[Phoenix]

I was considering just posting this in the lounge thread, but based on similar sentiment I've heard from some other members, about hoping to see a move away from politics following Trump's victory, perhaps others might want to post their own affirmations here too.

I recently posted a thread attempting to provoke intellectual discussion on the proper role/form of education for women. That seemed to push a bit outside of the Overton window, provoking quite a few ad-hominem balks, somewhat (extremely mildly) reminiscent of what Roosh's infamous article got from the mainstream. That surprised me a little, but it got me thinking about my intent in raising the question and how I was spending my time and thoughts. Do I really have the luxury to be pondering these questions? Is it appropriate to be investing further time in such debates to further refine my political position and answer such cultural questions, given the other things I need to do?

The answer I came to is basically: no, I don't. Politics, philosophy, culture and so on, should not be important to me given other things I need to be focusing on, and given that my understanding of those things is now clear enough anyway.

So henceforth I commit to abstain from any and all political discussion on this forum for the duration of 2017; with the exception of anything directly, currently and personally affecting me. If I breach this feel free to call me a phaggot and post a link to this thread.

This thread is not in any way meant to criticize other members who enjoy participating in political discussions or who consider politics to be important and a valuable part of this forum. It is merely an affirmation of my own commitment for the year, as I know posting this will force me to stick to it on pain of being called out. If you want to join this 'no politics wagon' for the year feel free to post your own affirmation here too.

[McCarthy]

I join the "no politics wagon" as well. Both here and ROK.

Nihilism to the max.

[Roosh]

The problem with goals like this is that when you try to abstain from something, it's still on your mind, sometimes to a greater degree than when you participated. You may quit talking or writing about it in public, but political ideas will still continue mentally. This is what I'm facing right now with my Twitter break. I'm not participating, but I do still go often to the site to catch up. The answer seems to be the middle path of moderation, where you recognize you are prone to excess but put limits that don't require such will that you'll regress back and feel ashamed for it.

[Leonard D Neubache]

Personally I still have a lot to learn, and a lot of the time I'm learning by being refuted by smarter members.

I can't be refuted if I don't engage, but I'm certainly looking to tone down the sheer volume of it.

[cascadecombo]

Quote:

I recently posted a thread attempting to provoke intellectual discussion on the proper role/form of education for women.

Quote:

That seemed to push a bit outside of the Overton window, provoking quite a few ad-hominem balks, ...That surprised me a little

That sort of surprises me, ask a question about restricting the capabilities of a person. Something rather important to others and most wouldn't consider such a question, and then being surprised at how others to react to a question they never would have considered posing. Not trying to reopen that whole topic though.

I myself make a point to avoid the politics thread unless I'm linked to something outrageous. my whole take on that goes down to how I view the world around me. There is a great anecdote about that.

When I was a young man, I wanted to change the world.

I found it was difficult to change the world, so I tried to change my nation.

When I found I couldn't change the nation, I began to focus on my town. I couldn't change the town and as an older man, I tried to change my family.

Now, as an old man, I realize the only thing I can change is myself, and suddenly I realize that if long ago I had changed myself, I could have made an impact on my family. My family and I could have made an impact on our town. Their impact could have changed the nation and I could indeed have changed the world.

Author: Unknown Monk 1100 A.D.

[storm]

I'll miss reading your insight on politics Phoenix, the politics subforum will be worse for your absence.

[Atlanta Man]

I get the no more politics angle, but philosophy is pretty important to development and outlook. I wish you the best on your endeavor of mental discipline.

[Dusty]

Trying not to post on a political thread.

[Parzival]

When you talk about politics, the cultural war with the intention do make a difference, change something you will be disappointed. I'm mainly active in the migrant invasion. Not direct because I will make a big difference. I do it for me. A lot of things from the news don't bother my personal life direct, so why spent my time to read, discuss and so on about topics where I mostly never till take any action? Is it a waste of time?
I'm not blind to the world that surrounds me. Things that don't affect me direct can have a long term effect in the long run. For this politics helps me. It also helps me for orientation in my own life, the little difference I can do is my personal thinking and behaviour. This is also what this Forum is about. Self improvement. To be aware about political effects, the cultural war helps to make a stand and orientation in my own life. Also it helps to think about long term effects and creates more value for me because I don't become a puppet that easy. When I see stuff in the media I see mostly the intention behind it. Of course avoid it all, read only books set you out of this too. Still at the end things will come to you.

The main intention for me to participate in politics is to sharpen my mind, to understand situations and long term effects. This helps me to live my life with better purpose. Also it helps me to prepare and may be even aware for radical changes in society that will hit most people like a rock. I maybe can doge away.
Whats also important for me, when stuff that bothers me. Where I just can't ignore it even that I'm aware I can't change it, it helps me to talk about it. Have a political discussion helps me to release some stuff. I can ignore the downfall of my country to just a certain degree. Its know when you talk about stuff it ease the tension inside you.

[Valentine]

By understanding politics you understand society, and by understanding society you learn more about the psychology of women and your fellow man.

I agree to not getting too involved in the day-to-day political squabbles, but some of the most enlightening moments of the past year for me have come from reading and posting in such threads.

It's also a brilliant form of procrastination. If you don't use this as an outlet then you may opt for a less beneficial activity. Because keep in mind it's near impossible to not procrastinate at least some of the time, so if your vices are learning and discussing the world around you I could think of far worse ways to live.

[Sooth]

I agree. It doesn't benefit me to know more about politics than politicians considering I never plan on making a living in politics. The time I spend learning is mostly wasted on this subject. Having an understanding deeper than 95% of people is enough.

Politics is the dirtiest faction of humanity, especially the way opposing parties confront it. Religion has an air of reverence surrounding it that both parties generally understand however politics has no such thing. That's why politics is somewhat addicting, because it's a pure form of drama.

I was thinking about getting off the forum completely, but from past experience I agree with what Roosh says regarding moderation. The political discussion here is only a tiny portion of the forum, the rest being a highly valuable archive. To jump out completely would be throwing the baby out with the bath water.

It's good to see there are others who recognise this too, and hopefully 2017 will be a great year on the forum for getting back to self improvement with the added benefit of gained knowledge and experience a year long political battle brings.

[Samseau]

In an ideal world we'd never need politics. But nothing affects your Neighbors more than politics. If you care about God and Neighbor, then you'll always be interested in politics.

Casca, your poem is out of date. It now reads like this:

Quote:

When I was a young man, I wanted to change the world.

I found it was difficult to change the world, so I tried to change my nation.

We shitposted on the internet. We created memes. We got Trump elected and changed the world.

Before the internet one man felt powerless. But now anyone with good writing skills can influence millions of other men. The internet has changed the world forever and the genie isn't going back into the bottle.

Being political today has more rewards than ever before.

That said, I co-sign on moderation. I for one will be focusing heavily on personal development over politics in 2017.

[John Michael Kane]

Some may not be able to quit politics could turkey. My suggestion is that if you're not actively engaged in some job that requires you to be up to date about the most minute of political intrigue, just schedule ten minutes a day to read the headlines, set a timer, and close out all your browser tabs once it goes off. Prevent yourself from going down the sinkhole of political time wasting, which quite honestly, is what most discussions on politics really are. If you focus on building up your finances and career, you can affect change more directly than posting long threads on political theory.

[Samseau]

(01-01-2017 11:24 PM)John Michael Kane Wrote:  

If you focus on building up your finances and career, you can affect change more directly than posting long threads on political theory.

Especially when your side is in power. Agitating for change makes sense if you're the underdog, but once things are in motion there is less time for talk.

[Sp5]

Sign me up. Good idea, I always respected the OP for standing up for me when I got suspended for this thread on migration. I note that Roosh has since read The Camp of the Saints, and reviewed it, agreeing with my thesis in that thread that the book was prescient.

I'm done, including posting on this thread. I just posted my last comments on the Holocaust thread and the Pizzagate thread. A good 2017 resolution.

When I joined RVF a couple of years ago, Roosh and Tuthmosis were posting some funny truths and trolling the world of fat, tattooed, short-haired, selfie-obsessed girls.

There were great new stories in the Travel section everyday, and a lot of good information in the Game and lifestyle and fitness sections. Any man was welcome to participate, there wasn't a political or racial orthodoxy which could be discerned.

The shift into a particular brand of politics, particularly the "race realism" and Jew-baiting, hasn't been good. I don't even know what "alt-right" stands for.

There have been some high-repped members who used to post good stuff in Travel and Game who are gone, some of them Jews. I don't know why they disappeared. I had PMs with some of the Jews on the Jew threads.

It's not up to me to defend the Jews, but fair is fair. I had some great Jewish teachers in HS, one was an OSS veteran of WWII. I also got hired by a couple of old-school Jewish shopkeepers who were cool, and my professional mentors in the law were Jewish. Plus Seinfeld, Danny Elfman, Kirk Douglas, and Carly Simon.

I've had experience with a lot of different people, just because of age and career. The bravest guy I ever met was a Muslim Iraqi police officer who knew he was facing certain death and kept doing his job until he got killed, so I can't rant about "Muslims." I served with some great black officers and NCOs in the military. One of my after work drinking buddies as a criminal defense lawyer was a lesbian feminist lawyer who carried a concealed semiauto. It takes all kinds. I also got exposed to scum and idiots of all types in the criminal courts.

I'm an old Cold Warrior, a JFK liberal who still believes in the US Constitution, liberty and equality under law. Maybe only iknowexactly is of the same type here now, because of age. We've been around.

Anonymity is great, but it has a big issue. If you were sitting in a park, you wouldn't get in an argument with a Down's Syndrome kid or homeless schizophrenic over whether 1 + 0 = 1 or 1 + 0 = 10. On the internet, you might be arguing with the functional equivalent, a nut or barely-educated basement dweller, but you don't know it. Why bother?

I'm cool with anyone posting their stuff. I'm a First Amendment absolutist, and it's not my forum. Let Samseau and Scorpion post away. But it's not my forum, and Roosh has endorsed the Kevin MacDonald stuff, so . . I've been around the internet long enough to see what happens. Last year on other commenting platforms, I got banned from 3 sites for supporting Trump. I don't do ad-hominems or obscene rants, I just dissented from the prevailing current on those pages and got banned for saying things like "Hillary is a warmonger."

What happens is, you get a prevailing trend. It gets endorsed by the moderators.

The balance of forum participants tips to one extreme, as others leave due to disgust at the barrage of racial subject matter. Some people flip out when they perceive attacks on their group. Then the remaining majority of active members start to flag and call out dissenting views as trolls. The moderators start to have a flexible definition of "trolling," and look at the posts of the "dissenters" more critically, looking for a reason to suspend or ban them. After awhile, the place becomes an echo chamber.

Extreme politics also leads to an even more extreme reaction from the outside world with DDOS attacks and hacking attempts. "I'm not a robot," "Select all squares with storefronts." You avoid discussion with personal information on PMs, demur from posting a data sheet because there are demented doxxers out there.

I don't know if RVF will totally become an echo chamber. All I know is I'm not going to try to find out. I have other things to do.

So, in conclusion:

Happy New Year, especially to the haters!

[bushcraft9]

Well done pheonix. One should not be getting involved with the drama that politics brings, but taking meaningful action which will help you. Look to develop a brotherhood of men who you have real bonds with. This is important for both when there is a crisis or when there isn't a crisis. Look to develop skills that will enable you to live independently outside off society I.e. how to fish/hunt etc. It is important that you recognise the situation of the world which is on an ever greater March towards a police state, but once that has been recognised you have to stop there with research and begin to take action that will help you. I am starting a brotherhood in Nottingham UK, read the meetup forum in the travel forum for more details.

[Sherman]

This is why the liberals, leftists, and SJWs are going to ultimately win. They are fanatical and never quit. They are willing to go to North Dakota and put up camps in the dead of winter to protest the pipeline. They are driven by their passion and hatred of people like us. But our side gets worn down by the attacks and we just want to get on with our lives.

I gave up on America a long time ago, but somehow Trump pulled off a miracle and won. However, it reminds me of Nixon. Historically, Nixon is now considered one of the most liberal president's in history. His Supreme Court appointments were some of the biggest Constitution changing liberals on the court. Why was that? Because of the times. The liberals controlled the culture and Nixon was liberal because the culture was liberal. Will the same happen with Trump? Will Trump makes the culture worse by creating more economic prosperity, which is the source of all degeneracy?

[weambulance]

^

I agree. It's disheartening to see how about 90% of the right is ready for a nice long break. It's exactly what I said was going to happen months ago in the Donald Trump thread.

The right thinks you can just win a fight and not worry about it for awhile. The left knows the fighting never stops.

[Nowak]

(01-01-2017 09:50 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

The problem with goals like this is that when you try to abstain from something, it's still on your mind, sometimes to a greater degree than when you participated. You may quit talking or writing about it in public, but political ideas will still continue mentally. This is what I'm facing right now with my Twitter break. I'm not participating, but I do still go often to the site to catch up. The answer seems to be the middle path of moderation, where you recognize you are prone to excess but put limits that don't require such will that you'll regress back and feel ashamed for it.

After Trump was elected I tried abstaining ,but I also find it extremely difficult to not think about political/cultural issues. Roosh in your opinion, are you more relaxed with this living in a more traditional part of the world? I'm living in a very progressive left wing city, and even with more and more wins for the right all over the world,I am finding it harder not to think about politics. When you visit home or travel to more culturally western places do you think about these issues more?

[Phoenix]

(01-02-2017 12:27 PM)Sherman Wrote:  

This is why the liberals, leftists, and SJWs are going to ultimately win. They are fanatical and never quit. They are willing to go to North Dakota and put up camps in the dead of winter to protest the pipeline. They are driven by their passion and hatred of people like us. But our side gets worn down by the attacks and we just want to get on with our lives.

(01-02-2017 12:33 PM)weambulance Wrote:  

I agree. It's disheartening to see how about 90% of the right is ready for a nice long break. It's exactly what I said was going to happen months ago in the Donald Trump thread.

The right thinks you can just win a fight and not worry about it for awhile. The left knows the fighting never stops.

The affirmation does say it applies to 2017. Says nothing about an attempted permanent divorce from politics. A year is a perfectly reasonable break to get down to personal business, knowing in the back of one's mind that the anti-social scum will be making their moves as always, and that one will have to return to do one's part in putting that scum down, ideally from a stronger position because of the break.

(01-01-2017 11:45 AM)cascadecombo Wrote:  

a question about restricting the capabilities of a person.

I'm not interested in re-opening that thread either, but there is simply no path through the English language as plainly and honestly read, that can allow that interpretation of my posts in that thread. I'm happy letting the posts stand as they are, and I don't feel they need any clarification whatsoever for the meaning and intent to be read as I intended.

But especially in the context of my very frequent voicing of my hostility towards school/university as a form of education on the whole, as anyone who's read some of my posts would know. In the same way I know you can write good Japanese, and that Suits likes craft beer, that Linux is swole as fuck, and that IKE is a socialist, I'd assume members knew of my general hostility towards school as a form of education given how often I'd voiced that, and not interpret it as excluding education as a whole from a specific group. Not that that prior understanding would be necessary to honestly read the plain meaning of the posts though. But it might have encouraged giving the benefit of the doubt from those who merely skim-read.

I did enjoy my little taste of what Roosh got from his 'stop rape' article though, the jumping to misinterpretation for the purpose of casting character aspersions against you, instead of just allowing it to stimulate intellectual discussion.

I won't comment on the political content in that thread itself (as per OP), but I submit that when people respond to political ideas with mere ad-hominems, snark, talking at the author about his intent instead of either responding or not, and deliberate false construe of clear English language, it indicates a need for further self improvement and personal development. And I've always expected other members to call me out whenever I've done any of those things myself.

[Dusty]

I was thinking back to the 1996 election, Clinton versus Dole. I remember how gloriously detached I was from politics. As were most people during that era. Things in the world and especially the USA were relatively calm. This was after the end of the cold war, and before 9/11.

I was around 30 years old at the time and paid close to zero attention to politics.

I did not watch the conventions. I did not listen to talk radio. I didn't even have cable tv. I hadn't yet used the Internet at that point, and never logged on in my life (the Internet was gaining ground then but most people didn't have it).

None of my friends talked about the election, nor anyone at work. I didn't vote.

All I remember was someone at work laughing at how stiff Al Gore was doing the Macarena (I guess at the convention)?

I do remember Norm Macdonald was doing a hilarious impression of Bob Dole. Me and some of my frineds used to chuckle at that, but only because Norm was funny - none of us had strong opinions on Bob Dole one way or the other.

Things started to turn in 2000. Especially with the virtual tie. I remember the next day at work, people were polarized arguing about the results.

Then things really went south on September 11, 2001.

But that 1996 election - - how nice it was not to care and to be detached.