[Lux Interior]

I have been working in The Canadian Oil Sands for the past 4 years as a Carpenter and Scaffolder.
I have stayed with the one company for the past three years as a scaffolder and have been promoted to foreman but as anyone who has worked here knows without real paperwork ie.degree real sustainable career advancement in this industry is difficult.

I am strongly considering doing a 2 year construction management degree (online) as it is somewhat of a follow on from my carpentry apprenticeship.
I am lucky enough to be working a steady 7 days on/off schedule which I think would allow me plenty of time to study.
This will be a massive commitment of time and energy and i want to make sure it is not wasted.

Any advice is welcomed.

[Carmichael Reid]

(08-06-2016 06:22 PM)Lux Interior Wrote:  

I have been working in The Canadian Oil Sands for the past 4 years as a Carpenter and Scaffolder.
I have stayed with the one company for the past three years as a scaffolder and have been promoted to foreman but as anyone who has worked here knows without real paperwork ie.degree real sustainable career advancement in this industry is difficult.

I am strongly considering doing a 2 year construction management degree (online) as it is somewhat of a follow on from my carpentry apprenticeship.
I am lucky enough to be working a steady 7 days on/off schedule which I think would allow me plenty of time to study.
This will be a massive commitment of time and energy and i want to make sure it is not wasted.

Any advice is welcomed.

Hey, I'm guessing you live in Alberta? I do too. Fortunately I am no the other side of the fence. I'm in tech entrepreneurship. Before I go on entire rant about the 'has-been' construction/oil and gas industry. I run into alot of workers like yourself.

First, re-evaluate what you REALLY want out of life. Please don't say comfort and security, as you know this does not exist. But what would REALLY make you happy.

I think self-assessment of oneself really helped me getting out of commodity businesses. If you want true independence, freedom, etc. I would really lean in the direction of ANY industry that allows itself to MAKE its own price instead of the market dictate the price such as oil and try to stay clear of any business that is dependent on Price-Takers.

Creativity is the number one skill in any industry. Can you think of any ways how to improve the market as a whole? Make your boss look better? Draw up a pragmatically sound improvement to operations, delivery, revenue, etc?

A job will always be a job, but the more you think like an entrepreneur you will start to feel better about any situation.

I could go on, but I really don't know where you're at. I would love to throw around ideas with any of you, because I do feel for you guys.

[Lux Interior]

(08-06-2016 06:34 PM)Carmichael Reid Wrote:  

(08-06-2016 06:22 PM)Lux Interior Wrote:  

I have been working in The Canadian Oil Sands for the past 4 years as a Carpenter and Scaffolder.
I have stayed with the one company for the past three years as a scaffolder and have been promoted to foreman but as anyone who has worked here knows without real paperwork ie.degree real sustainable career advancement in this industry is difficult.

I am strongly considering doing a 2 year construction management degree (online) as it is somewhat of a follow on from my carpentry apprenticeship.
I am lucky enough to be working a steady 7 days on/off schedule which I think would allow me plenty of time to study.
This will be a massive commitment of time and energy and i want to make sure it is not wasted.

Any advice is welcomed.

Hey, I'm guessing you live in Alberta? I do too. Fortunately I am no the other side of the fence. I'm in tech entrepreneurship. Before I go on entire rant about the 'has-been' construction/oil and gas industry. I run into alot of workers like yourself.

First, re-evaluate what you REALLY want out of life. Please don't say comfort and security, as you know this does not exist. But what would REALLY make you happy.

I think self-assessment of oneself really helped me getting out of commodity businesses. If you want true independence, freedom, etc. I would really lean in the direction of ANY industry that allows itself to MAKE its own price instead of the market dictate the price such as oil and try to stay clear of any business that is dependent on Price-Takers.

Creativity is the number one skill in any industry. Can you think of any ways how to improve the market as a whole? Make your boss look better? Draw up a pragmatically sound improvement to operations, delivery, revenue, etc?

A job will always be a job, but the more you think like an entrepreneur you will start to feel better about any situation.

I could go on, but I really don't know where you're at. I would love to throw around ideas with any of you, because I do feel for you guys.

Thanks for the reply Carmichael.

I actually like the industry I'm in and am not so much looking for a whole new career as such just some tips on the best way to move to the next level.

Although the Oil industry is currently weak, the construction Industry will never be "has-been". Fortunately I am not confined to just the Oil Industry.
There are some incredible opportunities available globally in the construction/energy/mining industries. With a trade background, relevant experience and a good degree you can have a great job anywhere in the world.
I have the first two and am now looking for specific advice on furthering my education.

[scotian]

First of all congratulations to progressing in your chosen trade, becoming a journeyman and a foreman, that in itself is something to be very proud of and I"m sure that you've made some pretty good money along the way. Its sounds like you've reached a point in your career that most of us trades guy get to at some point, where you want to get off the tools and into the office. This is a great idea and I think that post-secondary education is the way to go, as opposed to the old fashion way of bag licking your way up haha.

Honestly I'm not too familiar with the online construction management courses but being Alberta based, I can highly recommend taking courses from either SAIT (I went there) or NAIT as they are highly regarded in the oil sands. Also, you may want to walk into your main office in Fort Mac or Edmonton and talk to some of the management there to see what they have to say about this, who knows, they may even pay for the course!

I've worked for far too many managers who were unqualified and only were put in their positions because they spent years on the tools and got drunk with the right people. Totally unprofessional dick heads who lacked leadership skills and discipline, fortunately many of them are now gone due to the oil downturn, hopefully when things pick back up the companies will be hiring more educated people as supervisors and managers.

[Spectrumwalker]

Hey man. Apprentice here. Though you are way ahead of me, and I'm not in Canada and don't know what conditions are like there, so take it with a grain of salt.

I've always been weary of online programs. I've taken a couple online classes in the past (for something else) and they were a total joke. And for the construction industry, you just can't beat one on one time with instructors and gain that practical human experience. With hopefully maybe some worksite opportunities you could add to your CV. Here in Australia there are certificate and diploma programs more geared towards the supervisory and management side that are classroom based. Maybe there's something similar in Canada at college campuses?

Like Scotian said, maybe you could work with your employer to figure something out and maybe they could pay you to go to class if you tell of your desire to continue on with them. You've showed your loyalty so far maybe they can help you out in return. Wouldn't hurt to ask. I'm guessing an on campus degree would probably be a bit more expensive both financially and timewise, but I'd look at it as an investment.

If you're looking to strike out on your own, perhaps it doesn't matter. You know your strengths and weaknesses. But If I had my own company and was presented with two candidates of equal background but one earned a degree online and the other in a classroom, I know who I'd be inclined to take on. If I had to go in for surgery and the Dr. tells me he got his diploma from The University of Phoenix, I'd go ahead and finalize my will.

Good luck man.

[Lux Interior]

(08-08-2016 06:12 PM)scotian Wrote:  

First of all congratulations to progressing in your chosen trade, becoming a journeyman and a foreman, that in itself is something to be very proud of and I"m sure that you've made some pretty good money along the way. Its sounds like you've reached a point in your career that most of us trades guy get to at some point, where you want to get off the tools and into the office. This is a great idea and I think that post-secondary education is the way to go, as opposed to the old fashion way of bag licking your way up haha.

Honestly I'm not too familiar with the online construction management courses but being Alberta based, I can highly recommend taking courses from either SAIT (I went there) or NAIT as they are highly regarded in the oil sands. Also, you may want to walk into your main office in Fort Mac or Edmonton and talk to some of the management there to see what they have to say about this, who knows, they may even pay for the course!

I've worked for far too many managers who were unqualified and only were put in their positions because they spent years on the tools and got drunk with the right people. Totally unprofessional dick heads who lacked leadership skills and discipline, fortunately many of them are now gone due to the oil downturn, hopefully when things pick back up the companies will be hiring more educated people as supervisors and managers.

Yea you know the score! Bag-lickers usually get found out eventually, but it's incredible how badly managed a lot of these contractors in the oilsands are.
It's not unusual for the dumbest guy on a crew to be promoted to foreman because he is the least likely to take his superiors job. I have seen some crazy shit going on up here. Scaffolding has a particularly bad rep for it as it's not fully regulated yet.

I find with the trades there are only a handful of places you can make big money consistently around the globe....Canada, Australia..actually that's pretty much it. Where as good ,experiences construction managers and supervisors are in demand in almost every country. Getting a degree is really a no-brainer for me at this point.

[Lux Interior]

(08-10-2016 02:47 AM)Spectrumwalker Wrote:  

Hey man. Apprentice here. Though you are way ahead of me, and I'm not in Canada and don't know what conditions are like there, so take it with a grain of salt.

I've always been weary of online programs. I've taken a couple online classes in the past (for something else) and they were a total joke. And for the construction industry, you just can't beat one on one time with instructors and gain that practical human experience. With hopefully maybe some worksite opportunities you could add to your CV. Here in Australia there are certificate and diploma programs more geared towards the supervisory and management side that are classroom based. Maybe there's something similar in Canada at college campuses?

Like Scotian said, maybe you could work with your employer to figure something out and maybe they could pay you to go to class if you tell of your desire to continue on with them. You've showed your loyalty so far maybe they can help you out in return. Wouldn't hurt to ask. I'm guessing an on campus degree would probably be a bit more expensive both financially and timewise, but I'd look at it as an investment.

If you're looking to strike out on your own, perhaps it doesn't matter. You know your strengths and weaknesses. But If I had my own company and was presented with two candidates of equal background but one earned a degree online and the other in a classroom, I know who I'd be inclined to take on. If I had to go in for surgery and the Dr. tells me he got his diploma from The University of Phoenix, I'd go ahead and finalize my will.

Good luck man.

I'm glad you brought this up, I definitely need to do more research.
I'd really like to speak to people who've actually done an online degree.

In saying that I don't think Construction management is going to be easy by any means but I also don't think it's going to be rocket science.
It should be within my capabilities.
Apparently with the course I'm looking at, you have good access to the lecturers through email/skype etc.
You are also put in touch with other students taking the programme.

With my current work schedule of 7 days/on 7 days off I think it should give me plenty of time to study.

On your final point, I think if I saw that a guy did an online part-time degree programme and passed with the same marks as a guy in a classroom (full time) while he was still working a job....gaining extra experience, I would be more inclined to take him on.

[Begriff]

I started in the trades as an union electrician in New York City, I was young and had a real hard time getting my ass up at 430 am to get to work at 7 so I quit before I got my A-card ... big mistake.

dabbled in some BS jobs moved out to California, the only way I could find gainful employment, you guessed it electrician. non-union trades work kinda sucks, really busy or really slow and practically every thing in between, really unstable.

found steady work for a custom home builder I started doing framing, finish, electric on my own etc... would be on one home at a time for months and months...... was nice.

I wanted to move up and get out of the dust etc... applied to all the biggest general contractors, I was offered a position as an assistant PM, estimating, bidding, scheduling/ coordinating jobs.

men with good trades skills but more importantly COMMUNICATION skills are fucking valuable even more so if you are clean cut, if you have trades skills and communication skills with no face tattoos you can find yourself at the front of the line.

If your looking to get into construction management, be tooled up, know how to use Microsoft office, present yourself as some one who cares youll Trump any degree, you learn that shit through mistakes and sticking it out.

construction management is hard, and some times I wish I was just working with my tools, but fighting/negotiating/getting the job/ figuring shit out makes the day fly and is quite fun at times.

master your craft, learn excel, try a little, build shit.