[LeeEnfield303]

(08-14-2016 06:18 PM)Kona Wrote:  

They don't get the opportunity to "stand down" like the cops do.

Really? Someone chains EMTs to the ambulance? They can't "quit" either? My brother was an EMT for 15 years....in that time, he quit more than a couple of 'bad gigs' as he called them.

I'm no blanket cop apologist - I've personally been on the short end of a couple of dirty cops' stick, and it sucked. But to shrug this all off as 'if the cops just didn't act incorrectly, there'd be no riots' is ridiculous.

I don't know how any cop in this country, good or bad, straps on the belt in the morning right now - I wouldn't, not in this witchhunt climate. Those shitbags in the inner city want to kill each other off, I wish them all good hunting....fuck, I'll airdrop them the ammo. Escape from New York should be a documentary.

[Peregrine]

[greekgod]

I think the cops in chicago have an unwinnable job. No matter what they do, they are fucked. Police too hard, black community goes crazy and the fury of the nations media comes down on them. Police too little and the whole city goes to shit and so many lose out because of an ongoing drug war.

Yes, I know, there are shitty cops and when the drug trade is as big as it is in chicago, they're on the take. That is a minuscule number tho.

You can tell their morale is way down. They don't look many people in the eye lately, just go about their business. I lived in Lincoln Park for two years, arguably the safest neighborhood in chicago. and only saw cops look at ease once. And it was in a dunkin donuts when two units met for an on shift coffee break. These guys take their profession serious and most believe its an honorable job, for them to be so hamstrung, its shit.

Whats that song? CHANGE, CHANGE, CHANGE...

..is acoming.

[Leonard D Neubache]

The ugly truth is that these guys could quit policing or take up policing in a less shitty state/city. You can't play the martyr while "finding some shade" as SecondCityCop puts it. Pick one, because you can't have both.

It's true that policing the ghettos is a politically impossible task. Police are labelled as racist for doing their job. They are labelled as racist for letting the place rot. Nobody rats on the guy that shot a kid yesterday, and the cops get the blame for not catching him when he does it again next week.

A somewhat radical solution would be this. Productive regions hire private security firms staffed by former police officers. They fund it by engaging in tax strikes at a politically opportune moment, or simply suck up the costs regardless. The private security firms would be unburdened by ridiculous SOPs, political correctness and time consuming bureaucracy requirements. Keep the firms small and numerous to avoid the whole project being bankrupted by a single bad shoot, becoming too easily protested by SJWs, or what-have-you.

Tell the state to leave a skeletal presence of real cops to pick up and charge detained criminals.

Leave the affirmative action hires in the police force to police the ghettos. Private firms will be able to have recruitment standards that weed out the losers and keep the cream of the crop.

I could go into more detail but you get the idea.

[iknowexactly]

(08-14-2016 07:03 PM)Captain Gh Wrote:  

(08-14-2016 06:50 PM)Kona Wrote:  

(08-14-2016 06:38 PM)Captain Gh Wrote:  

Would you still keep doing your dangerous job if you kept on being shitted on over and over? That would be the equivalent of wifing up a fat tatood up chick you got a kid with because... it's the right thing to do. F**k that, if someone doesn't appreciate your work, then bounce...that goes for cops too. How you can compare what cops are going through to EMT workers, nurses and doctors in this one is beyond me!

I would not keep doing my dangerousjob at all... I WOULD QUIT!

There's no one making these guys stay cops. Quit. Get somebody that gives a shit to do their jobs.

Don't just stay a cop and do a shitty job. That helps no one.

Aloha!

You would quit that 60-80k a year gig... over people who disrespect & don't care about you...to do what?

I spent years in Hawaii in Honolulu, years around cops on the mainland, and years hanging on for a pension ( pensions are a big part of how government hangs on to employees) .

There's a lot that's hard to understand for outsiders who see a simple solution where there simply isn't one. If you think government jobs are so easy for the pay, go ahead and get one; but don't pretend to be someone who knows what it's like inside.

- First, government changes slowly, so processes are always outdated and sometimes idiotic. It's easy to say "Just change it' but government generally operates within real often actually enforced legal rules so it can't be fast, it's like a huge oil tanker on a certain course.

- Sometimes the course gets changed for the worse, like the current anti-male and in some places anti-white/affirmative action agendas. Try getting a college professor job when 60% of professors are white males and you're a smart white male best for the job-- and there's a minority applicant 80% as good as you. It won't happen.
I'm still in favor of some affirmative action if it's best in the long run for the society although I've suffered from it myself, because I'm smart enough to win even if weaker players are given bonuses. If a group has been left out for a long time, I can stomach losing a few shekels so they feel they are being included if they are basically qualified.

It's really important that the vast majority of people who are well-meaning and reasonable are able to get along with each other.

- Sometimes the course gets changed too fast, voila French Revolution. Bloodbaths are generally not an acceptable cost for an improvement in efficiency.

- If you are a cop and have been on the job for 11 years and need 9 more to make the pension you've been planning and sweating for ; you've seen enough BLM stuff or SDS stuff that you know in two years it will be gone as the public has the attention span of a Chihuahua. There will always be vicious criminals in a free society, there will always be naive people overly sympathetic with vicious assholes, and there will always be a need for cops to protect the latter from the former.

Cops were offered a deal where if you worked 20 dealing with the absolute most brutal, parasitic, low-IQ scum in the city you wouldn't get shat on financially, like every middle-aged middle manager in the private sector when things are "rightsized", and you intend to hold up your end of the bargain.

If the city is losing 5 million in legal and crowd control for every perp that gets shot and is sweating you to reduce use of force, you're going to understandably back off on shooting perps even though it breaks your heart to see another monster run off into the night to rob, rape and disrupt again.

Dealing with scum is an unwinnable war, and cops could never be paid enough, somewhat like teachers are misvalued. Instead, the financiers and lawyers get the money because their IQ is 30-40 points higher.

Unless you are deluded that you are a big genius revolutionary, smarter than all the political minds of the last 3500 years, keep in mind Winston Churchill's dictum to the effect that "Democracy is the absolute worst form of government, except everything else."

[Leonard D Neubache]

^ Pensions.

That poisoned chalice that utterly corrupts the simple trade of services for money.

We're starting to see a shift in the tide now that the <10-year cops are realising that those pensions are never going to be funded by the time they hand in their badge.

Frankly the cops on pensions at this very second ought to be looking for part time work, because from where I'm sitting it looks like just about every US public sector retirement fund is not just flat broke, they're actually drowning in red ink.

[Samseau]

Quote:

If the city is losing 5 million in legal and crowd control for every perp that gets shot

This is the problem right here. It always starts at the top, especially our court systems and their ridiculous ideas of wrongful deaths and systemic racism.

Doesn't matter if the cop kills a bad Black man. Proving the cop's innocence in court is a major headache and costs millions, so they just settle for a million dollar payout.

Of course appeasement solves nothing, and just encourages more Blacks to turn to crime in hopes of a white guilt payday.

[The Black Knight]

(08-15-2016 12:51 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

This is the problem right here. It always starts at the top

Right on.

This is a failure of leadership with the mayor and the top attorney general/district attorney.

We could clean up Chicago and most major shit parts of cities in a few years if aggressive enforcement AND harsh sentencing was put in place for shitheads. Rudy Giuliani cleaned up NYC by doing just that.

Instead, you get weak politically correct libtards who want to give criminals more rights than citizens, make cops walk on thin ice, strip gun rights, and give scumbags multiple undeserved chances to be rehabilitated. These are the same libtards who think you can "just shoot someone in the leg" instead of killing that person when they threaten you with deadly force.

Point blank, most libtards are world class retards when it comes to safety and security. Do the aforementioned like NYC and crime will go down tremendously.

And if you REALLY want to nip shit in the bud: Develop robust mental health services to lock up people who are not criminals but are not fit to have kids. Oh, you are shooting up heroin while pregnant? Fuck you... no children for you; your children bearing rights are revoked. It might be a slippery slope but I think people need to embrace the concept that having children should be a privilege, not a right. There are some world class fucked up people out in the US reproducing at a good clip and as a society, we shouldn't allow it. We can either deal with it now or pay for it later.

We need to draw the line in the sand somewhere.

[Laner]

(08-15-2016 01:38 AM)The Black Knight Wrote:  

(08-15-2016 12:51 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

This is the problem right here. It always starts at the top

Right on.

This is a failure of leadership with the mayor and the top attorney general/district attorney.

We could clean up Chicago and most major shit parts of cities in a few years if aggressive enforcement AND harsh sentencing was put in place for shitheads. Rudy Giuliani cleaned up NYC by doing just that.

Instead, you get weak politically correct libtards who want to give criminals more rights than citizens, make cops walk on thin ice, strip gun rights, and give scumbags multiple undeserved chances to be rehabilitated. These are the same libtards who think you can "just shoot someone in the leg" instead of killing that person when they threaten you with deadly force.

Point blank, most libtards are world class retards when it comes to safety and security. Do the aforementioned like NYC and crime will go down tremendously.

And if you REALLY want to nip shit in the bud: Develop robust mental health services to lock up people who are not criminals but are not fit to have kids. Oh, you are shooting up heroin while pregnant? Fuck you... no children for you; your children bearing rights are revoked. It might be a slippery slope but I think people need to embrace the concept that having children should be a privilege, not a right. There are some world class fucked up people out in the US reproducing at a good clip and as a society, we shouldn't allow it. We can either deal with it now or pay for it later.

We need to draw the line in the sand somewhere.

Add to this the cost to the government to support these fucktards when they do have kids- kids who are usually born with development issues too. New Liberals in Canada just raised the child benefits to $600 per kid, per month.

In less than 4 years, an addict can be collecting $2400 for kids, plus another $900 welfare. Subsidized housing + free food means more money in her pocket each month than most skilled carpenters.

Where is the incentive anymore? This altruistic game of bullshit virtue is nearly up.

[The Beast1]

(08-14-2016 03:38 PM)nomadbrah Wrote:  

4 replies, 1800 views, this forum has taken off, must be a ton of lurkers. I'd be interested to see Roosh analytics for the forum, I suspect the traffic is way up.

Don't forget all of our new threads get posted directly to Twitter.

Back on topic: zero tolerance works. Treat the animals like animals and start shooting when the jungle gets out of control and things will calm down.

[deuce]

@Kona,

Your post sounds like the "Man up!" bullshit we hear from spinsters and cucks.

[Leonard D Neubache]

It always comes back to welfare.

Drop it to soup kitchens and a cot in an old stadium. You could fit half a ghetto in a very small place and police it quite easily. Motherf'ers will look for work soon enough.

[The Black Knight]

(08-15-2016 01:58 AM)Laner Wrote:  

(08-15-2016 01:38 AM)The Black Knight Wrote:  

(08-15-2016 12:51 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

This is the problem right here. It always starts at the top

Right on.

This is a failure of leadership with the mayor and the top attorney general/district attorney.

We could clean up Chicago and most major shit parts of cities in a few years if aggressive enforcement AND harsh sentencing was put in place for shitheads. Rudy Giuliani cleaned up NYC by doing just that.

Instead, you get weak politically correct libtards who want to give criminals more rights than citizens, make cops walk on thin ice, strip gun rights, and give scumbags multiple undeserved chances to be rehabilitated. These are the same libtards who think you can "just shoot someone in the leg" instead of killing that person when they threaten you with deadly force.

Point blank, most libtards are world class retards when it comes to safety and security. Do the aforementioned like NYC and crime will go down tremendously.

And if you REALLY want to nip shit in the bud: Develop robust mental health services to lock up people who are not criminals but are not fit to have kids. Oh, you are shooting up heroin while pregnant? Fuck you... no children for you; your children bearing rights are revoked. It might be a slippery slope but I think people need to embrace the concept that having children should be a privilege, not a right. There are some world class fucked up people out in the US reproducing at a good clip and as a society, we shouldn't allow it. We can either deal with it now or pay for it later.

We need to draw the line in the sand somewhere.

Add to this the cost to the government to support these fucktards when they do have kids- kids who are usually born with development issues too. New Liberals in Canada just raised the child benefits to $600 per kid, per month.

In less than 4 years, an addict can be collecting $2400 for kids, plus another $900 welfare. Subsidized housing + free food means more money in her pocket each month than most skilled carpenters.

Where is the incentive anymore? This altruistic game of bullshit virtue is nearly up.

In addition to welfare recipients, I've suggested before that daughters of welfare receipts be given mandatory birth control right at puberty to prevent multi-generational welfare families and other issues. The government already forces children to get vaccines to prevent parasites so it's not a real stretch to force teenagers on birth control to prevent more government leeches and trash from being born.

I haven't looked at the data but I think it's a safe bet to say that most inner city scumbags are probably the products of teenage/young single mothers who were born into welfare dependent families.

I really wish a politician out there would touch on this issue but I can only imagine the onslaught from every angle that person would receive if they proposed the aforementioned concept.

[Cobra]

It's funny when people tell me about someone super successful who was raised by a single mom. I proceed to tell them about how a significant amount of criminals are also from single moms.

[Leonard D Neubache]

^
^ Government policies are designed to destroy western nations, so they will accept no solutions for the problems they've deliberately created.

[redpillage]

Brilliant post I found dated about a year ago. I'm copying the whole text here because stuff like this is often pulled down:

Quote:

I Don’t Care About Black People

In light of both recent events and long-simmering racial issues in this country, I’ve come to the conclusion that it’s time for me to state my sincere and forthright position on race relations, specifically those involving the black population. So here it is: I don’t care about black people.

In our age of Totalism, this needs some clarification. Totalism means that there is no middle – one must either love something with all of one’s heart and be willing to work tirelessly for its benefit, or (clearly) one must hate it and wish to see it destroyed with maximum force. By no means can there be any in-between. This paradigm is a tool of control – one common in history, but particularly loved by Puritans, which means that it is now primarily in the hands of the puritanical left. Few want to be seen as so heartless or vicious as to hate something – or, commonly, some group of people – enough to wish destruction upon it. And so, accepting the Totalist frame, most people feel compelled to insist that they do love it, and would bear any burden for its betterment. They dare not take the risk of being painted as a villain (which these days usually means someone who doesn’t believe in the sacred dogma of equality). But there are some of us who know better, and who reject the frame given us. And that is what I mean to do here.

I don’t care about black people, which means by definition that I don’t hate them. In order to hate something or someone, you must care about them deeply. Hate is a serious, long-term emotional investment, and one must actually care very much about the object of one’s hatred in order to make it. As is often said, hate is not the opposite of love; indifference is. And I have come to be very indifferent about the fortunes of blacks.

I don’t care about black people. Their problems are not my problem. Their enemies are not my enemy. Their concerns are not my concern. I feel no need to understand them or their ways, and I don’t care whether or not they understand me or my ways. I wish them well – in fact, I know not a single white person, no matter how outwardly racist, who does not wish that blacks were doing better than they are, if for no other reason than that we must all live with the effects of their failures. I hope that the issues that seem to ceaselessly dog their community all get solved somehow. I have no desire to do them and theirs injury, except as punishment for injury done by them against me and mine. But I don’t care about them – there is nothing more I want from them other than to simply leave me alone, and in exchange, I will gladly leave them alone as well.

Lest one think that this is all motivated by sheer meanness and lack of charity, there is another reason for my lack of enthusiasm for the cause of helping black people. The truth is that I don’t know how to help them, and I don’t know anyone else who does. For at least fifty years (more like a hundred and fifty, really) whites have been trying to find a way to solve the problems of black people. We must now be realistic and admit that all of these attempts have failed miserably. Fifty years into the War on Poverty, drive around a black ghetto (if you dare) and note what you see. It is indeed certain to look like there has been a war there, but it is equally certain to not look like any victory over poverty has been won. What you’ll find there is the result of whites having tried everything they could possibly think of to uplift blacks, and of it all having either not worked at all or having actually made things worse. As evidenced by the wars in Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan, Americans are notoriously slow to understand that their plan hasn’t worked and to accept defeat, but at some point, reality asserts itself in a way that is undeniable.

So here is the undeniable reality: when it comes to whites trying to solve the problems of black people, none of our plans have worked, and we’re pretty much out of ideas. I, certainly, have nothing new to add on the issue – believe me, if I did, I would. I have no secret, sadistic desire to see blacks suffer, and I, too, must live with the results of their failures. But like everybody else, I don’t have any more solutions to offer.

And I am not alone in my sense of resignation on this topic. Some are angrier than I am, and frequent, horrific reports of interracial crime – statistically almost all black on white – give them reason to be. Among many others, what has been termed “negro fatigue” has set in – an exasperated feeling of just being sick and tired of constantly hearing about blacks and their seemingly endless problems. Even on the left, which instinctively senses that the excuses and rationalizations for the failures of the black community (most especially its disproportionate rates of criminality) are wearing thin, the effects of this can be seen. One aspect of the establishment left’s recent push for gay rights is that they are quietly but visibly dumping blacks as their most favored oppressed minority in favor of gays. This is largely a simple matter of political practicality. When nice white ladies of the sort who often vote for Democrats turn on the TV and see large groups of feral blacks burning down Baltimore, it makes an impression. Doubtless so too have the nice white ladies’ own previous encounters with lower-class blacks. Say what you will about gays, but they are, as a group, not greatly given to torching senior centers or stealing purses. It makes their cause an easier sell.

In addition, it seems obvious that the left is as out of ideas about how to help blacks as everyone else. The election of Barack Obama was supposed to make all of this better, but it plainly has not, and the only other idea that the left has been able to come up with is trying more of what has already spent half a century not working. There is no reason to believe that any of it will suddenly start working now, and the need to defend the absurd notion that it might is, even with the mainstream right being as feckless and cowardly as it is, a serious political liability. Best to simply move on to the next big thing without any further comment.

As for my own solutions to the state of race relations – which are bad, and getting worse – I have precious few. Voluntary separation based on freedom of association would seem a wise and humane way to handle things. But grown adults deciding for themselves who they want to be around is prohibited by federal law, and is harshly punished where discovered. Ethnonationalism, in which each race lives in its own territory, under its own system, and makes its own laws, which it is itself responsible for enforcing, also seems to be a decent and viable solution. But this will not happen without the breakup of the United States and/or a civil war, which, while inevitable, is not on the immediate horizon.

So it seems that neither I, nor anyone else, have any workable answers to offer. It is time then, I believe, to invoke the spirit of the Serenity Prayer, and to learn to accept that which I cannot change. Again, I wish blacks all the success in the world; I hope they can find a way to do better and that a solution to their problems makes itself apparent. But other than in a vague Christian sense of wanting the best for my fellow man, I can no longer bring myself to care about them.

Thus, to black people, my message is simply this: Good luck, but don’t call me for help.


P.S. There is a long list of other people who I similarly don’t care about, including but not limited to: homosexuals, transgenders, Jews, Latinos, and all manner of exotic peoples in faraway countries. I wish them well, I’ll never go out of my way to harm them without provocation, I hope they get right with the Lord, and I’ll be happy to say a prayer for their souls while I’m in church. But I’ve had my fill of hearing about their problems, and I’m done caring. Whatever plagues you, work it out yourselves. Leave me alone.

[Hotwheels]

(08-14-2016 06:18 PM)Kona Wrote:  

(08-14-2016 04:25 PM)Travesty Wrote:  

(08-14-2016 04:14 PM)Kona Wrote:  

84 shot, but only nineteen killed?

The ems, fire, and emergency room people must still be working.

I'm going the other way than you guys and saying cops that "stand down" over bullshit are lazy. They took an oath, just like the other people who are still doing their jobs. Imagine if the er doctor did the same thing?

And I love the "my buddy couldn't get a job because he's white" bullshit. You go ahead and keep thinking that.

Police are doing things incorrectly, that's the problem.

Aloha!

You're smoking too much ganja out on the island Kona.

My EMT trainer was a South side of Chicago paramedic for years. He had 25 calls a shift often.

He became a depressed alcoholic, gained weight, and lost his wife and pretty much his family due to what he had to experience.

There is a line where it isn't worth saving the pack of wolves.

You know not what you speak.

These aren't black ops mercenaries making bank that are often in predator mode instead of being prey to ambushes. Paramedics often get paid $16 / hour with shit benefits. Cops and firemen get paid better, it isn't worth guaranteed PTSD and over vigilance syndrome that destroys all your relationships.

I don't think that what I'm smoking is relevant.

I just wrote that if 84 people were shot, yet only 19 died, the ems, fire, and emergency medical people are doing a fantastic job.

They don't get the opportunity to "stand down" like the cops do.

It is complete bullshit for cops to back off and do nothing. They are making it way harder for the paramedics and whatnot by doing that.

I just hate the all around holier than thou attitude policing has taken up.

Aloha!

Accuracy suffers when one holds a handgun like this;

[Hotwheels]

(08-14-2016 10:54 PM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

The ugly truth is that these guys could quit policing or take up policing in a less shitty state/city. You can't play the martyr while "finding some shade" as SecondCityCop puts it. Pick one, because you can't have both.

It's true that policing the ghettos is a politically impossible task. Police are labelled as racist for doing their job. They are labelled as racist for letting the place rot. Nobody rats on the guy that shot a kid yesterday, and the cops get the blame for not catching him when he does it again next week.

A somewhat radical solution would be this. Productive regions hire private security firms staffed by former police officers. They fund it by engaging in tax strikes at a politically opportune moment, or simply suck up the costs regardless. The private security firms would be unburdened by ridiculous SOPs, political correctness and time consuming bureaucracy requirements. Keep the firms small and numerous to avoid the whole project being bankrupted by a single bad shoot, becoming too easily protested by SJWs, or what-have-you.

Tell the state to leave a skeletal presence of real cops to pick up and charge detained criminals.

Leave the affirmative action hires in the police force to police the ghettos. Private firms will be able to have recruitment standards that weed out the losers and keep the cream of the crop.

I could go into more detail but you get the idea.

Palmer Woods and Indian Village are two Detroit neighborhoods I'm familiar with that have their own private security, so this has been happening is some areas.

[Constitution45]

(08-14-2016 04:26 PM)Kona Wrote:  

(08-14-2016 04:18 PM)LeeEnfield303 Wrote:  

who brought that motherfucker to the ER in the first place? And that a street cop gets paid what an ER doc, or ANY doc, gets paid?

SMH

Fire or ems people brought them to the er.

They also do not make as much as er docs.

Aloha!

Police officers are usually the first responders to shootings or violent crimes, often giving first aid until EMS or fire service arrive. Blaming cops for high crime rates and murders etc is like blaming doctors and nurses for the amount of car crash victims they receive. If you are having a murder rate like the one that Chicago has, then its a sign that there are some serious deep social or cultural issues underplay there. Even poverty can't be used as the only excuse, as you have regions in Eastern Europe, Asia etc that are poor yet crime is very low. Poor policing along doesn't cover the situation in that is happening in Chicago.

[Scorpio Rising]

(08-14-2016 04:14 PM)Kona Wrote:  

84 shot, but only nineteen killed?

The ems, fire, and emergency room people must still be working.

I'm going the other way than you guys and saying cops that "stand down" over bullshit are lazy. They took an oath, just like the other people who are still doing their jobs. Imagine if the er doctor did the same thing?

And I love the "my buddy couldn't get a job because he's white" bullshit. You go ahead and keep thinking that.

Police are doing things incorrectly, that's the problem.

Aloha!

84 shot, but only nineteen killed?

Their aim has never been known to be good.

And I love the "my buddy couldn't get a job because he's white" bullshit. You go ahead and keep thinking that.
I know of a lot of white guys who didn't get the job since the 1970's including yours truly. I'm not just talking about the cops. By the way I worked for a metropolitan police dept in the late 80's and 90's as a civilian when they were under a strict AA program. What a disaster. I also worked for a firm that had to sell of our division because AA hiring nearly sunk the place. Additionally standards have been greatly reduced to accomodate minorities test scores and females physical abilities in the hiring process of police departments. The CPD is 30% female.

Police are doing things incorrectly, that's the problem.
Yes there are a number of cases where the current militarization of the cops has cops has caused problems. This has resulted in a number of dead people of all races. However I can tell you that Chicago Police and those of other big cities are standing down out of fear for their lives and their careers. Is everybody happy now?

[polar]

(08-15-2016 07:43 AM)Hotwheels Wrote:  

Accuracy suffers when one holds a handgun like this;

That's because you don't have these, brah:



Recommended by 4 out of 5 gang bangers!

[Samseau]

my bad wrong thread