[XPQ22]

I'm sure many guys here know this. I'm not sure it's anything I've read on the site explicitly, at least I can't remember doing so. So I'll pretend it's my own independent thought.

I think many women are finally more accommodating, forgiving, and at the end of the day, more attracted to a man who, via dates from online dating or otherwise: indicates rapidly and straightforwardly that he views her as nothing more than an occasional fuckbuddy, than a man who goes into a relationship giving her the impression that he's interested in finding a LTR, and then attempts to flip her into that role.

[Rhyme or Reason]

This just in:


Women don't want to be pedastalized.

[kaotic]

Yep Red said it.

The one who makes the first move loses.

If you're chasing her and escalating your relationship, you're losing.

If you suggest exclusivity, then suggest an official relationship, then suggesting an engagement first, etc.

The one who cares less in the relationship, has the most power in the relationship.

Let her be the one chasing you, let her ask "what are we", lead, but don't make make first moves like that. Leaving her at any time because of any BS she pulls gives you power in the relationship. Especially if she knows you aren't bluffing.

[XPQ22]

(03-23-2016 02:54 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

If you're chasing her and escalating your relationship, you're losing.

If you suggest exclusivity, then suggest an official relationship, then suggesting an engagement first, etc.

The one who cares less in the relationship, has the most power in the relationship.

Wasn't that exactly the advice given to women throughout the 1990s in those "relationship guide" books written for them, like "The Rules" and so on?

Make him chase, kick him to the curb, play hard to get, ignore his phone calls, make him wait.

So many men in my family fell for it. And at the end of the day, many of the women who followed these "rules" ended up lonely, dissatisfied, and bitter. Like you, Auntie!

[Rhyme or Reason]

^ Women are encouraged to optimize, and even weaponize their sexual strategy for their own gain while men are shamed for doing the same. It's a sort of "meta" level of white knightery that exists in all aspects of our society.

As far as the OP, this is why I encourage all men to learn to play poker. I went through a phase of playing incessantly online and off. It gives you much needed perspective on how to feel out other people and determine where they're strong and where they're weak, while training you to curb the outward expressions of your emotional state. Even if you "catching feelz" you should never make it obvious. Laying it all out there in the hope she will reciprocate is never a good idea; it's akin to showing your opponent your full house and telling him "Please go all in"

[TheOllam]

(03-23-2016 04:09 PM)Red_Pillage Wrote:  

As far as the OP, this is why I encourage all men to learn to play poker. I went through a phase of playing incessantly online and off. It gives you much needed perspective on how to feel out other people and determine where they're strong and where they're weak, while training you to curb the outward expressions of your emotional state. Even if you "catching feelz" you should never make it obvious. Laying it all out there in the hope she will reciprocate is never a good idea; it's akin to showing your opponent your full house and telling him "Please go all in"

POKER: I pull together a group of guys 5-7 once a month and play tourney style texas hold'em. I gained experience playing with some relatives over the years. My uncles talked so much shit and were intimidating at the table.

Flash forward years later, I'm much more experienced than my friends, but still a newbie compared to the pros.

Low Stakes only, good way for a group of dudes to chop it up and win/lose a few bucks. More importantly, learn the psychology of playing, being slick, bullying a table, bluffing, or just flat out understanding the dynamics of the hands at high speed. Plus if someone is taking too long, not afraid to talk shit because it's a group of men.

We are all in 30's-40's, not sure if many guys in their 20's want to play poker these days....

[PapayaTapper]

(03-23-2016 02:54 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

Yep Red said it.

The one who makes the first move loses.

If you're chasing her and escalating your relationship, you're losing.

If you suggest exclusivity, then suggest an official relationship, then suggesting an engagement first, etc.

The one who cares less in the relationship, has the most power in the relationship.

Let her be the one chasing you, let her ask "what are we", lead, but don't make make first moves like that. Leaving her at any time because of any BS she pulls gives you power in the relationship. Especially if she knows you aren't bluffing.

Word

[yeppels]

I think the underlying concept here is not necessarily about caring less, but about being more subtle with your social skill of indicating romantic interest. There is something to be said about the people who are clearly the most powerful ones in the room, but you are not really sure why. They will never directly state that they are, in fact, they will probably be humble about it and display their power via their dress, their body language, their mastery of handling social etiquette etc.

This subtlety carries over to personal relationships. I remember reading a post somewhere that said "A woman 'aggressively' pursuing a man actually just makes it more clear to the man that she is available for pursuit rather than actively pursuing." While she could simply state "Hey I like you", this is a lot less exciting for her than playing a game of subtle romance. Likewise for men. When you tell a girl, "Hey I like you", this takes the fun out of romance not only for her, but also for yourself. You don't care about this if you're just trying to get laid, but if you want to build a connection with a girl, I feel like having a "battle" of sorts where each ones uses subtle social cues to indicate their interest towards one another creates a stronger social connection than relaying the same thing using boring words.

Texting, which is the primary means of communications for many people, almost completely destroys this ability to be subtle. You can't hear tone of voice or see body language. The way to indicate "I might be available/interested " is to not text back for hours. Sure you can flirt a little bit, but it gets stale really fast. Because we rely on texting so much, we as humanity lose our mastery over subtlety. Day gaming is great practice for this since you strike up a conversation about whatever is happening around you and subtly drop hints that you are into the girl, and try to notice if she drops subtle hints back.

TLDR Social subtlety is crucial for both men and women in building attraction but we as a society are losing our ability for it and must make up for it in other ways.

[XPQ22]

(03-24-2016 11:05 AM)yeppels Wrote:  

Texting, which is the primary means of communications for many people, almost completely destroys this ability to be subtle. You can't hear tone of voice or see body language.

One of the many reasons women love texting. It facilitates ambiguity.