online but I pulled some real stunners from it who weren't just playing games - they're out there. And I never once settled for banging a real hog or a girl without a pretty face. But, on average, you'll meet more attractive women out in the real world.

(02-08-2017 05:27 AM)pirate Wrote:  

@XPQ22

Thank you for your very detailed, point by point rebuttal of my mental masturbation. I do not agree with everything you said, but you are certainly correct that there is a lot of All-or-nothing thinking in my post. +1 from me- it is rare to be given such personalized advice from a stranger.

You're welcome. I felt I was too harsh in a few places, I didn't mean to insinuate all your values were BS. What I meant was that it's a losing proposition to imagine you can divine other people's thoughts about you. I love going out solo, and I talk to lots of different people when I'm out, men and women alike. I almost never think to myself "Oh, this guy, this guy is the awkward PUA in the bar that's putting up a front." It simply doesn't register at that level, and I think women are much the same way. They're out at the club to have a few drinks, some conversation, and maybe meet a cool guy.

Unless you're completely off-the-wall like the Asperger's kid with the Pokemon backpack that turns up in front of the strip to try to get women to play Go with him every weekend, I just don't think they're analyzing things at the level you think they're analyzing them.

It's too bad more people don't take a minute to talk with that kid, he's hilarious, frankly. Probably has a way better chance of taking a girl home than some of the angry guys I see out there...