[TheDuncan]

What do you guys think of all this? Obviously he is successful at 28 years old but for all the "envisioning" and positive thinking, he does have some natural gifts that help him at fighting.

Do you believe in stuff like this? Hard work is key and he says that but it doesn't hurt to think positive and be confident, we all have to feel someway, so why not feel good?

[Meat Head]

If you believe, you can achieve.

[Paracelsus]

As I'm guessing you already suspect, there are very few top-of-their-game people who don't have some form of natural talent that gives them an advantage or an edge of some kind in whatever they do. This is mainly because, in results-oriented endeavours, at the levels where guys like Conor McGregor operate, everyone busts their ass hard.

Hard work is not an essential for reaching that level. It's a condition precedent. You simply will not reach those sorts of levels without putting in the time, putting in the hours - and to make matters worse, they have to be meaningful hours.

Contrary to what Malcolm Gladwell tells you, it's not just a case of 10,000 hours and you have instant mastery of a discipline. There are many lawyers, for example, who have been practicing for 20 years but in reality are just first year lawyers who've been doing the same shit all the time. No amount of positive thinking is going to change that physical fact. This is where shit like The Secret falls down: your thoughts alone, unacted-upon, are not sufficient.

Once you do reach these sorts of elite levels, though, mainly because hard work is done by everyone, there are two factors which then set apart the top from the also-rans.

(1) Natural or genetic advantages
(2) Mental training.

And even then, mental training can override natural talent. The proof of this is the fact people with natural or genetic advantages do not always succeed in the endeavours they are talented in. All physical combat is ultimately mental combat. As an example, underdogs are often beaten by their own belief they can't beat the champion. Underdogs who do win are smart enough to realise that they often can't beat the champion if they play by his rules. When they do have that realisation, they change how they confront the challenge. And it works in many cases of underdogs: see Malcolm Gladwell's "How David Beats Goliath" for a more accurate picture of how guerrilla warfare is so devastatingly effective, how unathletic Indian and white girls can beat experienced black girls' basketball teams.

Natural talent gives a person a step up on the mental training needed to win in the sense that it provides positive reinforcement to the beginning or even the journeyman athlete. If you have a natural talent, odds are on you will find at least beginning a discipline easier for you. Finding it easy reinforces your positive feelings while doing that discipline, so you're more likely to do it and therefore get better -- provided you have the growth mindset that ability and intelligence is not fixed across the lifespan. A mindset of constant improvement is the only way a natural talent is truly realised.

This is the real power of positive thinking: it is the foundation of the mental training that makes the difference in otherwise equal contests.

Here's a great secret, one they never teach you in high school or university, one the real world tries to conceal from you unless you're looking for it: nobody is logical, and nobody is objective - including you.

Emotion is the foundation and driver of thought. Logic, at best, is a handy justification for the thoughts that flow from it. When you get right down to it -- and especially for women, as a thousand years of experience tells us -- people are driven first by emotions, second by logic if it supports their emotions. Change a person's emotion, and you change their reasoning on the subject.

Plato himself said, like Thucydides before him, that human behaviour was a chariot driven by three horses: phobos, kerdos, and doxa. That is: fear, self-interest (gain; advantage; greed), and public opinion (pride.)

Three emotions. Three wild, hardly-containable horses that pull the mind along behind them. Plato, Socrates and Aristotle gave us the precepts of reason, but even they had to concede that emotion ultimately came first, before the logic they treasured.

This remains the truth down to our own time. Gerry Spence, one of the most successful lawyers of the 20th century (if not the most successful) puts in plainly in his books: no persuasion can succeed if the person listening is being asked to do something against his own self-interest. This is the practical illustration of the principle: Spence never lost a case from 1986 onwards, whether in civil court, criminal prosecution, or criminal defence. If you cannot avoid galloping kerdos, no amount of reason will stop it, nor the chariot drawn by it.

And consider again Plato's metaphor: the horses drawing a chariot can be controlled if the rider has the appropriate reins. Plato and his forebears believed logic was that tool, that the practice of philosophy -- from the Greek philo-sophia, the love of wisdom -- could allow a man to control where the emotions went. In this they were in error, or perhaps understood all too well that it took a man a lifetime of discipline and logical reason to control his emotions; the vast majority of the human race would never reach such control.

Emotion drives thought first. The pseudo-science of NLP and similar at least recognises this, and takes it one step further to suggest emotions can be induced from biological change to the body. The simplest example of this is to compare how you feel, sitting hunched over reading my words on a computer or mobile, and how you feel with back straightened, shoulders back.

Positive thinking trains the unconscious. Its aim is to change those neurons firing just above the amydgala level of the brain, and thereby influence our biological reactions to events by installing more positive habits. Sow an act; reap a habit. Sow a habit; reap a character. Sow a character; reap a destiny. Positive thinking on its own will not do the trick - but it will alter the way the brain responds to opportunities and advantages, if done resolutely and long enough.

The point being: you have been told lies your entire life that people who are positive thinkers are overly optimistic or don't have the right view of the world. Those who said so were no freer from the influence of their emotions than the positive thinker is. But the positive thinker chooses to be proactive about his thoughts, and chooses to be mindful of what he tells himself. This is what makes all the difference in close contests. And all contests, when it comes to a career of constant growth and advancement, are close: overcoming a challenge means there is a chance of failure.

And failure is a necessary element of success. Compare Donald Trump and the Clintons as business owners. Trump has had roughly four of his companies go bankrupt. The Clintons had one: Whitewater. Which of them is the successful business owner, and which of them had to rely principally on dirty money to afford a seven, eight figure salary?

[TheDuncan]

Personally I find positive thinking has always done me good, even in a crappy or dire situation I stay positive "I will" get through this, I always do, somehow someway.

Even something as basic as long hours at work, why get irritated at your long hours, put them in, find positives in the situation, in the benefits you will get from it, as said mental strength is very important, Navy SEALs work extremely hard on a physical level but everyone I have talked to with experience in hard military training says the same, the guys who are not willing to quit no matter what, those are the guys who make it, doesnt matter if hes skinny or built like a tank, the guy who is strongest mentally prevails.

Now when you have a guy with that mental strength and the psychical talent, its a sight to behold, that is when you get the greats of whatever field.

[Meat Head]

The human mind took man to the moon. Enough said.

[Foolsgo1d]

Not really. If you've seen a lot of big mouth, ego-driven Irish guys you won't be surprised by his progress. They're very single-minded if they're fighters. Even moreso if they come from working class backgrounds/families.

Scottish & Irish lads in a group of guys bring the fucking laughs and energy. Like a permanent Red Bull through your system. God help your liver and kidneys if you go out on the town with an Irish, Scot in the group.

[Kid Twist]

(11-23-2016 07:51 AM)Paracelsus Wrote:  

And failure is a necessary element of success.

I love paradoxes because they reveal the truth about the world.

I also wanted to let you know I printed out your post above, to re-read and retain. Very well done.

I think a lot of us who are successful (and truth seekers, another requisite characteristic) just needed time to realize the truth of what you posted. I think the fact is, you start learning it in your 20s entering the "real world" and don't want to believe that most people, even the most credentialed or supposedly "bright, intelligent or thinking" types --- really do just revert to the animal-like bias of self interest and/or tribalism in the end. It's funny, or disappointing even, but like with women, you just end up saying to yourself "That's just how it is". And deal with it.

As you stated, the ancient Greeks realized this, so in reality they just made a call out to those who might want to transcend the normal existence. In that way, what they did was helpful, and true.

[Travesty]

^ Game is called by this name because the best way to deal with life is to choose to view it as a game and have as much fun learning it and playing it as you can. The alternative to the realities of humans is cynicism.

We could call it social dynamics, that doesn't set the right mindset for consistent success though to deal with realities (losses, haters, fools, simps, hoes, flakes, pretty lies, magic potion salesman, politicians, banks, consumerists) of the world.

I am sure Trump, McGregor, and whoever else at that level also sees the world in these terms and they quickly learn from losses and don't take it (reality) personally. The main point of playing any game is to exercise your mind and enjoy it.

[Travesty]

(11-23-2016 07:51 AM)Paracelsus Wrote:  

...

That was a really beautiful post. AB levels, if not higher.

Puts most blog articles on these sorts of subjects to shame including the better ones we know about.

Who knew Australia pumps out so many philosophy types. I thought you guys just drank Foster's and wrestled crocodiles.

[armenia4ever]

Connor has a gift - a very good reach advantage for being a lightweight, his unorthodox style which people still haven't found a very good counter to, and his ability to trashtalk in the ring and out to get into people's head.

Getting your opponent off his game is one of his primary weapons.

All the positive thinking in the world won't give you any of three above attributes that he has. This is what people often miss. It's why so many people, including so many millenials - of which I am one - think they can do anything with enough positive thinking and some web surfing.

This is a mistake.

You do need some kind of physical competitive advantage to succeed as an athlete. You need smarts - as well as some wisdom - to succeed in the careers that pay decent. You may want to become a doctor, but if you can't grasp basic biology, retain a lot of information, etc. it wont matter how much you want it.

Positive thinking is best applied to people who know what they want - and are actually good at it. So rather then what do you want to be and have positive thinking about it; what are you good at and think positive in how you improve.

[IvanDrago]

(11-23-2016 10:24 AM)Meat Head Wrote:  

The human mind took man to the moon. Enough said.

The only people I know who end a thought with "enough said" are women and kids. Your inspirational one liners are suspect.

[Paracelsus]

(11-23-2016 03:01 PM)Travesty Wrote:  

(11-23-2016 07:51 AM)Paracelsus Wrote:  

...

That was a really beautiful post. AB levels, if not higher.

Puts most blog articles on these sorts of subjects to shame including the better ones we know about.

Who knew Australia pumps out so many philosophy types. I thought you guys just drank Foster's and wrestled crocodiles.

There are many misconceptions about Australia. I think you will find -- and many of the brothers from here will doubtless corroborate me on this -- that most of our philosophy lectures are presented by crocodiles, with a can of Foster's on hand to wet the crocodile's whistle while he talks.

[Paracelsus]

I've learned over the years as well that when a book lacks a bibliography, it's a warning sign: one where the author doesn't know what they're talking about or doesn't want to put you onto books that are better guides than his own.

I adopted the views I had because so many disparate authors I have seen over the years report much the same outcome or results, just with slightly different perspectives.

When you get pretty much the same story from people who were not influenced by one another, it might not be scientific evidence of the value of the ideas, but it's pretty good empirical evidence. (Another big secret you're not told until you're well out of high school and university, if you're ever told it at all: science is designed to be much less useful than most people say and believe it is. Read up on falsifiability and you'll pretty much immediately be able to pick up who understands what science can be used for and who it doesn't.)

Therefore, books I'd recommend on positive thinking, persuasion, mindset, and learning (being very much interrelated concepts):

- The Art of Learning, Josh Waitzkin. This was a ROK-recommended read, done by a guy who was first a young chess prodigy (his life story was the foundation for Searching For Bobby Fischer) who then turned his insights on learning and flow to tai chi chuan, and became a national, then equal world, champion in the art after only a couple of years.

- The Power of Habit, Charles Duhigg.

- How to Argue and Win Everytime, Gerry Spence.

- Persuasion, Robert Cialdini.

- The One Sentence Persuasion Course, Blair Warren.

- How to Fail at Almost Everything and still Win Big, Scott Adams.

- Gorilla Mindset, Mike Cernovich.

Notice I've left Cernovich and Adams until last, mainly because this was roughly speaking the order in which I read each of these books. Some of them are from Scott Adams' Persuasion Reading List, which I haven't got all the way through yet so can't otherwise recommend at this point.

Adams and Cernovich's books help you lock all of the concepts together; they make you realise the interconnection of all of these things in one mass of knowledge. If you like, read them first instead, but if they don't convince you off the bat, don't discard their ideas until you've read more around the subjects they cover. If you were forced down to three books off this list, I would say read Waitzkin, Spence, and Cernovich. (And if you can, get Spence's audiobook presentation, because his audio presentation is a good summary of, if not better than, the written text itself.)

I would also recommend at least reading one or more books on physical fitness, even if you don't plan to bodybuild or pull women with your physique. Getting in touch with and understanding your body is a vital element of getting in touch with and understanding your brain: mind and body are connected, that brain of yours floats in the same soup of hormones and fluids that the rest of your organs do. Pain endurance is an important conditioner of the mind and the body. The simplest one I like is Ross Enamalt's Never Gymless, mainly because he breaks down different forms of strength in a comprehensive but straightforward way.

[The Wire]

One of the biggest takeaways from McGregor that I've noticed over the years is that he has crystal clear goals and he knows them years in advance and makes them public which is a good motivational tool as he is held accountable. Some UFC fighters after a win get asked what they want next and they might say "whatever the UFC decides". McGregor is basically the opposite and sees the mountain top and tries to get to it the fastest way.

Funny enough a few months before the fight Eddie Alvarez was being interviewed on MMAFighting and he basically said similar things as Conor. Eddie read the Secret years ago just like McGregor and he noted that as a goal setting exercise he has a poster where he cuts out pictures of things he wants and he pastes them on the poster. Shit like a house, world championship title..etc. He said he has basically accomplished everything on the poster.

[tomzestatlu]

He invested whole his life to this, that´s why he succeed. If you choose the goal and you invest every single hour of your life to this goal, you will be succesful.

Nice said in my faouvorite motivational video:
If you tell yourself you can do anything, no matter how many times you get hit and no matter how many times you go down, and you always come back with everything you´ve got - you will pass it.

[Que enspastic]

I enjoy playing tennis, one of the few highly adversarial zero-sum one-on-one sports out there.

In my three set matches I'll sometimes come up against guys who I think have better weapons than me but I'm able to figure out their danger zones and steer clear of them, find the weaknesses and exploit them. I play differently depending on my opponent.

Sometimes I find myself beating a guy who I would tip to beat me decisively if I was coaching him on what shots to hit and tactics to employ against someone like me. Too bad, they have to figure it out themselves. When they get exhausted after a long rally and give up you know they are about to lay down and get steamrolled.

It's not same level of physical animal intensity as boxing or UFC but the balance of talent, mental willpower and cunning make it a great sport to play.