[StrikeBack]

It took 4 years for me to see results physically, with regards to attracting women, but mentally it benefited me from day one and still is the main thing.

Still, I just look like an in-shape guy in normal clothes, so it would take other parts of my Game to attract women, but women like what they see more at the pool, on the beach or in bed, shoulders and glutes particularly

Usually if you haven't seen significant results, I'd say you're not lean enough yet. I've been there.

[Cr33pin]

Get out of here with that BS. Other members have explained it well enough that I don't have to add to it.

But similar to what Mentavious mentioned. About 2 weeks ago I posted a pic of me in my fucking underwear when I was at my biggest size in Peru on Facebook. An bitches I haven't talked to since high school started hitting me up.

Make whatever kind of excuses you want, flip it however you want, but girls like nice bodies just like guys like nice bodies on girls...

[AnonymousBosch]

(11-03-2015 01:37 PM)RioNomad Wrote:  

But this has been debated over and over again on this forum. Guys who don't really lift will always try to justify it by saying stupid shit like "girls don't like bodybuilders!" and other weak arguments.

Exactly. All guys who say this weak shit need to experience being north of 100 kgs / 220lbs to see just how laser-focused on your physicality chicks become, and how even a simple twitch of your forearm during a conversation instantly captures her gaze. I can turn on a girl by slowly loosening my tie and undoing my top button, showing her my neck.

If you're not seeing decent gains in two years, get a trainer and a dietician to teach you how to do it properly.

This shit always sounds like Big Baller Trolling but it's just how it is, and I'm sure any other big guy understands what I'm saying.

Sure, I did well with women at 87 kilos / 191 lbs, with an athletic runner's build. Things started getting pretty wild around 100 kgs / 220 lbs.

At 112 / 246, I'm treated like a rock star by both men and women. I'm now always 'the Chief', 'the Boss', 'the Big Guy'; women are very aware of me being their immediate vicinity and sneak looks at my body; I quickly gather female orbiters and stalkers on any social media site; I get frequent random offers of no strings sex; I have girls opening me by saying 'take me home and fuck me!'; they openly flirt with me in front of their boyfriends who just eat shit with weak smiles; there's constant touching of my body by women during any conversation for emphasis; groups of school girls and Asian women will stare and giggle as I walk past; old ladies get very girlish when I talk to them; girlfriends tell me I'm getting 'too big', yet clutch at and explore every inch of my biceps and pecs and lats and glutes as I plow them; and every girl I've ever known keeps telling me how amazing I look for my age.

People clearly recognise you're a winner and want to be in your sphere of influence. You really have to experience this to understand it.

A mate recently said how he couldn't get over how I would sit on the couch, with my feet on the floor and my arm along the top of it, and my girl at the time would always scoot in and tuck herself right against my body as I talked to him. He was really pissed about this because she'd be constantly playing with my chest, arms and stomach even though I (deliberately) never put my arm around her - I'm big, she only needs to feel in my sphere to feel safe and protected by me, rather than being constantly-pawed at. Yet when he tried to cuddle his girl, she'd be uncomfortable with too much touching by him. This had really gotten to him, for some reason. He accused me of treating her 'bad'. I said "No, I'm letting her feel submissively-adoring. She gets to be a happy, purring kitten."

He'll never get it, 'cause he doesn't want to lift.

Keep working out guys. One day you'll pass the transition point, and you'll suddenly-understand.

Me back at 108 / 238 earlier this year, a size that people are telling me with a straight face is obviously too big to ever experience the loving touch of a woman, since girls don't like bodybuilders:



*Day game - beach / gym / club / bar / shopping - is the BB's natural home. Phone apps / online dating are more hit and miss, as they tend to attract the messed-up girls who can't compete in the real dating world, so you're constantly-battling their insecurity that you're out of their league.

[Cr33pin]

Great post (and gainz) AnonymousBosch
How old are you? If you don't mind revealing you age.

[Khan]

It also depends on the perspective.

Consider an average looking guy who doesn't lift, but has good game. Assume he gets 10 notches per year. Hitting the gym and bulking up will for sure get him more attention from girls, maybe giving him another notch or two.

Now consider an average looking guy who doesn't lift, and has no game at all. Assume he gets 0 notches a year, and can't get over his one and only college girlfriend who cheated on him. Hitting the gym and bulking up will get him the same level of attention from girls like the first guy, also giving him an opportunity to bang one or two additional girls per year, solely because of his looks and basic self-confidence gained by improving his physique.

For the first guy, there is little difference. He's basically the same guy with women, and bangs 12 girls per year instead of 10. He'll look back and say "physical appearance is secondary, game is what counts to get girls".

For the second guy, the difference is enormous. He now bangs 2 girls per year instead of 0. He'll look back and say "game is important but physical appearance is also important, if not more important than game itself for a newbie".

Therefore I'd say that weightlifting really is very important for us game newbies. The confidence gained in the gym could be just what you need to get over your approach anxiety. It's much easier to approach when you've already appeared on the girl's radar simply by being tall and strong.

Not to mention the health benefits of weightlifting, but that's another matter completely. I'll just say this: physically strong people get injured less, get sick less, and live longer/die less than physically weak people. For some, that might be the only motivation they need to hit the gym and start developing their physique.

[RichieP]

It's a component of attractiveness, and it makes things easier if you're doing the fundamentals. Approaching escalating vibing leading etc.

Also deters losers from messing with you.

But by itself it does nothing. Like new wheels + paintjob on a car with no engine.

Anonymous Bosch: I've seen dudes as big and bigger than you with absolutely no game, standing around getting nothing. Parked up by the bar looking frustrated/confused that their godlike physiques arent magnetically sucking the girls towards them.

You're obviously smashing it, but I'd bet you're doing some fundamental social things right too and obviously have a dominant frame. So it's arguably an amplifier more than anything.

[Cr33pin]

(11-04-2015 04:19 AM)RichieP Wrote:  

It's a component of attractiveness, and it makes things easier if you're doing the fundamentals. Approaching escalating vibing leading etc.

Also deters losers from messing with you.

But by itself it does nothing. Like new wheels + paintjob on a car with no engine.

[H1N1]

I don't think anyone would doubt the effectiveness of being big strong and lean. However, the OP, as far as I can tell, was questioning whether it is as immediately effective as everyone suggests given how long it takes to get meaningful results. Bosch, you're obviously a big and impressive guy, but I assume it is fair to say it has taken you a long time to get that big at that size? I don't think anyone with a functioning relationship with reality would deny the fact that big guys do well with chicks.

I think the point though is that it is not a 'quick fix', as is often suggested. Serious gains, and the benefits with chicks that they bring, are going to take 2-5 years of sufficiently intense training and careful eating. To my mind, and as far as my understanding of the question goes, it is reasonable to suggest that there are much faster ways of improving your success with women. None of that is to suggest you shouldn't also work out and get as big and strong as possible and reap the benefits of that when you get there. Again, from my understanding of the original question, the OP was not suggesting that lifting weights isn't effective, or that it's something you should forgo, merely that it will take a long time to reach a point where the results are so obvious that they start to do some of the work for you.

I would agree with the OP, if I am correct in understanding his question, that the short-medium term benefits of weight training are mostly confined to what they do for your confidence and athletic performance, and that being able to pick up chicks because of your standout physique is a much more long term thing.

[Fortis]

Don't agree. In China, muscles go FARRRRRR. Most Chinese dudes are super skinny so looking like you lift in China puts you far out in front of these guys. I'm small at 152 and 5'8 but people here regularly remark that I look strong and muscular without me mentioning the gym.

I imagine it only gets better the more muscular you are in a place like China.

[H1N1]

(11-04-2015 05:47 AM)Fortis Wrote:  

Don't agree. In China, muscles go FARRRRRR. Most Chinese dudes are super skinny so looking like you lift in China puts you far out in front of these guys. I'm small at 152 and 5'8 but people here regularly remark that I look strong and muscular without me mentioning the gym.

I imagine it only gets better the more muscular you are in a place like China.

The Chinese have a great phrase for big guys who can't back it up: they call them 'King Kong Barbies' (pinyin - JinGang Babi), blokes who have big muscles and look the business, but who can't back it up when the time comes.

[Thomas the Rhymer]

(11-03-2015 11:20 AM)RexImperator Wrote:  

In a lot of threads I see posts guys giving advice to "hit the gym" and of course you absolutely should, for health reasons, both mental and physical, but I believe the benefits, as far as attracting women, tend to be exaggerated. Especially given the time horizons involved.

(FYI I've been lifting weights for over two years.)

It may also depend on your baseline status.

When I started lifting, I saw very rapid improvements (within 3 months) in my attractiveness, but before I hit the gym I was a skinny-fat slob and recovering computer game addict (which gave me a hideous perma-slouched shoulder posture). By 3 months (of using Stronglifts 5x5) my posture improved dramatically and the fat was visibly starting to reduce.

If you are already pretty athletic, I agree, weightlifting may not be enough of a stimulus on your body; but if you don't regularly exercise then the initial 6 months are a fun blast of newbie gainz, and if you are a desk jockey then the difference can be dramatic, although it will mostly manifest in better posture and bearing and decreasing pant size rather than in muscularity.

[Moma]

(11-04-2015 05:06 AM)H1N1 Wrote:  

However, the OP, as far as I can tell, was questioning whether it is as immediately effective as everyone suggests given how long it takes to get meaningful results.

The thing to remember is that there are no shortcuts to game. Rudebwoy and myself had a discussion about this maybe two months ago as to why there is so much resistance to lifting and the bottom line is, many people especially the younger generation are lazy. People want to use Tinder cos it's easy, you just flick your finger (and even that might be too much for some people). Everyone looking for hacks. This is a generation of instant gratification and so guys can't be bothered to do the thing and do it right.

Even to those physique denialists, I assume we can safely agree that the better you look, the easier it is to game. Someone is going to say they know a model looking like Cristo Ronaldo who can't get no girls (I won't bother to answer that, I will say read the archives).

People usually say that weightlifting doesn't work because they have an aversion to hard work. They just want to copy and paste some willing formula that does all the work while they reap. No such thing. That's make believe.
White, black, yellow, green or purple..lizards like a fit body.

Unless the OP has some unfortunate muscle wasting disease, I'd would like to know why he hasn't improved significantly in 2 years. I want to see a worklog, nutrition log down to the very T. A lot of guys go to the gym and lift half heartedly, all sending texts and moving at an average pace and then yowl that there are no results. It's a combination of mediocre work in the gym AND/OR not following up with clean nutrition to feed and repair the broken down muscles.

I started working out again when I was in uni with a couple of the lads and in half a year, I had all sorts of eyes on me. More importantly, my mates were very competitive to an obsession and it became a battle in the gym to go hard every time we went. If someone shied away from a particular exercise (one of my mates loathed bodyweight pullups), we would call him a pussy and say he's not really ready. His manhood would rage inside him and he would immediately jump up and murder the exercise.

Another great thing about having a good, muscular body is that it works auxilliary game. This means even when you are not even out to game, you are just out disposing some trash or buying some water from CVS, your body is working for you. A lizard that may be a bit horny that sees you may decide to bite the bullet on seeing you and make herself obviously available for something sexual. All you have to do is collect.
When your body is crap or average (if average for you is not athletic as I know guys who are above average with just daily pushups and a little jogging or footie), you have to spit GAME everytime to build up reserves and collect.

For the disclaimer yet again, having a good body will NOT enable the lizard to drop in your lap and burrow single mindedly for your phallus, no matter how ripped you are, not on a regular basis.
You still have to put in work but the work needed will be reduced.

[Moma]

(11-04-2015 02:08 AM)AnonymousBosch Wrote:  

AnonymousBosch, your arms look potent as fcuk, bruv! Even through the shirt, they look like they are ready to unload on something. Thumbs up for that! How tall are you, bro?

[The Beast1]

Rex,

We've spent some time together in Boston and I want you to know there are two missing pieces to your puzzle (as they are with mine).

There's a bit too much body fat on your frame and you'll need to find a niche in style to succeed. Overall you're a solid dude and placed in the right venus you'd be able to score a solid LTR lady. You're a massive dude and look very strong. Trust me, size isn't your problem. It's the bodyfat %.

However for one night stands the variables a bit a different, the best times I have had in my life were when I reached around 10% bodyfat. My face was super cut. I also rocked a sort of hipster/J. Crew look being so skinny.

Now, obviously being much bigger things are different. I carry too much fat and it changes the way people approach you. I'd say start adding in some 15% incline walks on a treadmill for 30 minutes a day at a moderate pace. I think you'd be surprised how quickly you'd trim up.

As for style, you'll have to find something you're comfortable with. I still am finding my style niche.

Personally this has been my problem as well. Getting "big" and strong helped a lot with inner game but I want everything on easy mode. I still have to clown and be something I am not. I want the ability to walk in and just use looks to get what I want.

Not to mention as I've gotten older I have very little patience for the clown games of younger girls. I don't understand it how some of you guys pull it off. My game has gotten worse as I've gotten older.

Rex, it might benefit you to also consider leaving Boston as well. The town is super difficult. On par with the UK

Don't be discouraged, New England is a tough place.

[RexImperator]

Yeah, I'm aware of the fatness issue. Unfortunately, I can put on fat extremely easily. I think I can gain a few just by going into a Dunkin Donuts and breathing in the air. I've lost 20 since we hung out in June but gained 10 back. . A whole year of dropping weight starts to be a drag at some point.

I think H1N1 better explained what I was trying to express.

Anyway, if you've ever played in a band then weightlifting isn't even close, by my experience (so far). A few years ago, when I was also very much out of shape (skinny fat), I had women coming up and approaching me after shows. For doing nothing except playing guitar in a cover band. In comparison, lifting is much much harder.

[ThrustMaster]

Of course it isn't the only thing, but I'm here to tell you it sure makes closing much easier. When chicks you met online tell you after a first 4 hour session of howling sex "wow when I saw your pictures I was so intimidated, you look so hot - I wanted you the moment I saw you. I didn't even read your profile" you know that it was the initial hook.

What are your stats? 2 years is newb territory in lifters career.

(11-03-2015 11:20 AM)RexImperator Wrote:  

In a lot of threads I see posts guys giving advice to "hit the gym" and of course you absolutely should, for health reasons, both mental and physical, but I believe the benefits, as far as attracting women, tend to be exaggerated. Especially given the time horizons involved.

(FYI I've been lifting weights for over two years.)

[blck]

(11-04-2015 06:16 AM)H1N1 Wrote:  

(11-04-2015 05:47 AM)Fortis Wrote:  

Don't agree. In China, muscles go FARRRRRR. Most Chinese dudes are super skinny so looking like you lift in China puts you far out in front of these guys. I'm small at 152 and 5'8 but people here regularly remark that I look strong and muscular without me mentioning the gym.

I imagine it only gets better the more muscular you are in a place like China.

The Chinese have a great phrase for big guys who can't back it up: they call them 'King Kong Barbies' (pinyin - JinGang Babi), blokes who have big muscles and look the business, but who can't back it up when the time comes.

Rex you need to go to India to get drown in IRT pussy juice and get some motivation back !

More seriously what is the point of getting really big if you can't move or face some danger anymore, I got good result lifting weight but carrying my 8kg son in my arms more than 5mn felt like hell, shirts and suits wouldn't fit in shoulders and arms.

Right now I'm focusing on some more realistic kind of training.

[The Beast1]

(11-04-2015 09:59 AM)RexImperator Wrote:  

Yeah, I'm aware of the fatness issue. Unfortunately, I can put on fat extremely easily. I think I can gain a few just by going into a Dunkin Donuts and breathing in the air. I've lost 20 since we hung out in June but gained 10 back. . A whole year of dropping weight starts to be a drag at some point.

I think H1N1 better explained what I was trying to express.

Anyway, if you've ever played in a band then weightlifting isn't even close, by my experience (so far). A few years ago, when I was also very much out of shape (skinny fat), I had women coming up and approaching me after shows. For doing nothing except playing guitar in a cover band. In comparison, lifting is much much harder.

I think you just need to dial the diet in just right and keep on lifting.

And why the hell aren't you back in a band? That's the easiest way to score chicks. Women drool more for musicians than they do for muscle heads.

[britchard]

Where do you all think the tradeoff in muscle mass for body fat% should be? I don't think I've ever been above 15%BF in my life (other than when I was a small child). So obviously I have no experience of going above that, but from guys who have been both sides of the mark, they usually say close to 10% is the best.

[Hannibal]

That percentage is going to be different for everyone.

For a lot of guys, there is a grey area between 10-15%.

So if you cut down to 10% and bulk to 15%, that is a fairly sustainable range you can rinse and repeat.

Once you go beyond 15%, you start to look fat and you put on fat faster. You have to stay below 15% for a while before your body gets used to being lean(er). That is the body fat setpoint.

If you're wondering about how much muscle you need to look big based on your height, I know there's a chart on the internet somewhere but I can't find it. That would deserve it's own thread if anyone could find it.

[RexImperator]

Quote:

What are your stats? 2 years is newb territory in lifters career.

Well, all my lifts are down from PRs since losing weight. (I also had some injuries to deal with.) Bodyweight started around 215, bulked up to 250+, dieted down to 212, and now I'm 220ish.

My maxes last year were as I recall SQ 350x5, DL 415x5, BP 215x5, OHP 145x5. Now squat 1RM is probably around 290-300 if I had to guess. I had to stop doing those over the summer. Everything else is probably down about 10%, though I did manage 140x5 on the Military Press last week.

[RoastBeefCurtains4Me]

At least some level of lifting or physical labor or sports are necessary or you look wasted away. We all know there are too many fat guys, but if you go out in public where there are a lot of people, you'll see tons of guys with sunken chests and spindly shoulders. I think something like 60% of men have a major problem with this. Even if a guy is fat, he'll be better off with meaty muscles in the chest, shoulders, arms, and back. The lats are particularly important, because these are what give the V shape.
Yeah, it makes a big difference to be really big with a low body fat %, but at the very least, you have to lift enough to be decently filled in around the upper body.

Also, you need to be fit enough to have good strength and stamina. A man who works at a desk and doesn't lift is likely to get worn out just shoveling snow. You have to at least be fit enough to have athletic sex.

These things most certainly pay off in attractiveness, long before you become big and ripped.

Edit: Oh, and don't be one of those guys who skips legs day!

[Rush87]

IMO it depends on the country that you're in. I added 20lb of muscle over the course of around 5 years and that led to instabangs just on appearance alone [This is in Australia].

In contrast when I was in France - The increase in size had virtually zero impact. I was more or less the most muscular, in shape guy irrespective of what bar I entered and I had absolutely no advantage because if it.

I think it boils down to how masculine a countries women have become. Australia, UK and America have extreme levels of feminism, extremely masculine women, so naturally I would conclude that they look for a far more masculine partner to make them 'feel' more feminine.

It's a big reason why so many European guys who look good [But rather small to be fair] get blown out of the water here. They lack that real gym mentality which is a persistent theme in these sort of countries. Women have become used to the 'big' rugby player build.

This isn't a bad thing because the women are lizards and you won't want to poke them anyway, but thats my take on the situation none the less.

[AnonymousBosch]

(11-04-2015 02:26 AM)Cr33pin Wrote:  

Great post (and gainz) AnonymousBosch
How old are you? If you don't mind revealing you age.

Mid-forties.

My advice for young men: get in there now. The hard work you put in now will set you up for your thirties and forties. Each passing year your competition falls away. Most men have given up by their early-thirties. By forty, you become a Rock Star to women your own age.

The oldest woman I've dated in the last seven years was thirty. The youngest, seventeen.

(11-04-2015 04:19 AM)RichieP Wrote:  

Anonymous Bosch: I've seen dudes as big and bigger than you with absolutely no game, standing around getting nothing. Parked up by the bar looking frustrated/confused that their godlike physiques arent magnetically sucking the girls towards them.

Yeah, I know guys like this, and everyone points that out as evidence size doesn't attract. However, since I'm part of their lives rather than just observing them in bars, I notice how women pay more attention to them in everyday life, and how often they get randomly-opened by women affecting girlish behaviour, even if they're bad at following up on it. More often that not, I notice girls getting that look around them. That's when they're in a public place but they're so overcome by the physicality of a man that they're just staring at him, drinking him in, sizing him up, oblivious to their surroundings or the fact that anyone might be watching her watching him.

A mate was watching a Henry Rollins speaking show recently, and I had to laugh when they cut to a girl in the audience, with that look on her face.

A good mate of mine has zero game - too burnt by women's bullshit I think to care anymore. Six foot six and Built like a professional wrestler. Moved into a new house a couple of years back, and every woman in the street knows who he is. One neighbour brought in his washing during a dust storm, rewashed it for him, and turned back up with a basket to hang it up for him. Short summer dress, bending slowly over to pick up items from the basket, no underwear.

I'll often turn up and he's eating something homemade one of the neighbour women have just 'dropped around' for him. Roasted meals in Winter, cakes, cookies. Good thing his metabolism is killer or he'd be fat as hell by now. He's never mowed the lawn in two years - one of the neighbour women does his lawn for him when she's doing her own without him asking or expecting her to.

With another big mate / no game in a gym equipment store a couple of years back. I do all the charming with the assistant: a pretty, very-fit young blonde with a small baby bulge. She'd just gotten married, and talked about how they'd just moved to town, etc. My mate just glowers - he's a fighter with a broken nose and cauliflower ear - and has no idea how to talk with girls, so he goes to look at the equipment.

She eventually goes to show him the features of the machine he's looking at. "Oh, I'll show you how to adjust the weights". He just grunts. Chick bends over and backs her arse up right against his crotch and slowwwwly takes her time adjusting the machine. He shoots me a thumbs up, so I head outside to wait as they head towards the back room together.

Hell, I saw him once just flex his arm at a smokin' hot girl in running gear, yoga pants and headphones waiting to cross the road at a traffic light. She came over to the car and squeezed. He said "I'm at [address]. Come round after 5. I'll leave the back door open."

The light changed and he drove off and I was laughing at what a dickhead he was: "It's 2014. As if any woman in existence going to fucking turn up and just let herself into some strange blokes' house."

We got back to his place to work on his Charger, and time gets away from us. Dinner time is rolling around, so I jump in his shower to clean all the grease, dirt and oil off me. Halfway through the bathroom door opens and I hear a shy hello and a giggle. You guessed it...



I'd suggest you're judging them based on a few bar sightings and not seeing their full lives. Once you cross the size barrier where things start getting regularly-weird then you'll understand the levels a normal-looking woman will debase herself to be dominated by big muscle. Maybe Bodybuilding has its own Red Pill.

(11-04-2015 12:01 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

And why the hell aren't you back in a band? That's the easiest way to score chicks. Women drool more for musicians than they do for muscle heads.

(11-04-2015 06:59 AM)Moma Wrote:  

Unless the OP has some unfortunate muscle wasting disease, I'd would like to know why he hasn't improved significantly in 2 years. I want to see a worklog, nutrition log down to the very T.

^ Moma gets it. Two years of hard work is enough to pay off big time.

Height? Under six foot. 246 lbs is extreme enough that I now have to get all my dress shirts tailored, particularly to have any hope of being able to wear a tie with over half a metre of neck.

Keep lifting big man, no matter what they say, chicks dig size.

[N°6]

Allow me to contribute from the 'negative' angle.

My looks are around an 8, I am 6'3", a witty conversationalist who is often complimented about my dress sense and looks. I have my hair. I also have a decent professional job, two bachelor degrees and a master's, traveled widely and I sail.

In the Anglo dating market, the above traits would have given a man a good boost.

Yet I found myself in the same position that many men were in when they got into PUA. I did not have a lot of women in my life and those who were, I didn't really fancy them. They chose me because they had more choice than I did.

Looking back, I realise that what seemed to annul many of my positive traits was that I did not lift. My natural physique is lanky ectomorph. Time and time again I noticed the type of men who were with the women I genuinely fancied. They often did not have half of the traits that I have but they were clearly body builders.

In the UK, nearly ALL 8+ women are with men with fit physiques but not all men with good physiques are with hot women. We know the market in the UK is against men so body building is extremely important.

Not getting into it is a regret of mine especially when I consider the time, effort and money I invested in PUA.