I think this is a great topic, with some solid replies, and of interest to those men who may have tired of playing the game and have found a special one.
A. To Control or Not?
Some points regarding the relative philosophies, which have been reduced to dichotomies for ease of expression:
"Do not try to control her--you cannot change a woman, this will backfire, you chose poorly, I am secure in the relationship, I am ready to next [refs 1,2]".
vs
"Demand she doesn't go, set the boundaries, lay down the law."
If you a wholly unconcerned about the behaviour of your LTR when you are not around, then you may
> Have chosen well -- the ultimate solution here -- and reached a point where you fully trust her, and/or
> Be a master of self-control and detachment despite your involvement, and have a zen-like "let it be" attitude, a strong sense of abundance anf the genuine ability to walk away, and/or
> Had her around so long you just don't give a sh*t. As Louis CK, says, "Ah, f*ck it" [ref 3], or
> Have a different definition of an LTR (mine is "a substantial, ongoing, emotionally-involved, and largely if not wholly committed relationship, and ideally is a prospect for mother of future children"),
That said, in a general sense whilst having the serious capacity to walk away is critical to your own mental health and to her level of respect for you, IMO the ability to calmly negotiate your own needs and set measures of respect is also important, as is the assessment of her needs and then doing what you can to reasonably fulfill them.
If you think that trying to control/influence a woman is a fruitless endeavor, or that it could backfire, then i would say that you are right, but only partially right. Depending on the person, trait and environment, certain behavioural traits in adulthood can be predicted in childhood whilst others may be altered even in old age [ref 4]. Therefore, it can be helpful to make an assessment of her specific behavioural plasticity; can she change?
In my mind, throwing up your hands in resignation means a few things:
(i) taking a passive role in the relationship which, to me, is a feminine trait, (ii) similarly, failing to recognize that -- as men -- we have to be the leaders during most of the relationship, and (iii) women and men test each other in so many conscious and subconscious ways throughout relationships to see what they can get away with, to see what the other person will give them, to see what makes their partner happy; women will adapt their behaviour based on your response.
[The same goes for men. if you had a super GF that you wanted to marry, and she was ok with you drinking or she wasn't ok with you drinking, you would most likely continue/modify your behaviour accordingly. Of course some guys would continue doing whatever they were doing, but then again others would comply with their awesome GF, because she most likely has complied with your requests by this stage too. Compromise is a scary word for some but is the reality of most serious, loving and mutually-respectful relationships].
Alternatively, if your insecurity is driving your controlling behaviour and if you are not providing her with a sense of self-autonomy, then you are likely to suffer both a weakened bond and defying, contrarian resistance.
Now, all decisions are best made in context:
B. Contextual Factors
- Her personality and drinking habits? If she is introverted, emotionally stable [ref 5], self-actualised and doesn't enjoy drinking that much, it is less likely for her to get involved in alcohol-based attention- and dick-seeking compared to a girl who is a party person, bipolar, in need of external validation and tends to binge. Now, these personas are somewhat exaggerated however such a personality profile can serve to gauge your response to her intent to "have a drink with friends".
- On that note, and more importantly, have you chosen poorly and are hanging on due to a lack of abundance, established routines, and a sad, sorry, emotional attachment? Are you dating a low-class, loose woman that disrespects you? This can be very difficult to ask yourself, but really must be done for your own sake in the long term. If so the best solution may be the most simple: IMMEDIATE BYEBYE. Prevention is the best cure or, put another way, if your GF likes getting drunk in clubs then it's probably a bad decision and time to next.
- How old is she? The older she is, the harder to change her behaviour (generally).
- How old is your relationship? If she has already expressed the undesired behaviour several times since you met, it will harder to change her behaviour; the sooner you set the frame of your relationship the better.
- How serious is your relationship? if she is really attached to you, she will be willing to give up certain things to please you. If she is not that involved, she won't sacrifice much for you; over time, with increasing attachment, you can ask for more and more investment.
Reconciling this with the previous point may be difficult at times; sometimes you will want to explain something verbally and directly but may feel you lack the sufficient level of compliance. Some tips here:
1. Lead by example; and show, don't tell. If you don't want her out drinking, then don't go out drinking. If you want her to hit the gym, then hit the gym several times per week. If you want to trust her, show her you are trustworthy.
2. Tell stories about 3rd-parties, use hints, explain your ideas with implicit references, use your body language; try to avoid stating it directly. Sometimes less is more. For example, it is possible to punish a girl for a minor infraction of poor behavior simply through your non-verbal facial expression of disapproval, and nothing more.
3. If you need to address it directly, do it without emotion on your behalf, but engage hers. E.g., consider putting her in your shoes; have her imagine you going out, getting drunk and then stumbling around a nightclub. If she agrees that she dislikes that image then she will be more likely to agree with her not hypocritically engaging in that behavior.
Alternatively, set some guidelines (e.g., you are comfortable with her occasionally getting drunk at a restaurant but not in a club), however do it without any direct threats, ultimatums or "musts"; she should ideally implicitly know that you will not tolerate disrespect, that you are socially proofed and could have options if you wanted, and therefore... You can WALK =). [ref 1, 2]
But most of all...
When it comes to investing your time, energy and resources into one woman, I suggest you choose carefully and don't rush into it.
C. References
[1, 2] Gang Starr - Ex Girl to Next Girl
K Camp - Cut Her Off (Remix) ft. Too Short, YG, Lil Boosie
[3] Louis CK: "F*ck it
[4] Roberts, Brent W., Kate E. Walton, and Wolfgang Viechtbauer. "Patterns of mean-level change in personality traits across the life course: a meta-analysis of longitudinal studies." Psychological bulletin 132.1 (2006): 1.
Quote:Quote:
"People tend to become more socially dominant, conscien-
tious, and emotionally stable through midlife. Moreover, the pe-
riod of young adulthood rather than adolescence is the primary
period of mean-level personality trait development. We also pro-
vided definitive evidence for the continued plasticity of personality
traits beyond age 30 and well into old age in the case of specific
traits, such as social vitality, agreeableness, conscientiousness, and
openness to experience."
LINK:
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Bre...000000.pdf
[5] Roberts, Brent W., et al. "The power of personality: The comparative validity of personality traits, socioeconomic status, and cognitive ability for predicting important life outcomes." Perspectives on Psychological Science 2.4 (2007): 313-345.
Quote:Quote:
"When so aggregated, the effect of Neuroticism on divorce was .17 (CIs = .12 and .22), the effect of Agreeableness was − .18 (CIs = −.27 and −.09), and the effect of Conscientiousness on divorce was −.13 (CIs = −.17 and −.09)."
LINK:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4499872/
[6] These are some great posts (LINK in the green arrow for the full post)-
Quote: (03-09-2016 11:01 PM)TooFineAPoint Wrote:
Modern, young, non-religious girls think it's totally normal to have "platonic" male friends and drink with mixed groups at night, while still being in a relationship....
Quote: (03-09-2016 01:37 AM)Deepdiver Wrote:
I learned a long time ago that telling American women anything is likely to result in the undesired behavior....
![[Image: banana.gif]](https://rooshvforum.network/images/smilies/new/banana.gif)
![[Image: potd.gif]](https://rooshvforum.network/images/smilies/new/potd.gif)
