[kbronik]

OP, are you saying you got laid 9 times since starting this journal? I did a quick browse of this thread and it seems like you go to the club/bar and that is the only place you go to get girls? Is that how you found all 9 girls to bang?

Also, I don't believe you when you say you bang 6.5s and stuff. If you actually got laid 9 times then you were banging 3s or 4s at most.

It is only in the movies that clubs/bars are easy places to get laid. It is all about looks. Game doesn't exist. It makes no sense to say if you ask out 100 girls a few will say yes. If one 6 says no, then all other 6s will say no. Magic is not real: there is grand lay-master god saying "ok he asked 200 girls now, time to let at least 9 of them bang him." That is not how it works.

Maybe it is much easier in the UK though? In North America you can't pull a girl in a club unless you are an 8/10 or above chad. Well you can, but you need to lower your standards to 3 points. So me, as a 6/10, would be able to get laid with 3/10s in clubs, but that is not worth spending a night out for. So clubs/bars are just like online dating/tinder: you will get girls 3 points less than you, no higher. So they are both pretty much useless methods. Girls literally know they will get hit on by a lot of guys at clubs, so they specifically put their guards up and only lower it for chad. Why the fuck would a 6.5 girl agree to bang a sub 8/10 guy she met at the club when she will get at least one 8/10+ chad approaching her that night or at worst the next week.

[kbronik]

(11-09-2017 04:43 PM)subterfuge Wrote:  

crunching some estimated numbers, I appear to get laid once every 250 approaches or so, so if I get the money to do a small trip to EE, i'll hopefully be able to get laid over the course of a 2-4 days if I can approach say 300 girls in a target rich environement

You said you got laid 9 times, so once every 250 times means you did 2250 approaches, and that your rate of return is 0.4%. I think you are wasting your time bro.. it is all about looks, game does not exist. Those girls you DID bang: the only reason was that they were 3 points below you. Just use tinder for that. Much less effort and time. Or just drop your standards. Go and ask 3/10s and your rate will be much higher than 0.4%. Even if you are saying the truth (that the 9 girls you banged were higher than 3s.. so like they were 6s and 7s)... I still would not do what you are doing because it means literally going out every week when I don't enjoy clubbing. It is WAY too much effort for too little returns... you did not even get a girlfriend out of this.. just 9 random sluts who you will never see again. Might as well get a girlfriend that way you won't have to spend so much effort for sex each time. Or just use escorts. Why are you torturing yourself by spending such a high % of your life putting so much effort for such poor returns. Your lifestyle would make sense if you were banging 7s and 8s every week because that would justify it.

[King of Monkeys]

I've never seen anything more pathetic than this. You are going out of your way to tear down a member who has put consistent time and effort into improving their life, and who has not only done that but continues to get better.

You seem to have a lot of emotional hangups to the point where you are desperately trying to put down other people to make yourself feel better. I would suggest seeing a psychologist about it cause you got some problems, dude.

[subterfuge]

(04-09-2018 02:19 AM)kbronik Wrote:  

OP, are you saying you got laid 9 times since starting this journal? I did a quick browse of this thread and it seems like you go to the club/bar and that is the only place you go to get girls? Is that how you found all 9 girls to bang?

yes and yes

(04-09-2018 02:19 AM)kbronik Wrote:  

Also, I don't believe you when you say you bang 6.5s and stuff.

I'm sorry to hear that!

(04-09-2018 02:19 AM)kbronik Wrote:  

If you actually got laid 9 times then you were banging 3s or 4s at most.

I'm not sure what the rules are about pics. Maybe I could PM Roosh a few pics of some of the hotter ones and he can give his official rating lol
According to my friends, the air hostess was a '9'. (I'd say a 7.5 personally)
The 17/18 year old was my idea of an 8.5.

(04-09-2018 02:19 AM)kbronik Wrote:  

It is all about looks. Game doesn't exist.

Unfortunately for you, your account will likely be banned within a matter of hours based on that one sentence, lol. This ain't like the RSD forums

I'm not gonna fight you loads on this though , tbh. I'm not even 100% sure where *I* stand on the whole looks/game stuff to be honest.
I tend to think the girl needs to think you are at least somewhat good looking for you to have a shot with her.
But it sounds like you are one of the sluthate/lookism crowd who believes that social skills counts for absolutely nothing, and that you need to be Jordan Barrett to get laid. I don't agree with that.
Even though I think the girl needs to think you are good looking, I think that what a girl thinks of as good looking can vary more than you think.

(04-09-2018 02:19 AM)kbronik Wrote:  

you did not even get a girlfriend out of this.. Might as well get a girlfriend that way you won't have to spend so much effort for sex each time. Or just use escorts

Believe it or not, I have almost no interest in getting a 'girlfriend'. Never have had, tbh! I could have EASILY made at least 2 of the girls my 'girlfriend' - i even mentioned it in one of the LR's about how one of the girls was literally begging me to be her new boyfriend! No thanks.

And i'm not really interested in hookers either, tbh. Plus the hot ones are too rich for my blood!!

(04-09-2018 02:19 AM)kbronik Wrote:  

Maybe it is much easier in the UK though?

haha! I really don't think so! Christ. We have a well known culture of not talking to strangers here compared to the US. Cold appraoch is far from easy in most of the UK!! Trust me!

As for wasting my time, I don't see it like that. I'm out with my friends having a drink and stuff anyway!! It's not like i'm dragging myself out to approach girls instead of doing something else! There is no 'opportunity cost'. I've just made approaching on nights out a part of my night now. And to be honest, it would have been worth it based on that one teenager from last year alone, in my eyes! I still have the video footage from her bedroom that I enjoy from time to time!! haha

Edit: Ooops. I see he's already been banned as predicted!

[subterfuge]

Sat

Approached 2 stunning blonde girls who I opened with my friend. Up there with the worst 'shields' i've ever seen haha. They were Lithuanian, but their reaction was just how you imagine some 10/10 in LA might be, Utter contempt lol! Sort of like they were Royalty.

Opened, made an observation. Looked at me like a scientist looking at a new cell under a microscope. Quickly decided to flip tactics and paid her a compliment. Same reaction. Teased her about something. Same reaction. My friend was getting the exact same stuff from the other girl which actually made me laugh inside and made this painful exchange much less painful! lol
I remembered a JulienRSD vid where some hot LA girl was doing this exact thing to him, and I decided to steal his lines that he used in the video, so I said ''Stop trying to hard! Be normal!'' It actually 'kind of' worked in that it got her to talk back (a tiny bit), but she still wasn't giving me anything. I used another of his lines and said something like ''Imagine it's Christmas morning!
You can be happy!'' and she smiled and told her friend (who was still ignoring my friend) what i'd said. I asked her some questions about herself which she answered in the shortest possible way each time, whilst simutaneously scanning the room. We both gave up after about 2 minutes of this (which felt like about an hour!)

I tihnk I made like 6 other approaches, but no luck

I might make a separate thread about the Lithuanian girls, as I since this reaction seems so common (girls basically just ignoring you waiting for you tot go away, but no actually saying '''Fuck off!!! I'm not interested'' I want to know the 'best' way to plow / things to say in order to give myself the best chance as getting them to 'hook' a little. Cold reads, observations, DHV stories etc doesn't seem to cut the mustard in my experience.)

[King of Monkeys]

You could try talking to the wall. It's something I'm experimenting with myself.

Basically, talking to unreactive girls who give you nothing to go on are a lot like walls. So an exercise some guys use is they talk to a wall for a few minutes to get the feeling for it. There's a little more to it though. You essentially talk about whatever you want to talk about and try to make it as interesting as possible, and the goal is to keep rambling with a continuous flow.

You could talk about your day, things you thought were funny, or just make things up. The goal at first is simply to keep talking without stopping. The idea is you're generating your own positive emotions without needing any kind of reaction from the girls, and you're just freely sharing all this stuff because you like it/think it's cool.

I usually just practice every night in a handheld mirror for around 2 to 5 minutes while recording myself, then listen back to it. I figure this might also help you out with trying to think of things to say. If you're willing to ramble about anything, you might find you have more things to talk about than you previously thought.

[subterfuge]

Went too an actual 'club' for the first time in like a decade last night lol. (I usually go to bars and pubs)

Full of gorgeous looking 18 year olds! So many stunners

Opened 2 girls in a bar before heading to the club.
I think I opened them by playfully accusing them of stealing my 'spot' in the beer garden. Started chatting. Cold read her off of her handshake as being a business woman and she actually was and we joked around a bit.

My one laughed but the other girl seemed to hate me and kept rolling her eyes at me and saying sarcastic stuff towards me, although she clearly badly wanted to bang my handsome mate who didn't even talk but just stood next to me lol. She eye fulled him loads and kept trying to get him to talk.
Fizzled out after like 10 mins and then went too a different bar.


Then to the club:
First set was when I was dancing and 2 hot girls starting dance near me (although this happens non stop when i'm with this particular friend as he's ike ridiculously handsome and girls are often opening him and stuff)

I made eye contact with her and kind of smiled in a suspicious way (best way I can describe it). I then told her she was 'annoyingly hot' lol. Never used that line before and it just came to my head but I might use it again as you could say that it 'worked' as it seemed to tickled her. I asked her name and guessed her age and playfully disqualified myself about being too old for her, but I messed up as I often do in terms of 'premature ejectualtion'. After i'd made a quick cold read and asked her name and stuff, since she wasn't asking me things back, I found myself struggling for things to say and very soon her friend started talking in her ear and they just drifted away lol. Also not even sure if i'm supposed to be talking on the dancefloor really. As I say, i've not tried actula dancefloor club game in like a decade!

Opened another girl dancing and told her she had tiny feet as my opener (self amusement/observation) and she kind of laughed, and then I asked her to dance and she was like 'what?''. I said 'come here and dance with me' but then she looked at me like a retard and backturned lol.

Tried to open another girl by making eye contact and extending my hand towards her for her to take (how RSD ozzy advises to open on the dancefloor I think), but she looked at me/ blanked me and backturned.

Some blonde girl approaches my friend and tells him he's hot and then starts grinding on his dick and asking him questions and stuff

I Danced up to her friend and kind of playfully beckoned her towards me (constantly experimenting!! thought it might be better than the arm extended thing) but she shook her head as if to say 'no' and didn't look like she was playing lol

Not sure how best to game on the dancefloor really. Nothing was seeming to work really

Then some smoking hot Italian girl walked up to my friend and started rubbing his chest and just eye fucking the shit out of him.

They start talking. She has a hot friend so I try to wing him and talk to her, make a cold read, ask her some questions, but nothing i do 'works' tbh. She just wasn't into me at all. Didn't know what to try in order to make her talk back and engage. I tried everything i've read about but I guess the initial/physical attraction on her part wasn't strong enough

My friend starts kissing his one and it's a bit awkward as me and her friend are just kind of in silence now and I occasionally try to engage her again but she's still not interested and is barely talking back and she's seemingly looking around for new guys who are more her type.

Later at the cab rank I notice a GORGEOUS girl. She's maybe a 9/10. I knew she'd be Foreign and it turns out she was Polish. I went a bit more direct and told her I thought she was cute and I said some stuff IN Polish to make her laugh. She was quite receptive and smiled but barely spoke back. It was late and I guess she was tired and had likely been hit on all night. PERFECT looking face. Polite but likely more a result of her being polish thus friendlier than Brit girls but wasn't able to get her attracted and she got in her cab that she'd been waiting for for a while. Home time

[Contagion]

Sub,

I like the journal man, it's a great read.

With the club stuff, I wouldn't worry to much about what you say. I have never once had a serious conversation in the club. Clubs are based more on emotion than anything that comes out of your mouth.

Just talk nonsense to them. The best part is, that you have to lean in close to her ears and she has to do the same for you in order for you to hear each other. That quickly creates comfort.

What I've always done, and take it with a grain of salt, is just go to clubs with friends or on pub crawls and have a good time. Don't go to get laid, go to have fun. You have to be serious about it though, you have to be 100% ok with not getting laid for the night.

Girls will pick up on your positive and care free attitude and that's going to be way more appealing to them than going in with the mission to get laid and coming off as needy. Talk with them naturally while you're there. Going up to the bar to get a drink, or when you happen to bump into people while you're dancing. As for the dancing itself, I've always found that less is more. Just rock a little back and forth, smile, joke around with your friends, have a good time, and let the good times roll my friend.

Again, I have to stress that doing some kind of organized and structural pickup routine probably works for some people. All I'm saying is that in my experience, when I go with friends and have a non-needy attitude and just say stupid shit to everybody because we're all drunk and who cares, that is always the best method for me.

Clubs are based on emotion, not on what you actually say, and if the girl likes you than it doesn't matter what comes out of your mouth as long as you have a great carefree attitude.

Take that as you will.

[UniversalMen]

(08-02-2018 01:15 AM)Contagion Wrote:  

What I've always done, and take it with a grain of salt, is just go to clubs with friends or on pub crawls and have a good time. Don't go to get laid, go to have fun.

Girls will pick up on your positive and care free attitude and that's going to be way more appealing to them than going in with the mission to get laid and coming off as needy.

All I'm saying is that in my experience, when I go with friends and have a non-needy attitude and just say stupid shit to everybody because we're all drunk and who cares, that is always the best method for me.

Clubs are based on emotion, not on what you actually say, and if the girl likes you than it doesn't matter what comes out of your mouth as long as you have a great carefree attitude.

Take that as you will.

Very good advice. Learn to be comfortable in your own skin and girls will naturally gravitate toward you. This is the mindset I've grown to have when going out, either solo or with friends.

Subterfuge,

Also, try being more relaxed. It's good that you're making the effort to talk to these girls but also try emulating your friend. From the way you talk about him, he seems very soft spoken and doesn't really show too much excitement. Try matching his energy.

Sometimes when I'm emulating the "relaxed/chill" guy I do very well with women. Don't do the "quiet" guy look that usually screams "creep". Try to imagine how a Don appears when he's in a club, "Chillin' like a villain" as they say. Look around yourself as though you own the place and everyone is there for your entertainment.

[subterfuge]

(08-02-2018 01:15 AM)Contagion Wrote:  

Sub,

I like the journal man, it's a great read.

With the club stuff, I wouldn't worry to much about what you say. I have never once had a serious conversation in the club. Clubs are based more on emotion than anything that comes out of your mouth.

Just talk nonsense to them. The best part is, that you have to lean in close to her ears and she has to do the same for you in order for you to hear each other. That quickly creates comfort.

What I've always done, and take it with a grain of salt, is just go to clubs with friends or on pub crawls and have a good time. Don't go to get laid, go to have fun. You have to be serious about it though, you have to be 100% ok with not getting laid for the night.

Girls will pick up on your positive and care free attitude and that's going to be way more appealing to them than going in with the mission to get laid and coming off as needy. Talk with them naturally while you're there. Going up to the bar to get a drink, or when you happen to bump into people while you're dancing. As for the dancing itself, I've always found that less is more. Just rock a little back and forth, smile, joke around with your friends, have a good time, and let the good times roll my friend.

Again, I have to stress that doing some kind of organized and structural pickup routine probably works for some people. All I'm saying is that in my experience, when I go with friends and have a non-needy attitude and just say stupid shit to everybody because we're all drunk and who cares, that is always the best method for me.

Clubs are based on emotion, not on what you actually say, and if the girl likes you than it doesn't matter what comes out of your mouth as long as you have a great carefree attitude.

Take that as you will.

Glad you've enjoyed the journal! It's had a few good moments although a hell of a lot of possibly unhealthy rejection lol. I'm gonna be in a mental asylum within a few years, i'm sure!

''Clubs are based more on emotion than anything that comes out of your mouth.
Just talk nonsense to them''

I realise this might defeat the purpose, but can you give some examples? I find that when I just turn my brain off and ramble nonsense it's usually just too unrelatable to the girl and maybe does more harm than good and she decides i'm weird lol! I guess a result of having a different sense of humour or whatever.

But yeah, that was the first time i've been to an ACTUAL club in like a decade and I doubt i'll be going back to one that soon so tactics specific to proper clubs mightn't be something to concern myself with too much, although there are obviously lots of overlap with bars and pubs and bars with little dancefloors etc

Even though you don't have a 'stack' or script or whatever, how does it typically looks when you open and transition with a girl you approach at a bar? Direct or indirect? Any specific words or tactics you use to help you 'push through' and 'hook'? (my biggest hurdle. I found it MUCH easier in the US but here I find it super super hard)

That club was frustrating in that it was just full of my idea of '9''s. It just seems like every 18 year old girl I see is close to perfection lol. I guess 'cos i'm getting old!

[subterfuge]

(08-02-2018 02:25 AM)UniversalMen Wrote:  

Very good advice. Learn to be comfortable in your own skin and girls will naturally gravitate toward you. This is the mindset I've grown to have when going out, either solo or with friends.

Subterfuge,

Also, try being more relaxed. It's good that you're making the effort to talk to these girls but also try emulating your friend. From the way you talk about him, he seems very soft spoken and doesn't really show too much excitement. Try matching his energy.

Sometimes when I'm emulating the "relaxed/chill" guy I do very well with women. Don't do the "quiet" guy look that usually screams "creep". Try to imagine how a Don appears when he's in a club, "Chillin' like a villain" as they say. Look around yourself as though you own the place and everyone is there for your entertainment.

cheers. Yes, being comfortable in your skin is surely important.

However, I really don't think there's anything to 'learn' from my wing on that occasion. I've seen him get attention whether he's basically sleeping at the bar or whether he's being loud lighting his farts on fire and anything in between. Basically he is VERY good looking to the point where girls will open him and flirt no matter what, so we're just not playing the same game at all unfortunately.

Tyler Durden used to talk about needing to spike emotions and be super fun etc if you want a shot at competing with the quite handsome dude and I see what he means lol

[UniversalMen]

(08-02-2018 12:56 PM)subterfuge Wrote:  

or whether he's being loud lighting his farts on fire and anything in between. Basically he is VERY good looking to the point where girls will open him and flirt no matter what, so we're just not playing the same game at all unfortunately.

Tyler Durden used to talk about needing to spike emotions and be super fun etc if you want a shot at competing with the quite handsome dude and I see what he means lol

Hahaha, definitely DO NOT emulate him by lighting your farts on fire. You'll have girls screaming for the hills!

I know the feeling of being around another guy that's obviously getting A LOT more attention from the ladies. When you say "Tyler Durden" are you talking about 'RSD Tyler'? If so, he's got some great videos on YouTube that will definitely help if you can match his kind of energy and approach.

That guy is on crack when he talks to girls but he gets it done. Haven't met him personally but he's got a strong following, and if you're able to emulate him, very well then you stand a good chance of getting a lot of poonani.

Keep your head up broda! Hope to read more of your progress and growth. FYI, do you workout? What's your style of fashion? These things can aid you in your conquests.

[Contagion]

Sub, I sent my reply to you by PM.

[subterfuge]

(08-02-2018 10:53 PM)UniversalMen Wrote:  

(08-02-2018 12:56 PM)subterfuge Wrote:  

or whether he's being loud lighting his farts on fire and anything in between. Basically he is VERY good looking to the point where girls will open him and flirt no matter what, so we're just not playing the same game at all unfortunately.

Tyler Durden used to talk about needing to spike emotions and be super fun etc if you want a shot at competing with the quite handsome dude and I see what he means lol

Hahaha, definitely DO NOT emulate him by lighting your farts on fire. You'll have girls screaming for the hills!

I know the feeling of being around another guy that's obviously getting A LOT more attention from the ladies. When you say "Tyler Durden" are you talking about 'RSD Tyler'? If so, he's got some great videos on YouTube that will definitely help if you can match his kind of energy and approach.

That guy is on crack when he talks to girls but he gets it done. Haven't met him personally but he's got a strong following, and if you're able to emulate him, very well then you stand a good chance of getting a lot of poonani.

Keep your head up broda! Hope to read more of your progress and growth. FYI, do you workout? What's your style of fashion? These things can aid you in your conquests.

Hey, yeah RSDTyler.

Yeah, being out with very good looking wings is always a head-screw, because I try to stay positive and like to try to believe the whole PUA thing about 'looks don't matter', 'girls don't care about looks', 'looks without game is nothing' etc, but when I go out with certain very handsome guys, them theories just get smoked!! He could just not say a word all night, and his looks will get him laid with hot girls most nights. Luckily I don't see him much so the redpill isn't constantly shoved down my throat!

Yes, I workout. I'm in fairly decent shape. I'm always trying to get more ripped, although I seem to have plateaued. Super tempted to inject, but worried about the effect it will have on what hair I have remaining on my head!

My fashion is just typical of what is fashionable in the UK amongst guys who get laid. Think programs like 'love Island' (you may not have heard of it) but fairly skinny jeans, nice chealsea boots, slim fit V neck or something, maybe a few little accessories. I also visit certain fashion peopless instagrams like Magic_fox who dresses in a fairly similar way to the love islanders to be honest.

Anyway, maybe i'll have a new FR soon.

cheers

[UniversalMen]

(08-03-2018 03:05 PM)subterfuge Wrote:  

Yeah, being out with very good looking wings is always a head-screw, because I try to stay positive and like to try to believe the whole PUA thing about 'looks don't matter', 'girls don't care about looks', 'looks without game is nothing' etc, but when I go out with certain very handsome guys, them theories just get smoked!! He could just not say a word all night, and his looks will get him laid with hot girls most nights. Luckily I don't see him much so the redpill isn't constantly shoved down my throat!

If it helps you with any consolation, I went to a local mall in my area this evening to get some numbers and I only walked away with one phone number after approaching 15 girls. I guess, what I'm trying to say is, switch up your routine. Don't just stick with night game. Do you Day Game at all?

I've never heard of 'love island' but it's good you're focused on keeping up with a style that suits you. Also, you mentioned something about your hair, are you balding?

[Skank_Hunt]

Your average hot girl's infinite options of "hot guys" in her phone all the time have spilt into real life cold approach in a major way. Not to mention obesity and other feminist crap meaning there are fewer hot girls and yet more men fiercely competing for them. This all means that the minimum initial criteria of women is a guy who looks hot, because looks are the first thing she sees. But within this same apparently clear reality women will pick an average looking man who makes her feel a certain way that perhaps a good looking guy cannot. However that's more within the "post-bang" context. Pre-bang, women are just confounded by so much choice that they have to filter ruthlessly right from the very start. Maybe the potential greatest love of her life approaches her, but he's not classically good looking, so he slips through the net. The girl just screwed herself by filtering so hard at first, but she is dealing with a Paradox of Choice of sorts, meaning she may often choose nobody (happening with attention whores or just girls getting constant messages from 8s and 9s in men thinking they can maybe do better and bag a professional soccer player or famous rapper). This especially happens online where the old "80/20" approximation is heading to "99/1" (Roosh mentioned this in a recent live stream). It is less so in real life, less so even in social circle settings where a "pecking order" may be established and the "cool guy" may not necessarily be the best looking, but it's still there, especially in environments where practical concerns are far fewer, so the UK has a welfare system which will support single mothers and essentially replace a provider, so ugly, average, hot girls aren't scared to go for the model looking guys. In less forgiving environments, women may either be highly logical and transactional (Ukraine) or not necessarily gold digging but "provider agreement seeking" (Poland). So looks matter a lot less in these places. Add to this the culture of shows like "Love Island", where "hot guy" stereotypes are broadcast and burned into these UK girls' brains, so they are also making certain "high status" associations with a guy who is hot because he "looks like X or Y" from [insert the most trendy popular vapid reality TV show here]. In Ukraine, if you're good looking and try to game girls but don't have enough money to take women on trips, eat at nice places, or just generally elevate her standard of living, you are useless. You leave with nothing or maybe occasionally you may be used by a horny 5 or 6 as a short-term foreign plaything. High status there are the guys in suits with money. In the UK apart from being famous good looks and hard alpha traits can be selected because the government will always support her if these model looking guys get her pregnant and leave.

The only thing that you could try is getting your other aesthetics to be much better than average. Not just your body, but maybe some tattoos, earrings. Not saying to peacock ridiculously like Mystery and co, but right now if you dress the same as other "cool guys", then if an almost identical guy in style is far better looking, girls will mostly choose the other guy because all other things are equal.

[ksbms]

(08-04-2018 07:14 AM)Skank_Hunt Wrote:  

Your average hot girl's infinite options of "hot guys" in her phone all the time have spilt into real life cold approach in a major way. Not to mention obesity and other feminist crap meaning there are fewer hot girls and yet more men fiercely competing for them. This all means that the minimum initial criteria of women is a guy who looks hot, because looks are the first thing she sees. But within this same apparently clear reality women will pick an average looking man who makes her feel a certain way that perhaps a good looking guy cannot. However that's more within the "post-bang" context. Pre-bang, women are just confounded by so much choice that they have to filter ruthlessly right from the very start. Maybe the potential greatest love of her life approaches her, but he's not classically good looking, so he slips through the net. The girl just screwed herself by filtering so hard at first, but she is dealing with a Paradox of Choice of sorts, meaning she may often choose nobody (happening with attention whores or just girls getting constant messages from 8s and 9s in men thinking they can maybe do better and bag a professional soccer player or famous rapper). This especially happens online where the old "80/20" approximation is heading to "99/1" (Roosh mentioned this in a recent live stream). It is less so in real life, less so even in social circle settings where a "pecking order" may be established and the "cool guy" may not necessarily be the best looking, but it's still there, especially in environments where practical concerns are far fewer, so the UK has a welfare system which will support single mothers and essentially replace a provider, so ugly, average, hot girls aren't scared to go for the model looking guys. In less forgiving environments, women may either be highly logical and transactional (Ukraine) or not necessarily gold digging but "provider agreement seeking" (Poland). So looks matter a lot less in these places. Add to this the culture of shows like "Love Island", where "hot guy" stereotypes are broadcast and burned into these UK girls' brains, so they are also making certain "high status" associations with a guy who is hot because he "looks like X or Y" from [insert the most trendy popular vapid reality TV show here]. In Ukraine, if you're good looking and try to game girls but don't have enough money to take women on trips, eat at nice places, or just generally elevate her standard of living, you are useless. You leave with nothing or maybe occasionally you may be used by a horny 5 or 6 as a short-term foreign plaything. High status there are the guys in suits with money. In the UK apart from being famous good looks and hard alpha traits can be selected because the government will always support her if these model looking guys get her pregnant and leave.

The only thing that you could try is getting your other aesthetics to be much better than average. Not just your body, but maybe some tattoos, earrings. Not saying to peacock ridiculously like Mystery and co, but right now if you dress the same as other "cool guys", then if an almost identical guy in style is far better looking, girls will mostly choose the other guy because all other things are equal.

Simplification, of course, but:

Tinder = Looks > General Value (aka men self-sorting mating value by visual appearance predominantly)

Social Circle = General Value > Looks (aka men self-sorting mating value based on male peers relative standing in a given social circle)

Daygame = Charisma > Looks (aka men self-sorting mating value based on charismatic impression in the absence of relative evaluation)

Nightgame = Looks > Charisma (aka men self-sorting mating value based on incidental impression in the absence of male peers evaluation)

[Skank_Hunt]

Simplification ksbms but correct and useful, especially for guys who have got in a bit too deep with, say, RSD. Because if you believe in RSD and watch their fully in-field "Hot Seat", you will notice how they emphasize the so-called charisma and downplay looks in some of the most aesthetically competitive environments in the world e.g. Miami.

Within SC and DG there is also a strong element of looks, particularly in the latter. In SC, you may be initially not seen as "the hot guy" but you have many chances to improve your standing and be seen as "the hot guy". In DG your initial impression counts for a hell of a lot, so looks are a big part of it as well. This is why Krauser for example has admitted he just doesn't get any love from cute young english girls as they just see him as physically unattractive not to mention the age gap. EE girls have a more rugged physical type first of all, are more accepting of physical deficits, and don't mind age gaps so much. But yeah, subterfuge is putting himself into a looks based environment stacked against him, only exceeded by online. So he definitely has huge balls and I believe his ratings of the girls he banged. Sometimes especially over such large numbers into the thousands, there are just completely random results. And I know some british girls can be very hot, before they become fat and unattractive through alcohol, junk food, smoking, being P&D etc. I don't know what to do to improve his conversion rates, however, in such shallow environments. That's just being realistic.

[subterfuge]

Last week I nearly banged a girl on a pebble beach who I met in a bar after i'd bee on a 14 hour drinking session!
I drank so much that I seemed to drink myself sober, so I didn't come across as drunk lol.
She was only 19. Pretty but not as thin as i'd like. 5.5-6/10
Had lots of attraction but I was out in a different town making the logistics a nightmare as she lived out of town aswell so my only shot was a bang on the beach, but it's not all sand beaches like in the US here! haha. Pebbles cockblocked me a bit and then her friends found us fondling on the beach and dragged her away as they were all getting a train back too a different town (opposite direction to my town)

Last night I went too a different town again and ended up again getting super close to the lay after inviting some girls back to my friends place, but I got a bit cock blocked by her friend who wanted to go home and get a cab
Sucked because this would have been a good one!

24 and looked a bit like Kylie Jenner! 7.5/10

I followed her into the bathroom after we began flirting heavily and used the isolation to get our 1st makeout and then she closed the door and took a piss whilst I watched lol. Tiny bathroom and people outside so couldn't do much.
Then we made out and I pulled her into my friends lounge and I was rubbing her pussy and stuff but just as it was getting good her friend kept coming in and was like ''I've called a cab for us''.
I tried to convince her to stay. No dice. Tried to get her to invite me with her but she lived with her parents and it wasn't gonna happen.
I think maybe i should have just escalated SUPER fast and tried to bang her in the lounge as fast as possible lol.
If only my friend was interested in her friend, i'm confident i'd have been able to get the lay.

I'm happy with the outcome although it was another set that I didn't open so it always feels like less of an achievement.

It's clear that my game is better than most of my friends. If i'm able to get past the open (or if my friend opens well and then I join in) I appear to be able to do well.

My friend opened the set whilst I was at the bar and I saw he'd been in set for a few mins so it must be going OK.

I walked over and said ''Are you guys being nice to my friend?'' They were like ''we're always nice'' and I said ''Yeah, I can tell....except you, maybe!'' (pointing at the hottest one). All giggled and within a few mins i'm flirting with the 2 hottest ones and my friend is kind of stalling with the 2 less attractive ones.

Made a slight fuck up as I basically hit on both of the hot ones (a blonde and the kylie jenner dark haired one) so I think I made it a bit harder for myself with Kylie Jenner as I looked like a player (she called me one actually) and was like ''I saw you hitting on my friend. You just want to get laid and you don't care who with as now you're hitting on me!'' but I held frame and made it playful and I said ''Shhhhh.....(whilst cuddling her and putting my finger on her lips)...you're confused and you're aroused. You don't know what you're saying'' and she cracked up laughing. She tried to protest again and I said ''This is all just a dream anyway. It doesn't matter'' and she laughed again and I gave her a little kiss on the lips on the emotional spike.

Qualified her a bit with the usual bollox about me liking her personality (I always say this although it was actually true in this case. She was amusing) and then invited her back which is when the aforementioned fondling took place. She even stuck a finger in my butt!! That was a new one for me!! Really wish I was clever enough to try to move her into a bedroom with a lock on the door! I'm an idiot.

Other points of note were some nasty rejections and some very stifled interactions before I felt 'loose'.
I suffer from bad 'premature EJECTualtion' where I exit a set straight away if I she isn't showing tonnes of interest which is a mistake. Some sort of ego protection mechanism.
Happened with my first set where I made a comment about sobering up as i'd been waiting for my drink for so long too a 2-set who were also at the bar. They laughed.
I asked one what she was drinking. She told me and I said ''You can tell a lot about a girl by her drink''.
She said ''Oh yeah? What do I do then??''
At this point I just felt zero 'game' in my bones and guessed her job. She said ''nope. I'm a hairdresser''.
Now, this is where for some reason my mind just went blank.
I guess I was trying to think of something ''good' to say. Couldn't. Then I thought about asking a regular question about her being a hairdresser but decided this would bore her and then found myself saying nothing at all and then they both just turned away and talked among themselves lol. I just needed to fukking talk!!! Anything would have been better than nothing! grrr....My bad

Also a few instant rejections more or less on the dancefloor but that's almost become a guarantee so no big deal! Sometimes feel like i'm talking a different language when I open girls on the dancefloor with the way they look at me sometimes and then don't reply and just look away lol

However, will concentrate on the positives. I appear to be able to create a certain amount of attraction IF i'm not feeling too stifled (like with the hairdresser which was my 1st set of the night) OR if maybe my friend opens a set. I just suck as opening i guess. But I find it super interesting how most of my friends (such as the guy who appears to be able to open sets well) don't seem to be able to lead the set anywhere. They can't make it 'fun/flirty' etc which I guess is what 'game' largely is

Been trying to find a wing or 2 recently. I want to see if my approach anxiety is any better when I'm with someone I don't really 'know' as it's something i've noticed before. (When I approached the beach girl last week, i had some stranger I met a few mins before as my wing and I felt much less AA. I ended up helping him get laid with a hot girl in fact! Not that he needed much help. He was a very good looking dude so she was instantly into him)

But yeah, no luck yet finding someone.

[UniversalMen]

(08-19-2018 08:42 AM)subterfuge Wrote:  

However, will concentrate on the positives. I appear to be able to create a certain amount of attraction IF i'm not feeling too stifled (like with the hairdresser which was my 1st set of the night) OR if maybe my friend opens a set. I just suck as opening i guess. But I find it super interesting how most of my friends (such as the guy who appears to be able to open sets well) don't seem to be able to lead the set anywhere. They can't make it 'fun/flirty' etc which I guess is what 'game' largely is

You're doing better and that's good! Your determination to continue trying new openers is good. The way I open girls at a nightclub has always been a hit or miss. I never really found my own knack at opening them since the music is always too loud and there are just too many people that I bump into (cause everyone is less than a foot away).

Granted, I was opening with girls here in the US, and nightclubs in the areas I frequented were always packed with people grinding on one another and it's really hard to open a girl when she's on the dance floor (unless she was drunk, I didn't get anywhere). Outside the nightclubs, I find it much easier to open girls (i.e., while they are waiting in line to get into the club/walking past the club). Try that and you may find more success outside/near nightclubs where there are girls.

On more than one occasion if I was with friends, I would leave my group to explore near where we were at (mostly because I got bored with our scene) and go to a pizza place or other fast food restaurant/quiet bar and pick up girls waiting in line to get food or beverages. I found a lot of success this way but keep in mind many of the girls at these other locations, may likely be, quite sober.

You're doing great though! I think in less than a few years, at this rate, many of us on here will be taking your advice on how to approach girls!

[Oak]

Excellent journal. Have really enjoyed reading through this.

Love your positive energy.

Well done on the Czech 8!

[Sender]

Agreed. This has been an incredibly useful thread that I've followed in depth. Particularly good for UK players like myself as, I believe, it does accurately represent the nuances of gaming here. I can completely relate to the scenes Subterfuge describes.

OP seems to be winning in the tough environment of UK nightgame.

@Subterfuge, if you're ever looking for a wing in or near London feel free to contact me. Would be great to hang out.

[subterfuge]

(09-02-2018 07:37 PM)Oak Wrote:  

Excellent journal. Have really enjoyed reading through this.

Love your positive energy.

Well done on the Czech 8!

ta. Glad you've enjoyed it!
Can't say i've been 'positive' the whole time, to be honest! At times i've felt like jumping off a bridge

Yeah, I remember Tee Czech girl! Feels like a while ago now!

Although the true star of the journal was the 18 year old Brit girl a few bangs prior to her. She really was hot! I get the feeling she will prove to be the apotheosis of this journal and my sex-life. Was lucky, but I made my own luck too an extent I guess! (And I filmed the sex in parts since I was very aware that this was a lottery win, so I have that memory forever!!)

This year has been much less eventful. I'm wondering why that is. The only noticeable thing (and probably the most important) that I can think of is that I think I tend to make less approaches on nights out this year.

Rather than learning to get desensitized to rejection, I find that sometimes the memory of prior rough rejections stops me from approaching certain hot girls! Last year I was braver. Like a curious dog. This year i've been like a vietnaam vet whose getting flashbacks!

I'd say I typically make like 6 approaches on a night out at the moment, whereas maybe it was more like 15 last year. Need to amp it up again if i'm to get laid with any kind of regularity at all!

cheers

(09-03-2018 05:56 AM)Sender Wrote:  

Agreed. This has been an incredibly useful thread that I've followed in depth. Particularly good for UK players like myself as, I believe, it does accurately represent the nuances of gaming here. I can completely relate to the scenes Subterfuge describes.

OP seems to be winning in the tough environment of UK nightgame.

@Subterfuge, if you're ever looking for a wing in or near London feel free to contact me. Would be great to hang out.

I love to hear from fellow Brits. They consistently seem to remind me that i'm not crazy, and that there really are some nuances and cultural differences that effect cold approach. I like to read seddit as every week there's a Brit on there getting rough rejections! It's like the American posters there can't fathom introducing yourself too a girl, and then her looking at you with utter confusion and just walking away lol. And when someone writes such an FR, they are told ''You must have had AWFUL body language or something'' without realising that it's actually an odd way too open someone here (not to mention that most UK girls seem less approachable in general compared to US folk)

One good thing is that over the last year or so, my friends have started approaching (I guess I gave them the courage to do so!) and some of them are just cool, natural dudes, and they also get lots of these kind of harsh rejections which always kind of makes me feel good! haha. One of them had one this Saturday when he opened a 2-set and was like ''Hey guys, how's your night going??'' and they just looked at him and then at each other. He carried on ''I thought i'd come over and say 'hi' quickly, what are your names?'' and again they just look at him and then look away. He's like ''Errr....It's ok. I'm just being friendly. This isn't a robbery!! '' and one of them just nods her head in a sarcastic way. He's like ''Do you speak English?!!'' and she's like 'yeah' and then she literally turns her back towards him and then her friend grabs her and they walk away. It's like he didn't do anything wrong, but if he had have posted that FR, people would assume he he must have been giving off the worst vibd in the world when in reality, like lots of UK girls, they just don't want to talk to some random dude!

Yeah, I wouldn't say i'm 'winning' at all tbh! Last year was a success of sorts I suppose, but this year has given me almost nothing unfortunately. I guess from an optimistic point of view, other than the couple of lays, there have been a handful of occasions where I was so damn close that it almost counts as a lay in my head lol. Things like a few weeks back where i was rubbing that chicks pussy at my friends house after pulling her from the barand then her friend (who had just been rejected by my handsome mate) barged in and insisted they got a cab back now. If only he'd have not rejected her, that' was like a guaranteed lay! D'oh!

I'm pretty broke so don't tend to go to London and stuff much at all and tend to just stay in my town, but if you are ever down this way, we could deffo go out and pester some girls together.

[subterfuge]

Nothing exciting, but thought i'd update with a few approaches/nights out

Thur:

Was out with a few guys i’ve never met, One of whom is a big time slayer.

Tall, muscular, bearded tattoo artist who everyone in my town seemed to know. He was banging his high school teacher when he was 15 and has a huge list of gorgeous girlfriend – Every one of his stories involved hot girls approaching him on night out. I was trying to almost study his mannerisms and ‘learn’ from him as even though he’s good looking, he’s not ‘model material’ like my other slayer friend who has 9’s throwing themselves at him every time he leaves the house, so I felt like maybe there was more to actually ‘learn’ from him compared to my friend.

First approach was on a really hot ‘no girl’

Gorgeous. 18 or so. She was with a friend sitting down and both of them were facing away from everyone else in the bar and were often engrossed in convo. I know from experience that this is a 100% ‘go away’ set, but I found the balls too approach her (It was obvious every other guy in there wanted too by the way they were all looking at her and clearly talking about her, but didn’t have the guts. I wouldn’t have usually either, but for some reason was feeling ballsy)

I opened her (her friend was now at the bar) and I made a comment about her checking her stocks as an opener (has worked before) as she was texting, but she just blinked at me and forced a fake smile and nodded her head and looked away from me.

I went into some sort of cold read which lead too a short story with a few easy threads in there for her to comment on but she just nodded her head.

I’M certain that if she wasn’t sitting down at this point, she’d have just walked away as they often do.

I asked her name and made some statements and asked some more questions and she was doing exactly what all ‘no girls’ do and trying really hard to not engage me. Made some assumptions about her but she carried on basically ignoring me lol.

I Was dying too eject at this point as social pressure was building up but I carried on speaking. Tried to run some little routine about the rings on her fingers but she didn’t go for it at all and i felt like I was digging an even deeper hole here lol.

Then She was like ”Anyway, my friend will be back soon. I’ve got a boyfriend and i’ll be honest – you’re not my type. It ain’t gonna happen”.

I tried to remain playful and teased her about rejecting me for being too ugly (like Max RSD sometime does) but she’s still not engaging.

Then she just starts texting and looking away from me and it this point I decide to throw in the towel and accept that I really wasn’t her type and there was no way of getting this particular girl. On to the next!

I think that no amount of 'GAME' in the world could have gotten me this girl.

It's clear that you can only 'game' girls who are initially attracted to you physically as well as being single and available.

Not feeling too down about that rejection, I opened another hot girl with a comment on her dress and told her she looked like Beetlejuice with the black and white stripes.

She laughed. I asked her name and then made a cold read about her doing yoga or something. Just a bullshit ‘canned cold read’, really, but I got lucky and she started talking about her yoga and stuff. I grabbed her friend and told her she looked like Tara Reid and then we all have a convo about our celeb ‘lookalikes’ and stuff (I got Patrick Swayze, which I’ll take as i’m and ugly mofo! lol). Introduced the tattoo artists to the girls and ‘bigged him up’ (I notice lots of people always put their friends down to make themselves look alpha and stuff, but I liked doing the opposite). I DVH’d for him and told them about how he travels the world tattooing people and is semi-famous and stuff.

Then moved them all too a different bar but I was maybe slightly drunk at this point and I found myself jumping from girl to girl too much and didn’t do a good job of making it clear which one I was going for as I was in a good mood and was flirting pretty heavily with all of them and also forget who was who/what their names were!

Branched off with the one I wanted who my other friends thought was the hottest one in the group.

Just some comfort talk and asked her if she could cook and done a little role play thing about us being on a date which I used to do some very heavy kino under the ‘umbrella’ of a role play.

Her friends were getting food and now we were outside waiting for them and she was cuddling me, and there was a moment where I really think I should have kissed her, but I was a bit concerned that I hadn't made her chase enough yet and didn't want to be the one 'chasing' her too obviously and so decided not to.

I’m pretty sure this may have backfired. Might have made her think i was a pussy or something. Went to see her friends and she grabbed my arm as we walked.

They invited me and tattoo dude to their place for a drink. Me and girl in back of cab and I was rubbing her legs and being touchy feely. Again, should have kissed her here? But also thought maybe she wouldn't want to be kissed in front of all her friends and it might make her feel slutty?

Back to their place and similar. We all sat in the lounge together drinking. Just light touching and rubbing her when she said she was cold, but at this point she had gone very quiet and the energy seemed to drop so much. She just seemed tired. I needed to be way more proactive

I wish I had have done something like just asked her to show me around her house where i could have made a move on her in private, but I often forget this sort of basic shit in the moment and at one point whilst I was chatting with her friend, she disappeared to bed!

If I could play it over again, i'd deffo had went for the kiss which I feel would have changed the direction of the interaction there after in a positive way.

Half being a pussy, and half 'over-gaming' on my part, I think

First girl was just impossible and unless I had a handsome man face transplant, she was never gonna go for it lol

Overall: I know I messed up, although it wasn't quite as straight forward as it could have been.

I've gone home with girls from bars before (who were by themselves) and basically always got laid, but this was going back with her, AND her friends, AND that tattoo'd dude i'd met that night, and it became a kind of mini gathering in the lounge where we were all drinking, and it didn't seem obvious for me how to escalate. I didn't want to start trying to make out with her in front of all of her friends. The lounge was tiny (small place in the UK) and we were all basically rubbing shoulders and so it wasn't easy for me to be covert in form of flirting or anything, if that makes sense. And she wasn't really giving me any obvious hints that she was even especially into me! It was like I DID have a big IOI in terms of her being seemingly very comfortable with me touching her and stuff, but I just didn't feel that was enough for me to tell her to take me upstairs, basically.

I guess I should have 1/ went for the kiss whilst we were still in the bar or something and 2/ Been like ''give me a little tour of your house'' and then obviously made the move once we were alone in her bedroom



Fri:

Banged a girl I cold approached ages ago last night.
Was zero game needed, luckily. She was already into me from the initial approach ages ago to the point that it was clear the second I said 'hi' to her tonight (after she texted me to meet her) that it was 'on'.

Such an interesting night. I've basically NEVER been out with a group of girls before and it was interesting to experience. (i've always had tonnes of friends, but not that many friends who are girls, really)

I met 'my' girl who was with 4 other girls, 3 of whom she had more or less just met, and they didn't seem to like 'my girl'.

I got to experience what it's like to have groups of guys around you looking all shifty and nervous to approach. Was so funny seeing it from this new perspective as I was basically dancing with all of the girls.

They were either getting shot down/ignored (i've been there, brother!!!) or sometimes the girls would seem to be 'into it', although I soon learnt that this was an act to get free drinks from them. I even overheard one be like ''Eww....have you seen him? I'm not gonna go with him. I'll let him buy me drinks, though!''.

Another funny thing happened. One of the girls who didn't like the girl I was with was only 17! Massive tits. Pretty face. A little bit of 'baby fat' but undeniably sexy, and she was getting lots of looks from all the guys!

So i'm outside with her (17 year old) as my girl and the others are in the bathroom, so I strike up a conversation with her and get talking about her tattoos. I'm being slightly flirty, just with my eye contact and stuff, and touching her skin. Can't help myself. Then she tells me I should get a sleeve done. I tell her I haven't got the muscles for it, and then this 17 year old says ''I dunno. You look in good shape'' and then grabs my arm and runs her hand down my chest all the way to my belt

My girl comes back. She's paranoid by nature, and the the girls kind of eyecode each other. She then whispers to me about how she think this girl is into me.

Soon after the same 17 year old asks me to put my arm around her (my girl is in the bathroom again). I'm not sure if she's only flirting with me to upset my girl, though (it seems that none of the girls like her, and they are leaving her out of drinks rounds, ignoring her lots etc). I kind of felt sorry for her. If I didn't have a heart, i'd have just went for the 17 year old to see if she's really into me or just playing games. (She looked like https://scstylecaster.files.wordpress.co...-cover.jpg)

The 17 year old ended up stumbling out of the bar claiming that her drink had been spiked by some random dude which started a fight between loads of randome dudes and a glass was thrown and we left the club! Turned out she was fine like 5 minutes later and was simply tipsy! Probably one of her first times drinking! She started world war 3 and was oblivious

I made one cheeky approach on a hard 'no girl' whilst I was on my way back from the bathrrom by myself. More or less just ignored me and didn't 'engage' at all unfortunately. Tried the 'calling her out' on being shy/grumpy in a jokey way and tried a few other 'techniques' to get her to 'hook' but no joy and she just walked away. Not to worry.

I experienced a little pre-selection possibly. The girls weren't my type, but a few girls grabbed me and tried to get me to grind with them, and I think it was mainly a result of having been the only guy with the 5 girls and I was kind of grinding with all of them at different times.

Only other thing of 'note' from last night that I can remember is that some girls love black guys! 2 of the girls I was with have black guy fetishes, and they were literally jumping on random black guys and kissing them who didn't need to 'game' them at all. I guess it's similar to being good looking. They are massively pre-selected and the attraction is super high the instant they lay eyes on them. One of the girls got fingerbanged by one of them on teh dancefloor and she freaked out and shouted at him and walked off lol.

I ended up taking the girl I was with home and banging her. Weird night.

[UniversalMen]

(10-13-2018 05:31 AM)subterfuge Wrote:  

Only other thing of 'note' from last night that I can remember is that some girls love black guys! 2 of the girls I was with have black guy fetishes, and they were literally jumping on random black guys and kissing them who didn't need to 'game' them at all. I guess it's similar to being good looking. They are massively pre-selected and the attraction is super high the instant they lay eyes on them. One of the girls got fingerbanged by one of them on teh dancefloor and she freaked out and shouted at him and walked off lol.

I know exactly what you mean by pre-selection. I've experienced this myself and if you're in a place where so many girls are giving you IOIs it makes approaching these girls 10x easier since you have the "home advantage", so to speak. It's an awesome feeling.

(10-13-2018 05:31 AM)subterfuge Wrote:  

I ended up taking the girl I was with home and banging her. Weird night.

Sub, I think you experienced something a lot of guys will never get to live. You're being sociable and it's starting to really show when you approach these girls. I can tell you're building up a great defense against rejection with the fact that you continue to plow through the conversation until the girl gives you a definite, "I'm not interested," is a great sign you've made leaps and bounds amongst the ladies.

I don't know what the laws are like in the UK with girls of a certain age but I would have gotten that 17-year-old's number, and hit her up later for a good time. She wanted you, broda!

The fact that your homies are also starting to follow your initiative means your having a wide area of effect within your circle, and I think it can only bring you more enjoyable experiences.

Also, if you ever get the opportunity, try coming to the US to field some of your game. Judging from what you and other UK members have said about dealing with women in the UK, you might have an awesome time in the US, girls here love guys from other countries because of their accents and sexually charged approaches.