[Sgt]

I don't have any information to give but I would be interested in what the current mood is like in Crimea, two years after the annexion.

In the summer of 2014 I had the chance to speak to a nurse working in Germany whose family is from and still lives in Crimea. She seemed content and said that the people were...

• happy about the changes because of economic reasons - pensions multiplied, and they got to use the much more stable Ruble (10-12% inflation) than the Hryvnia (25-45% inflation), and that...
• changes were moving forward very quickly - everyone had russian passports issued, ukrainian official signs had quickly been exchanged with russian signs, the ferry to Russia started running regularly etc.
  

These are very superficial things however, and now almost two years have passed - what I really wonder about is what the general mood is like? Is it more a...

• Spirit of a new beginning - where people are entrepreneurial, are eager to start things and look forward to the future
• Sense of uncertainty - where people are worried about their future, the young people are leaving, and the remaining people are more defensive and maybe not very trustful of (non-russian) foreigners
• disappointment - something like: the revolution has happened, but life still goes on with it's daily chores - leaving people in a low spirit, because they had expected more from the historical event of secession
• defiance in the face of difficulties - where there is a lot of conviction that they are on the right side, even though things are very difficult in day-to-day life
  

Searching for information, the most current problem seems to be as basic as fulfilling the power consumption needs of the crimean population:

Quote:

Residents of Crimea are facing several more months of blackouts after being asked to choose between energy shortages or signing an electricity supply contract that defines the peninsula as part of Ukraine.

Quote:

The Black Sea peninsula remains overwhelmingly dependent on Ukrainian energy and water supplies.

Supplies were previously interrupted in November, when power lines carrying electricity from Ukraine were cut in an apparent act of sabotage.

The subsequent “energy blockage,” was supported by Ukrainian nationalist and Crimean Tatar activists who had previously attempted to cut commercial goods traffic into the peninsular to highlight the treatment of Tatars since the 2014 annexation.

The disruptions left up to two million people without power and prompted the Russian-backed local authorities to declare a state of emergency.

Russia is laying undersea energy cables across the Kerch Strait, but it could be several months before supplies are fully restored.

Meanwhile, Russia closed its borders to Ukrainian food imports on Friday.

This leads me to the assumption that "defiance" could be the most defining trait right now. Has anyone been there in the past few months and experienced what the mood is like?

[Krieg]

Whaaat?This is just hilarious.

Some of my family lives in Crimea.I am myself from a place just 2 hours drive away.I know Crimea through and through as I holidayed there since childhood. I know the people and the mood there.

1)All small to mid size business is dead. Sevastopol turned from a lively rich city under Ukraine to a ghost city aka Detroit.

Here is the video,1 week old:

Everything is dead,businesses are for sale.

2)Crimea has always been a very poor region of Ukraine surviving on subsidies from Ukrainian budget. They did quite good money there in good times (under Ukraine) from tourism.The taxation was very lax, people were ok as black economy thrived.

Now under Russia there is no tourism but there is more taxation and more corruption.

3)Redistribution of wealth: russian officials got fat pieces of land near the sea and people don't have access to beaches in many cases any more.

4)Most of young motivated Crimeans (students etc) moved to Ukraine,some to mainland Russia.Peninsula is dying

5)Russia is unable to supply Crimea with basics( electricity, food,water).Electricity is given 4-6 hours a day only,Africa style.

6)Average salary in Crimea now is 22k RUB which is approx $270.This is less then in major cities in Ukraine. The prices for food and so on at the same time are much higher then in Ukraine,as Ukraine remains to be the largest producer of agricultural products in the region.

Whatever Russia "annexes" turns into a wasteland. Beatiful german Kenigsberg turned into horrible Kaliningrad,Finnish Karelia ,Northern Korea...more recent examples: Abkhazia, mob state Transnistria, dangerous empty and mob run Donbass. This is the fact, irrelevant to one's political inclinations.
Why?This is another topic.

[Sgt]

Thanks for the reply, Krieg. Yeah, the nurse I spoke to, that was in the summer of 2014 - and she wasn't living in Crimea herself anymore, so I guess it was still unclear to her or her family how things would play out.

(02-14-2016 05:19 AM)Krieg Wrote:  

5)Russia is unable to supply Crimea with basics( electricity, food,water).Electricity is given 4-6 hours a day only,Africa style.

Sad to hear the situation is that bad.

Also since you mentioned Königsberg, my great-grandfather was from there - we don't have any connection to it anymore, but at times when I think about emigrating, I like to wonder about how things are over there, and if it might be a potential destination for me.
Since I'm not 100% location independent business-wise and I'm making good money here it was always just a pipe dream, and I guess it's good that way - I might just have chosen a place in Russia to relocate to

[Foolsgo1d]

And people think Syrians will return to Syria after Russia stomped all over the place.

[Samseau]

Quote:

2)Crimea has always been a very poor region of Ukraine surviving on subsidies from Ukrainian budget. They did quite good money there in good times (under Ukraine) from tourism.The taxation was very lax, people were ok as black economy thrived.

Is tourism suffering just in Crimea or in most places now that war/mass invasions have broken out all over the Mediterranean?

[Going strong]

(02-14-2016 09:18 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

Quote:

2)Crimea has always been a very poor region of Ukraine surviving on subsidies from Ukrainian budget. They did quite good money there in good times (under Ukraine) from tourism.The taxation was very lax, people were ok as black economy thrived.

Is tourism suffering just in Crimea or in most places now that war/mass invasions have broken out all over the Mediterranean?

Tourism has been suffering in beautiful Crimea, yes, but one has to think medium-term here, and be optimistic... In any case, this coming Summer, with terrorism-hit Egypt and Turkey out of question, and almost forbidden to them, it is very possible that many young, middle-class or provincial Russian women will head for Crimean beaches (motivated by patriotism, also), like in the good old times.

[Going strong]

(02-14-2016 05:19 AM)Krieg Wrote:  

Whaaat?This is just hilarious.

Some of my family lives in Crimea. I am myself from a place just 2 hours drive away.

Translation:

"I am from Kherson and am furious that Ukraine lost Crimea. Please take everything I write about "hellish" Crimea with a pinch of salt."

[Krieg]

(02-14-2016 09:18 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

Quote:

2)Crimea has always been a very poor region of Ukraine surviving on subsidies from Ukrainian budget. They did quite good money there in good times (under Ukraine) from tourism.The taxation was very lax, people were ok as black economy thrived.

Is tourism suffering just in Crimea or in most places now that war/mass invasions have broken out all over the Mediterranean?

This is absolutely unrelated. Ukrainian tourists made up the majority of visitors-they do not go there any more. Also,the only way to get to Crimea from Russia by land now is through Kuban-Kerch (on a ferry) and it's very long trip and very tiresome one too (one must see the Russian roads once in a lifetime to realize this). And air travel is limited too+it's very expensive.

[Krieg]

(02-14-2016 10:59 AM)Going strong Wrote:  

(02-14-2016 05:19 AM)Krieg Wrote:  

Whaaat?This is just hilarious.

Some of my family lives in Crimea. I am myself from a place just 2 hours drive away.

Translation:

"I am from Kherson and am furious that Ukraine lost Crimea. Please take everything I write about "hellish" Crimea with a pinch of salt."

For people like you I posted a video link.You can like Putin as much as you want but you cant deny that Crimea is not doing great under Russia.

I am not from Kherson, god forbid.. what a shit hole.

Quote:

many young, middle-class or provincial Russian women will head for Crimean beaches (motivated by patriotism, also), like in the good old times.

You really don't understand Russian mentality. Nobody will go to Crimea because of "patriotism". Money is the decision factor and Russians don't have any anymore. Maybe closed Turkey will add something,but it wont be significant.

[Going strong]

(02-14-2016 02:26 PM)Krieg Wrote:  

(02-14-2016 09:18 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

Quote:

2)Crimea has always been a very poor region of Ukraine surviving on subsidies from Ukrainian budget. They did quite good money there in good times (under Ukraine) from tourism.The taxation was very lax, people were ok as black economy thrived.

Is tourism suffering just in Crimea or in most places now that war/mass invasions have broken out all over the Mediterranean?

This is absolutely unrelated. Ukrainian tourists made up the majority of visitors-they do not go there any more. Also,the only way to get to Crimea from Russia by land now is through Kuban-Kerch (on a ferry) and it's very long trip and very tiresome one too (one must see the Russian roads once in a lifetime to realize this). And air travel is limited too+it's very expensive.

More lies from you, I see.

"air travel is... very expensive": Lots of quite low-cost Russian companies offering flights from Moscow (or St Peter) to Crimea.

I quote: "only way to get to Crimea from Russia by land now is through Kuban-Kerch (on a ferry) and it's very long trip and very tiresome one too (one must see the Russian roads once in a lifetime to realize this)"

You're out of luck: Russian roads from Krasnodar to the ferry-crossing point are actually well-maintained. Have you ever been on those roads?

[Krieg]

(02-14-2016 02:34 PM)Going strong Wrote:  

(02-14-2016 02:26 PM)Krieg Wrote:  

(02-14-2016 09:18 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

Quote:

2)Crimea has always been a very poor region of Ukraine surviving on subsidies from Ukrainian budget. They did quite good money there in good times (under Ukraine) from tourism.The taxation was very lax, people were ok as black economy thrived.

Is tourism suffering just in Crimea or in most places now that war/mass invasions have broken out all over the Mediterranean?

This is absolutely unrelated. Ukrainian tourists made up the majority of visitors-they do not go there any more. Also,the only way to get to Crimea from Russia by land now is through Kuban-Kerch (on a ferry) and it's very long trip and very tiresome one too (one must see the Russian roads once in a lifetime to realize this). And air travel is limited too+it's very expensive.

More lies from you, I see.

"air travel is... very expensive": Lots of quite low-cost Russian companies offering flights from Moscow (or St Peter) to Crimea.

I quote: "only way to get to Crimea from Russia by land now is through Kuban-Kerch (on a ferry) and it's very long trip and very tiresome one too (one must see the Russian roads once in a lifetime to realize this)"

You're out of luck: Russian roads from Krasnodar to the ferry-crossing point are actually well-maintained. Have you ever been on those roads?

To get to those roads you need to cross miles and miles of Russia.Only mad person will take the ferry too:

Plain ticket from Moscow to Sip in summer costs approx €100, expensive or not-its a personal choice. Planes fly to Spb,Rostov and Sochi,this is pretty much it might have forgotten something

[Going strong]

(02-14-2016 02:43 PM)Krieg Wrote:  

To get to those roads you need to cross miles and miles of Russia.Only mad person will take the ferry too:

Well, friend, thanks for the laugh... I mean, your words, spoken with some heavy Russian (or Ukrainian) accent: "Only mad person take ferry" - "mad person need cross miles and miles of Russia. Many bears!"...

Anyway, you don't need a ferry to cross into Crimea:

[PowerGame]

Russia made Russian YouTubers do trips to Crimea and make vacation there to promote the area.

Crimea became a prestige project, so they try to fix a lot..they spent a lot of money there and will do more.
If it's enough? I don't think so, but I doubt it will be better under the Ukrainian regime, which is economically collapsing.

Ukraine is doing everything to fuck with Crimea, also with
necessities that were provided by mainland Ukraine. Of course there is no Ukrainian vacation place anymore.. And of course Crimea suffers.

Russia is building news infrastructure until 2020, Ukraine dropped everything, of course you can't build that stuff in the sea overnight.

If I would live there I would have left, too. But I also would have left Ukraine.

Krieg you really know a lot of stuff, and you make good arguments, and I believe you that it's worse there than it would be without war or anything else. But your emotional Anti Russia stance just is not objective.

We all know it was strategically mandatory for Russia to have entree to the sea there, they were forced to that move and void is always filled.. And in that case unluckily like you say with corruption. But that doesn't mean the new Ukraine is not corrupt.

Some Turkey organisers are down 70% of booked vacations from Germany(we book months before we travel) , Russia has stopped them as far as I know. If the propaganda works the Russians will fill up Crimea with money in the next year's if a bigger war is prevented,because most parts of the huge turkey vacation spots will die out if these bigger two countries already decided to not go there again..

Russians could pay vacations in the same hotels as middle class Germans so I guess they will be able to pay booked flights that are especially for vacations in Crimea. Of course the poor won't travel, but they often work in hotels and lure more Russians of their region to places (on Greek Island Rhodes for example : one third Russians and half people of the work force, last year in my hotel rest was German and British )

[Roosh]

Kreig is a Ukrainian nationalist. I'd verify any information coming from him on Ukraine or Russia.

[DaveR]

(02-14-2016 02:32 PM)Krieg Wrote:  

You really don't understand Russian mentality. Nobody will go to Crimea because of "patriotism". Money is the decision factor and Russians don't have any anymore. Maybe closed Turkey will add something,but it wont be significant.

I think you're mistaking sovok/hohol mentality for what you think is Russian. Many of my middle-class Russian friends have taken holidays in Crimea during the past 18 months. I'm talking about people from Moscow and St. Petersburg who have the means to visit other countries like Bulgaria, France, Italy, Thailand, etc. Most of them have plenty of travel to such countries under their belts, but lately they took holidays in Crimea instead. Why would that be?

Russian patriotism is real.

[Orion]

(02-14-2016 05:19 AM)Krieg Wrote:  

Beatiful german Kenigsberg

Are you kidding me, Kaliningrad is beautiful.