[Graft]

I have to express a controversial opinion that has been on my mind for a long time. Let's discuss flaking and how to handle it.

I always shame a girl when she flakes. I carved out time in my day, possibly me weekend, and she disrespects myself and my time. I'll say something like a neg:

"Oh cool you're playing the whole ghost thing? You're not (insert x) here."

The idea is not to get laid, but to stop the epidemic of flaking. For me personally, flaking cannot continue happening at this rate. I am at at least 50%, probably 75%. Even if you're at 25%, that's still a lot of time wasted. These are girls from a diverse range of relationship status, from random tinder girl to short term FWB.

From what I've read most guys on here think it's a shitty and weak move. This is what enables them to keep going it-they don't have any negative repercussions when they do it.

Another thing you can do is send the most sexual remark you can think of and try to hit a home run. If you don't get laid or nudes you'll probably offend her. Either is acceptable.

[Delta]

If you really want to make her feel bad about having flaked, I think you can come up with something more cutting than "Oh cool you're playing the whole ghost thing? You're not (insert x) here."

The exercise is pretty pointless in my opinion, but if you must do it, write something short and authoritative, and don't sound like you've lost your cool. Examples:

"thanks for wasting my time"
"thats extremely rude by the way"
"hah, i can see why you're single"
"way to act like an adult"

[FireStarter]

Unless every man simultaneously decides to shame them, nothing is going to change. That is just not going to happen. Even if every member of this forum called them out on it, the effect would be minuscule.

It is disrespectful to flake, and I understand the urge to call them out, but it isn't going to improve your life in any way. Rather than trying to change society, think about how you can improve your individual odds.

[HOD]

(07-20-2016 01:03 AM)Delta Wrote:  

If you really want to make her feel bad about having flaked, I think you can come up with something more cutting than "Oh cool you're playing the whole ghost thing? You're not (insert x) here."

The exercise is pretty pointless in my opinion, but if you must do it, write something short and authoritative, and don't sound like you've lost your cool. Examples:

"thanks for wasting my time"
"thats extremely rude by the way"
"hah, i can see why you're single"
"way to act like an adult"

I never understood, why dudes never call out girls for rude behavior. This is the primary reason why nice or good men get walk over. There never willing to walk away from a bad situation.

There's retards out there advocating, just put her in the rotation and ping her later, that just leads to the thirst and boosting her ego.

Dudes got to man up and next these girls and call them out on there rude behaviors. Yes it is true, you will probably lose her.

But you also become less thirsty and become more of a man.

Real Men confront problems and call out bull shit.

That doesn't mean you should be rude, like her.

Just call her out on her rude behavior, no different if your friend flakes on you. You have to say something.

Thats call sitting boundaries.

[JayJuanGee]

(07-20-2016 01:13 AM)FireStarter Wrote:  

Unless every man simultaneously decides to shame them, nothing is going to change. That is just not going to happen. Even if every member of this forum called them out on it, the effect would be minuscule.

It is disrespectful to flake, and I understand the urge to call them out, but it isn't going to improve your life in any way. Rather than trying to change society, think about how you can improve your individual odds.

I believe that it is not too big of a waste of time to say something to the girl, but like FireStarter says here, a more healthy goal in this area of life and in any area of life is to work on yourself and to work on how you deal with situations rather than making any kind of stress-laden effort to change the world.

So more importantly is to figure out if the flaking is excused in any way or do you next her, and that will vary from circumstance to circumstance, and surely sometimes, it may be a last ditch effort at salvaging the situation, and other times, it may be a decision to just move on.

[Noir]

It really depends on what kind of relationship you have with them.

I also flake due to a busy schedule and you learn through time when it is genuine and not.

If she flakes on me, it's usually due to her being busy or a lack of attraction.

It is disrespectful sure, but I don't see it warranting any shaming, it is a reactive thing to do.

I would rather just move on with my life instead of wasting more time texting my emotions back and forth.

Of course, this depends on each individual and how much expectation you have from each encounter.

I don't expect it but I understand it was part of women's nature especially early 20s. They have a lot of attention and take it for granted.

It's their loss really, don't waste your time with disrespectful people.

If she is busy she will propose an alternative.

I still stick to not responding to their flakes moving them to the bottom of my list.

I ain't here to teach them manners, change their nature or stop any epidemics.

I am playa not a sociologist or therapist.

@HOD, they aren't my friends hence they don't deserve me looking out for them.

If my friend flakes, they get more passes by virtue of being my friend and my respect. They legitimately have a good reason.

I had flakey friends too and it turned out, they had more 'important' things to do.

Guess what?

So do I.

If in doubt or you are itching to respond, maintain frame.

Heartiste used to use 'gay'.

I say 'shame' or even better, don't respond at all.

[blck]

Dude you seem to care a little too much about women being women and it make you look butthurt, that's their way of telling you they're not interested or not in the mood.
Just flip the script and stack girls for your typical "dates" day:
If one flake you got other options and that send a better message to those who flaked on you.

It's maybe why you have to face a 50/75% of "flake pandemy"

(07-20-2016 12:41 AM)Graft Wrote:  

I always shame a girl when she flakes. I carved out time in my day, possibly me weekend, and she disrespects myself and my time. I'll say something like a neg:

"Oh cool you're playing the whole ghost thing? You're not (insert x) here."

The idea is not to get laid, but to stop the epidemic of flaking. For me personally, flaking cannot continue happening at this rate. I am at at least 50%, probably 75%. Even if you're at 25%, that's still a lot of time wasted. These are girls from a diverse range of relationship status, from random tinder girl to short term FWB.

From what I've read most guys on here think it's a shitty and weak move. [...]

^^This is funny

[Rawmeo]

Concentrate on making yourself a better man rather than focusing on that.

But... That does not mean you shouldn't call her out on her shitty behavior. Whenever a girl disrespects you or does something stupid (happens often), call her out on it. Tell her that you do not accept that and that is her final warning.

[godzilla]

Move on and find another girl. I'm assuming these are girls you've never met, so calling her out will accomplish absolutely nothing. If this is a girl youre dating, different story, then you need handle that.

[WalkingMan]

Roissy - "shaming a girl for her flakes accomplishes nothing", I believe is what he said. He tested it and wrote about his results. Best to find a new girl.

[Dalaran1991]

The thing with flake shaming is that, you dont have any leverage with the girl and you are basically no one to her, so your power over her are zero. And if she flakes that already means she sees you as worthless of her time.

Calling her out in such situation accomplishes absolutely nothing. She will just feel slightly annoyed "oh another rude loser", like you feel when you walk away from a rude beggar/homeless on the street.

Do it if it helps you sleep at night, but unless all men start doing it (heh) nothing will change.

Now if you've been seeing the girl for a while and she pulls this crap, that's a whole other discussion.

[WestIndianArchie]

Dalaran doing the Lord's work in here.

Gio has spoken on this many times, i can't seem to find his posts. But open door policy is what player's have.

The real issue with flaking is that the man being flaked on has no leverage, but also no value. She's not flaking on that guy of her (wet) dreams. So if a player is getting persistent/consistent flakes, he needs to see how much impact he's been making on the chick.

If you run a simple opener, get a number, and only text logistics - why would she want to hang with Mr. Strictly Business?

Because of your "alpha" presence, your r/K selection? Your SMV? Your lifestyle is on point?

A 19 year old hottie who's text, Instagram, Facebook, Twitter feed, and tinder profiles are getting blown up by better looking and more interesting guys?

Taking collective action.ha.. Square Time Matters!

WIA

[HOD]

(07-20-2016 01:36 AM)Noir Wrote:  

It really depends on what kind of relationship you have with them.



@HOD, they aren't my friends hence they don't deserve me looking out for them.

If my friend flakes, they get more passes by virtue of being my friend and my respect. They legitimately have a good reason.

I had flakey friends too and it turned out, they had more 'important' things to do.

Guess what?

So do I.

If in doubt or you are itching to respond, maintain frame.

Heartiste used to use 'gay'.

I say 'shame' or even better, don't respond at all.

I agree with what your saying,

But this is a beginner question, obviously for advance players you next. But for beginners its a different experience, that can be leverage to advance there skills.

What I'm advocating is sitting boundaries for beginners, most men are so use to saying yes to girls (due to thirst), and complying with there wishes, in order to not rock the boat. I'm not talking about your average player. I'm talking about the majority of men who have never said no to women.

I'm talking about how nice/good guys are too nice, it really helps to practice saying no or calling out or sitting some boundaries in the beginning, I know the girls who flake are strangers, but for guys who have little experience, effeminate or soft, they need to get some practice in on calling girls out.

In the US its hard to get some reps in on calling girls out. Most men are too nice and have strong empathy for women.

Especially if your a nice guy, we all know in the US, nice guys are heavily train by feminism to be nice and compliant.

Yes, alot of guys on the forum have massive experience with saying no to a women and dating them.

You have to keep in mind and context that most beginners don't get enough reps in,in terms of checking a girls boundaries. So they never get the chance to feel what its like to say no to a women.

Those experience can only be gain by dating alot of women.

Saying no to a women is a very powerfull tool. I'm not talking about shaming, I'm talking about saying no to a women.

You have to remember its 2016, and feminism is in full effect.

[XPQ22]

(07-20-2016 12:41 AM)Graft Wrote:  

The idea is not to get laid

[Noir]

(07-20-2016 09:07 AM)HOD Wrote:  

(07-20-2016 01:36 AM)Noir Wrote:  

It really depends on what kind of relationship you have with them.



@HOD, they aren't my friends hence they don't deserve me looking out for them.

If my friend flakes, they get more passes by virtue of being my friend and my respect. They legitimately have a good reason.

I had flakey friends too and it turned out, they had more 'important' things to do.

Guess what?

So do I.

If in doubt or you are itching to respond, maintain frame.

Heartiste used to use 'gay'.

I say 'shame' or even better, don't respond at all.

I agree with what your saying, but what I'm advocating is sitting boundaries for good men, most men are use to saying yes to girls, and complaying with there wishes, in order to not rock the boat. I'm not talking about your average player. I'm talking about the majority of men who have never said no to women.

I'm talking about how nice/good guys are too nice, it really helps to practice saying no or calling out or sitting some boundaries in the beginning, I know the girls who flake are strangers, but for guys who have little experience, effeminate or soft, they need to get some practice in on calling girls out.

In the US its hard to get some reps in on calling girls out. Most men are too nice and have strong empathy for women.

Especially if your a nice guy, we all know in the US, nice guys are heavily train by feminism to be nice and compliant.

Yes, alot of guys on the forum have massive experience with saying no to a women and dating them.

You have to keep in mind and context that most beginners don't get enough reps in,in terms of checking a girls boundaries. So they never get the chance to feel what its like to say no to a women.

Those experience can only be gain by dating alot of women.

Saying no to a women is a very powerfull tool. I'm not talking about shaming, I'm talking about saying no to a women.

You have to remember its 2016, and feminism is in full effect.

Fuck feminism.

You missed the forest for the trees.

Let's summarize the thread.

If she flakes on you first time;

- shes not into you
- you have no leverage
- shes not worth your time
- she is disrespectful

I would rather avoid a bullet and hope she flakes in that case than waste my time.

Her loss.

My example is for a few interactions later.

It matters less and less as time goes by but more and more every time she does it.

The answer to your conundrum is simple. Don't be a nice guy. Don't expect shit from bishes. You are the motherfucking king kong final boss of pussy slaying but fucking communicate that through one of the many avenues clearly outlined on this forum.

Beginners will:

- read to much into it
- root their self-esteem in the flake
- want to get revenge and react
- hate bitches and expect it after a while

Think of it as a litmus test of your attractiveness.

WIA touches on this (this thread probably inspired him) with Average Guy Game.

You run weak game, you are just another option.

You run strong game and signal status, you are a priority.

Set boundaries with those you respect.

For any chick, don't take her seriously until she commits or starts investing. Until then, shes just another hoe on your potential radar.

These are hard truths accept it and develop yourself to be immune to such bullshit.

It's just bullshit at the end of the day.

Don't blame feminism for the nature of women. They've always been like this.

If you have to, have a wank and then see how little you give a shit when she flakes.

[C-Note]

I got flaked on once by a girl from a dating site. Later that day, after she didn't show up, I accidentally texted her "Thank you" which was supposed to be for a different girl who had just sent me her picture. A couple of days later when I looked at the site, the girl who had flaked on me had deleted her profile. Coincidence?

[WestIndianArchie]

Yes, coincidence.

You can't make these chicks feels guilty. You can't change their behavior.

She's going to flake, be late, etc - until you're fucking her AND putting in the time to modify her behavior. If she changes, it's conditioned on the premise that you keep giving her what she needs emotionally.

A better strategy is to not modify her behavior, but modify your own.

WIA

[XPQ22]

(07-20-2016 12:41 AM)Graft Wrote:  

The idea is not to get laid

(07-20-2016 01:20 AM)HOD Wrote:  

I never understood, why dudes never call out girls for rude behavior. This is the primary reason why nice or good men get walk over. There never willing to walk away from a bad situation.

Because it doesn't accomplish anything. Do you honestly believe that 20-something Tinder chick who flaked on you hasn't been "called out" for it before? Do you believe that you're the only guy who has ever been TUFF ENOUGH to send her a pissy text after she cancels last minute?

Quote:

"thanks for wasting my time"
"thats extremely rude by the way"
"hah, i can see why you're single"
"way to act like an adult"

Flakey young chicks receive butthurt texts like this from guys they flake on all damn day. This isn't just idle speculation - I've seen the evidence.

And they're never going to learn the "lesson" you think they're going to from it. If they flake and you hit them with that they're going to go "Eeeeech, what a weirdo. I sure made the right call on that one!"

Quote:

There's retards out there advocating, just put her in the rotation and ping her later, that just leads to the thirst and boosting her ego.

Do you want to get laid, or do you want to be "right"? I know which one I'd pick.

Quote:

Dudes got to man up and next these girls and call them out on there rude behaviors. Yes it is true, you will probably lose her.

But you also become less thirsty and become more of a man.

You become less thirsty by having sex with attractive women. Which becomes more of a problem if you let the silly games they like to play from time to time throw you for a loop.

Quote:

Real Men confront problems and call out bull shit.

"Real Men" know what battles are worth fighting. Did you know that women have been flaking for at least two thousand years? If you read some of the risque graffiti that the businessmen and sailors wrote in bars and whorehouses of Pompeii, you'll find some that sound very very much like the long-forgotten young Roman man in question is complaining about something: that his favorite barmaid/slave girl didn't show up.

I don't believe there's any "epidemic." Technology has simply made more readily apparent what was always business as usual.

This "call them out" tactic feels way to much like the SJW tactic of "name and shame." Trying to get the world to operate the way you want it to.

[eradicator]

The point is to get laid. If a girl flakes, delete her number and start talking to other girls. I look at it this way, she is doing me a favor because I will not be spending another minute talking to or thinking about her and can concentrate on other girls who are at least potentially more receptive.

[Dalaran1991]

(07-20-2016 09:33 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

A better strategy is to not modify her behavior, but modify your own.

WIA

That, or screen for girls whose behaviors already please you.

I think OP started off the wrong foot, the wrong mindset. You seek to change the behavior of a girl who think so low of you as to flake on you?

The best way to avoid flake is to make yourself immune to it: bring a book, set up dates when you are going out anyway, set up date where you can easily bounce to another venue. If she doesn't show go do what you were about to do anyway.

Giovonny said it best: a girl flaking on you is doing you a favor. You wont waste any more time on an uninterested girl. And it tells you that your game needs more work. As WIA said it, she wont flake on Brad Pitt, or a guy spitting good game.

[General Mayhem]

Although I think the OP might have been trolling, WIA and Dalaran have pretty much got this issue covered.

Being the kind of guy who shames every girl who flakes is a lot like trying to road rage every car that cuts you off on the road.

These chicks have every right to flake. Your ego must be out of control if you think every flake is a personal slight that needs to be met with justice. It's not like you are the only one getting flaked on. Chicks flake on their friends, family. Even men will flake on other men. This is the world we live in.

The best advice has already been given. Change your own behavior. I guarantee that if 50-75% or more of girls are flaking on you your game could use some improvement.

And unless your day is 100% booked between hustling for cash, working out, and hobbies I don't feel bad about chicks wasting your time.

Be honest about whether or not you are even justified to complain about your time being squandered.

If you spend 30 minutes jerking off every day your time probably isn't that precious to being with.

[DimeBait]

I agree with just about everything posted above. It happens to all of us, just try to do better building comfort and attraction. I usually double up on plans and end up cancelling on somebody regardless, so I assume chicks do the same. If she's worth it, I may re-engage, if not I simply ignore the cancellation and next her.
If you really want to get under her skin, after a flake text, reply back, "who's this?"

[JayJuanGee]

(07-20-2016 12:54 PM)General Mayhem Wrote:  

Although I think the OP might have been trolling, WIA and Dalaran have pretty much got this issue covered.

Being the kind of guy who shames every girl who flakes is a lot like trying to road rage every car that cuts you off on the road.

These chicks have every right to flake. Your ego must be out of control if you think every flake is a personal slight that needs to be met with justice. It's not like you are the only one getting flaked on. Chicks flake on their friends, family. Even men will flake on other men. This is the world we live in.

The best advice has already been given. Change your own behavior. I guarantee that if 50-75% or more of girls are flaking on you your game could use some improvement.

And unless your day is 100% booked between hustling for cash, working out, and hobbies I don't feel bad about chicks wasting your time.

Be honest about whether or not you are even justified to complain about your time being squandered.

If you spend 30 minutes jerking off every day your time probably isn't that precious to being with.

You had me cheering all the way until I got to your last two lines, which to me come off as judgmental.

Of course, every guy's time is valuable, and every guy is making choices about how to spend time and maybe how to better utilize his time, but in the end, every guy likely has down time and wasted time and even needs to reconsider how he is spending his time.

Guys who are involved in this forum (except for the trolls) are likely involved in this forum because he is sufficiently open to considering ways to improve himself, which could likely also be an ongoing project when it comes to time management, so I would be careful to denigrate guys who have difficulties or even challenges when it comes to time management because it is likely a characteristic of the majority of RVF guys who work towards improvements of such.

[kaotic]

Shaming a woman for flaking on a date is simply this:



Now if it was a woman you're already fucking, seeing, dating, different story.

I don't take that shit lightly and I let it be known, typically I'll get an immediate apology and she'll make it up.

Always be the one to care less and have the power in a relationship.

[Dantes]

The best way to deal with flaking is to have options. Your response won't make one iota of a difference on her or women collectively.

With that said, the context maters. Did you bang her? First date?

The last girl that flaked on me was a girl that I had a few dates with (didn't bang). I was waiting for her and after 20 minutes, I ordered a meal, had a glass of wine, and then approached a few girls on the street. She has texted and called me several times since then. Silence was my response.