[Tenerife]

And of course, this was pre-smartphones, Tinder, modern internet dating and social media, as well as modern PUA. So yes, social circle and nights out were really the only way people met. I'd bite your hand off to go back to those times myself.


[/quote]

Exactly.

All of these cities are being affected by guys spam texting, dudes going to clubs, etc. As well as the dramatic increase in foreign students from every middle eastern and african country you can imagine, hitting on girls in class.

[Zanardi]

(09-18-2016 12:36 AM)Pokerbaby Wrote:  

Simple solution to all of this...go to smaller cities to day game.

If you like standing by yourself downtown only to have a girl passing by each 20-30 minutes, then it's a good idea.

[Half Century]

(09-18-2016 12:54 PM)serpico Wrote:  

(09-18-2016 11:06 AM)Half Century Wrote:  

Holy f-ck, I used to live in Prague and Poland, total 5 years! Too bad to hear what is happening now because I was thinking of re-visiting these cities.

I never remember guys doing obvious PUA cold street approaches during the day, but that was mid 90's to 2001. Most of it was night game in Prague, and there were plenty of venues for mostly American expats who started coming over post Velvet Revolution '89. Lots of new American bars, coffee shops, restaurants, live classic rock music bars, jazz clubs, rave parties, language school parties, etc.

In general, compared to previous years, honeymoon was over around '96. I think Praguers were starting to get fed up with the frat boy Animal House atmosphere the new stream of American expats created. They lorded it over with their dollars. Lots of rudeness towards foreigners began to manifest.

Czech Prague girls were gradually becoming cynical: bait and switch, sudden personality changes, defiant flakes. Better to pursue Czech or Slovak girls from smaller cities who were living in Prague. They were not so jaded.

You didn't need to run up to girls in the street with your PUA routine!! You didn't need Roosh's book or any other pick-up method book! It was incredibly easy to get a date, compared to the U.S.A. Just go to a bar or coffee shop or hot night spot, or at the school you taught English, through social circle, etc.
And, at least 75% of the women were 9's or 10's!!!! Fashion model level hotness everywhere. They really liked Americans and other expats from English-speaking countries- of course, they got free English conversation lessons.
Back in the mid-90's - 2001, You didn't need to dress up, get a haircut, wear cologne. What are you, a businessman? Some guys did their laundry in their bathtub and dried it on the radiator, walked around unshaven, long hair, unkempt- no one gave a flying f-ck.

And of course, this was pre-smartphones, Tinder, modern internet dating and social media, as well as modern PUA. So yes, social circle and nights out were really the only way people met. I'd bite your hand off to go back to those times myself.

Maybe i'm just a nostalgic, but in that time it seemed far easier to make genuine connections with people once you got to know them. Now an attractive girl, can go for a shit, take her phone out and scroll through thirsty guys on Tinder for ego gratification. The surplus of choice that they now enjoy, makes a lot of them act in a far more shallow way IMHO. Plus when people were out for drinks, coffee, in parties or nights out they didnt have mobile phones to text, check facebook, answer calls and generally be disconnected to the moment on, but i digress...

Oh, f-ck yes! I agree. I hate when women I am with or approaching take out their ffing mobile phones!

"Surplus of choice"- real life less real.



I left Prague in late 2001. I am considering a short visit to Prague soon because I have an American friend from those days there (who had kids with a Czech girl, now divorced), but reading this thread I am thinking any daygame PUA might really hard now anywhere in EE!

[Feldeinsamkeit]

(09-17-2016 08:52 PM)Tenerife Wrote:  

I've been in Kiev doing daily street approaches for the past 1.5 months.

This city is absolutely saturated with daygamers and it's probably only going to get worse. The main street of Kreshchatik is of course completely overrun.

As for the OP's main concern, I agree that daygame is going to become less effective.

The fact that you approached her during the day is no longer going to be as special as it once was. The novelty of the approach itself has diminished a lot. The mindset I have is that I see a beautiful girl and I'm going to give it my shot. I have an opportunity to speak to a girl that I particularly fancy. I'm not hoping that she'll be overwhelmed by the novelty of it. I think it makes you stand out far more than a night approach or a message on tinder of course, but as more men start doing this, it will be less of a "once in a blue moon romantic event". At this point, it feels like you just have to appreciate the fact that you get access to the girl at all.

Here in Kiev, girls give out rejections like it's nothing. They aren't wowed by the fact you approached. Now girls still find it attractive that a guy has the balls to come up and talk to them, but blowouts are extremely common and women here who aren't interested aren't even phased.

The other thing is that the biggest competition you have for the top end girls isn't other daygamers. This almost makes me laugh. Here in Kiev, the biggest competition is 1. local dudes, even if they are ugly and poorly dressed 2. online game and 3. foreign students that study at universities

Online game is a far bigger threat than even a hoard of daygamers. Every girl here has an instagram and gets spam messaged daily. Many have tinder, badoo, or are getting hit up on VK or facebook by dudes offering to fly them to Turkey and pay for their vacation. When a girl can go on a date with a guy who is either 2 notches more attractive than you off a dating site, or get paid a full vacation by an ugly dude that will sponsor her, or perhaps get an attractive dude with cash, the daygamer fades into the background as just another option in a sea of options that any particular woman here has. This is particularly true of the upper tier, many of whom are locked down by the better quality local dudes.

I've talked to other guys here in Kiev that have been here before and they relate the same feeling that it has gotten more difficult, that you never used to see many guys doing daygame. Now it's an absolute free for all. But I also wonder how much of it is just the increased amount of online activity by girls.

The other day I was on a date with a girl I've been seeing here for a few weeks and hanging out with some of her friends at a cafe. She went to the pharmacy for 5 minutes to get something for her friend. We were on a really random street that was almost deserted. When she came back she said a Slovakian guy had approached her and asked her for her number. That was in the middle of nowhere.

There have been some pretty hilarious experiences here when the RVF crew has daygamed in a pack. It becomes a clusterfuck real quickly when more than a few dudes are daygaming in one spot.

You know things are bad when even Slovakian guys are having to travel eastwards to find a woman these days. For a guy grinding it out in the thirstbucket that is the UK, it's a no-brainer to try for sunnier pastures, but for a Slovakian guy?!

[serpico]

(09-18-2016 07:57 AM)NewMeta Wrote:  

Theres a street attraction bootcamp happening in Wroclaw right now, im actually watching these guys from inside a coffee shop walk round in circles in the rynek (all with leather jackets btw its actually fucking hilarious how typical this stereotype is) in groups of 2/3 doing nothing because its raining and no one is out. Money well spent lads, goodluck.

lol.. For the life of me i cant understand why people pay money for coaching in anything Game related. It's just talking to girls FFS. I guess they're just followers, hence the adoption of the 'uniform'. Monkey see, monkey do. They're just being taken in by slick marketing for the most part, i suspect. It's a pretty alluring image these gurus sell, i'm guessing most of them are pretty young too. Glad i came up when i did frankly, so many sheisters out there, maybe if i was a horny 19 year old i'd get taken in by it too.

It's the spam approach thing that is fucking up places. Approaching without some form of IOI is uncalibrated and gives off a weird vibe from the off. If a girl checks you out and you approach she knows that she has given you a signal and you've acted on it, which is a far more attractive trait than just running up to any girl you might want to fuck in the street and chancing your arm IMHO.

[godzilla]

The game is changing, now you have to change with it.

I saw a fair amount of daygaming in Belgrade. But Budapest, Zagreb or Bucharest don't seem to be overrun by PUAs.

I'd assume the winter is still on your side, how many guys are out there daygaming then?

Are these girls any less attractive then they were five years ago? If not then these cities aren't really ruined yet.....You just competition now...Embrace it

[Teedub]

Most of this can be blamed on false advertising and dishonest coaching. Telling weirdo aspie types or seriously ugly guys that daygame can make them ladykillers if they just go to X country is bollocks. I'm fortunate that everyone I've met from this forum in real life has been a normal person - but there were a few at Roosh's lecture (maybe 5 out of 70 people) that I can imagine would definitely tarnish the reputation of guys doing cold/warm approaches.

[polar]

In general, it's supply and demand. Each location is different at different times:

Demand:
-native local gamers (fluent in the language)
-non-native local gamers (long term residents - a major factor in towns like Prague)
-visiting guys - numbers spike in tourist season. A mix of game aware and non-aware but most are thirsty
-non-game aware local dudes

Supply:
-visiting talent - negligible factor in most locations, tourist season
-native talent: deserves a breakdown:
-students: usually the best time is early September and mid spring. Those who stay in town in summer spend more time out and about
-young professionals: fairly constant, might spend more time out and about in summer, or go away.

The kicker is that the talent in town does not benefit from an increase of sausage. Most of the students and young professionals are latched onto local dudes. And as they spend more time out and about in good weather, there is exponentially more sausage to hit on them...causing fatigue.

[Kaizen]

Roosh said it best in his speech..it has become a pussy arms race.

Women are getting worse..moreso in the West. And men are responding by getting on a plane more often and learning necessary skill sets like day approaches.

I can certainly see a girl might feel 'here we go again' with you approaching...but at the end of the day, it's still up to the player to convert her feelings into positive ones.

[Lucky]

I've watched several RSD videos on youtube and they aggressively advocate the spam approach style.

One Tyler video he says "You'll approach thousands and thousands of girls, and then one girl likes you. Then you approach a few thousand more and another likes you. Now you have 2 girls in your rotation, you're a player!"

They're selling a dream and poisoning the well.

[Armada]

I'm probably going to sound really hypocritical as I was one myself.

But these gamma autistic losers really need to leave those girls alone. Let the guys who actually have a chance talk to them.

[CodyB]

*Note* I edited a fucking large chunk of my post so if anyone quoted/replied me, sorry. My thoughts changed a bit after replying.

There has to be a tipping point. At what point is being spam approached going to be a normal thing for most girls we would 7+? 6+? etc. etc. Not only will doing this kind of thing in SEA and EE result in diminished returns, it will actually change the whole sexual market place..

SEA are all very patriarchal societies where females compete for male attention by dressing feminine and even (in the case of Asia especially) making themselves more attractive through surgery. The bottom 95% males in these societies do not benefit from stable or high incomes, they are prone to drinking, fuck around a lot (in the case of Thailand) 95% of men in these regions would be considered the deadbeats, bogans and hill billies of society if you transported them to the west.


I'll use SEA as an example because I don't know enough about EE. SEA is highly patriarchal, high rates of university education (especially amongst women), burgeoning middle class that makes less than $1000 USD a month on average. Men in Thailand, from a young age are encouraged to run free while females are instructed from a young age to study hard, become proficient in the kitchen, be clean, feminine and extremely polite. 95% of the guys fuck around through school, pay off their teachers to pass, spend their time, money (and their girls money) watching football, drinking and chasing ass. In fact, they have douchebag game down pat. 5% of the males come from wealth, are applied to their studies and use typical beta behaviour in courtship, mainly because they have fuck you money.

You do not need to spam approach here. A lot of people counter the high percentage of sluts that gravitate towards the nightclubs with daygame at the mall. Once upon a time in the west, it was possible to find the woman of your dreams by sheepishly asking for her phone number. If you were well dressed, perceivably well-off, or at least stable and had good manners that was basically your ticket to finding a beautiful girl. This still works in Thailand and I presume Eastern Europe(Chime in?). You like that office girl? Ask for her Line ID. You don't need to run your best opener because A) They probably don't get it and B) The sexual market place isn't so fucked up that girls 'need' to be gamed.

[Oneitis]

I think London could be the worst example of this. Oxford Street is completely burned. I mean COMPLETELY! I've had guys jump in front of me to approach a girl I was about to approach, girls tell me this is the 5th time this has happened to them this week, and groups of up to 5 of them walking along together! I just don't get what goes through their minds. London was hard enough to begin with, and daygame seemed like the answer, but that ship has sailed.

[Phoenix]

(09-19-2016 12:04 AM)Lucky Wrote:  

I've watched several RSD videos on youtube and they aggressively advocate the spam approach style.

One Tyler video he says "You'll approach thousands and thousands of girls, and then one girl likes you. Then you approach a few thousand more and another likes you. Now you have 2 girls in your rotation, you're a player!"

They're selling a dream and poisoning the well.

For their own financial benefit; they couldn't give a fuck about men actually succeeding. RSD Tyler is a straight-up psychopath, possibly even a lunatic.

[NewMeta]

I see you PUAs on twitter complaining about this thread, denial is strong in alot of you.

[zatara]

(09-19-2016 12:04 AM)Lucky Wrote:  

I've watched several RSD videos on youtube and they aggressively advocate the spam approach style.

One Tyler video he says "You'll approach thousands and thousands of girls, and then one girl likes you. Then you approach a few thousand more and another likes you. Now you have 2 girls in your rotation, you're a player!"

They're selling a dream and poisoning the well.

Thats terrible. All it would take would be a hundred guys doing this in a city to completely destroy the downtown area's vibe, and rapidly inflate women's ego and annoyance levels for dating in general.

Plus its a downright awful use of their own time. If they're approaching a few thousand girls to get laid once its just not a good hours-spent-to-bang ratio.

[Saladin]

People say Toronto daygame is over-saturated, yet the only area that I see guys doing cold approaches in the day is the Dundas Square area which is played out. Otherwise, there are tons of locations in the city where girls aren't approached at all and the overall vibe is much better, and girls are friendlier.

If the so-called worst city in the West has tons of locations where you can daygame for weeks without seeing another guy approaching, then I"m sure that most EE countries are fine.

Most pick up guys are far too unimaginative to actually go to lower volume but higher quality locations.

[britabroad]

I had a female friend that got double approached at Wholefoods near Regent St, London. One guy outside spamming, one guy sitting down with girls in the seating area one after another.

Not seen anything myself having walked down Oxford St a couple of times recently

[Tenerife]

I'm not even worried about other guys day gaming. Its like worrying about guys gaming anywhere else.

I don't necessarily agree with the idea that just because a woman has been approached before that day she will be less open to me. Women understand that they are the ones who are chased. Most girls I talk to don't seem worried about being approached. They get immediately what's going on and are either interested or disinterested. Few girls I believe are actually disturbed by polite men trying to strike up a conversation with them on the street.

[XXL]

Many of you mention how all those guys look the same and do the same thing. So why not do something different to stand out?

Nobody says that leather jacket is THE thing to wear or that hitting on a girl on the street is the way to break the ice.

To me good game doesn't look like game. Many guys take pride that by approaching girls [for example in daytime] they do something so different and therefore they stand out from other guys therefore girls will be very impressed. To me it's the opposite. The more casual and typical that interaction starts and goes on the better. I prefer to completely blend in the crowd and make it as if it's total accident that we talk to each other.

From technical standpoint I think the best approach is completely randomly pointing out something about the girl almost like you thinking out loud. There is this thread here on game section named "learn to notice" or something like that. That's very useful way to break the ice and come across as natural and spontaneous.

[serpico]

Thinking about this, i'm pretty sure EE over-farming will be for the most part seasonal. These clones will soon be Wintering back in their mum's basements come December...

Re London - Yes Oxford Street may be burned out, but it's a city of 10m people. You've just got to go to a less obvious spot. Why people would want to hang around Oxford Street for long anyway is beyond me. Far more interesting parts of town, where you get higher value women (in my personal preference at least). Southbank and Portobello were good spots, but then bare in mind i was last hitting it there around 4 years ago...

[serpico]

I was listening to Tom Torero's podcast a while back, and he mentioned that listnership had gone through the roof of late. Think he said he was getting over 50k subs, though not certain of that. I could be wrong, but I'd imagine that a sizeable percentage of people who are interested in Daygame would be subbed to him at this point.

For mental masturbation purposes, lets make a few baseless speculations, lets say 50% of those interested in daygame listen, that would make 100,000 daygamers or wannabes. Lets say 50,000 of them are active, and 25,000 are based in Europe.

They are pretty much all sold on the whole EE daygame holiday / relocation image at this point as it's constantly sold to them, and as EE has the hottest girls, and is economical. Then bare in mind that all these guys that do bootcamps and 'training wheel' holidays all seem focused around the same 4 or 5 cities, Prague, Krakow, Warsaw, Budapest, Kiev.

That would be a fairly substantial influx in those cities at any given time in the spring / summer months... Like at any one point in that 'daygame season' there would be at least a few thousand out there in a fairly small amount of cities and locations within those cities. These places are bound to feel the burn of that after a while...

Clearly i have just pulled all these numbers out of thin air, and frankly it's spurious logic at best, but i feel that those numbers wouldn't be a million miles away from reality.

[Tenerife]

(09-18-2016 02:28 PM)Feldeinsamkeit Wrote:  

(09-17-2016 08:52 PM)Tenerife Wrote:  

The other day I was on a date with a girl I've been seeing here for a few weeks and hanging out with some of her friends at a cafe. She went to the pharmacy for 5 minutes to get something for her friend. We were on a really random street that was almost deserted. When she came back she said a Slovakian guy had approached her and asked her for her number. That was in the middle of nowhere.

There have been some pretty hilarious experiences here when the RVF crew has daygamed in a pack. It becomes a clusterfuck real quickly when more than a few dudes are daygaming in one spot.

You know things are bad when even Slovakian guys are having to travel eastwards to find a woman these days. For a guy grinding it out in the thirstbucket that is the UK, it's a no-brainer to try for sunnier pastures, but for a Slovakian guy?!

I met a guy here who is running game a day or so after this and he says that he met a ton of Slovakians in Ukraine, that they roll around Eastern Europe in packs and that Bratislava has quite a large PUA culture.

[RichieP]

(09-19-2016 10:49 AM)Saladin Wrote:  

People say Toronto daygame is over-saturated, yet the only area that I see guys doing cold approaches in the day is the Dundas Square area which is played out. Otherwise, there are tons of locations in the city where girls aren't approached at all and the overall vibe is much better, and girls are friendlier.

If the so-called worst city in the West has tons of locations where you can daygame for weeks without seeing another guy approaching, then I"m sure that most EE countries are fine.

Most pick up guys are far too unimaginative to actually go to lower volume but higher quality locations.

Exactly.

This is a tiny micro trend. A couple of streets where girls are a bit more on guard. Not "whole country ruined" - Lol.

More reasons why this is a non-issue:

-Hot girls have been "approached", stared at and creeped on in the day by volumes of lecherous dudes since the dawn of modern society. Builders, cat-callers, creepy-creepy men, losers hollering out their car window. Daygamers are benign in terms of contribution to bitch-shields

-Most guys doing spam approaches are newbies and they suck. Girls swat them like flies and forget about them 5 seconds later.

-Even the bitchiest, busiest girl can be stopped in seconds by an actual solidly attractive guy who opens well.

-There are overall macro trends that make things harder - obesity/diet is probably the worst, in terms of supply of attractive girls. Daygamers are not a macro trend though. lol.

[Distant Light]

Haven't been on here in ages...

If "daygame" is your MAIN pathway (should be a supplement) then you along with all spammers deserve to deal with the BS...

I finally got to travel, ironically in Prague...

Had I been single, I could see the major potential to truly live it up. I didn't really see guys daygaming BUT ALSO...
- I barely hungout in old town
- Been out in praha 3, 4, and 7 (different world)
- Less than 3-4hrs was already invited to house parties, private boat party and some guy willing to have his personal driver show me around
- Have a map showing location of different underground spots
- Got inside info of where LOCALS go

I was only in prague for 6 days...

Like other poster said "a man of value will never go out of style". I was getting invites to germany and poland.

Guys doing all this daygame trying to get laid are wasting their lives. I too find all the pua youtube channels super generic...Guys thinking they're cool because they kissed or hugged a chick who exchanfe numbers

Clearly I lack experience BUT based on what I experienced in prague, the ability to build a lifestyle and maintain an unreal sex life is far easier than nyc. (Russian bottle girl of club in old town exchange info in less than 2mins...If I were single would have been a done deal)

When I say I had "hit the ground running" 9:45pm I landed 2am I was taken to praha 7, doing shots with a local guy while getting texts from a german guy who was owner of a music label that invited me to an after party.

One thing I learnt quickly is that guys are missing out on the city as a whole. Majority of my friends who were there (didnt hang with at night) disliked prague. However, I have some unrelated to women stories that were some of the most awesome times. My friends only know old town, I got to get a glimpse of the actual city. (Many local czechs never even been to old town)

I say let dudes continue to spam, they just make the barrier for entry that much higher as they annoy women as a whole. The "demand" for cool guys are getting higher and higher as the world gets plagued with social retards, thirsty dudes, young sponsor types and the forgetton nice/prociders...

P.S...In every city there will always be areas that PUA types don't know of nor venture because their lairs aren't aware, able too or simply just don't have the connects to know...From what i gathered in 6 days, prague has a low key heavy party scene. 2x in a row I was at a spot that was still going 9-10am...Although, I assume these 2 chicks were hookers, 2 girls were really trying to get my attention until finally the blantantly just stand infront of me making out (My gf was back in NY and wasn't gonna be influenced)

P.S.S...If dude is thinking 1 of 30 to get laid and is teaching pickup then that in itself shows that people are going about daygame totally wrong and aren't having a legit active sex life unless they are putting in tons of hours.