[blacknwhitespade]

I have a single guy friend, in his 30s, successful in a good job, but when it comes to his romantic life, he is completely aimless on a heavy dose of bluepill. He's had a few relationships over the years, and countless rejections after 2-3 dates with dozens of women. Last night, he called and told me about a girl who rejected him after 3 dates, despite his success at getting lots of kino, including making out with her on each date. She even told him straight up that he'd messed up by asking for affirmation. I know exactly what his problem is. He telegraphs insecurity by telling girls weak stuff like "I like you, do you like me?" after just 1-3 dates. He lacks self-confidence because of so many rejections. He's reasonably attractive and good at early flirting and securing first dates, but he's way too logical and blunt in the way he talks to them and constantly seeks validation rather than just being the confident, unapologetic badass we all know a man needs to be.

Another issue: he's an Asian-American guy who worships American/white women, stuck in the idea that he'll officially get out from his Asian bubble by dating white women. I told him to date younger women with less experience or open his mind to his own ethnic community where he could probably be hooked up with sweet young poon through family, etc. but his white fever is obvious. I told him about the way I broke into international dating, how he could go to Asia, Eastern Europe, Latin America, but he balks at that also.

How do you talk to people like this? How do you awaken your friends and get them to unplug?? Asian guys on the forum, does this sound like you in the past? When I hear his failed dating stories, I feel like beating my head against a wall, I try to give him advice, but sometimes I'm afraid to be too blunt since I feel like I'm walking on eggshells since he does have self-confidence issues in this area of his life and is totally steeped in mainstream blue pill American doctrine.

[olive]

(12-08-2015 02:12 PM)blacknwhitespade Wrote:  

I have a single guy friend, in his 30s, successful in a good job, but when it comes to his romantic life, he is completely aimless on a heavy dose of bluepill. He's had a few relationships over the years, and countless rejections after 2-3 dates with dozens of women. Last night, he called and told me about a girl who rejected him after 3 dates, despite his success at getting lots of kino, including making out with her on each date. She even told him straight up that he'd messed up by asking for affirmation. I know exactly what his problem is. He telegraphs insecurity by telling girls weak stuff like "I like you, do you like me?" after just 1-3 dates. He lacks self-confidence because of so many rejections. He's reasonably attractive and good at early flirting and securing first dates, but he's way too logical and blunt in the way he talks to them and constantly seeks validation rather than just being the confident, unapologetic badass we all know a man needs to be.

Another issue: he's an Asian-American guy who worships American/white women, stuck in the idea that he'll officially get out from his Asian bubble by dating white women. I told him to date younger women with less experience or open his mind to his own ethnic community where he could probably be hooked up with sweet young poon through family, etc. but his white fever is obvious. I told him about the way I broke into international dating, how he could go to Asia, Eastern Europe, Latin America, but he balks at that also.

How do you talk to people like this? How do you awaken your friends and get them to unplug?? Asian guys on the forum, does this sound like you in the past? When I hear his failed dating stories, I feel like beating my head against a wall, I try to give him advice, but sometimes I'm afraid to be too blunt since I feel like I'm walking on eggshells since he does have self-confidence issues in this area of his life and is totally steeped in mainstream blue pill American doctrine.

Direct/Indirect?

Direct - talk to him.
Indirect - gift him one of TopGuy's books/videos/audiobooks. being on this site I would suggest one of Roosh's books - I keep seeing Bang/Day Bang books being pretty good.

Just be aware that you can't fix him. Noone can. You can just give him a push (as gentle or hard as you desire) but a push won't magiconvert a dead weight to a locomotive. He has to want it. Not only on this aspect of life but looking back 30+ years I know see some people prefer to stay in the bluepill world. We don't get to decide for them after all.

Another thing is sending him a few Top YouTube video links. A picture is worth a thousand words and a video is basically a million pictures linked so go figure it's power. Some star PUA doing in field pickup - he might go like I AM HAVING WHAT HE'S HAVING. then (after this opener lol) you can come in with the fix in your hand.

good luck


EDIT: How's my so-called indirect approach really indirect if you are to hand him a "Game" book/video?
It's not.
so here's the correction: just tell him something like dude you won't believe what I just found blah blah. you're basically sharing your shock (dude in video picking up unreal chicks in under 5 minutes) with him.
so you're not telling him wake the f up you wimp! he can't get mad at you...

[Svoboda]

Does he see you with your women?
If not, maybe take him around sometime, or go on a trip with him.

[blacknwhitespade]

(12-08-2015 02:21 PM)Svoboda Wrote:  

Does he see you with your women?
If not, maybe take him around sometime, or go on a trip with him.

He has, but we have drastically different tastes. We're the same age, but I mostly date women 5-10 years younger. I told him about my Latin American girlfriend and showed him pictures, he agreed that she's pretty, but he's just not into that culture or type of women. He mostly dates these run-of-the-mill 30something white women or the occasional Asian girl he deems exceptional/Americanized enough, or something. Our tastes and ideas of how to pursue women are like night and day.

[LINUX]

What's his goal? To fuck hundreds of women or to settle down with one who likes him?

[thoughtgypsy]

He has to want to unplug. My friend did it recently, but it was his choice. In the past, I've broached some red pill discussion with him, but I could tell he wasn't into it so I backed off. Then I would only get into it if he specifically asked, or something prompted it.

Examples:
He talked about having trouble saving.
"Why man, you've got a great salary, where's it all going"
'blah blah, and taking (his now ex gf) out for drinks and nice dinners every weekend'
"Dude I thought you told me she wants an 'equal relationship'. How often is she paying for you guys? That's not equal, she's not even cooking for you or anything."
'No... I'm usually the one who offers to pay... It's like... anyway' (looks around, changes subject)

A couple months later. Says he's having doubts about her.
"I think she's pretty cool man. I just don't like the pretending to be equal while getting you to pay part, but that's up to you."

A couple months later they break up. The day before he asked if I ever read "No more Mr. nice guy", which I heard was one of the early red pill books. So he read that, noticed some of the patterns now that the rose tinted glasses are off and is starting to open up to red pill ideas.

We met up for beers last weekend, and he tells me he's started seeing a new chick. She seems like the ride or die type- he said she already risked major consequences with her work in order to cover for him. He also started putting his foot down with work and made them understand that they can't expect him to work unreasonable hours anymore. I can't tell you how happy I was to see his transformation. Not only do I have a close friend who I can now realtalk with, but it's great to see a close buddy reach satisfaction in life.

All I did was gentle prodding along the way. Sometimes I bit my lip to endure snarky talk like "oh I could never do that, me and (ex's name) want an equal relationship", and I had to not say "I told you so" later. When he was having doubts, I would say something positive to start, then insert my doubts on the tail end of my point. But ultimately, it's his decision. When he's ready for it, he will make the move. When he does, you should be there to support him and help him overcome the voices that are trying to drag him back to the blue pill. And be there to celebrate when he's made the transition.

[blacknwhitespade]

(12-08-2015 02:43 PM)LINUX Wrote:  

What's his goal? To fuck hundreds of women or to settle down with one who likes him?

He wants to settle down with one.

[XPQ22]

It's hard if the desire doesn't come from within. I've tried to broach the topic of some of the ugly realities I've learned from online dating experiences with BP male friends, and they just don't _get it_.

The answer couldn't be that modern women's psychology allows them to flake on me after a first date where there was rapport and affection and went well from any normal outside observer's perspective, or say bitchy things to me via text before I've even met them, or just generally act cuntish, even though I don't behave that way to them. The conversations always circle back to stuff like "well maybe you're just having isolated bad experiences" or "maybe your childhood damaged you and you attract damaged people" or "you didn't do this or that for them" or "you didn't take them out to a nice enough place" or "you didn't spend at least three weeks chatting with them online getting to know them before meeting" or "you're not familiar enough with the principles of intersectional feminism to engage with a woman on her level" and so on.

I don't even bother bringing up my personal life anymore, because the blame for the bad experiences would always circle back to me. They're right in a way, I am to blame for not getting more lays because my game is sub-par. But they're right for the wrong reasons, in that they say in essence that the reason that these women didn't fall in love with me forever upon first meeting is that I didn't blue-pill them enough. Any other conclusion would be unthinkable and not sustainable in their worldview.

For the most part these are men who are married, or have been in just a couple LTRs with women they have pedestaled for most of their adult life, or terminally single. One guy flipped out at me and essentially said I was a creepy predator because I asked for the phone number of a barista I was chatting with in a coffee shop.

These guys are like 40 and they post selfies to Facebook with their LTR girlfriend in the picture like all the chodes do, as if to say "LOOK A WOMAN LIKES ME, LOOK AT WHAT I HAVE ACCOMPLISHED" while he's no where to be seen on her page, and they often post lame vague status updates like "Man may never understand the nature of women..." every time there's the slightest bit of drama in their little relationship...

I know many men like this who have huge social circles from which to meet people, decent enough jobs, and are of average attractiveness. They're essentially fine with just coasting and accepting whatever existence decides to shit out on their doorstep. They don't want to go red pill because they're content enough with their little lives and they feel there's no benefit worth the risk of radically changing their outlook. Even though they're, for the most part, unhappy to a greater or lesser degree (and often on happy pills of some type) the attitude is "Meh, this is life and it's good enough, I'd be more unhappy if I did anything different."

It seems something major and shocking often has to happen to snap one out of it - at least that's how it went for me.

[memcpy]

delete

[Off The Reservation]

(12-08-2015 02:12 PM)blacknwhitespade Wrote:  

he is completely aimless on a heavy dose of bluepill.

That's all you had to say. Find friends who inspire you because they have purpose. They don't have to be carbon copies of yourself but if you recognize aimlessness and it bothers you move on.

You know how a lot of financial books talk about hanging out with richer people if you want to learn to be more successful? Take the fundamental idea here and apply to this guy.

[UroboricForms]

(12-08-2015 05:40 PM)XPQ22 Wrote:  

It's hard if the desire doesn't come from within. I've tried to broach the topic of some of the ugly realities I've learned from online dating experiences with BP male friends, and they just don't _get it_.

The answer couldn't be that modern women's psychology allows them to flake on me after a first date where there was rapport and affection and went well from any normal outside observer's perspective, or say bitchy things to me via text before I've even met them, or just generally act cuntish, even though I don't behave that way to them. The conversations always circle back to stuff like "well maybe you're just having isolated bad experiences" or "maybe your childhood damaged you and you attract damaged people" or "you didn't do this or that for them" or "you didn't take them out to a nice enough place" or "you didn't spend at least three weeks chatting with them online getting to know them before meeting" or "you're not familiar enough with the principles of intersectional feminism to engage with a woman on her level" and so on.

I don't even bother bringing up my personal life anymore, because the blame for the bad experiences would always circle back to me. They're right in a way, I am to blame for not getting more lays because my game is sub-par. But they're right for the wrong reasons, in that they say in essence that the reason that these women didn't fall in love with me forever upon first meeting is that I didn't blue-pill them enough. Any other conclusion would be unthinkable and not sustainable in their worldview.

For the most part these are men who are married, or have been in just a couple LTRs with women they have pedestaled for most of their adult life, or terminally single. One guy flipped out at me and essentially said I was a creepy predator because I asked for the phone number of a barista I was chatting with in a coffee shop.

These guys are like 40 and they post selfies to Facebook with their LTR girlfriend in the picture like all the chodes do, as if to say "LOOK A WOMAN LIKES ME, LOOK AT WHAT I HAVE ACCOMPLISHED" while he's no where to be seen on her page, and they often post lame vague status updates like "Man may never understand the nature of women..." every time there's the slightest bit of drama in their little relationship...

I know many men like this who have huge social circles from which to meet people, decent enough jobs, and are of average attractiveness. They're essentially fine with just coasting and accepting whatever existence decides to shit out on their doorstep. They don't want to go red pill because they're content enough with their little lives and they feel there's no benefit worth the risk of radically changing their outlook. Even though they're, for the most part, unhappy to a greater or lesser degree (and often on happy pills of some type) the attitude is "Meh, this is life and it's good enough, I'd be more unhappy if I did anything different."

It seems something major and shocking often has to happen to snap one out of it - at least that's how it went for me.

This describes me (both my old self and how I see things now) and some of my friends/acquaintances perfectly. I had to go through some rough personal shit and one too many failed relationships to begin waking up to the reality of my situation. Human beings are naturally inclined toward taking the easy way out, toward mediocrity. They sugarcoat this ideology by calling it something nicer sounding, like "the path of least resistance". Most of them simply haven't been put in the position, by their own actions or the actions of others, to NEED to take a good long look at themselves and decide that something needs to change. Being red pill is a true mark of intelligence and character growth in my opinion. It can be awfully alienating at times, but the one comfort is knowing that you've grown more as a person through introspection and strife.

Its no coincidence that the one person in my life right now who I am able to exchange red pill ideas with has been through similar struggles. Same goes for all of us here.

[Dalaran1991]

Sadly you don't. Either he comes to you for help, or do not try at all to help him.

Too often trying to make people see the light just results in them shouting at you for blinding them.

I had 2 close friends, one red pil and the other as blue as the water can be. As I took redpill me and my RP buddy becomes closer and closer and we both tried to help him in subtle way (setting him up with girls, getting him out and about to sarge etc.) Not only did he fuck up all the chances we gave him but also resent us for making him uncomfortable.

He recently unfriended both of us after a nonesense FB dicussion where he lost it totally. And just the day before he was still asking me for help because he was depressed. Good riddance.

These nice guys can often resent you deeply inside but still try to play nice guy with you until they blow up.

That and the redpill is not for everyone. There's no guarantee he will be happier.

[thoughtgypsy]

The funny thing with these guys is, if you were to put them in Southeast Asia, within 6 months they'll become the same uncommitted butterflys they claim to resent.

Quote:

A man is only as faithful as his options - Chris Rock

The guys that play into the blue bill mindset do so because they're desperate to find a woman. They're insecure, and their desire to lock down a wife is because they think they can't find another one. As such, they let their women make the rules, and they bend over backwards to submit to their demands.

It is an admission that they can't keep a woman on their own terms, and that is why they resent the men that do. That is why you'll hear them fling passive aggressive snark your way. They only claim to believe in modern feminist style courtship to protect their ego. They're forced to beg, and deep down, they know it.

The difference between a blue pill mindset and a red pill mindset can be summed up in one sentence: I don't have to put up with this.

Until someone is willing to entertain that thought, they are beyond saving.

[Rawmeo]

You can't force anyone. Tell him to read this forum, but if he doesn't want, he will be blue pill all his life and probably settle down with the wrong woman. Just pray so he doesn't choose a girl who's a train wreck like a single mom or drug addict.
Does he bend down to other people's rules with it comes to friends?

[blacknwhitespade]

What is a good "starter" red pill blog/website/book that I could gently nudge his way? He's not going to be into hardcore PUA/Game stuff, and he would probably reject this forum and Roosh's stuff. Just something that can educate him on American dating dynamics, female psychology, and neo-masculine self-improvement. I was thinking maybe Rational Male or Dalrock, someone who breaks down what's wrong with modern western culture but is not as visceral as this forum. Any other recommendations?

[thoughtgypsy]

There are some books that are unintentionally red pill. The famous book Sperm Wars by Robin Baker is pure red pill, minus the commentary. The author is completely unaffiliated with any movement, he's just a biologist that studies human sexuality, pure and simple.

I haven't read it, but a good intro for a lot of guys seems to be No More Mr Nice guy by Robert Glover.

Sperm Wars

No More Mr Nice Guy

[XII]

(12-08-2015 02:12 PM)blacknwhitespade Wrote:  

I have a single guy friend, in his 30s, successful in a good job, but when it comes to his romantic life, he is completely aimless on a heavy dose of bluepill. He's had a few relationships over the years, and countless rejections after 2-3 dates with dozens of women. Last night, he called and told me about a girl who rejected him after 3 dates, despite his success at getting lots of kino, including making out with her on each date. She even told him straight up that he'd messed up by asking for affirmation. I know exactly what his problem is. He telegraphs insecurity by telling girls weak stuff like "I like you, do you like me?" after just 1-3 dates. He lacks self-confidence because of so many rejections. He's reasonably attractive and good at early flirting and securing first dates, but he's way too logical and blunt in the way he talks to them and constantly seeks validation rather than just being the confident, unapologetic badass we all know a man needs to be.

Another issue: he's an Asian-American guy who worships American/white women, stuck in the idea that he'll officially get out from his Asian bubble by dating white women. I told him to date younger women with less experience or open his mind to his own ethnic community where he could probably be hooked up with sweet young poon through family, etc. but his white fever is obvious. I told him about the way I broke into international dating, how he could go to Asia, Eastern Europe, Latin America, but he balks at that also.

How do you talk to people like this? How do you awaken your friends and get them to unplug?? Asian guys on the forum, does this sound like you in the past? When I hear his failed dating stories, I feel like beating my head against a wall, I try to give him advice, but sometimes I'm afraid to be too blunt since I feel like I'm walking on eggshells since he does have self-confidence issues in this area of his life and is totally steeped in mainstream blue pill American doctrine.

Some unsolicited advice about unsolicited advice: don't give unsolicited advice.

In my experience you can be empathic and say 'Uh huh that sucks' whenever they get shat on, but beyond that there's nothing you can do.