[AntiMediocrity]

I've always dated girls with guy friends who are obviously interested in her. They never tell them where to go because:

a) They're oblivious
b) They're too nice
or c) They're extroverted and as a result find it difficult to call off friendships

My strategy has been to just play it off, say things like "Poor guy" when the girl has to postpone meetings with them. This obviously avoids jealousy signals, and kind of patronises the dude in question. At least as far as I'm concerned.

However, the problem lies in when I inevitably explain to each girl that her male friend(s) are romantically interested in her, and if the girls think otherwise they are, to quote myself "Naive". This usually begets a negative reaction, I'm wondering if

a) there's any justification behind said reaction
and
b) I should be more tactful regarding the subject regardless of a)

I've never apologised for saying it, by the way.

Anyway it's just happened with my current girl; a Portuguese contact of hers has asked her to go dancing and she refused, but she wants to have contact with him for German speaking purposes. They were supposed to meet this week but she has cancelled twice, leading me to write/text "poor guy" and it resulted in the orbiter discussion (I didn't use any relevant terminology).

She got angry at being called naive, and I haven't responded back yet. I usually don't respond to negative emotion, instead letting them cool off.

What kind of approach should I be taking regarding girls who have guy friends but are unaware about guy friends pursuing them? Am I right in calling them out on it and should just be more tactful about it?

Thanks in advance for responses.

[RatInTheWoods]

I don't think you can bring it up, its only going to antagonise her.

She isn't naive, she knows exactly what's going on, and enjoys the attention. Calling her out on it will just piss her off and make you look jealous.

It is a red flag, and you need to be vigilant, one day she gunna bang them.

[Serious Sam]

Never get serious with a girl with tons of guy friends.

The naivety shtick is as old as time. She is not naive, she knows what's up. The guy asked her to go dancing and has tried to meet up with her a couple other times in a week. The whole naivety act is simply something she does to pretend like she doesn't enjoy all the attention she's receiving. It's also a ploy so you'll let your guard down, thinking she's shrugging them off while she fucks around behind your back.

She wants to keep in touch for "German speaking purposes?" That's one of the bull-shittiest lines I've ever heard. If she hasn't fucked him, she has at least considered it, and she's flaunting her relationship with him to test you. Don't fall into her trap. The best thing you could have done was shrugged it off and acted like she never mentioned it. Now you've had a full blown conversation about it, and that in and of itself hints at jealousy.

I'd avoid getting too close to this one. It sounds like trouble.

[Rocha]

More things that get me off regarding your post, but I will just point these two:

1 - Your dating a girl that meets other guys without you being present...

2- She texts you (boyfriend I am supposing) that she flaked on some guy !?? and you reply saying "poor guy"!??


I am not sure who is more "naive"...but I have a feeling that is not the girl.

Sorry if I pass by rude in this post, but I think you should question other stuff, than simply "Should I be more tactful regarding orbiters?".

[BetaNoMore]

OP,

As others have mentioned, this is a huge red flag and proceeding is ill-advised.

You cannot tell any woman what to do. Doing so will make you "controlling" and "abusive." Even though they know the score and feign innocence, I presume that these male "friends" were there before you so it's even more unreasonable for you to expect her to drop them just because you want her to. These chicks are not relationship material.

They're also good at shifting the goal posts. I dated a chick like this and at first, she said if her close male friend showed interest while dating me, she'd cut him out. After a few months of being in a committed relationship with her, this male orbiter posts an intimate picture of the two of them together in an intimate pose (before I met her) on his social media, and in the caption, negged her and said he "misses his friend." I called her out on it and you know what she said? "It doesn't matter if any of my guy friends like me as long as I don't like them that way!"

Just cut your losses.

[AntiMediocrity]

I Just clarifying a few things, no other points of contention.

(01-26-2017 05:53 PM)Serious Sam Wrote:  

She wants to keep in touch for "German speaking purposes?"

She used to be fluent in German, but now only uses it in her Emails at work and she's losing touch with the language as a result.

That's the same reason a girl was seeing me one on one for a couple of months last year, for English. She also had a boyfriend. It's relatively common practice in this country because of the lack of diversity and prevalence of national girls trying to leverage language pursuits for career purposes.

Rocha Wrote:

1 - Your dating a girl that meets other guys without you being present...

2- She texts you (boyfriend I am supposing) that she flaked on some guy !?? and you reply saying "poor guy"!??

1. When you have a language exchange you don't bring partners, because it defeats the purpose and they won't understand anything. I am meeting girls for Polish myself without her for that reason.

It's also one guy in this case. But that doesn't make a difference, just clarifying.

2. She is very open with me on everything, this guy included and they were supposed to meet once this week for a language
exchange. He wanted to go dancing as well, according to her in which she refused.

Her telling me she "flaked" was more like "I'm staying home now, not meeting him in the end because 8pm is too late for me", he wanted to meet the next night which she agreed to but then decided it was too late again so she cancelled again and once again informed me about it. Just keeping me in the loop.

Meanwhile with me even before we were dating she was meeting me late at night, and wanting to see me for even half an hour if I was busy. I know the lengths she goes to if she likes a guy and wouldn't cancel an 8pm meeting.

To paraphrase I wrote "Poor guy, he's interested in you but you're clearly not because you're not making time for him. He must be pretty disappointed". Perhaps this approach should be altered, I'm doing it because it shows I don't consider him a threat but I'm well aware of his intentions (perhaps reminding her of them too).
__________________

Gents please don't focus too much on my ongoing situation. I'm being wary about that guy but considering I have my own female friends, she has a legitimate reason for keeping in touch with him and me not being there, it's common to have friends of both sexes in Polish culture, and other circumstances I'm not necessarily needing advice in that respect - although it's appreciated. You're welcome to ask further questions if you must.

I just need to know if I'm going about it wrong telling girls that they're naive for not realising a guys intentions and should I be more tactful about it. Because they always get offended by it, even if they're just a friend.

Quote:

You cannot tell any woman what to do. Doing so will make you "controlling" and "abusive." Even though they know the score and feign innocence, I presume that these male "friends" were there before you so it's even more unreasonable for you to expect her to drop them just because you want her to. These chicks are not relationship material.

I've never told a GF to drop male friends for precisely what you stated. My strategy has been to point out that they're in love with/have a thing for her, and one day they'll come out about it. And she should call it off if the idea of that makes her uncomfortable.

They never concur, and the guy always comes out with feelings down the line.

I wouldn't want her to drop male friends because it would mean having to drop my own female friends.

[LeoneVolpe]

You don't have to worry about her dropping her male friend(s) for you, it's not going to happen. Don't be surprised if she asks you to stop hanging out with your female friends at some point, though. Girls have no problem being hypocrites. If she does this, tell her to fuck straight off -- What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Of course she'll claim "it's totally different" but it's not. You know it, I know it, everybody knows it...including her.

If it were me, I'd relegate this chick from main bitch to "spinning plate" status. Don't get serious about a girl 'til she's given you something worth getting serious about.

[AntiMediocrity]

(01-27-2017 03:17 AM)LeoneVolpe Wrote:  

If it were me, I'd relegate this chick from main bitch to "spinning plate" status. Don't get serious about a girl 'til she's given you something worth getting serious about.

I didn't mention any positives about her because this thread isn't "What should I do about this girl". However because everyone is speaking of dropping her, I'll list her redeeming qualities:

-From the beginning she was always proposing meetings - makes effort
-She has no qualms buying me random gifts, from food to Polish language materials, sometimes even cooks me long-term food
-She is always willing to apologise for transgressions
-Has paid for dinners out, on times I want to pay she still tries to pay her half, pay for the drinks or buy a round at the next place
-Takes care of her body
-Hasn't taken a selfie for years, Social Media presence inc. Facebook is null
-Extremely caring and nurturing. I dislocated my shoulder on Monday, her response was to leave work early and come and see me in the hospital. Then she insisted I sleep at hers for the next few days, showered and clothed me even though I insist I'm capable. I have a referral to an orthopaedist in 10 days and she's spent time calling places, going to them after work and calling the hospital to find out as much information as possible. I haven't even asked for any assistance but she's doing it anyway even though we've only been dating a couple of months.
-She doesn't go clubbing and scarcely drinks. Never has benders
-Is extremely interested in my hobbies and wants to be involved with them
-Has her own passions (drawing for example) and is able to have intellectual discussions as long as there's no language barrier

Red flags so far:

-Typical unaware of orbiter or at least claims innocence of him
-She has hangups about her body
-Is a "I don't mind", "what is best for you?" kind of girl (indecisive)
-Her insecurities and hangups have meant everytime we get to the next base she questions it internally, feeling like we're going too fast
-Not aggressive in bed, completely submissive. I like to have both sides
-She was supposed to get married in September, but broke up with him in June because he was cheating on her. This has left her quite fragile regarding relationships.

Considering that the others red flags are not relationship breakers, and the green flags, I'm not going to end things just because one guy is encroaching on my territory. It's unjustified. I also consider her post accident actions to be "giving something worth being serious about".

I have to wait things out and see if her interest appears to shuffle at all.

I thank you for the upfront responses, for what it's worth. I don't want to seem like The OP Who Wants to Read Positive Things.

[Steve McQueen]

I would just play things cool, pretend like he's not in the frame and ignore plans she makes with him. Treat it like hes one of her girlfriends, if she sees that you are jealous she will continue as it gives her power over you. Essentially male friends are a giant shit test, at present you are failing and need to course correct.

[Sensei Creation]

Please read your original post again.

She made plans to go dancing with another guy...

Yes she flaked..Out of respect for her relationship ? No because it was too late for her...lol.

Then once you call her out on it she gets mad ?

Instant FB downgrade... even better next her completely.

[XXL]

(01-26-2017 04:26 PM)AntiMediocrity Wrote:  

What kind of approach should I be taking regarding girls who have guy friends but are unaware about guy friends pursuing them? Am I right in calling them out on it and should just be more tactful about it?

Why do you want to be one telling tell girl that there is no santa and engage is stupid discussion in the first place? Of course she's gonna say "yeah.. right.. you're just jealous.. besides they're not as shallow as you..."

If she's hot then what you're saying is right. But what's the point? What's in it for you?

[AntiMediocrity]

(01-27-2017 12:35 PM)Sensei Creation Wrote:  

She made plans to go dancing with another guy...

Yes she flaked..Out of respect for her relationship ? No because it was too late for her...lol.

Then once you call her out on it she gets mad ?

Instant FB downgrade... even better next her completely.

Serious question, is English your first language?

From the OP:

Original post Wrote:

a Portuguese contact of hers has asked her to go dancing and she refused

In simple terms - She has a male "friend" - a German language partner - who asked her to go dancing and she refused. She agreed to meet for language exchange only, but cancelled (twice) because it was too late in the evening for her.

She got mad because I called her naive (for not acknowledging his intentions fully), I don't think it about mattered about context. Girls hate certain words and naive appears to be one of them in my experience.

Please don't go around telling people to re-read their posts when it's your own comprehension that is lacking.

XXL Wrote:

What's in it for you?

I dunno man, when I have something to say I say it and even moreso to a girl I'm dating. I figure if she can't take something I say we're not meant to be. But perhaps in this instance I should be more tactful, because it's pissed every girl off.

I'm waiting for that moment when I say it and their response is "you're right, I'm dropping him out of my social life". Even a "you're right" would suffice.

Apparently it's never going to happen.

Thanks for responding to the question.

[Resolute]

OP:

I'm new here, and I don't want to be------"untactful", but when so many men who have much longer tenures in this forum have given such excellent, wise advice, and yet you still want to say "but no, it's MY FAULT, this girl is amazing!" I feel I must speak up:

YOU'RE GETTING PLAYED!

Is she sleeping with her orbiters right now? Probably not. But women are like monkeys----They grab a new branch before letting go of the old one. The reason she keeps orbiters around is NOT for "language practice" it's NOT because they were "childhood friends" it's NOT because they are "like a brother" to her----it is, plain and simple, so that she ALWAYS has a back-up plan for when she decides she's tired of you and wants to fuck someone else. When that day comes, and with this girl, it WILL-----she WILL fuck one or more of these orbiters, I can promise you. And then you'll come back to the forum and bitch about it, but what can we say? We tried to warn you.

Can women be "just friends" with guys? There are arguments for and against. I'm undecided. Here's what I KNOW:

Any woman who is in a relationship and doesn't let her guy friends know where the line is drawn DESIRES the sexual attention of these men and most likely will eventually sleep with one or more of them, likely during the course of your relationship.

If she was truly loyal, she'd keep her guy friends, BUT she would let them know SHE'S TAKEN and that flirting with her is not acceptable. Your girl is not doing that. It's not because she's an amazing sweet perfect 10 unicorn sent from heaven, it's because she likes having back ups.

Again, as the others have said in a much more "tactful" way previously:

YOU'RE BEING PLAYED.

[AntiMediocrity]

(01-28-2017 04:34 AM)Resolute Wrote:  

you still want to say "but no, it's MY FAULT, this girl is amazing!"

Where have I wrote anything along those lines?

In my second post I have written I have no contention people's arguments, however wanted to clarify a few things about my current girl because rather than address my question they sought to jump on the "sluts are going to slut" train without knowing anything beyond what is presented in the OP - which I intentionally limited because this is a general question about an issue I've come across each time.

Once again this is not a "wut do with my gf" thread. I thought perhaps there was a better approach than calling girls naive for apparently being unaware of a guys intentions and this is the best place to ask. I've had good advice here ITT, and on the contrary "dump her" is rather jumping the gun considering every other aspect of her. Not to mention users are saying "dump her" when they're not even reading my OP properly.

She's making phone calls to clinics and hospitals asking for information and trying to set up an appointment for my check up, going to pharmacies and buying pain killers then coming here just to pass them on even though she's supposed to be with family - not to mention bringing me food both cooked by her and them.

She's doing everything she can as a partner within reason, I'm not going to next her because of a male language partner who she isn't going out of her way to see. I myself have a female language partner, who is texting me everyday even for small talk and wants to meet often. Should my GF break up with me?

Have you ever learned a language to fluency, then worked in a job where you don't use it conversationally and a result you lose your grasp on it? I haven't yet but I can imagine it's a pretty crap feeling and I'd lock on to conversational opportunities while I could.

I'm aware of all the things that have been repeated here regarding monkey branching, back ups etc. And I'm being wary as a result. Trust me. I'm especially wary that he's Portuguese, Latinos are especially reason for caution.

Quote:

Any woman who is in a relationship and doesn't let her guy friends know where the line is drawn DESIRES the sexual attention of these men and most likely will eventually sleep with one or more of them, likely during the course of your relationship.

If she was truly loyal, she'd keep her guy friends, BUT she would let them know SHE'S TAKEN and that flirting with her is not acceptable. Your girl is not doing that.

She drew the line. Told him dancing is not something they can do together. Only coffee and for German practice. I'm failing to see how multiple users missed this key aspect of the situation unless there's a language barrier.

In hindsight I shouldn't have been mentioned my GF but I wanted to provide context and anticipated people to stick to the topic rather than derail it. Some people did stick to it, and I appreciate them for that. Others are leaving advice regarding my relationship, which is legit advice and I appreciate it still even though it wasn't asked for. The remainder are acting like she's an American woman riding the cock carousel and misreading my posts. Perhaps my sea of text isn't helping with regards to that, but having to write He asked and she refused over and over is really not conducive to the thread at all.

[Sensei Creation]

Sigh... What you don't seem to understand is that after he asked her to go out dancing, out of respect for her relationship, she should not be agreeing to any thing this guy suggests.

She said no to dancing but is OK with "Coffee" and German lessons" ?

She's playing you bruh.

[Sensei Creation]

And I'd just like to add that this is exactly how guys end up losing frame in a relationship. They get blatingly disrespected and then try andifferent rationalise it away by listing all of her redeeming qualities.

I don't care how many cakes she's baking if she's not respecting you that's a severe red flag.

[AntiMediocrity]

As I said Sensei, I'm being wary of the situation. We haven't spent any time together since Wednesday apart from her taking time away from family just to drop off painkillers and I'm not going to discuss it over text any more nor over a 10 minute window.

I appreciate your upfrontedness but don't act like I'm completely oblivious to circumstances revolving around orbiters. At the end of the day if he keeps chasing her and she continues to contact him in spite of that I know it's going to be a huge blot on the relationship and not worth the hassle even if she remains loyal.

Don't worry about me dude

[Resolute]

Hey Anti,

Thanks for the clarification. So that I'm also clear, I wasn't suggesting you "next" her. Some problems within a relationship "frame" can be fixed----some cannot. This might be able to be resolved. But as Sensei said, she needs to RESPECT you. When you tell her there's a problem, and one that is a LEGITIMATE ONE, and she shrugs it off, you're not being respected.

You seem to think that simply moving to another country/culture is a fix all to the issues American women possess. As Roosh said, "Water takes the shape of the container it fills." When you allow this behavior, it will continue. If you were ok with that, you wouldn't be here asking for advice.

You also made the mistake of comparing apples to oranges-----men and women are NOT the same. Yes, you SHOULD be flirting with other girls. You SHOULD be "practicing languages" with female friends. She should NOT. Why? Because any woman----even the most obese, disgusting, wouldn't fuck with your worst enemies dick, can get laid at will anytime she pleases. The same CANNOT be said for men. It's not comparable, not even close.

I don't want to go into a huge post, because so many men with far greater knowledge, experience, and education have stated it much better than I ever could, but suffice it to say this: Women and men are different on a physical, psychological, and BIOLOGICAL level, so there is no equal comparison, period. In short, if she fucks someone else, she might get pregnant. You won't. You're also less likely to contract STD's than a woman, due to several biological differences, such as the size of the hole in your penis vs her vagina. These FACTS make your moral argument completely irrelevant.


In summary: I never said dump her. I said her behavior is a problem that should be corrected and gave my reasons for believing such. Are EE better than American women? Absolutely. Are they still women? YES. Thus, they are fallible, and YOU as a MAN are REQUIRED to GUIDE AND CORRECT THEM when they get off course. Fail to do so at your own peril.

I get it, I really do. you found an awesome girl you really like, and possibly the idea of marriage or children has popped into your mind at some point. Maybe it was as you were cumming while fucking her, but I'm sure it's happened at least once, based on your defensiveness. But the reality is that NO WOMAN is perfect, ever, period. Just like you can buy a million dollar car but it still needs oil changes, maintenance, brake changes, tire rotations, etc, so the same can be said for women. You WILL have to correct undesirable behavior, not matter WHAT nationality she comes from, no matter WHAT her family background. Women will ALWAYS be women. Humans will always be human. We are flawed. It's YOUR job to help her be the BEST woman she can be while you're with her. If you aren't up for the task, I assure you she'll let you know, likely in a way that will hurt you deeply.

I'll leave it at that......

[Filbert]

(01-28-2017 12:56 PM)Resolute Wrote:  

Hey Anti,


You also made the mistake of comparing apples to oranges-----men and women are NOT the same. Yes, you SHOULD be flirting with other girls. You SHOULD be "practicing languages" with female friends. She should NOT. Why? Because any woman----even the most obese, disgusting, wouldn't fuck with your worst enemies dick, can get laid at will anytime she pleases. The same CANNOT be said for men. It's not comparable, not even close.

I'll leave it at that......

Unless they agree to an open relationship, in which case they can date multiple other chicks/dudes, without committing to one person. Which seems perfect!

[262]

Hey man,

Any girl worth her salt is going to have orbiters she's oblivious to. Like others have said, confronting her about it directly won't work, since girls keep backup guys around on autopilot (they can't help it), and girls also prefer to communicate indirectly rather than directly.

What nobody has suggested yet is that you should be making it seem to her like YOU have female orbiters. You don't do this directly, that's too try-hard. You do it in a variety of indirect ways:

- Omitting the gender of the people you meet in conversation with her
- Lifting and dressing better
- Not being as responsive when she does something you don't like - by focusing on something else positive, rather than being butt hurt, most importantly
- Being "big brother" friendly to other girls, especially in front of her

The overall idea here is to increase your value as a man, such that her orbiters pale in comparison. You'll know you're doing it right when she seems to work even harder to get your attention.

IMO a bit of reddit "red pill" in this thread, rather than RvF.

[Vill@in]

(02-01-2017 05:23 AM)262 Wrote:  

Hey man,

Any girl worth her salt is going to have orbiters she's oblivious to. Like others have said, confronting her about it directly won't work, since girls keep backup guys around on autopilot (they can't help it), and girls also prefer to communicate indirectly rather than directly.

What nobody has suggested yet is that you should be making it seem to her like YOU have female orbiters. You don't do this directly, that's too try-hard. You do it in a variety of indirect ways:

- Omitting the gender of the people you meet in conversation with her
- Lifting and dressing better
- Not being as responsive when she does something you don't like - by focusing on something else positive, rather than being butt hurt, most importantly
- Being "big brother" friendly to other girls, especially in front of her

The overall idea here is to increase your value as a man, such that her orbiters pale in comparison. You'll know you're doing it right when she seems to work even harder to get your attention.

IMO a bit of reddit "red pill" in this thread, rather than RvF.

Yeah I'm going to agree with this. Especially the bolded part. You have to have a idgaf attitude....and really mean it. Who gives a shit if she has male orbiters? Are you still fucking her? Yes? Then it doesn't matter. Don't act jealous and let it bother you. That's weakness. (And I'm not saying you ARE jealous, but the mere fact that you're commenting on it to her let's her know it's at least on your mind).

Let her get the attention she needs from these beta guppies and don't let it bother you. I'm going to disagree with some of the above posters and say she WON'T fuck any one of them. Mainly because females usually decide in the first five minutes if she is going to fuck a guy or cast him into orbit to shower her with attention with the promise of pussy he'll never get. There are exceptions to this of course, but usually at least in my experiences, she subconsciously sees these guys as unworthy and....well, pathetic.

[Fortis]

You don't have anything to really win by antagonizing her about it. I use this as a test. If a chick mentions that dude too much I take it as a sign that she might be up to something. This is with non-girlfriends though. if it's my GF then they usually get rid of guy friends for the most part. The irony is that I really don't care. If some dude can pull some chick from out under me then she sure as hell wasn't my GF in the first place.

Whenever a girl mentions her guy friends I just say "cool" and ask a few obligatory questions and see if the guy might actually be useful for something down the line. Also, sometimes I don't mind bringing the dude along if my girl invites a bunch of girls to come get dinner with us or something. Gives me someone to talk with and sometimes helps me shove girls off on the guy if they're getting annoying.

This is China, though. Chicks actually have platonic guy friends and most of the locals are pretty harmless: no game, no physique, no style. The other side of this coin is that some dudes have a low opinion of chicks who date foreigners so if she has some local dude hanging out with us I don't sweat it.

[General Stalin]

If she has dudes she talks to/hangs out with that she isn't banging then who cares. Keep banging her.

Now if you are trying to build some sort of committed exclusive relationship with such a girl, then don't. You should have no business being with a girl in any sort of non-casual fashion who is rolling around with dudes who want to bang her.

[XXL]

(01-28-2017 02:17 AM)AntiMediocrity Wrote:  

XXL Wrote:

What's in it for you?

I dunno man, when I have something to say I say it and even moreso to a girl I'm dating. I figure if she can't take something I say we're not meant to be. But perhaps in this instance I should be more tactful, because it's pissed every girl off.

I'm waiting for that moment when I say it and their response is "you're right, I'm dropping him out of my social life". Even a "you're right" would suffice.

Apparently it's never going to happen.

That's the dilemma of life

Whether to say what's on your mind and feel good despite it might make your life harder or to keep your shit to yourself for the sake of making your life easier.

[MVPnis]

She knows exactly what she's doing with the orbiters. Trust me, she's fucked or is fucking some of them. Like said above, make her a plate and don't take her serious.

I Don't touch the subject until I have a woman seriously Dick whipped , have total frame control and She's pushing for commitment.. that's when I'll talk orbiters. Then and only then will a woman agree to drop them....and if she doesn't, it's a great excuse not to commit...and if she does, I don't commit anyway! I tell her she has to work harder for it.