[Fast Eddie]

Damn, seems like just about every add on Craigslist "Private Seller" section is a curbstoner when it comes to sports sedans. Is it possible to get a decent car from those guys if you do your due diligence, or are they all by definition peddling lemons and to be avoided?

[chicane]

I put a ad on Craigslist and found a Mercedes 300SDL for $1800. It's obviously a 1987. Very reliable. Maintenance has been a bit high, but nothing compared to a car payment. Usually gets around 25MPG. Next thing to be replaced is the front seats, they are shot.

Old diesel Benzes last and last.

[Cattle Rustler]

(06-02-2016 01:22 PM)porscheguy Wrote:  

Open your mind to vehicles outside the range of what you would consider. A few months ago my brother had mentioned wanting to buy a pick up as a second vehicle. Then he mentioned how insane the prices were on old, beat shit. 4WD trucks hold their value. I suggested to him to look at full size SUVs. Specifically Suburbans. A few weeks later he got a '02 Suburban for $1400. It was a LT trim which had leather seats, sunroof, etc and 230K miles. It has a few scuffs and scrapes, and the driver's seat cover and foam are shot (normal on them.) He's spent probably another $1400 since he's had it. Tune-up shit mostly. A new set of Michelin LTX tires. But now he's got something that's reliable and could easily have another 100K-150K miles left in it.

One of the best ways to determine how good a car is, is the general condition of it when you look at it. Is it clean? Is it really clean? I'm not talking did the idiot run it through the automatic car wash and spend five minutes to vacuum it. I'm talking about does it look like it was owned by a person who always kept it clean? You can tell the difference. What about the check engine light? Is it on? In most states, if it's on, it won't pass inspection. Why is it on? If they didn't fix the issue, what other issues went unrepaired? Can he discuss the service history? If it has 200K miles on the clock and it's still on the original tie rods and ball joints, struts and wheel bearings/hubs, it's going to be a sloppy car. I could go on, but I've got other stuff to take care of.

I always suggest driving it 25+ miles. A lot of times the dealer will take it to a mechanic who will turn off the light, shit sometimes the dealers have the small machine to erase it. It takes about 25 or more miles for the light to come back on.

I've tried tricking the state inspection by having my mechanic reset it so the light is off but the dude noticed that,

[Elster]

I'm looking to get a second hand van in Germany preferably, something like a Westfalia or a Fiat Ducato style of van.
Idea is to turn it into my wheeled house/studio
AS I know almost nothing of mechanics - but I can learn-what exactly are the things i should keep an eye out for when looking at candidates?

[Cattle Rustler]

Look out for any smoke or smell when you turn it on, you can tell if a car is burning oil or something has blown/worn. I'd say check out for strange vibrations when you shift gears or make turns (engine mounts or CV joint issues)

[Sam Malone]

(07-18-2016 09:19 PM)Fast Eddie Wrote:  

What's the process of negotiating with private sellers? I'm looking to buy a car from Craigslist, and the listed prices are consistently a grand or two above the KBB and Edmunds Private Party Values. Should I assume the sellers are offering these quotes at face value, or are most people purposely high-balling their asking price because they expect to be negotiated down from their initial offer, however low it may be? Should you ever agree to purchase a car for higher than its KBB value or is that being a sucker?

Also, what is the convention for arranging a pre-purchase inspection at a mechanic? You come to a tentative agreement on price with the seller, and then do you ask the seller to drive the car to the mechanic himself, or do you give him a security deposit as a surety and take possession of the vehicle and drive it to the mechanic yourself?

As far as price, the golden rule is that the seller can always go down on price, they can't go up. Imagine someone selling a car for $2K, then turn around and tell you (because they've had so much interest in it) that the price is now $3500.

I always have a price in mind at least 30% lower than what they're asking.

My pre purchase inspection goes something like this: I look the vehicle over as much as possible, asking the seller as many questions about whatever concerns me.

Small hole in the exhaust ? I deduct a few dollars for what it will cost ME to fix it (double it if a mechanic has to do it). Dirty interior ? That'll take me some time to clean. Take a few bucks off for that.

I make my offer based on the above factors, with the understanding that the final price is contingent on my mechanic inspecting it. And a big part of that is reassuring the seller that you won't renege on the handshake deal.

"If my mechanic gives it the ok, I will put cash in your hand at the shop, and a ride home if you need it."

One time a seller said, "Well, what if he finds something wrong and you don't want it ?"
"Exactly. If something major is wrong, no, I don't want it. Look, I'm not gonna bust your balls and waste both our times if it needs something like a light bulb in the trunk or the cigar lighter fixed. He's looking at it to inspect the major stuff. Engine, transmission, frame, etc. "

It's their responsibility to get it to the shop. If they really want to sell the car, they'll make the time. Plus, I've looked at a few cars with expired registrations, inspections, and/or different license plates. Last thing I want is to get pulled over (or worse) in an illegal/unregistered vehicle.

[Fast Eddie]

I found a car that I liked from Craigslist and when I went to see it the guy turned out to be a curbstoner. However, he works at a dealership and the car is under the dealership name so in case I were to buy it the sale would be a normal, fully documented dealership transaction. The engine and transmission appeared to be in good shape and the price was pretty damn good so I decided to ignore the warning signals and take it to a different dealership (same as the car's make) for an inspection.

The inspection uncovered some issues like a minor oil cooler leak and rear shocks leak that will cost around $500 total to fix, but they didn't say anything bad about the drive-train which was my main concern. The seller agreed to lower the price by a couple hundred to compensate for the repairs so the car would still end up being dirt cheap, repairs included.

Problem is, I come home and look up the Carfax which I should have done from the get go and it turns out the car had a "Not Actual Mileage" title issued at 70,000 miles. Now it has 120k. What's more, the last time Carfax mentions it passing emissions was in 2012 and it's bounced around auctions a few times since then and been owned by a couple of different dealers.

All that obviously raises a shitload of red flags. On the one hand it screams "walk away," on the other hand, I already paid almost $200 for a dealer inspections and they found no major issues aside from the aforementioned leaks and the car drives great. I put a small security deposit on it and would be signing the paperwork tomorrow. What do you guys think I should do? All in all I'd pay less than $5000 for car and repairs so it's not exactly a life changing event if it turns out being a lemon, but still.... not sure whether I should put more stock in the red flags in the Carfax or the "green flags" of the test drive and inspection.

[weambulance]

(07-21-2016 11:51 PM)Fast Eddie Wrote:  

I found a car that I liked from Craigslist and when I went to see it the guy turned out to be a curbstoner. However, he works at a dealership and the car is under the dealership name so in case I were to buy it the sale would be a normal, fully documented dealership transaction. The engine and transmission appeared to be in good shape and the price was pretty damn good so I decided to ignore the warning signals and take it to a different dealership (same as the car's make) for an inspection.

The inspection uncovered some issues like a minor oil cooler leak and rear shocks leak that will cost around $500 total to fix, but they didn't say anything bad about the drive-train which was my main concern. The seller agreed to lower the price by a couple hundred to compensate for the repairs so the car would still end up being dirt cheap, repairs included.

Problem is, I come home and look up the Carfax which I should have done from the get go and it turns out the car had a "Not Actual Mileage" title issued at 70,000 miles. Now it has 120k. What's more, the last time Carfax mentions it passing emissions was in 2012 and it's bounced around auctions a few times since then and been owned by a couple of different dealers.

All that obviously raises a shitload of red flags. On the one hand it screams "walk away," on the other hand, I already paid almost $200 for a dealer inspections and they found no major issues aside from the aforementioned leaks and the car drives great. I put a small security deposit on it and would be signing the paperwork tomorrow. What do you guys think I should do? All in all I'd pay less than $5000 for car and repairs so it's not exactly a life changing event if it turns out being a lemon, but still.... not sure whether I should put more stock in the red flags in the Carfax or the "green flags" of the test drive and inspection.

Not quite sure what you mean by the bold part above. It has 120k real miles, or what? Are they representing it as having less miles than it actually does? How many miles does it have exactly, and do you know what service they've done?

Also, there's no way I would pay for it without a current emissions sticker. Fuck that. Emissions issues can be a major pain in the ass to resolve.

Hard to say about the leaks, because they could be pretty serious red flags or relatively innocuous, just old age. Not enough information there.

On the face of it it sounds pretty damn shady to me.

[Fast Eddie]

(07-22-2016 12:19 AM)weambulance Wrote:  

Not quite sure what you mean by the bold part above. It has 120k real miles, or what? Are they representing it as having less miles than it actually does? How many miles does it have exactly, and do you know what service they've done?

Also, there's no way I would pay for it without a current emissions sticker. Fuck that. Emissions issues can be a major pain in the ass to resolve.

Hard to say about the leaks, because they could be pretty serious red flags or relatively innocuous, just old age. Not enough information there.

On the face of it it sounds pretty damn shady to me.

In regards to the "Not Actual Mileage" issue, apparently there is a title category that the DMV issues whenever there is the potential for an odometer reading to be inaccurate. This can range from the innocuous like somebody making a typo in the records and causing a discrepancy, to a replaced engine or odometer, to purposeful odometer tampering. In this case, Carfax has numerous odometer readings until 70,000 then suddenly at 70,400 there is an entry that says "Correction to record
NOT ACTUAL MILEAGE TITLE ISSUED." Then the mileage reading go up pretty linearly until it hits today's 120k. No idea what the actual reason for the entry was but it was all the way back in the late 2000s.

[Sam Malone]

(07-21-2016 11:51 PM)Fast Eddie Wrote:  

I found a car that I liked from Craigslist and when I went to see it the guy turned out to be a curbstoner. However, he works at a dealership and the car is under the dealership name so in case I were to buy it the sale would be a normal, fully documented dealership transaction. The engine and transmission appeared to be in good shape and the price was pretty damn good so I decided to ignore the warning signals and take it to a different dealership (same as the car's make) for an inspection.

The inspection uncovered some issues like a minor oil cooler leak and rear shocks leak that will cost around $500 total to fix, but they didn't say anything bad about the drive-train which was my main concern. The seller agreed to lower the price by a couple hundred to compensate for the repairs so the car would still end up being dirt cheap, repairs included.

Problem is, I come home and look up the Carfax which I should have done from the get go and it turns out the car had a "Not Actual Mileage" title issued at 70,000 miles. Now it has 120k. What's more, the last time Carfax mentions it passing emissions was in 2012 and it's bounced around auctions a few times since then and been owned by a couple of different dealers.

All that obviously raises a shitload of red flags. On the one hand it screams "walk away," on the other hand, I already paid almost $200 for a dealer inspections and they found no major issues aside from the aforementioned leaks and the car drives great. I put a small security deposit on it and would be signing the paperwork tomorrow. What do you guys think I should do? All in all I'd pay less than $5000 for car and repairs so it's not exactly a life changing event if it turns out being a lemon, but still.... not sure whether I should put more stock in the red flags in the Carfax or the "green flags" of the test drive and inspection.

Forgetting the $200 for a moment, your gut is telling you something's not right. So..

How inclusive was the $200 inspection ? Sometimes a dealer can charge considerably more for the same service than a privately owned, three man garage. What exactly did the dealer look at ?

The Carfax.. does the person/dealer selling the car have any suggestions regarding the discrepancy ? While they may not know the full history of the car, they may be able to provide a logical explanation for it. I once had a vehicle with a digital odometer, and it stopped lighting up. The car ran fine, and I'd had it inspected a couple times after the bulb didn't show the mileage ("Sam, how many miles you think are on it ?"). That could be a possible reason, but let the seller be the one to offer up any explanation.

Are you officially buying from the dealer ? If so, what kind of warranty is provided ? 3 day/300 mile ? 12 months bumper to bumper ?

And that it's been bounced around a few auctions and dealers is a concern as well.

I would cold ask the seller about the Carfax mileage, and gauge their response.

All said and done, if the deal still doesn't feel right, walk away. Better to be down $200 and still have options than stuck with a $5K problem car.

[skr1107]

(04-21-2016 11:37 AM)SlickyBoy Wrote:  

(04-21-2016 11:13 AM)Tim in real life Wrote:  

As of this writing, I have been earning US$2K for a used car.

Since I am new to this, the only tool I have at my disposal is CarFax.

What procedures beside smog testing I need to pass?

I appreciate the help I can get.

Thanks.

All depends what you are after. I've bought cars for less than that, but I know how to fix them or at least know when the shop may be trying to rip me off. Do you? If not you will go broke fast with a car that cheap in most cases.

A few rules you should keep in mind for cheap cars:

1) The lower the mileage, the better. This will be tough - everything that cheap will have tons of miles, but it is an important consideration.

2) Think Japanese - particularly Toyota. When going this cheap, keep the parts cheap too - tons of corollas, Camrys, etc. out there. Honda isn't bad either but tends to be a bit more expensive. Try to find one with not much more than 100k miles (will be tough at $2K price point though)

3) Try to find a car from the original owner. Tons of miles is one thing, but tons of miles spread over ten owners who don't give a shit is a disaster (sound familiar? It's kind of the same way with girls, isn't it?)

4) Body damage - this can be tough to spot if repaired well, or not obvious. A car with reasonable miles might still have some past repairs you may not notice. The untrained eye could easily miss things like bent frames, stress fractures, doors and hoods that just don't close the way they should. Carfax isn't perfect here but it's better than nothing - use it.

5) Depending where you live, smog testing can be easy or a pain in the ass. Some exemptions might exist if the car is old enough but I would find out what your state requires. If you get a $2000 car then need a grand more for a catalytic converter it won't be a good day.

6) No, that used BMW at this price is not a good deal. See rule number 2

7) Try to buy from an older seller who is anal about their cars - you can quiz them a bit about repairs, and they are more likely than a dealer to be truthful about defects.

8) Avoid auctions at this price, and the low end dealers who shop there. Lots of junk moves through auctions and you're adding a layer of mystery you really don't need. Then again it's only $2k so maybe it's worth a gamble. I would prefer not to get stranded somewhere though in the event of a breakdown.

9) Avoid anything with a pretense of having been abused by a Fast and Furious wannabe. That cheap Accura with the neon underneath and the cool wheels? Yeah, the previous owner has probably been doing front wheel drive burnouts its whole life and is one trip to the grocery store away from the front axles and CV joints falling apart in the parking lot. Avoid.

10) Think boring, but good. A plain-Jane 4 door versus a slightly jazzier coupe won't sell for as much, even at the lower price ranges. No, this does not include Volvos or Saabs of any description. See rule number 2.

Thanks! very useful

[SlickyBoy]

(06-01-2016 09:44 AM)Sam Malone Wrote:  

Gentle bump.. What's the consensus on surplus vehicles ?

There's a surplus auction coming up in my neck of the woods. It's a city auction, the majority of the cars appear to be former squad cars. Mileage ranges anywhere from 37K on an '06 to 125K on an '09.
There's also some detective cars, a few parking bureau cars, some work vans, and a few minivans sprinkled in. The mileage on most of those seem to be consistent with either the national average of 12K/year or marginally below. An '08 Impala with 85K, am '05 Taurus with 43K, etc.

Potential pros would be that the vehicles are mechanically kept in tip top shape. The interiors may be roughed up, but those are easier fixes than a blown rod or frame damage.

Potential cons are that it's an "As Is, Where Is" sale, meaning that I can't have my mechanic put it on a lift before buying.

Anybody ever buy a decommissioned cop car ? Or any tips on what to scrutinize with these particular type of vehicles ?

Just saw this post now. I've been to exactly one police auction, in NC several years back. It was all city and town cop cars, and all absolute abused & overpriced crap. The miles on the cars in this category are all city-based, stop and go abusive driving with different drivers who don't give a shit. Who knows what kind of maintenance intervals pulled on them - if you can find any records that would be a miracle.

If you're dead set on finding an old cop car in decent shape, look for former state trooper cruisers as they tend to be nearly all highway miles and are much better cared for vehicles. Remember though, you're competing with taxi companies who regularly show up and may out bid you for the best ones.

And as for this predictable Craigslist story (and I never even heard of the curbstone scam before - interesting):

(07-21-2016 11:51 PM)Fast Eddie Wrote:  

I already paid almost $200 for a dealer inspections and they found no major issues aside from the aforementioned leaks and the car drives great. I put a small security deposit on it and would be signing the paperwork tomorrow. What do you guys think I should do?

I think you should become familiar with the concept of the sunk cost fallacy.

[Cattle Rustler]

Don't get a first or second year new model car. Lets say if the new Camry came out in 2002, don't get the 2002 or 2003 models. They have factory issues as they were the guinea pigs, the issues would be fixed in the later models 2004+.

My first year toyota had this issue where it made this grinding noise when starting up, it ended up being a VTTI/Timing Chain/Camshaft issue. Cost to replace? Anywhere between 1500-3500 bucks.

http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/122-2n...up-17.html

[Engineer]

(07-21-2016 11:51 PM)Fast Eddie Wrote:  

I found a car that I liked from Craigslist and when I went to see it the guy turned out to be a curbstoner. However, he works at a dealership and the car is under the dealership name so in case I were to buy it the sale would be a normal, fully documented dealership transaction. The engine and transmission appeared to be in good shape and the price was pretty damn good so I decided to ignore the warning signals and take it to a different dealership (same as the car's make) for an inspection.

The inspection uncovered some issues like a minor oil cooler leak and rear shocks leak that will cost around $500 total to fix, but they didn't say anything bad about the drive-train which was my main concern. The seller agreed to lower the price by a couple hundred to compensate for the repairs so the car would still end up being dirt cheap, repairs included.

Problem is, I come home and look up the Carfax which I should have done from the get go and it turns out the car had a "Not Actual Mileage" title issued at 70,000 miles. Now it has 120k. What's more, the last time Carfax mentions it passing emissions was in 2012 and it's bounced around auctions a few times since then and been owned by a couple of different dealers.

All that obviously raises a shitload of red flags. On the one hand it screams "walk away," on the other hand, I already paid almost $200 for a dealer inspections and they found no major issues aside from the aforementioned leaks and the car drives great. I put a small security deposit on it and would be signing the paperwork tomorrow. What do you guys think I should do? All in all I'd pay less than $5000 for car and repairs so it's not exactly a life changing event if it turns out being a lemon, but still.... not sure whether I should put more stock in the red flags in the Carfax or the "green flags" of the test drive and inspection.

Did you buy it?

You can bring up the carfax issue and say "This seems wrong, between this and the old emissions sticker knock another $500 off or no deal" and just walk if he doesn't drop the price. Plenty of fish in the sea.

[scubadude]

Here's how I've bought my last couple of cars.

1. Decide generally what you want.

2. Search autotrader.com for it within ANY distance and private seller.

3. Call and explain that you're not a scam but that you are coming from out of town and make yourself a deal have them send you more pictures and pictures of service records etc. Make sure they are not BS'ing about the car.

4. Pay a few hundred bucks to get to said destination and have a nice road trip home in your new car.

I have used this method and gotten two different cars. Both 7-10 years old. One with 9k miles and the other with 24k. Both for a few K less than I could buy locally and with 20% of the miles of local ones. One of them I had to fly out to, that ticket cost me about 300 one way plus a couple hundred more in gas and hotel and the other, I had a friend with a day off and we drove about 600 miles to pick it up.

[Cattle Rustler]

My engine mounts needed to be replaced for a while now, haven't gotten around to fixing them....and my car engine is way too shakier than normal. Fuck my life.

And the engine has a VVTI problem, which will cost around 1500 to fix. The oil goes all the way down and there's no oil in the gears during start up, so the gears make this grinding noise (lack of oil) and it's been getting worse. Part of me wants to say fuck it, and ride it until the engine goes out....then get another engine from a junkyard and put it in. The whole "toyota's are reliable" is myth, then again...my car is the first year of that select model.

[Spidey]

There's some great advice here! I'd like to add the importance of driving a car around for more than 5 minutes. It has already been stated, but it deserves more emphasis. My first car had a transmission problem, but it only became apparent after the car warmed up a bit. You would never know in a 5 minute drive around the block.

And when you go for your test drive beat the shit out of the car. I'm serious. I try to take test drives by myself, but if the person insists on going with you don't hold back. I had a friend drift a car in a parking lot of a dealership with one of the sales guys in the front seat. They aren't gonna do shit about it, they just want the sale.

That being said, fuck dealerships, especially used car dealerships. As someone who has spent a lot of time around cars, these people are generally scumbags. Use craigslist. Try to find an older person to buy from, and if it's your first car you really should go with someone who knows cars. Read this carefully: Someone who KNOWS cars. Not your father who has owned 8 cars in his lifetime and brings it to the mechanic for everything. Someone who is an actual mechanic or at least genuinely close to it. They're the ones who find the issues.

I have a buddy who can spot bodywork jobs just looking at the car. It's hysterical. He points at it, then taps the area. Looks again. Assesses how much work was done. Then figures out what happened based on where the damage is and how much work was done. This is the type of person you need with you when buying a car.

[roberto]

(11-04-2016 05:10 PM)Cattle Rustler Wrote:  

My engine mounts needed to be replaced for a while now, haven't gotten around to fixing them....and my car engine is way too shakier than normal. Fuck my life.

And the engine has a VVTI problem, which will cost around 1500 to fix. The oil goes all the way down and there's no oil in the gears during start up, so the gears make this grinding noise (lack of oil) and it's been getting worse. Part of me wants to say fuck it, and ride it until the engine goes out....then get another engine from a junkyard and put it in. The whole "toyota's are reliable" is myth, then again...my car is the first year of that select model.

In that case don't let it get so low. You're aware of the excessive oil consumption, so check it regularly.

Gearbox oil is (almost?) always different from engine oil on cars. Motorbikes share oils, cars do not. Therefore, unless your car (which I'm not familiar with) shares oil with engine and box, the gearbox grinding is unrelated.

Either way, top the damn thing up

[Bury Zenek]

Well, from what I know at least some Hondas use the same viscosity oils in their gearboxes as engine oil - 10w40.

[roberto]

Some fords also used engine oil in the gearbox. But the gearbox and its oil are a separate entity from the engine.

Do the Hondas share the oil? I'm not really clued up on cars, more commercial vehicles.

Either way, CR knows it leaks/burns oil, so top it up! Slick50 or similar may quiet the gearbox down a bit too.

[HOD]

Auto's to stay away from :

Nissan, they are simply inferior to Toyota and Honda

Ford, low resale value, and no one wants them use, accept a mustang.



Auto's to focus on:

Lexus, Toyota, Honda, Subaru, Acura, Jeep wrangler

[iknowexactly]

(04-21-2016 01:48 PM)dicknixon72 Wrote:  

The individual 'what to check out on a car when you buy a car' advice given here so far is solid. For $2000, I suggest...

'00-'07 Taurus/Sable w/3.0l 'Vulcan' V6

I had one of those and I believe they are vulnerable to head gasket problems which is such a planned -obsolescence thing that seems inexcusable to me.

The engine is transverse mounted, so the three rear cylinders are up against the firewall so it's about 600+ just for the labor if you redo the head gaskets, not worth it.

Any Toyota 4 cylinder gives you much better odds. I've had them up to 320,000 and it stilll got 26 MPG at 80 MPH. I towed small trailers over the sierras. You could just beat the engine with no pity but it just would not deteriorate.

Other items:

1) If you're in a smog state it's a paperweight unless you SEE IT pass smog in the allotted time window.
2) Check if the aircon works. It means the person either had money to fix it or it never broke.
Get a car later than 1995 because if it needs aircon fixed you can use the newer, cheaper coolant.
3) Low number of owners,
4) Let it idle with the air conditioner on, this will show you if it tends to overheat.
5) Any trouble with the heater or radiator may mean head gasket/overheating problems.

[weambulance]

(11-06-2016 03:32 AM)roberto Wrote:  

Some fords also used engine oil in the gearbox. But the gearbox and its oil are a separate entity from the engine.

Do the Hondas share the oil? I'm not really clued up on cars, more commercial vehicles.

Either way, CR knows it leaks/burns oil, so top it up! Slick50 or similar may quiet the gearbox down a bit too.

I've never seen a car that shared oil with the gearbox. The internet says the Mini and its derivatives had an oil sump mounted gearbox (so shared oil, obviously), so that's interesting. It may not be the only example out there, but it is not a normal thing in passenger vehicles.

It wouldn't make sense for most modern vehicles, if only because automatic transmissions don't use motor oil, and damn few cars are sold without an automatic option.

It also just seems like a bad idea from a longevity standpoint, if you have spare room to separate the transmission and the engine. You're putting a bunch of dirty shit into the gears from combustion, and the engine runs much hotter than a manual transmission, so that all translates into a lot more wear. It just probably doesn't matter in a light vehicle like a motorcycle or a Mini. And back to the automatic transmission thing, automatics are not very tolerant of dirty fluid as far as I know.

...But anyway, that's not what CR is talking about. He's talking about the VVT-i gears on the cam grinding on start, because the system is not holding oil the way it's supposed to. It's probably a $5 seal and a shitload of labor required to actually do the repair.