[the-dream]

This whole "places getting played out" trend on here lately is seem to be largely just a red herring to me.

I think a lot of the guys claiming this have actually just become older and less attractive and so obviously when they return to a place that they had success in during their more attractive days, they'll be less successful. They then blame this lack of success on a place being "played out" when really it is them who has changed, not the place.

Then there's a large proportion of guys who were never had the success that they were hoping to have in a hyped up place and are bitter, again blaming it being "played out".

Then a smaller proportion of guys are actually being objective and speaking some truth but they're a minority.

I'm making this assumption as 80% of what's being written on the Philippines thread over the last couple of months has been absolute nonsense, with much of it revolving around this topic, so I'm assuming that similar discussions about other places are equally as ill informed.

[Bushido]

Practically all of the RVFers I know and hang out with continue to do very well for themselves. I just don't see the doom and gloom at all.

But then again, these guys learn the local language, have side businesses, dress well, lift, pay attention to getting superior nutrition, make approaches in real life (not just online)...and generally lead very interesting lives.

Ask yourself: Am I working on building my value or just complaining on the internet?

There are too many of these fail threads lately. We can do better than this.

To sum it up, don't be Charisma Man.

[262]

(09-27-2016 01:12 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

(09-27-2016 12:47 PM)nomadbrah Wrote:  

Why leave in the first place then? Won't all that competition in the West make you a great man?

I'd never seen a Japanese girl with an afro (or ass) until I went to Japan.

Like the R34 Skyline GT-R, they only have those on the Japanese Domestic Market.

Now why you'd leave the States for skinny brunette white girls instead of hitting up a campus dive bar?..
WIA

Because there are more of them, and fewer fatties.

Because they're nicer.

Because you want to spend more time doing things other than gaming women, or thinking about it.

Because you don't buy into the RSD-style fantasy that Game makes you 100% immune to the sexual marketplace.

Because you'd rather support places whose politics more closely align with your own.

Because it can be cheaper to live in those places, for the same standard of living, especially if you're location independent.

Because you're internally-referenced, such that you don't rely on competition to motivate yourself into self-improvement. You're playing the game mostly just to beat your last high score, and maybe the scores of others, just for the fun of it.

Because you see life as a game of getting the most bang (heh) for your buck.

[the high]

The second law of thermodynamics states that "the total entropy of an isolated system always increases over time, or remains constant in ideal cases where the system is in a steady state or undergoing a reversible process". Everything in a sense is getting worse, or basically going to shit. 40 years ago in America you could support a family with only a high school diploma. I'm in my 30's and I don't have the same energy I did 10 years ago. That's just the way things are.

Aristotle says "that excellence is not an act but a habit". You should be looking for ways to improve yourself be it feast or famine. Even in times of drought where I had no one on my roster I'd still be trying; working out, maintaining my diet, and looking for ways I could be better. Because the same way countries aren't the same as they were 10 or 20 years ago, you won't be the same 10 or 20 years from now.

The silver lining is in some ways things are better than they've ever been. It's easier than ever to learn a language with language exchange platforms like italki, airfare is cheaper than ever, knowledge ranging from everything fitness to science is at your fingertips, and game/travel websites like this give guys no excuse to be an incel.

EDIT: wrong thread but I think it still applies

[serpico]

Learning Game 10 years ago required genuine commitment. There was no YouTube PUA's back then, no podcasts or interview series and the like. All we had were a few books and internet forums. It was an underground culture, and was participated in by a fraction of the male population. Now it's mainstream a shit load of poor-to-average wannabe players abound. An unmitigated chump can subscribe to a few podcasts and channels, and with a little determination can at least get a handle on things in a very short amount of time. Which really can only be a good thing.

People are getting wiser to dynamics and are making the most of themselves. Complaining about it would be mean spirited frankly. Though not going to lie, it was a fuck site easier 6 years ago in EE to be out pulling 7s and 8s on the reg, with very little in the way of effort. And yeah, if i could go back to that time id bite your hand off but that's life...

[serpico]

Thinking about it, i think the main difference is Game has gone global. Back then the locals would pretty much all be chodes. Now even in far reaches guys have access to all this information, so you're competing with Game savvy locals, who already have a leg up on you, knowing the language, culture, being in social circle, and what with the rise of nationalism / patriotism (quite reasonable i might add) are seen as better long term partners, than the now ubiquitious PUAs on tour...

[Kieran]

Nowhere is really getting played out. It's never been easy to get quality anywhere. The amount of posts on London and the UK having changed for example completely baffles me, as I've been going out for about 17 1/2 years and it's pretty much the same. And game isn't really wide spread either. Even on this forum, which is a forum about game, most game threads turn into game denialism, with most of the advice being to build muscle, wear a suit and grow a beard, and there's only a handful of posters with a real understanding of game (WIA for example).

[RichieP]

(09-29-2016 03:25 AM)Kieran Wrote:  

Nowhere is really getting played out. It's never been easy to get quality anywhere. The amount of posts on London and the UK having changed for example completely baffles me, as I've been going out for about 17 1/2 years and it's pretty much the same. And game isn't really wide spread either. Even on this forum, which is a forum about game, most game threads turn into game denialism, with most of the advice being to build muscle, wear a suit and grow a beard, and there's only a handful of posters with a real understanding of game (WIA for example).

Spot on. Well said.

IMO a good benchmark is: Can you pull 7s semi regularly - and occasionally 8+s - in a large western city?

Because if not, and your results are drying up in the latest "played out" location, you probably never had game in the first place.

[serpico]

I've come to the conclusion all this 'x is done now' stuff is missing the point. It's the likes of Tinder that have changed the game. Back before it became the norm, if a women wanted to get some sex with someone outside her circle, she'd go to a bar or club and wait to be approached. The very small amount of guys that regularly approach with any modicum of competence had somewhat of a captive market, thus could punch above their weight because the relative lack of other guys he's in direct competition with on a given night. Now if even a relatively attractive girl wants to meet guys she just has to turn her phone on, and she has a whole raft of suitors to choose from. She now has a far more options on any given night, and in aesthetic terms can now find more of an 'equal match' online. The other factors like local populations getting jaded, game being more prevalent etc are valid, but i'd wager far, far less than Tinder and similar dating apps and sites...

[RichieP]

The dynamics always shake out in the end though.

On Tinder it's still only the top guys that pull. You wouldn't believe the number of goodlooking jacked dudes who send the most retarded, reactive, shoot-self-in-foot kind of messages. Girls know these guys will be a shitty experience, just from their first few sentences.

Girls dont want their equal match, they want the best guy they can get - which is the guy who can give them a great experience, i.e. the true player with solid game. The top 20% of guys (game-wise) still get 80% of the chicks. Unless the girl is really consciously moderating her emotions and rationally screening for a future LTR.

The "marketing channel" (nightclub, daytime, tinder) isn't the issue IMO. Online has definitely reduced nightlife crowds somewhat though.

[Kieran]

(09-29-2016 12:36 PM)serpico Wrote:  

I've come to the conclusion all this 'x is done now' stuff is missing the point. It's the likes of Tinder that have changed the game. Back before it became the norm, if a women wanted to get some sex with someone outside her circle, she'd go to a bar or club and wait to be approached. The very small amount of guys that regularly approach with any modicum of competence had somewhat of a captive market, thus could punch above their weight because the relative lack of other guys he's in direct competition with on a given night. Now if even a relatively attractive girl wants to meet guys she just has to turn her phone on, and she has a whole raft of suitors to choose from. She now has a far more options on any given night, and in aesthetic terms can now find more of an 'equal match' online. The other factors like local populations getting jaded, game being more prevalent etc are valid, but i'd wager far, far less than Tinder and similar dating apps and sites...

I have to disagree. It would be like this if girls were logical, but they're not. As soon as they get approached by someone with game, all rational thought goes out of the window. When they start getting turned on, the last thing they're thinking is that maybe they could find someone a bit better looking online.

I see this thinking all the time here - how smart phones and online dating have ruined nightlife etc. The biggest obstacles in nightlife are still a girls negative cock-blocking friends, and her logistics. Smartphones and online dating barely register.

[serpico]

(09-29-2016 04:52 PM)Kieran Wrote:  

(09-29-2016 12:36 PM)serpico Wrote:  

I've come to the conclusion all this 'x is done now' stuff is missing the point. It's the likes of Tinder that have changed the game. Back before it became the norm, if a women wanted to get some sex with someone outside her circle, she'd go to a bar or club and wait to be approached. The very small amount of guys that regularly approach with any modicum of competence had somewhat of a captive market, thus could punch above their weight because the relative lack of other guys he's in direct competition with on a given night. Now if even a relatively attractive girl wants to meet guys she just has to turn her phone on, and she has a whole raft of suitors to choose from. She now has a far more options on any given night, and in aesthetic terms can now find more of an 'equal match' online. The other factors like local populations getting jaded, game being more prevalent etc are valid, but i'd wager far, far less than Tinder and similar dating apps and sites...

I have to disagree. It would be like this if girls were logical, but they're not. As soon as they get approached by someone with game, all rational thought goes out of the window. When they start getting turned on, the last thing they're thinking is that maybe they could find someone a bit better looking online.

I see this thinking all the time here - how smart phones and online dating have ruined nightlife etc. The biggest obstacles in nightlife are still a girls negative cock-blocking friends, and her logistics. Smartphones and online dating barely register.

I agree that yes, when you're up in front of a woman, all is to play for, same as before. However Tinder and the likes have brought say a solid 7 from a position of relative scarcity of potential suitors from outside her social circle, to one of abundance, with borderline zero effort required on her part. This feeds into all aspects of game IMHO. Bottom line is women have far more choice than they had even a few years ago.

It's not the 'end of days' we're talking about here, but society and culture have changed a great deal since the advent of smartphones and wifi. We'd be kidding ourselves not to accept that. The challenge is to change along with it.

[RichieP]

^I'd argue that solid 7 doesn't really have more abundance. All that's happening is she's having more 2-minute conversations on Tinder before quickly realizing "oh, that's why these guys never walked up and approached me..." i.e. confirming most have no charm / ability to excite her / lead the interaction.

She's getting lots of online nibbles of attention, but she gets them in the club too - guys furtively looking then looking away when she's strutting around in dress and makeup. She knows she can have those guys, the same way she can have most guys on Tinder. But in both cases she's frustrated they wont lead the interaction with confidence and charm, and that they crumble when she tests them.

It's the same choice, same array of guys, same distribution of value - i.e. most she would not let come close to hooking up with her, and a few that excite her massively.

It's still the same 20% of guys pulling 80% of the girls. You're right, the marketing channels have changed a lot - but I say the market dynamics have not. Only difference is that some volume of interaction has shifted from clubs to Tinder.

[serpico]

Tinder is 95% looks based. It's much mentioned on here that something approaching 20% of guys on there are getting all the respectable pussy, with a vast army of thirsty, less attractive guys making up the numbers (and granting the women almost constant validation). I really don't think girls look at much beyond photos on it. Maybe internet dating is more about vibe and witty emails, but Tinder is base as it gets with women.

Anyway, my point being that 5 years ago reasonably attractive women had relative scarcity in terms of meeting new men. Now that is absolutely not the case. Again, not saying the sky is falling in on us here, but to not think that has a detrimental effect on cold-approach is kidding yourself. All that being said, your view is frankly healthier, and more power to you for it, but i still think it's fundamentally not true.

[Travesty]

(09-27-2016 08:25 AM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

I hope Travesty was just trolling, because that post screams insecurity like a motherfucker.

Wait sorry I got off script.

I'll go lift some weights and work on being charming. Maybe work on my high kick.

Seriously though, you can have observations about the world and those shouldn't shake your life game plan.

Being so quick to police against observations though is telling.

[SlickyBoy]

(09-25-2016 01:44 PM)aeroektar Wrote:  

(09-25-2016 12:55 PM)erikak Wrote:  

Sadly, it's the beginning of the end for geo pussy arbitrage, and no amount of "game" or looksmaxing will make up for it.

Bullshit. Your a broken record, you have shared this exact sentiment in half of your posts and others have called you out for it. Stop projecting your defeatist attitude on the forum.

The game is over for weak guys like you unwilling to adapt/self improve.

Agreed. Look guys who doubt this, all of the OPs points are valid, but that doesn't mean you should throw in the towel and forget about it. Cruise ships, fat tourists everywhere, long lines at airports and every jackass with a half baked travel blog are just noise - you can work around this. I just returned from an Asian tour where I spent time in Singapore, Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand and Hong Kong. I'm an old dude (48) in decent shape but by no means Mr. Buff and in every one of those countries (except Singapore*) when I walked down the street I got at least a few instances of eyes and smiles from attractive women. Not every attractive woman of course, but enough to where there were obvious sources of potential had I decided to relocate semi-permanently.

I've been in and out of Asia a lot over the years and can tell when a girl is being friendly and when there's signals that could lead to an opener. Things have not changed that much. Sure, the game was different twenty years ago. I remember using beepers in the mid-nineties in Korea - fucking beepers, man - not even email was widely on the scene yet. Technology advanced all around and as it is a commodity, everyone who wants to take advantage of it can still do so. But guess what? It can't turn you into a confident man, even if one day it makes you rich. Don't let a defeatist attitude get you down.

*As for Singapore, all I can say is the women there are socially retarded. As Irish and others have written, daygaming in Singapore is a fruitless endeavor for everybody - and they all speak English! Just weird, I can't really explain it, but you're better off in any other Asian country even if you don't speak their language.

[SlickyBoy]

(09-28-2016 01:58 AM)Bushido Wrote:  

Practically all of the RVFers I know and hang out with continue to do very well for themselves. I just don't see the doom and gloom at all.

But then again, these guys learn the local language, have side businesses, dress well, lift, pay attention to getting superior nutrition, make approaches in real life (not just online)...and generally lead very interesting lives.

Ask yourself: Am I working on building my value or just complaining on the internet?

There are too many of these fail threads lately. We can do better than this.

To sum it up, don't be Charisma Man.

LOVED that series! Soo true, too! Showed it to a fat American friend who spoke fluent Korean and worked for the US government over there - he got pissed but has to admit the reality that he was Charisma Man. That artist had Western Woman dialed in way before RVF came along.

(09-28-2016 01:08 AM)the-dream Wrote:  

This whole "places getting played out" trend on here lately is seem to be largely just a red herring to me.

I think a lot of the guys claiming this have actually just become older and less attractive and so obviously when they return to a place that they had success in during their more attractive days, they'll be less successful. They then blame this lack of success on a place being "played out" when really it is them who has changed, not the place.

Then there's a large proportion of guys who were never had the success that they were hoping to have in a hyped up place and are bitter, again blaming it being "played out".

Then a smaller proportion of guys are actually being objective and speaking some truth but they're a minority.

I'm an older guy but I don't think this. As for a location being played out, it has happened where a place gets mentioned here as a good spot to club game gets ruined. Case in point can be found in one of the Helsinki threads where an RFVer found women locally who said "Oh yeah, we don't go there anymore ever since some Internet pickup guy wrote about it."

[Kieran]

(09-30-2016 09:28 AM)serpico Wrote:  

Tinder is 95% looks based. It's much mentioned on here that something approaching 20% of guys on there are getting all the respectable pussy, with a vast army of thirsty, less attractive guys making up the numbers (and granting the women almost constant validation). I really don't think girls look at much beyond photos on it. Maybe internet dating is more about vibe and witty emails, but Tinder is base as it gets with women.

Anyway, my point being that 5 years ago reasonably attractive women had relative scarcity in terms of meeting new men. Now that is absolutely not the case. Again, not saying the sky is falling in on us here, but to not think that has a detrimental effect on cold-approach is kidding yourself. All that being said, your view is frankly healthier, and more power to you for it, but i still think it's fundamentally not true.

Serpico, no matter how many men there are behind their smartphones sending her messages, I would always prefer to be the man who is in front of her in the bar / club. Competition and obstacles are coming at us from all angles, but honestly, online competition is the least of my concerns.

[erikak]

(09-30-2016 10:54 AM)SlickyBoy Wrote:  

*Singapore is a fruitless endeavor

http://www.allsingaporestuff.com/article...men-better

^ This is a perception which has been growing across Asia for years.

[zoom]

I can't imagine how anyone with decent game would be threatened by online dating. You think a girl would ditch you, a guy she met in real life, to go hang out with someone from a dating app? No way. Real life meetings create connections and feelings, online interactions don't mean much.

Also, most guys on dating apps can't approach girls in real life, and most girls know this. And most girls on dating apps aren't going to be stunners.

However, the RSD guys out there spam approaching in the streets... now that could potentially makes things more difficult.

[RichieP]

(09-30-2016 01:46 PM)erikak Wrote:  

(09-30-2016 10:54 AM)SlickyBoy Wrote:  

*Singapore is a fruitless endeavor

http://www.allsingaporestuff.com/article...men-better

^ This is a perception which has been growing across Asia for years.

That's a really shoddy article - some chick's report of a few dates on a trashy content site - and hardly support for your overarching claim. Continued repetitive negativity doesn't add value here. We are about opportunity, stepping up, and making things happen.

[Drix]

(09-30-2016 01:46 PM)erikak Wrote:  

(09-30-2016 10:54 AM)SlickyBoy Wrote:  

*Singapore is a fruitless endeavor

http://www.allsingaporestuff.com/article...men-better

^ This is a perception which has been growing across Asia for years.

Can you stop? Now I really know why TravelerKai said hard words to you.

First: The site is trashy.

Second:The writer isn`t objective and talk with anger and generalize all the westerners. Seems that this article was posted to refer people as you.

Third: I think Goldiggers were interviewed, talking about luxury,expensive dinners,jets.

I could understand that You were a newbie and your first post can show negativity or not be aware of the rules, But you keep posting bullshit and even trolling in differente threads, saying that everything is declining, your online 9,the 16 years old chinese, and expecting bad wishes from your poor experiences.

Relate to online resources, I agree with Zoom, Many girls still value more a man who can approach with condifence than an online writer.

[DoctaWho]

I cringed a little when I read the OPs post. The truth is popular destinations aren't getting played out the world is changing. The too long don't read is that desirable men will always be desirable and in short supply no matter where they are. Most men don't fall into that upper echelon of desirability and as places are overrun with a bunch of average dudes it's hard to stand out. As women are getting fucked over with nothing to show for it many are becoming more discerning.

No place is getting played it but the bar is getting higher in a lot of places. Those days when you're perceived as rich just for being white or from the west are going away. You're also no longer only competing with small number of guys who hop on a plane, you're also competing with local guys who have their shit together and realize their value as well as large numbers of sex tourists (technically that's what you are if you go to a country to chase pussy even if you don't outright pay). It seems that in a lot of places outside the west, the middle class is expanding.

If you want to succeed you can't rely on being white or having people assume you're wealthy, you have to show and prove. I remember one night in BKK this chick spent all night talking to a mid 20s white guy and he was in until her friend came over and they realized the guy was pretty much broke despite the shit he talked. They left with a Thai guy in a BMW. There's also stories on here of guys crashing and burning because they stayed in a shitty part of town, couldn't afford to take a chick on a date, lost the girl to a guy who was willing to spend (not outright cash but could buy a bottle or nice dinner)...

As the standard of living increases in a lot of countries it's also going to become harder to portray oneself as living a lifestyle above what the most of the country they're in does. What that means is that you're no longer going to be able to hop off a plane and expect access to the best women unless you catch them young, dumb and unwanted or you actually have your shit together. Hell there's a chance that even the Philippines is going to be harder for western men in 5 years.

The few truly international players I have met in my life based on seeing them in action and stories they told are successful no matter where they go. None of them were great looking, super tall or even super rich and most were over 40. That said, most of them dressed well, spoke more than one language, had enough money to live a good lifestyle and knew who to talk to to get access to the social circle they wanted.

[262]

Some other reasons why it might seem as if "popular game destinations are getting played out" -

1) As you pass your 20s, you get less horny. I'm sure we all remember our early teenage years when lingerie ads seemed exciting.

2) As you spend more time in a place, you get used to the standards there - including the standards of beauty.

3) As you improve yourself, your standards for women go up.

4) As you experience more women, each woman becomes less unique (not necessarily bad, but not necessarily good either - find a balance).

[HOD]

First of all there aren't that many kool places to meet thin attractive women to begin with, that is a fact and not fiction.

Lets be honest who wants to go to Finland, Moscow and etc during the winter. Its not fun. Yes the girls are hotter, and there's not much to do there, and the food sucks.

So how many kool places are left to visit? Lets be honest.

1. There are over 7.6 billlion people on this planet, so competition will occur.

2. Basically the internet will speed up the knowledge of all good spots.