[Kid Strangelove]

As some of you know, I have spend most of 2015 battling cancer. It was truly the greatest test I have ever faced in my life, but I feel like I have come out of this experience as a better, stronger, more determined person. When the doctors told me that they couldn't find any remaining traces of cancer, I was overjoyed, and I couldn't wait for life to become "normal" again.

"Normal" for me involved going out and hitting on girls. I was pretty good at it. It was part of my life. It was part of my personality. I was the perfect "clown", as Roosh would describe it. And in NYC - a fast paced city where everyone feels like they have a better option just around the corner - clown game was a necessity.

Ever since I tried to re-integrate myself into the dating world, I've been finding it impossible to "clown".

• I don't feel like I have anything to prove to anybody.
• I don't feel the need to justify my life and choices to someone less intelligent than me
• I find it impossible to sympathize with anyone complaining about things that can be easily fixed with a little hard work, discipline and/or elbow grease.
  

These feelings are especially magnified when I try to go out. I know that women put up "bitch shields" at a bar or a club, and since I no longer drink, it has become unbearable to deal with. To take down a bitch shield only to discover the walls being put up were hiding an insecure, petty, stupid, childish spoiled person just feels like a giant waste of my time.

Plus I feel like my cancer battle is now a permanent black cloud that hangs over me in my dating life. I can no longer be the "fun, carefree" guy after I faced something so serious.

The whole experience felt like a giant personality shift for me. I've kind of retreated to a "monk mode", of sorts. I focus on my work. I focus on my fitness (on the plus side, I've lost 20 pounds already this year as my crossfit addiction and lack of alcohol consumption are paying huge dividends). It's completely unappealing to hang out till 4 am.
I admit, I've been violating one of the cardinal player rules, and it's my fault for doing this. I've been taking girls out to dinner. But in my defense - everything else I can think of involves alcohol and I don't drink anymore.

So I ask you this RVF - have any of you dealt with something similar in your lives? What do you do? Do you think it's temporary? I'm willing to listen to all advice, and this forum has never steered me wrong before. Thank you in advance.

[captain_shane]

Congrats beating cancer.

[MY DETROIT PLAYAS]

First off congrats are in order, it takes a high level of determination, will and positive energy to come through the fire of a life-threatening illness.

To address your question, I have shared a similar experience and because of it I emerged as a better, more focused man.

thread-43821.html

My health had deteriorated to the point of be debilitating. I was relegated to a my laz-y boy recliner for hours at a time and like you I was accustomed to living an active, bachelor life. It almost felt like my existence was being swept away from under my feet. I still had my mental capacities, but my body was no longer able to carry out even the simplest of tasks without maximum exertion.

Fortunately, I had a network of friends and family that keep me positive and a team of amazing doctors who keep me informed of what to expect. I was fortunate to get my transplant, but of course my good fortune meant another family's misery and agony. That was the paradox and guilt I still reflect on from time to time.

Surviving meant a renewed purpose for me. In the weeks before and after my transplant, I planned and strategized just what it what I needed to acheive in the coming days, months and years. I was able to go back and finish up my degree and pursue the things that I had put off due to my condition.

I can relate to your feeling of renewed self-belief and determination. There is a certian self-assuredness that follows a man who has stood up to his fears and conquered them.

Now you can get on with your life knowing your former condition didn't define you, it just helped forge man you see before you in the mirror.

[Travesty]

I think this is permanent the way you feel about clown game.

Once your ego gets enough gratification by entertaining women successfully you realize that your material and audience isn't Mozart in nature. It is more like a broken record of Gallagher. I think the cancer basically slapped your ego in the face and said wake up.

Now to enjoy it you will have to find girls that want to follow your new path with you.

[johnbozzz]

Congrats, man. I'm glad you were able to overcome such a shitty thing.
I have to ask where are you meeting women these days if not in clubs?

[kaotic]

Agree with Trav, this is the new you, and you'll have to embrace.

You've stopped giving a shit about petty first world problems and stupidity.

Obviously because you had your life almost taken from you, it changes your ENTIRE perspective.

You don't need to have dinner with a girl or drink to have fun with a bitch.

Just off the top of my head, bowling, shooting pool, walking around, checking out cool local places, would be fun sober. There's a lot of shit out there to do sober.

If your friends or a bitch can't respect you not drinking anymore, fuck them. They aren't understanding that you almost died, which is fucked.

You don't have a black cloud over your head, you've been enlightened to what truly matters in your life.

This is another learning experience for you, once again you'll learn what works and what doesn't with girls in your new lifestyle.

[johnbozzz]

Also, I have to ask you about this "monk mode" that you mentioned. Have you suddenly figured out what you've like to do with your life? Have you decided on a 5 year plan? Or are you just better at focussing? I wouldn't be able to make new friends after that kind of event, I don't believe.

[doc holliday]

There's a lot more to life than just chasing pussy. When you go through a difficult, life changing experience like this, you can't help but look at life a whole lot differently. When you survive an event like cancer, you grow tremendously, you become way more introspective and as a result you often times want to tighten up your social circle amongst other things. Most people don't have much going for them other than going out and getting drunk on weekends and quite frankly, I don't know how anyone lives like that even though so many do. Eliminating these types of people from your life is almost a necessity if you're going to advance in your life. I would go forward with force and be uncompromising in how you live and who you hang out with. Forget about being a clown unless you're in the mood to be one, and then do it because you want to not just to get laid.

As to the dinner date thing, to me there's nothing better than being with a nice looking chick who got dressed up for you, sitting in a nice restaurant, eating great food, enjoying great company and serious conversation. Problem is that most chicks aren't worthy of that so therein lies the problem with the modern day dinner date. But a chick who is cool and worth it, hell yeah its my favorite thing to do.

Congratulations on your victory over this disease. I read your manosphere.com website regularly and enjoy it very much.

[Quintus Curtius]

(03-11-2016 03:42 PM)Kid Strangelove Wrote:  

Ever since I tried to re-integrate myself into the dating world, I've been finding it impossible to "clown".

• I don't feel like I have anything to prove to anybody.
• I don't feel the need to justify my life and choices to someone less intelligent than me
• I find it impossible to sympathize with anyone complaining about things that can be easily fixed with a little hard work, discipline and/or elbow grease.
  

There's another word for this: wisdom.

[Aristotle]

Strangelove,

Having made several extended trips to the most amazing city in America, I can promise you, clown game is NOT required to be successful in NYC.

In fact, I'd argue that nowhere else in US is a better place to run "natural" game.

Let me define "natural": Literally: Be yourself. Not the beta, insecure, sad rom-com version you used to be, but the true, authentic, badass, cancer-surviving, deep, intellectual, brilliant, controversial, and thought provoking individual you are. Don't run "clown game". Be AUTHENTIC. Be who you TRULY ARE. When you start chatting up a girl, don't use any routines, openers, lines, etc. Just say what is on your mind. And do that over and over. Say exactly what you think and feel, when you feel it. At first, it will feel foreign, and uncomfortable. In fact, if you're doing it correctly, and TRULY being yourself, it will feel VERY uncomfortable. Why? Because when you're being completely open and honest with someone, especially a complete stranger, you're leaving an open door for them to hurt you. 99.9% of the time, we're all putting up some level of a front for whomever we're speaking to. Our fathers, our girlfriends, the hostess at the restaurant, your boss, your best friend, everyone. If you start being 100% authentic to everyone in your life, you will be emotionally vulnerable to their reactions. You will get hurt. I don't mean you'll go home and drink yourself to sleep, but I mean that when someone "rejects" the real you it will cause emotional discomfort. Having just survived cancer, this shouldn't be intimidating at all.

Now, once you start doing this, your WORLD will open up. Not every girl is going to like you, nor meet your standards. But you will find many that are open to who you TRULY are, and you'll even find a few that you like for who they TRULY are as well. It's a wonderful thing, and I don't need to tell you, that NYC is full of some truly wonderful people.

Try it out, and let me know how it goes.

[Onto]

QC is summing it up perfectly. There are different ways/circumstances that can lead to wisdom, but the end result is the same. You are a changed man and you no longer find enjoyment or can even do the things you used to.

I remember meeting you in NYC and I really enjoyed it. You have a naturally funny and engaging personality, but I also sensed you had that "wisdom" about you that men tend to get when they've seen or experienced significant things.

Be careful, too much wisdom might lead you to ditching the dinner dates too and wanting to move to another country altogether.

Great to hear you're well again!

[RonnieB]

Sounds like you've broken out of the mind made prison and also conquered your ego. The way you describe it is the zen state I am searching for. Fuck the clown mask

Awesome work beating the cancer

[bootyhuntah]

Good on ya man. Sounds like you need a new vice then. i recommend good coffee. Girls love it and it's a great alternative to alcohol with the added benefit that it makes you more productive to get shit done. There's a lot of good coffee shops in NYC that I can recommend if you are interested.

Also I think maybe your great battle was a blessing in disguise. It sounds like you know what is more important to you now than ever and you don't have to worry about wasting your time with shitty people or situations anymore. Trauma can bring great clarity if we are lucky enough to survive such circumstances. I had a somewhat traumatic (although nowhere near as dramatic) moment earlier this year and am thankful for the clarity that it brought to my life as a result of further reflection.

[DrCotard]

Congratulations. You have overcome a difficult illness. For me this thread is very inspirational specially in the sense of overcoming obstacles and the wisdom gained in the process.

[Wahawahwah]

KS, I used to enjoy your posts on online game, and thought you’d fallen off. Good to have you back and in good health. While I’ve never dealt with cancer myself, two of my close family members battled it at various points in time, and seen the toll it has taken on them and us. The fear, the pain, the uncertainty…it changes you. One of them became very serious and jaded. Its as though the experience had sucked the very soul out of him. I don’t mean to be insensitive or trivializing, but funny uncle J began using the experience as a crutch and died a bitter man.

Grandfather K, on the other hand, not only survived, but the whole experience birthed a strange fire in him. He founded a charity for blind school children and still works 60 hours a week. The battle with cancer is a thing of the past. The scars from the surgery are still there, but he has accepted that and moved on. Whenever people talk about it to him, he brushes it with a smile and moves on to other subjects. While cancer undeniably changed him, he is just grateful that he survived and can appreciate life for another day.

You mentioned that your cancer battle is a permanent black cloud hanging over your dating life right now, that you just want to get back to your old “normal”. Just like any major life experience that people go through - war, divorces, loss of loved ones, natural calamities, cancer… there is no going back to the old normal, because it does not exist. The pursuit of who you used to be or what you used to do is not only futile, but illusory. You cannot go back, because you are not who you were then. Too many people are caught up in reliving the past instead of embracing the present, and it is never the same as “it used to be”.

They say a man should be idealistic when young, and conservative when old. A conservative young man is too afraid to take on the world, and an idealistic old man is a fool who’s never experienced the world for what it truly is. It is never so black and white of course, but you get the point.

You’ve just trumped one of your greatest challenges, but you’re not fully out of the quicksand yet. While cancer will be one of the biggest problems you’ll have faced ever, there will be many more in the future. You do not want to be the guy who, a decade from now, will sit in a bar and feel bitter about how life is not the same or how women are just petty, insipid cum dumpsters that you can't connect with.

Whether the personality shift is real and understandeable, nothing is permanent and it is up to you to go out and discover what you really want. Maybe you will discover that this monk mode is temporary and that you will be able to go back to clowning around once again. Or you’ll realize that maybe you enjoy other pursuits. Either way, it is okay, just so long as you take the time to really figure out where you are headed and what you really want. Don’t let the cancer or the bitterness of who “you could’ve been if not for the cancer” define you. Be thankful for what you have, and don’t fall into the trap of self pity or anger.

Personally, I think you’re a smart, self-aware guy who’s just become more mature, and when the dust settles, you’ll be more comfortable with your paradigm shift.

[dies irae]

Big congrats for your big success.

There is a chapter in the book "50th Law" called "Confront Your Mortality". As far as I remember, that chapter basically says that the people who confronted their mortality stop wasting their times on fruitless endeavors as they already realized that our time on this planet is limited. Your newfound distaste for clowning could be about that.

The good news is, you can channel your energy that you saved from those fruitless endeavors, to building success and wealth. When you build success and wealth, you will no longer need the clown game, girls will already be throwing themselves at you.

I found the book on my archive and copied the opening paragraph of the chapter I talk about:

"IN THE FACE OF OUR INEVITABLE MORTALITY WE CAN DO ONE OF TWO THINGS. WE CAN ATTEMPT TO AVOID THE THOUGHT AT ALL COSTS, CLINGING TO THE ILLUSION THAT WE HAVE ALL THE TIME IN THE WORLD. OR WE CAN CONFRONT THIS REALITY, ACCEPT AND EVEN EMBRACE IT, CONVERTING OUR CONSCIOUSNESS OF DEATH INTO SOMETHING POSITIVE AND ACTIVE. IN ADOPTING SUCH A FEARLESS PHILOSOPHY, WE GAIN A SENSE OF PROPORTION, BECOME ABLE TO SEPARATE WHAT IS PETTY FROM WHAT IS TRULY IMPORTANT. KNOWING OUR DAYS TO BE NUMBERED, WE HAVE A SENSE OF URGENCY AND MISSION. WE CAN APPRECIATE LIFE ALL THE MORE FOR ITS IMPERMANENCE. IF WE CAN OVERCOME THE FEAR OF DEATH, THEN THERE IS NOTHING LEFT TO FEAR"

Good luck.

[Chevalier De Seingalt]

When I was 19 I lost a younger sibling to cancer and went through many of the changes that you described. They weren't temporary. But I suspect that over time it will be easier for you to be more lighthearted and carefree, even if that doesn't mean going back to "clown" game. I think Aristotle's post on incorporating a more "natural" game has a lot of merit given where you're at right now.

To this day when I encounter somebody particularly vapid and spoiled I get a slight pang of anger at seeing life wasted whereas someone like my sibling fought and suffered so much for the chance to keep on living. And actually I turn that anger on myself sometimes if I catch myself being ungrateful or wasting opportunities to grow, and frankly that's a good thing.

Congratulations on your victory.

[ksbms]

I've been many a times to the oncology ward last few months.

My mother was battling cancer. After undergoing chemo, operations, looking for solutions all over the country, filled with hopes and fear, when it came to the terminal stage the only thing she was pleading for was to let her die as soon as possible.

It's been a transformative and traumatic experience to me. I've lost the remaining shades of innocence in me. As a consequence, there are so fewer things that I'm afraid of and my perspective on many things have diametrically changed - especially on the things that are worth living for.

It also made me realise, with all its somber poignancy, that there are things that come and will come to an end no matter what.

For a person who fights or fought cancer, I can imagine it's an experience a thousand fold more transformative.

One can try to describe the experience in as many words as possible but no writer in this world is gifted enough to depict it - only the person going through it will understand it (and, to a degree, perhaps, relatives of that person).

I'm afraid most readers of his post don't realise the poignancy of his and other people who fought cancer, ongoing situation.

The problem for Kid Strangelove is that is difficult to tell if he's been fully cured (doctors who specialise in cancer treatment never used the word 'cured'). Very often, what can we talk about, with that kind of disease, is a partial or complete remission only.

If that's the case, the cancer can (and, sadly, often does) come back. It means, he's life is permanently changed which, in turn, means every day of his life will be so much more meaningful.

Good luck with your life, bro.

[Brodiaga]

Hey man, congrats beating cancer. Good health is the most important thing in life. The rest of the problems are insignificant in comparison.

[General Stalin]

(03-11-2016 03:42 PM)Kid Strangelove Wrote:  

So I ask you this RVF - have any of you dealt with something similar in your lives? What do you do? Do you think it's temporary? I'm willing to listen to all advice, and this forum has never steered me wrong before. Thank you in advance.

All the time. I'm too self-aware and socially conscious for my own good most of the time. I strongly dislike putting up with typical annoying girl shit and putting on an act to get into someone's pants.

I can't speak from personal experience as I've never done it myself I can only go off of what others say, but you may benefit from traveling to a place where women are more pleasant and easier to deal with. A place where a woman would rather you just be a firm and confident man of simple interest and intent than some entertainer who's supposed to the the most interesting man in the world. I could be wrong by just an idea.

I personally have put regularly gaming women and trying to get laid on the back burner for a bit and am going into monk mode myself. Focusing on getting my life, mind, and body right. It may do you some good to do a little more self-reflection and discovery on this new-found-you. Really think about what you want and how to get it.

[Aristotle]

(03-12-2016 05:55 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  

(03-11-2016 03:42 PM)Kid Strangelove Wrote:  

So I ask you this RVF - have any of you dealt with something similar in your lives? What do you do? Do you think it's temporary? I'm willing to listen to all advice, and this forum has never steered me wrong before. Thank you in advance.

All the time. I'm too self-aware and socially conscious for my own good most of the time. I strongly dislike putting up with typical annoying girl shit and putting on an act to get into someone's pants.

I can't speak from personal experience as I've never done it myself I can only go off of what others say, but you may benefit from traveling to a place where women are more pleasant and easier to deal with. A place where a woman would rather you just be a firm and confident man of simple interest and intent than some entertainer who's supposed to the the most interesting man in the world. I could be wrong by just an idea.

I personally have put regularly gaming women and trying to get laid on the back burner for a bit and am going into monk mode myself. Focusing on getting my life, mind, and body right. It may do you some good to do a little more self-reflection and discovery on this new-found-you. Really think about what you want and how to get it.

No disrespect intended, but some of you are babying him.

Beating cancer is a significant achievement, but let's be real here: He lives in one of the greatest cities in the WORLD. You can literally find a FOB girl from ANY country you want. It's like having an all-you-can-eat BUFFET of women, foreign AND local. They come in every flavor. NYC does not require "clown game" to be successful. It's one of the easiest cities to run "deep game" (for lack of a better term), because many of the women drawn to NYC are artistic, ambitious, and have a thirst for life. Are their typical millennial cunts? Sure. But they exist in Brazil, Poland, and Russia too. If he can't find women who he can enjoy his company of sans clown game, he's either gaming the wrong girls or not following my above advice.

You will find FOB girls to be much more receptive, on average, to "natural" game than American girls. But don't let that dissuade you if you like born and raised beauties---I promise, plenty of NYC women who were born in the US will be attracted to natural game as well.

Again, no disrespect meant to anyone, Strangelove included. But his post seems to be requesting advice, not sympathy, so I think as men we should strive to minimize the "you're so brave" and maximize "Here's where you can go now."

Just my 2 cents.

[WanderingSoul]

Glad to hear it man.

Enjoy your life!

[RatInTheWoods]

Gratz on beating the big C

Life is sweet, you just got a reminder....

[262]

Not sure how much traveling OP has done, but if not, that could help.

It doesn't have to be about women, but as we know, water takes the shape of the container it fills: http://www.rooshv.com/the-true-nature-of-women

[Kid Strangelove]

Hey guys, thank you very much for taking the time to answer and give me some advice. I really appreciate it.

The long and short of it is - I'm facing a lot of new stuff, and I havent fully understood how to process it yet. But hey, that's what life is - a series of unknowns, and just when you think you have it all figured out, some new stuff drops in your lap.

I have been opening up myself up to a lot of new experiences, travel included, and at times it really seems like I'm living that Jim Carey movie "Yes Man".

I guess we'll just see what happens next.

One thing's for certain though - I am happy to be alive