[Amour Fou]

What am I doing wrong?

Tonight...

Start out dolo on alternative nightclub. Beforehand: opened a 6 and a hot blond 7.5 (both 18y) as practice outside, didn't come in. Seemed engaged and laughed at my humour, IOI.

Get in the club, grab a drink, still a bit weak, start to look around. Try and open some girls unsucessfully. Go to first floor. Open an apparently lone young girl close to the toilet. She is with a guy I know that suddenly appears, but the same thread is used to a girl she knows who is around; a 6, somewhere on her late 20s, seems drunk and interested, full of IOIs. Lets call her girl 1. Talk to her for 10 min, seems very interested, but as it is early, I mark her as my back up plan and leave, saying cordially that I'll meet her later. Go out to the smokers zone, make phone call to 2 friends who are about to come in. After call, open succesfully a mixed 6-7 set with 3 cute girls. Start a deep and thorough conversation with a really nice 7 (21y dark skinned), lets call her girl 2. We get along really well, and when she finished her beer, I invite her in, telling her I'll pay her another one. She says she'd go, but as a "friend'. I tell aloud to her beta orbiter who suddenly appears that I "have enough friends already" and disapear into the club.

Two friends of mine arrive (one of them a decent wing). We proceed with the heavy work. Open some snobish 7.5 subtly but somewhat unsucessfully. Work, work, work. Next to the top floor, reopen a big set of 5 girls, who are from another brazilian state (Goiás). As all leave, one of them (6.5 dyed redhead) falls into my game and start giving IOI, kino, and small talk. Let´s call her girl 3. She is staying for another 2 weeks in Rio, in a hostel very close to where I live. I hand her my cel, she types her number and calls (!) as a guarantee she'll have my number when she reaches her hostel. She leaves saying she has to stick to her girlfriends. I cordially let her go, sending an sms so she'll remember.

Walk around a bit, chat with my friends, try to unsuccesfully reopen some sets.

First floor: bump into girl 1. She says she is leaving, but still seems interested. Follow her outside. She's with a friend that insisted to leave. I tell her I'd buy her a drink if she sticks around. Seems very tempted, stays at least 3min pondering about it, but cockblocker friend hurries her and she leaves, without a number or anything.

Work work work. Inside, realise that girl 3 is with a boring looking guy. Is it so? Not sure. Work work work.

A girl (6.5) who is a "friend" of my wingman that I disliked for her bitchy attitude remembers my name and talks to me. Seems interested. I play her accordingly, insist, but she tells me she is hooking up with this other friend of mine (I'm sure he couldn't care less) and backs off.

Go out a bit and realise girl 2 (my fav) is leaving. She has lost her cel phone, and says I could add her on facebook. We live really close and I charmingly tell her we could go out for coffee one day. She seems open to the idea. Chat her some more before she leaves.

Go inside. Girl 3 definitely is hooking with a beta type. Dislike. I see my wingman hooking up with the same girl he's been working for ages. I feel sutpid for not having persistend on any of the previous girls. Feel that is something wrong with the world, than leave the venue almost at 5am, working the following morning.

I consider myself as having decent game; I am very good at talking, and wonder what is wrong. Is it me? The venue? The girls? The day (thursday night)? Similar situations happened before.

Is it lack of persistence and focus with a girl? Should I instead of planting seeds be pushing more on a girl that is already open? Should I be contempted with the first thing I see? Is always thinking I can do better hindering me? Am I getting lazy by already be banging a girl on the reg and setting dates with another? Am I too elegant/oldschool?

As of now, my game runs as smooth/direct/lighthearted/aloof. I am somewhat lost, wondering what would be the next logical step.

Thanks a lot for those who read and could give any advice... Feeling as if I'm hitting a big wall here.

[hypesession]

you're instincts are right. theyre telling you you're bouncing around too much. after you played the field a little bit you need to settle on one.

[Amour Fou]

HAHA.

Add girl 2 on facebook. Send a cool message, insinuating a date close by...

As I rapidly read her profile, I see: Interested in: Women.

A lesbo? Is there such a thing?

I don't know how it's elsewhere, but here nowadays where I hang in Rio the biggest cockblock issue () is... other girls? Comments...

[K-man]

(07-22-2011 03:56 AM)Amour Fou Wrote:  

Am I getting lazy by already be banging a girl on the reg and setting dates with another?

That may be the key. I know with me it's the same issue. When I go out to sarge, my main goal is not to bang per se, but to keep in shape, talk to girls, create attraction, and get validation of my ability to pull if I really put my mind to it. But more often than not I don't push to the limit and escalate to a bang, especially if the girl is not better than what I have at home.

That being said, there still may be other issues with your game. It seems kind of erratic. It may sound old-fashioned, but do you follow the classic framework:
1. DHV by one (preferrably more) of the following: looks, dress, style, dancing, smooth talk, stories, etc.
2. Neg if necessary
3. Qualify - this is very important. If you don't make her qualify herself, she will feel it was too easy (see Roosh's post "it shouldn't be so easy")
4. Comfort/rapport - this is especially challenging in a club with loud music

Of course, this is not set in stone, sometimes the bang just happens. But if it doesn't happen by itself and you want to make it happen, it helps to follow a set of rules that have been proved to work consistenly.

[pitt]

You seem to have game and the courage to approach girls but i think you lack escalation and you are not inviting girls to your house.

When you open them, try escalate them, touch their hands, avoid talking about life in general, hug her, try kiss her on the neck, if not, invite them to your house, tell them you have an after party at your house..i think you are not escalating enough.

[CJ]

Alright, let's look at each girl one by one...

GIRL 1

(07-22-2011 03:56 AM)Amour Fou Wrote:  

a 6, somewhere on her late 20s, seems drunk and interested, full of IOIs. Lets call her girl 1. Talk to her for 10 min, seems very interested, but as it is early, I mark her as my back up plan and leave.

Don't make a drunk girl your back-up plan. Drunk girls' minds, moods and situations can change on a whim. Strike while the iron is hot.

Quote:

First floor: bump into girl 1. She says she is leaving, but still seems interested. Follow her outside. She's with a friend that insisted to leave. I tell her I'd buy her a drink if she sticks around. Seems very tempted, stays at least 3min pondering about it, but cockblocker friend hurries her and she leaves, without a number or anything.

Not a big surprise here. You should've offered to buy her rooster blocking friend a drink instead. That would've disarmed her, and given you more time. Sounds like had you pressed this one harder you could've banged her.

GIRL 2

(07-22-2011 03:56 AM)Amour Fou Wrote:  

Start a deep and thorough conversation with a really nice 7 (21y dark skinned), lets call her girl 2. We get along really well, and when she finished her beer, I invite her in, telling her I'll pay her another one. She says she'd go, but as a "friend'. I tell aloud to her beta orbiter who suddenly appears that I "have enough friends already" and disapear into the club.

Go out a bit and realise girl 2 (my fav) is leaving. She has lost her cel phone, and says I could add her on facebook. We live really close and I charmingly tell her we could go out for coffee one day. She seems open to the idea. Chat her some more before she leaves.

Why on Earth would you even talk to this girl a second time? Let alone add her on FB... she may or may not be a lesbian, but this one isn't worth your time. Worse yet, you asked her out for coffee? Don't do that!

GIRL 3

(07-22-2011 03:56 AM)Amour Fou Wrote:  

As all leave, one of them (6.5 dyed redhead) falls into my game and start giving IOI, kino, and small talk. Let´s call her girl 3. She is staying for another 2 weeks in Rio, in a hostel very close to where I live. I hand her my cel, she types her number and calls (!) as a guarantee she'll have my number when she reaches her hostel.

Always a good sign. A move I like to use is to tell her to text me her name & #, so I can save it in my phone. This works great because it A. Makes sure you have the right #, and B. Prevents you from forgetting her name.

Quote:

She leaves saying she has to stick to her girlfriends. I cordially let her go, sending an sms so she'll remember. Work work work. Inside, realise that girl 3 is with a boring looking guy. Is it so? Not sure. Work work work.

Here you could've made sure. Unless she was deeply engrossed in a conversation (or it had only been a couple minutes) , you could've said 'Hey, what's up!" Introduced yourself to her 'friend' and then said, "My buddies are going to go do a shot, come join us." If she refuses, or tries to ignore you, then she wasn't that into you in the first place.

Quote:

Go inside. Girl 3 definitely is hooking with a beta type. Dislike. I see my wingman hooking up with the same girl he's been working for ages. I feel sutpid for not having persistend on any of the previous girls. Feel that is something wrong with the world, than leave the venue almost at 5am, working the following morning.

Ha, bummer dude. Course, you don't know if that guy was beta, he could've had sweet game, don't hate cuz he took your missed lay-up coast-to-coast the other way.

(07-22-2011 03:56 AM)Amour Fou Wrote:  

I consider myself as having decent game; I am very good at talking, and wonder what is wrong. Is it me? The venue? The girls? The day (thursday night)? Similar situations happened before.

Is it lack of persistence and focus with a girl? Should I instead of planting seeds be pushing more on a girl that is already open? Should I be contempted with the first thing I see? Is always thinking I can do better hindering me? Am I getting lazy by already be banging a girl on the reg and setting dates with another? Am I too elegant/oldschool?

It's not you, not the venue, not the girls, and definitely not the day (Thursdays can be hot). Sometimes you just strike out, but it looks like you passed on the guarantee, never a good move.

You already know what you need to do, just push the interaction further with girls you've already opened. You don't have to just settle with the first girl that responds to your game, but if you feel you've got a good chance of banging the girl, why wander and take the risk of someone else sharking her from you? Next time, try to nail the first girl that you think you have a good shot @ an SNL with, just to break this cycle and mental anguish it is causing you.

As for being lazy, ya that's possible. I'd keep my regular until you've found a replacement though. Just find ways to convince yourself you must find a new member for your harem by X date.

[Amour Fou]

Thank you all very, very much for the help, I feel privileged to be part of this community. What we have here is pure gold.

I had a hard, sleepless day, I had just written that post the moment I arrived from the venue, all fresh.

Gathering all that's been said, I do recognize a pattern. I feel that I am very confident and comfortable opening girls and building some attraction, but yeah, escalating seems to be the issue, amongst other things. I think I'm not pushing the interaction enough, and maybe not into the proper logistics, ie isolating etc. I usually do make the girl qualify, but perhaps I should do it a bit more as well.

I've been into this experimental phase as of lately, mainly exemplified by the "offering a girl drinks" move, something I´ve never done before, and something that isn't that common over here.

About the lazyness factor... some time ago, I'd go for the first easy girl that opened well; nowadays, I'm getting more selective, more into quality, but that is also hindering me, as I keep postponing and passing on the "guarantee" to the doubtful. And I am not getting SNLs!

I think that the main message overall is that I should push the interaction as far as it can go without delaying, going for the close. Focusing instead of dispersing.

I also just realised something that I might be doing that I don't know if it is harming me or not, and would like to hear about it...

The way I work is by opening sets and after a while reopening them and going for the close. I never do it straight on when I first bump into a girl. I open, talk, DHV, make her qualify, tease, and go walk a bit to look at the scenery. Say 15min later, I reopen and try to drag to the dancefloor or somewhere more private and attempt a kiss close. That is my main modus operandi. I think the bright side of that is that I open tons of girls and then bump into some of them later and go for the close. It might be all from my head, but I think that that way the interaction goes more smoothly, spontaneous and natural, less needy/desperate if I instead pushed it all on one go. Is this something that some of you share or am I just being silly, and the best I should do is from the moment I open I head on for the close without interuptions? I'd have to practice that, as it doesn't come off that naturally to me... I -am- bouncy and sociable, I guess, and I love the rush of opening a bunch of girls... adrenaline junkie!

These are some details that I'm working to fine tune my night game.

Thank you all yet again!

[Amour Fou]

[hypesession]

(07-22-2011 08:20 PM)Amour Fou Wrote:  

The way I work is by opening sets and after a while reopening them and going for the close. I never do it straight on when I first bump into a girl. I open, talk, DHV, make her qualify, tease, and go walk a bit to look at the scenery. Say 15min later, I reopen and try to drag to the dancefloor or somewhere more private and attempt a kiss close. That is my main modus operandi. I think the bright side of that is that I open tons of girls and then bump into some of them later and go for the close. It might be all from my head, but I think that that way the interaction goes more smoothly, spontaneous and natural, less needy/desperate if I instead pushed it all on one go. Is this something that some of you share or am I just being silly, and the best I should do is from the moment I open I head on for the close without interuptions? I'd have to practice that, as it doesn't come off that naturally to me... I -am- bouncy and sociable, I guess, and I love the rush of opening a bunch of girls... adrenaline junkie!