[Scaro066]

I'd like some feedback. Found this opportunity while on vacation. Here is the deal, I have this opportunity, the time and money is in my favor. I have been working about 3 years full time as a software engineer. The bar would cost only half my savings, so it doesn't really hurt as much, I am debt free. I believe this opportunity is gold for me to grow as a man to learn business and of course social skills. I know Spanish so communication wouldn't be a problem.

The issue is that I have no experience of owning a business, the current owner says he will teach me how to manage the bar. He is selling it because he is tired, he owned it for 5 years. I am not sure if anyone has experience with this kind of situation, but in review I will be leaving the US to live in Mexico to run this bar, is this a bad idea? Also I am not sure if I will be able to practice game while running the business. The bar is pretty popular and it seems to generate enough profit.

In my personal opinion, I feel this could be a fresh start for me to self redevelop myself, I've been through a lot at this point I don't mind taking risks. I don't care if I have a lot of money or if I have a family (not that I am looking to start one). I want to work on myself and I feel this opportunity will help with that. A lot to process. Thoughts?

Thx
-T

[Saweeep]

My personal opinion is that when you are young, if you are going to start a business and take some risks, it should be for something that has potentially high rewards.

The upside of this bar cannot be high enough to dedicate your 20s to it.

[Scaro066]

(04-12-2016 11:53 AM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  

My personal opinion is that when you are young, if you are going to start a business and take some risks, it should be for something that has potentially high rewards.

The upside of this bar cannot be high enough to dedicate your 20s to it.

The rewards I see are the following: having full ownership of a business, learning the ins and outs of running a bar Business, improve social skills (including networking), live near the beach, live independently, also I forgot to mention the bar has an apartment above where I will be staying, Mexican culture, Mexican food, Mexican girls, etc.

I do want to focus more initially on the business side, but then I also want to improve in other areas as well.

[Saweeep]

(04-12-2016 12:02 PM)Scaro066 Wrote:  

(04-12-2016 11:53 AM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  

My personal opinion is that when you are young, if you are going to start a business and take some risks, it should be for something that has potentially high rewards.

The upside of this bar cannot be high enough to dedicate your 20s to it.

The rewards I see are the following: having full ownership of a business, learning the ins and outs of running a bar Business, improve social skills (including networking), live near the beach, live independently, also I forgot to mention the bar has an apartment above where I will be staying, Mexican culture, Mexican food, Mexican girls, etc.

I do want to focus more initially on the business side, but then I also want to improve in other areas as well.

I get that.

The problem is that when you want to give it up you will probably get very little more than you paid and be back to square one, but just older and quite possibly burned out.

What does the bar make? Can you realistically improve upon that? Can you afford not to be putting in crazy 7 day per week hours?

How will you employ staff? How are you going to stop them stealing money or giving all their friends drinks?

Will you actually have the time or energy to be gaming your customers?

Will that beach be something you look at lustfully all day but never get to experience?

Is there a local organised crime syndicate that will expect protection money? (Don't think it doesn't happen...bars get shaken down in my 1mil+ English city by gangs let alone the developing world).

What other legal stuff do you need to know?

I could keep writing points to add to this list all day...

If you're happy with the answers, fair enough

[Scaro066]

(04-12-2016 12:10 PM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  

(04-12-2016 12:02 PM)Scaro066 Wrote:  

(04-12-2016 11:53 AM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  

My personal opinion is that when you are young, if you are going to start a business and take some risks, it should be for something that has potentially high rewards.

The upside of this bar cannot be high enough to dedicate your 20s to it.

The rewards I see are the following: having full ownership of a business, learning the ins and outs of running a bar Business, improve social skills (including networking), live near the beach, live independently, also I forgot to mention the bar has an apartment above where I will be staying, Mexican culture, Mexican food, Mexican girls, etc.

I do want to focus more initially on the business side, but then I also want to improve in other areas as well.

I get that.

The problem is that when you want to give it up you will probably get very little more than you paid and be back to square one, but just older and quite possibly burned out.

What does the bar make? Can you realistically improve upon that? Can you afford not to be putting in crazy 7 day per week hours?

How will you employ staff? How are you going to stop them stealing money or giving all their friends drinks?

Will you actually have the time or energy to be gaming your customers?

Will that beach be something you look at lustfully all day but never get to experience?

Is there a local organised crime syndicate that will expect protection money? (Don't think it doesn't happen...bars get shaken down in my 1mil+ English city by gangs let alone the developing world).

What other legal stuff do you need to know?

I could keep writing points to add to this list all day...

If you're happy with the answers, fair enough

It def will be a challenge and a lifestyle change. Good questions to think about. Thanks!

[Saweeep]

Just try and take the emotion and desire to do something new out of the equation and think about it long and hard from a business point of view.

If and when you get some trading figures, post them up here. Lots of guys will look them over for you, I'm sure.

[pitt]

Bad idea mate.


The owner of the bar probably is not earning much profit (if any), this is why he is looking to sell it. He has been running it for 5 years and he is already tired of it?

I have never been to Mexico but I presume that they can be as shady as many other Latin american people.

You are probably not so experienced with Mexican culture, they will take advantage of you being young and a foreigner. I think you are too young to run such risk and I seriously don't see any probability of success according to what you wrote here.

Forget this business idea and invest your money elsewhere or just keep it in the bank till you come across another good business idea.

[hydrogonian]

I'd sooner by swampland in Florida than a bar in Cancun.

You haven't calculated in the fact that the one or more Mexican mobs in the area is going to shove their large hairy knuckles up your ass and keep them there for the duration. They might use lube for a Mexican National. For you, likely no lube.

Consider that no one sells profitable Mexican businesses across the border to gringoes. I'd venture that, off of the bat, you are wading into an unprofitable situation for any number of unpredictable reasons.

Also, Cancun is one of the true armpits of North America. It's absolutely riddled with the worst type of scum in my opinion. There is the thin veneer of the money making tourist machine, and then the black underbelly that supports it.

In short, don't be a sucker. Someone else undoubtedly will be, but it doesn't have to be you.

[Scaro066]

I keep getting mixed reactions from other places. I am not exactly gringo looking, I look Hispanic. Owner seems legit. I plan to make another trip to to visit the bar and get as much info. Thanks for the feedback, a lot to consider of course.

[Shoubuliao]

I wouldn't do it op. While you may grow from the experience, you'll also need an exit strategy, and dropping a software engineering career to run a bar in Cancun is going to be hard to explain on a resume. If you want to live in another country, see if there's a way for you to put those engineering skills to use. I'd suggest going to a destination where you'll have more business opportunities than Cancun. If you want to improve your social skills, go out more.

[hydrogonian]

It sounds like you are just looking for permission to pull the trigger.

It's a common human behavior.

Just remember this GIF when you find yourself in an illiquid investment in Mexico, perhaps with payments that you didn't expect. I post this not as an insult, but only to provide a visual to the situation:



Good luck with it!

[Virtus]

We had a bar time share idea/many page thread on this forum with members spinning off and creating their own website/forum several years back. After running the numbers, the consensus was that as a "rent-to-be-a-bar-owner-for-a-time-and slay-tourist-pussy-because-of-a-status-of-Welcome-To-My-Bar" it would be gold. otherwise it would be a wash

[Scaro066]

(04-12-2016 01:06 PM)Shoubuliao Wrote:  

I wouldn't do it op. While you may grow from the experience, you'll also need an exit strategy, and dropping a software engineering career to run a bar in Cancun is going to be hard to explain on a resume. If you want to live in another country, see if there's a way for you to put those engineering skills to use. I'd suggest going to a destination where you'll have more business opportunities than Cancun. If you want to improve your social skills, go out more.

I actually do have an app idea for the bar. Which is just another reason why I would like to experiment the bar ownership business. Also I was going to continue my freelance web development work in Mexico, whenever I have the time of course. I've been looking at different options, seems like the crazier idea the better.

(04-12-2016 01:10 PM)hydrogonian Wrote:  

It sounds like you are just looking for permission to pull the trigger.

It's a common human behavior.

Just remember this GIF when you find yourself in an illiquid investment in Mexico, perhaps with payments that you didn't expect. I post this not as an insult, but only to provide a visual to the situation:


Good luck with it!

You are right. The story gets more complex. I need a change which is why I've been trying to move out of the country to work on the software development field, however the bar idea popped out of nowhere. The craziness of the idea is what attracts me the most. Funny GIF btw, I'll sure remember it if I get into that situation.

[rudebwoy]

Cancun is a tourist hot spot.

If the owner was making decent money, he wouldn't be selling to you.

Mexico isn't like America, by that I mean there are different rules down there.

I wouldn't touch that business with a ten foot pole.

[Going strong]

My advice: Get permanent (or at least 2-year) residency before buying this bar.

Ah, I almost forgot my second advice: don't buy a bar in Cancun unless you are politically and-or criminally connected. Just don't.

Do yourself a favor: buy a bar in Buenos Aires, Santiago de Chile, or Lima or Porto Alegre... Or in BKK. Or in EE. My 2 cents...

[Nitro]

As mentioned above, I'm completely against this move. Cancun businesses SHOULD be making bank. It the bar was profitable for him, he wouldn't be selling to YOU. It's also one of the hottest tourist spots in the WORLD. It's also got a strong criminal underbelly running the city behind the curtains. That said, the owner probably got threatened by the local cartels for not giving in and wants out of the business. You will most likely attract that negative attention yourself while saving the current owner financially. Mexico is corrupt all over, if you're gonna run a bar, and don't want the burden of being connected to ruthless, cold blooded criminals then stay in the States and do business the right way where at least you have legal protection.

EDIT: Just notice you don't even really care about running a bar, you just want out of the States. Well, you could just use that money to relocate, and work online using your skills to earn money that way. No need to risk going broke AND/OR getting yourself killed doing shady business in a shady country.

[Cattle Rustler]

(04-12-2016 06:16 PM)Nitro Wrote:  

As mentioned above, I'm completely against this move. Cancun businesses SHOULD be making bank. It the bar was profitable for him, he wouldn't be selling to YOU. It's also one of the hottest tourist spots in the WORLD. It's also got a strong criminal underbelly running the city behind the curtains. That said, the owner probably got threatened by the local cartels for not giving in and wants out of the business. You will most likely attract that negative attention yourself while saving the current owner financially. Mexico is corrupt all over, if you're gonna run a bar, and don't want the burden of being connected to ruthless, cold blooded criminals then stay in the States and do business the right way where at least you have legal protection.

EDIT: Just notice you don't even really care about running a bar, you just want out of the States. Well, you could just use that money to relocate, and work online using your skills to earn money that way. No need to risk going broke AND/OR getting yourself killed doing shady business in a shady country.

Right, because the US is a safe low-crime country with no criminal organizations or corrupt officials. Common man, lets be rational.


OP, you have to ask how the owner how much protection money he is paying, the dope distribution setup (what's his cut, what products get sold), and find out who runs that part of town (Zetas, CDG, Sinaloa, Jalisco Nueva Generacion, Los Pitufos). Also, figure out how politically connected the seller is. Is this more of a beer place, club, lounge? How much alcohol is he flowing? How is the set up? Remember, the best layouts for pussy are not the best layouts for making cash. Let him open his books.

If you're in for a wild right, it might be a fixer upper but you'll need to put some money into it and be strapped. Get shot a couple of times and let it ring out a couple of times too. Just remember, only carry up to a 38 super when you hit the streets. Otherwise it's a "possession of a firearm for exclusive armed forces use" charge.

[doc holliday]

I have to agree with everyone here. You're biggest issue will be paying off the gangs looking to shake you down. Being a non native Mexican, you can expect especially harsh treatment. Once upon a time, I considered opening a health care facility down there to attract Americans and Canadians looking for health care at a considerably lower cost than up here. It's daunting to try and run a business in a place like Mexico but I may revisit it again at some point. Couldn't even imagine running a bar there.

If your looking to get out of the US, I would think your industry is perfect for working remotely. If you're an independent consultant with clients around the world, couldn't you live anywhere and do it? Some food for thought.

[Off The Reservation]

You are being scammed.

BUT

If you post the question in enough places a number of people will tell you it is a good idea. You can select the responses most suited to your wishes.

http://www.cancuncare.com/forum/living-c...-24yo.html

http://www.rsdnation.com/node/626570

[Kona]

I say do it.

You're 24. If you lose your ass you make up for it later. You're young.

Try to do some software engineer shit from Cancun to hold you over.

Just make sure you arent getting scammed. Get an accountant and a lawyer. Make sure they speak Spanish.

Go to one of those bartender academy things.

After you do those things low ball the hell out of the current owner and take over.

Try to get him, the owner, to finance a portion of the sale. That'll give you an idea about who you are dealing with.

Is the real estate included?

No risk, no reward.

Aloha!

[frozen-ace]

In my previous life I worked at a multinational and our semi-defunct Mexican branch fell into my lap to close down. For two years I fought a long, drawn out battle with an organization more ruthless and cunning than any cartel you will encounter- the Hacienda! It's essentially the equivalent of the IRS. We had millions (Mxn peso) of VAT refundable and the Hacienda simply refused to issue is the refunds. They would ask for documentation (give us A, B, C, D, and E), and then would ask for 5 more things. Time would go on and then they would ask for the original A-E again. They were always trying to trip you up. It was a circus show the whole time. I even heard they were paid bonuses based on how much VAT they didn't refund. Every couple months they would issue a tiny refund just to see if we would go away. There is a lot of VAT fraud in Mexico so the Hacienda is very careful in what it pays out.

In the end out only option was to sue the Mexican government in tax court. Our Mexican lawyers said they would be happy to push the case (they billed at $500 USD per hour, and of course payment had to be made in USD), but it would take years, and we'd probably lose. Or they said wait until a new government is elected and all the major players in the Hacienda will be replaced and we could try our luck then. In the end we just walked away from it.

That was a major legitimate government entity we were dealing with. Now think about all the underground entities and enterprises you will have to deal with. It won't be on the same scale, but you get the picture.

Mexico has really complicated tax and employment laws, and just to buy and sell land you have to get every sort of stamp imaginable. If you are in a costal area I'd be surprised if you can own the land. It's been a long time so I'm a little rusty, but depending on how your entity is set up it could be you need two shareholders (for corporations you needed at least two shareholders). Then the employees are guaranteed a certain percent of your profits. So you house all your assets and revenues in one company and have no employees, and then make another company with no assets and all employees and that company leases the employees to the corporation with the revenue with a 10% markup on wages. The employees get that 10% as profit sharing at the end of the year. That setup was almost standard across the board for corporations in Mexico.

Not sure how the bar is structured. Just something to think about.

[BoiBoi]

(04-12-2016 12:33 PM)hydrogonian Wrote:  

I'd sooner by swampland in Florida than a bar in Cancun.

You haven't calculated in the fact that the one or more Mexican mobs in the area is going to shove their large hairy knuckles up your ass and keep them there for the duration. They might use lube for a Mexican National. For you, likely no lube.

Consider that no one sells profitable Mexican businesses across the border to gringoes. I'd venture that, off of the bat, you are wading into an unprofitable situation for any number of unpredictable reasons.

Also, Cancun is one of the true armpits of North America. It's absolutely riddled with the worst type of scum in my opinion. There is the thin veneer of the money making tourist machine, and then the black underbelly that supports it.

In short, don't be a sucker. Someone else undoubtedly will be, but it doesn't have to be you.

This. Unless you know Mexico very well and have some connections, just don't. Tourist destinations in general are usually full of scammy lowlifes and in Latin America more so. Every pendejo without a job/ education/ money goes there trying to milk the gringos. Additionally, you have to factor in the carteles and you'll have a fun-filled pinata.

[Scaro066]

Thanks all for the feedback so far. Lot of food for thought.

[quote] (04-12-2016 07:58 PM)Cattle Rustler Wrote:  

[quote='Nitro' pid='1275629' dateline='1460503015']
...
OP, you have to ask how the owner how much protection money he is paying, the dope distribution setup (what's his cut, what products get sold), and find out who runs that part of town (Zetas, CDG, Sinaloa, Jalisco Nueva Generacion, Los Pitufos). Also, figure out how politically connected the seller is. Is this more of a beer place, club, lounge? How much alcohol is he flowing? How is the set up? Remember, the best layouts for pussy are not the best layouts for making cash. Let him open his books.

If you're in for a wild right, it might be a fixer upper but you'll need to put some money into it and be strapped. Get shot a couple of times and let it ring out a couple of times too. Just remember, only carry up to a 38 super when you hit the streets. Otherwise it's a "possession of a firearm for exclusive armed forces use" charge.[/quote]

The latest street info in Cancun said that the Zetas have been taken down or at least aren't in control so much. I've lived in a third world country for 9 years and I have some non-violent criminal connections. You just have to become friends with the cartel, the owner didn't provide alot of info about that I didn't ask him, he only mentioned that you should treat the police nice so they don't bother you enforcing laws should as underage drinking, etc. Everyone is just trying to make a living. My Spanish is great so I am not afraid to make connections with many types of people. Also you have to play by the system.

[quote] (04-12-2016 08:14 PM)doc holliday Wrote:  

I have to agree with everyone here. You're biggest issue will be paying off the gangs looking to shake you down. Being a non native Mexican, you can expect especially harsh treatment. Once upon a time, I considered opening a health care facility down there to attract Americans and Canadians looking for health care at a considerably lower cost than up here. It's daunting to try and run a business in a place like Mexico but I may revisit it again at some point. Couldn't even imagine running a bar there.

If your looking to get out of the US, I would think your industry is perfect for working remotely. If you're an independent consultant with clients around the world, couldn't you live anywhere and do it? Some food for thought.[/quote]

I've consider working as a software engineer in Mexico, and doing some numbers , the bar idea seems more profitable, unless I try another country, but then again competition.

[quote] (04-12-2016 09:32 PM)offthereservation Wrote:  

You are being scammed.

BUT

If you post the question in enough places a number of people will tell you it is a good idea. You can select the responses most suited to your wishes.

http://www.cancuncare.com/forum/living-c...-24yo.html

http://www.rsdnation.com/node/626570[/quote]

Wow. Bravo bravo. haha. It is all about the research my friend.

[quote] (04-12-2016 10:42 PM)Kona Wrote:  

I say do it.

You're 24. If you lose your ass you make up for it later. You're young.

Try to do some software engineer shit from Cancun to hold you over.

Just make sure you arent getting scammed. Get an accountant and a lawyer. Make sure they speak Spanish.

Go to one of those bartender academy things.

After you do those things low ball the hell out of the current owner and take over.

Try to get him, the owner, to finance a portion of the sale. That'll give you an idea about who you are dealing with.

Is the real estate included?

No risk, no reward.

Aloha![/quote]

Real state is not included. It is just the business. Owning the land would become more problematic. I feel like I have nothing to lose except time and a bit of my career.

[Off The Reservation]

(04-13-2016 07:07 AM)Scaro066 Wrote:  

Wow. Bravo bravo. haha. It is all about the research my friend.

Right. Researching opinions is not the same as researching a business opportunity.

This is just about you letting go of $xx,xxx or $xxx,xxx USD, nothing more. That's what you are not seeing. You got selected and sized up and chosen for this special opportunity to wire money out.

You have no details, no copy of a lease, no books, no idea whether the local authorities will transfer "licenses" to you, no approval from the building or land owner, no verification the one selling to you is actually the owner, no written proposal of what is and what is not included, no information on what they spend on costs of inventory and labor, etc. Right? Your only "due diligence" is on web forums and not in the local tax offices in Quintana Roo. Do you want a simple way out? Ask your friend for the address of the local tax office and tell him you will be coming down to do some research. "My friend you don't need to do that, don't you trust me?"

Have you made a good faith deposit yet? Has the guy provided you wiring instructions? Go ahead and get it over with and send the money because you have a real strong desire to lower your bank account balances it seems.

OR spend the same money on an income producing property in your area, so you feel like you have invested.

OR just blow the money traveling

OR do an actual search for bars for sale in jurisdictions with the rule of law where your investment can be protected and you understand the lay of the land and can sell it later. (For example Puerto Rico, which has the world's greatest bargains right now, you could buy a beach bar there and you are protected under real law.)

OR OR OR...

What to me it sounds like you are doing is falling for the classic con. How do I know? Because it is the only bar you are looking at and you described it yourself as if you were the con man. The old tired man, the cheap price, the sudden friendship with the sacrificial owner who will help you after, the lack of any details. Con comes from confidence. You exude in your story total confidence in this guy which is scary to say the least.

Considering all your options would mean doing a search of available bars in the area at the least. But you considering no other options, which means you are being driven 100% by your emotion. You are not researching, you are looking for anyone who will tell you what you want to hear. Your other forums seem much more supportive so focus there if you want.

I am all for lessons learned by trying things and many legit opportunities do end up being losers. But the worst sting of all is to simply be scammed. Its a lesson that never feels like it was worth it because you didn't learn anything in the process except that there are scumbags out there that will steal from you.

[hydrogonian]

(04-13-2016 07:07 AM)Scaro066 Wrote:  

You just have to become friends with the cartel,

I almost responded again, inspired by the above quoted sentiment, but then thought "Naaaaaa...."

".....sometimes one must let nature do what she does best".