[Tayo]

Another dating advice I use to get from older guys when I was younger was "be yourself"... as if that would magically make everything fall into place.

(10-17-2016 04:34 AM)Meat Head Wrote:  

One of the worst game advice I ever heard was, be her friend first.

[The Beast1]

(10-17-2016 09:08 AM)Tayo Wrote:  

Another dating advice I use to get from older guys when I was younger was "be yourself"... as if that would magically make everything fall into place.

(10-17-2016 04:34 AM)Meat Head Wrote:  

One of the worst game advice I ever heard was, be her friend first.

In a normal healthy society devoid of easy sex, deviant music, and female narcissism this is good advice in fact this is probably how our grand parents met. Was it perfect? No, but it's certainly better than being a walking caricature of masculinity today.

With that said, there's always some sexual tension with male/female relationships. That's where the magic is at and why humans currently dominate the entire world.

You can certainly be friends with women. Sometimes it's best to not bang all of the women in your social circle or attempt to. Reputation is important. Do the cost/benefit analysis and come to your own conclusion if banging the female friend is worth it to your goals.

In the previous friend groups where we all fucked around we ended up growing apart as we moved away. Things also get weird when trying to reconnect.

To be fair, sex seriously complicates and adds all sorts of odd feelings. There's no such thing as "no strings" unless it's truly anonymous.

[jcrew247]

(10-17-2016 04:34 AM)Meat Head Wrote:  

One of the worst game advice I ever heard was, be her friend first.

There's a difference between being a pushover "friend" and being "friendly."

Every guy has to appear friendly and be friends first in a non-serial killer way.

The mistake in being friends is losing "dominant behavior" and becoming a lapdog BFF that is a "beta-friend" without the benefits of having sex.

You can be a friend to a girl, but you have to maintain the "Dominant Frame" and masculinity. If she's not responding in a flirty, sexual way then move on to another girl.

[AneroidOcean]

Fuck there is a lot of hate on his board related to female friends. Men and women are vastly different, that's clear, and perhaps a female can never be a friend in the same way a man can and vice versa, but all this hate on female friendship is a bit overblown.

I have female friends that are:
Good travel/adventure buddies
Good workout buddies
Killer coed volleyball teammates
Social/nightlife connectors
Fun conversationalists
Solid masseusses

All of these girls I enjoy some level of friendship with. Sometimes very compartmentalized, but not much different than guy friends. There will always be guys that just really don't get along with women and that's cool, but it's such that there's a lot of guys who learn to fuck girls but never really get much improvement on overall social interactions, relationship handling, or networking/providing/receiving value.

As to the original question, of course they enjoy it, to the extent that they're getting female interaction, but that doesn't mean they are ultimately getting what they really want, and it doesn't mean they are fully satisfied.

[Hannibal]

I imagine that regular betas are happy to have "regular female friends" because they don't have a lot of friends and they're eager for any kind of social validation, especially from a girl.

[XPQ22]

Once I started banging new chicks regularly, and even was seeing more than one girl romantically at the same time, I realized that there was little point in having female "friends" in the traditional sense of the word. Social acquaintances my own age or younger who aren't available at the moment for whatever reason, or aren't interested in me, or vice versa, that I chat with from time to time? Sure. Older married women who I've known for years, that I banter with on social media and give me cooking advice? Sure. But not friends the way I'd be friends with a man.

If I want a woman who there's even a chance of her coming through for me in a pinch the way a male friend would in this city, I need to be dicking her regularly. Simple as that.

The problem with the orbiters is that I'm sure a lot of them think they're running some kind of social circle "game." Do they want to fuck a lot of the girls they're "friends" with? Sure. Are they able to? Sure, on occasion. Let me tell you my impression of how orbiter social circle "game" operates, just from my casual observations regarding some of the folks in Boston I'm acquainted with. Lurking on Facebook and watching the posts and status updates of random chicks you talked to a few times and who threw you a friend request is a great way to learn about social dynamics.

"Amanda Wentworth", say, is a recent mid 20s transplant to Boston from Nowheresville, Ohio and has been living here for two years. A standard issue "6.5" She's been working at Starbucks to pay the bills while going to college part-time to get her veterinary tech associates degree, and also playing the role as a regular fixture at local emo night weekend shows and occasional dress-up comic book conventions. She's active on all the social media sites and has around 1100 friends on Facebook.

In other words, there are a million corny chicks just like her in every major city in the US.

She gets out of an 8 month relationship with her abusive, drug dealer boyfriend, and changes her relationship status to "single" after posting a bunch of feminist tropes, "you'll never hurt me again because a lady like me is worth it" memes, and random goth poetry.

So she has a lot of male "friends." We call them orbiters. And the bids start coming in, in a fashion. "Oh, I'm out with Steve at the tapas bar! It's great to be with good friends" her check-in might say. "It's so nice to hang with a classy lady like @AmandaWentworth at the Museum of Fine Arts!", his status update might say.

These guys aren't new to her. They were still in touch on social media and in the real world regularly when she was in a LTR, still taking her out to Dennys, but perhaps not as much. Biding their time, and being there for her when old BF was too drunk to make it home from the club at a reasonable hour.

One of them may become her new guy, maybe the guy who took her to the museum, and the others will slink back into the friend-zone, biding their time until some other girl in the crew they're "friends" with is back on the market, and they have a chance to put their bid in with someone else by taking her out and entertaining her repeatedly.

But it's been two months and Amanda's relationship status is still "single." I wonder who she's actually been fucking during that time? Most likely Chad from Tinder, that'd be my guess. But anyway, may the best orbiter win. He'd better move fast though, as I hear Amanda's old guy has promised he's changed, and they've been texting again.

[Mjölnir]

I have one female friend.

The only reason is because we grew up together always studying at the same school, along this time we got close, but we started talking because she helped me with a friend, in the 8 years I've known her shes been in LTR's for about 7 years, one of them lasting almost 5 years..

But the thing is, I never chased her. She's always the one coming after me, we don't have long conversations over text, nor do we keep texting day after day. I usually exchange text messages with her once a week, most times because she sends somenthing saying that she misses me.

A month before she broke up with her boyfriend she started getting all over me, that confused me because I never actively gamed her. I even started a thread about that. After that thread she broke up with her boyfriend and things got even heavier, she was giving all signs, even verbal cues. It got to the point that one night she told me she couldn't help but feel attraction to me, but she didn't wan't to fuck things up between us blablabla.

I could have banged her, she's an easy 8, efortless pretty. There is a bunch of guys running after her and I kept turning her down, and the more I did it more she wanted me.

It took about three months and I realized there was only one way I could turn this around. So I hooked up with her only friend that is hotter than her. She played cool, but I know she didn't like it because she's always been jealous, but after that she got the message and kind of got back to "normal".

She stills lays on me when we're sitting on the sofa watching something or whatever, grabs my arm when we're walking at night, but hey I can't blame her, i'm kind of hot body.

Most of you would call me beta. But if you look at the power play at the relationship she's always been MY orbiter. After I took the redpill I didn't game her, but my behavior changed (along with me getting more of a man jaw and leaving my skinny boy body behind) which caused all of the above.

She doesn't bring much value to me concretely. But she's a fun girl to be around, and after all those years she's comfortable with being herself with me, which gives me an inside look of the female psyche, so I keep their true nature on the back of my head preventing me from pedestalizing any girl.

I usually get gifts and if I wan't to try some restaurant/bar/whatever for bringing future targets. And of course, there is a few more of her friends that I still wan't to bang

[Rhyme or Reason]

@Aneroid

The original poster asked "do beta orbiters..."

None of what you described qualifies as being a beta orbiter. I stand by my analysis. I think a better question would have been "Do beta orbiters KNOW they are beta orbiters"?

[AneroidOcean]

(10-26-2016 07:00 PM)Red_Pillage Wrote:  

@Aneroid

The original poster asked "do beta orbiters..."

None of what you described qualifies as being a beta orbiter. I stand by my analysis. I think a better question would have been "Do beta orbiters KNOW they are beta orbiters"?

Sweet! I'm not a beta!

You just had a little reading comprehension fail. I was railing against all the female friend hate responses in the thread, not the OP's post specifically. That's why at the end I said:

Quote:

As to the original question, of course they enjoy it, to the extent that they're getting female interaction, but that doesn't mean they are ultimately getting what they really want, and it doesn't mean they are fully satisfied.

[The Catalyst]

(10-26-2016 09:49 PM)AneroidOcean Wrote:  

(10-26-2016 07:00 PM)Red_Pillage Wrote:  

@Aneroid

The original poster asked "do beta orbiters..."

None of what you described qualifies as being a beta orbiter. I stand by my analysis. I think a better question would have been "Do beta orbiters KNOW they are beta orbiters"?

Sweet! I'm not a beta!

You just had a little reading comprehension fail. I was railing against all the female friend hate responses in the thread, not the OP's post specifically. That's why at the end I said:

Quote:

As to the original question, of course they enjoy it, to the extent that they're getting female interaction, but that doesn't mean they are ultimately getting what they really want, and it doesn't mean they are fully satisfied.

I think in my original question I was saying beta orbiter when I should've said beta males in general.

I don't have female friends personally but I know a lot of guys who do and I think it works out well for them.

[AneroidOcean]

(10-26-2016 09:58 PM)The Catalyst Wrote:  

I think in my original question I was saying beta orbiter when I should've said beta males in general.

I don't have female friends personally but I know a lot of guys who do and I think it works out well for them.

They are largely one and the same. Most beta males have some level of female friendship that makes them an orbiter (because if it were up to them they'd much rather be dating/humping the girl).

[General Stalin]

OP: If a man tells you he relates to women better than men then I wouldn't use him as any kind of measuring stick. Sounds like a closet pickle smoker.

Anyway, by "beta orbiters" I assume you mean men in a social group that the female(s) do not want to fuck. From my personal observations, generally the answer is "no." That is, these incel men generally secretly (or not so secretly) would like to be with the women they are friendly with, but they either can't muster up the balls to tell them whats up, or they get friendzoned but keep it that way because they still like the girl and will allow themselves to be sort of "strung along" platonically by an unrequited lover just to be able to be around them and still feel like they are important to them.

I'm of the believe that these relationships are beneficial for women by highly detrimental for men for the most part.

[Tenebrous]

.
Men should never use the word "sweet" the way you just used it..... I don't care how white and preppie your upbringing.


T
.

(10-26-2016 09:49 PM)AneroidOcean Wrote:  

Sweet! I'm not a beta!

You just had a little reading comprehension fail. I was railing against all the female friend hate responses in the thread, not the OP's post specifically. That's why at the end I said:

[Malone]

(10-27-2016 11:08 AM)Tenebrous Wrote:  

.
Men should never use the word "sweet" the way you just used it..... I don't care how white and preppie your upbringing.


T
.

(10-26-2016 09:49 PM)AneroidOcean Wrote:  

Sweet! I'm not a beta!

You just had a little reading comprehension fail. I was railing against all the female friend hate responses in the thread, not the OP's post specifically. That's why at the end I said:

Low post new members should refrain from instructing anyone about anything.

[Latinopan]

To a particular level, yes, this is related to how they values themselves and how they see female contact in general, if a guy has sexual partners from time to time he would not tolerate being put in position where he is a orbiter, because for him the reward is sex, he is costumed to the pig price.

But for betas, they d not know there is a bigger reward, so they settle down for whatever they are given by females, something as a hug, handshake, or kiss in the cheek is enough for them because they do not know there is something better.


They are satisfied with making women happy before themselves.

[The Catalyst]

(10-27-2016 11:00 AM)General Stalin Wrote:  

OP: If a man tells you he relates to women better than men then I wouldn't use him as any kind of measuring stick. Sounds like a closet pickle smoker.

Anyway, by "beta orbiters" I assume you mean men in a social group that the female(s) do not want to fuck. From my personal observations, generally the answer is "no." That is, these incel men generally secretly (or not so secretly) would like to be with the women they are friendly with, but they either can't muster up the balls to tell them whats up, or they get friendzoned but keep it that way because they still like the girl and will allow themselves to be sort of "strung along" platonically by an unrequited lover just to be able to be around them and still feel like they are important to them.

I'm of the believe that these relationships are beneficial for women by highly detrimental for men for the most part.

By beta orbiters(I might have used the wrong term, I meant beta males in general) I mean the guys that they want to fuck less often than alphas or guys with game, but aren't necessarily incels. These are the types that still may manage to get in relationships with decent looking girls, maybe even hot ones, but they obviously don't have game and aren't alpha by any means.

He may be bi but he did say how he fucked a girl and regretted it. If he was gay I doubt he'd want to fuck a girl.

And for the rest of the thread- another thing I forgot to bring up. Many of those guys still have female friends even if they're in a relationship. Surely that means they enjoy the platonic friendships?

[Serious Sam]

(10-27-2016 03:30 PM)The Catalyst Wrote:  

(10-27-2016 11:00 AM)General Stalin Wrote:  

OP: If a man tells you he relates to women better than men then I wouldn't use him as any kind of measuring stick. Sounds like a closet pickle smoker.

Anyway, by "beta orbiters" I assume you mean men in a social group that the female(s) do not want to fuck. From my personal observations, generally the answer is "no." That is, these incel men generally secretly (or not so secretly) would like to be with the women they are friendly with, but they either can't muster up the balls to tell them whats up, or they get friendzoned but keep it that way because they still like the girl and will allow themselves to be sort of "strung along" platonically by an unrequited lover just to be able to be around them and still feel like they are important to them.

I'm of the believe that these relationships are beneficial for women by highly detrimental for men for the most part.

By beta orbiters(I might have used the wrong term, I meant beta males in general) I mean the guys that they want to fuck less often than alphas or guys with game, but aren't necessarily incels. These are the types that still may manage to get in relationships with decent looking girls, maybe even hot ones, but they obviously don't have game and aren't alpha by any means.

He may be bi but he did say how he fucked a girl and regretted it. If he was gay I doubt he'd want to fuck a girl.

And for the rest of the thread- another thing I forgot to bring up. Many of those guys still have female friends even if they're in a relationship. Surely that means they enjoy the platonic friendships?

I think I can see what you're getting at as I have an acquaintance who meets your description. He goes on dates, has had some girlfriends, but still has a very blue pill mindset and approach to women. He took a girl on a first date to a nice restaurant and picked up a $300 tab, for fucks sake. Did she call him again? I think we all know the answer to that...

When interacting with a mutual social circle, I have seen him like girls but be too big of a pussy to make a move. He watches as these girls bring Chad to one function, then a month later brings Tom, then Jack a month after that, and the cycle continues. He gets a front row seat to the girl's carousel ride while waiting for her to realize what a nice guy he is. Guys like him begin to resent these women. They'll show it by bad-mouthing every guy she brings out and then eventually shit-talking her behind her back.

They sit back waiting for their opportunity, for the girl to magically realize that he's the right guy for her, but that opportunity never comes. So no, they don't enjoy these "friendships," because they aren't friendships. There is no such thing as the friend zone because it is a detrimental relationship for any guy stuck in said zone. That is not friendship. People like this are dishonest with themselves and others and should be kept at an arm's length. Chances are, if you're successful, especially with women, he's bad mouthing you too.

[AneroidOcean]

(10-27-2016 11:08 AM)Tenebrous Wrote:  

.
Men should never use the word "sweet" the way you just used it..... I don't care how white and preppie your upbringing.


T
.

Dude!



This is actually me doing my preppie dance (in blackface of course):


Mahalo!

[kirdiesel]

I only have chicks as acquaintances or I can hangout with them if I don't find them overly attractive.... other than that forget about it.

Besides chicks are the shittiest wings ever.

Ive heard they can be helpful but in my years in the game I can't remember a time when a girlfriend of mine backed or helped me out better than one of my bros would.

I run mostly nightgame and they are good for social proof... other than that.. thats it.

[eskimobobseal]

(10-21-2016 05:39 AM)XPQ22 Wrote:  

Once I started banging new chicks regularly, and even was seeing more than one girl romantically at the same time, I realized that there was little point in having female "friends" in the traditional sense of the word. Social acquaintances my own age or younger who aren't available at the moment for whatever reason, or aren't interested in me, or vice versa, that I chat with from time to time? Sure. Older married women who I've known for years, that I banter with on social media and give me cooking advice? Sure. But not friends the way I'd be friends with a man.

If I want a woman who there's even a chance of her coming through for me in a pinch the way a male friend would in this city, I need to be dicking her regularly. Simple as that.

The problem with the orbiters is that I'm sure a lot of them think they're running some kind of social circle "game." Do they want to fuck a lot of the girls they're "friends" with? Sure. Are they able to? Sure, on occasion. Let me tell you my impression of how orbiter social circle "game" operates, just from my casual observations regarding some of the folks in Boston I'm acquainted with. Lurking on Facebook and watching the posts and status updates of random chicks you talked to a few times and who threw you a friend request is a great way to learn about social dynamics.

"Amanda Wentworth", say, is a recent mid 20s transplant to Boston from Nowheresville, Ohio and has been living here for two years. A standard issue "6.5" She's been working at Starbucks to pay the bills while going to college part-time to get her veterinary tech associates degree, and also playing the role as a regular fixture at local emo night weekend shows and occasional dress-up comic book conventions. She's active on all the social media sites and has around 1100 friends on Facebook.

In other words, there are a million corny chicks just like her in every major city in the US.

She gets out of an 8 month relationship with her abusive, drug dealer boyfriend, and changes her relationship status to "single" after posting a bunch of feminist tropes, "you'll never hurt me again because a lady like me is worth it" memes, and random goth poetry.

So she has a lot of male "friends." We call them orbiters. And the bids start coming in, in a fashion. "Oh, I'm out with Steve at the tapas bar! It's great to be with good friends" her check-in might say. "It's so nice to hang with a classy lady like @AmandaWentworth at the Museum of Fine Arts!", his status update might say.

These guys aren't new to her. They were still in touch on social media and in the real world regularly when she was in a LTR, still taking her out to Dennys, but perhaps not as much. Biding their time, and being there for her when old BF was too drunk to make it home from the club at a reasonable hour.

One of them may become her new guy, maybe the guy who took her to the museum, and the others will slink back into the friend-zone, biding their time until some other girl in the crew they're "friends" with is back on the market, and they have a chance to put their bid in with someone else by taking her out and entertaining her repeatedly.

But it's been two months and Amanda's relationship status is still "single." I wonder who she's actually been fucking during that time? Most likely Chad from Tinder, that'd be my guess. But anyway, may the best orbiter win. He'd better move fast though, as I hear Amanda's old guy has promised he's changed, and they've been texting again.

This is an amazing post and a perfect summary of female psychology. 5 fucking stars.

[kirdiesel]

That observation is 90% spot on!

In my experience they won't touch any of the orbiter inventory and go get a brand new guy from Tinder, a nightclub or what have you and then BAM all in a sudden theres a new guy shes talking about about who has "skipped the line". Ive never really heard of girls fucking orbiters.

[Filbert]

I noticed that, if not physically, some orbiters efficiently fuck with females' mind. ))

[XPQ22]

(10-27-2016 11:00 AM)General Stalin Wrote:  

OP: If a man tells you he relates to women better than men then I wouldn't use him as any kind of measuring stick. Sounds like a closet pickle smoker.

Anyway, by "beta orbiters" I assume you mean men in a social group that the female(s) do not want to fuck. From my personal observations, generally the answer is "no." That is, these incel men generally secretly (or not so secretly) would like to be with the women they are friendly with, but they either can't muster up the balls to tell them whats up, or they get friendzoned but keep it that way because they still like the girl and will allow themselves to be sort of "strung along" platonically by an unrequited lover just to be able to be around them and still feel like they are important to them.

I'm of the believe that these relationships are beneficial for women by highly detrimental for men for the most part.

I think a lot of guys get played like this because social circle is the only access they have to women, unlike the situation I'm in where my social circle is actually too small. If you rapid-fire approach every girl in the group word is going to get around and you're going to get shut out, and they don't have other options - they're not hitting up girls via online dating every day or doing daygame approaches like we are, for the most part. Their connections are fairly static.

So before they make a move they feel they need a good sense that their move is going to be accepted, which is why they're asking her friends "oh do you think she likes me?" and word is getting back to her, dropping her attraction, and undercutting their position right from the start.

The rejections can be painful and drama-filled. These guys don't take rejection well, quite unlike how I imagine most guys here operate where rejection is simply a cost of doing business, and if you haven't been rejected at least five times a week it means you were staying home.

Orbiting is the symptom, lack of abundance or at least the mentality of abundance is the disease.