[Valentine]

You need to read this: http://wallstreetplayboys.com/everything...-a-career/

I wouldn't recommend the oil sands because it doesn't build transferable skills if you want to start your own business later and pay isn't performance-based.

[Trill Clinton]

I've got to say I'm overwhelmed by all of the helpful responses. I wasn't expecting nearly as much and I really appreciate it. Thanks so much.

Sorry I wasn't able to respond faster I had an exam last night for a course I'm taking.

[Trill Clinton]

(07-02-2015 02:26 PM)rocksteady Wrote:  

I saved money (3 months cash, 4 months in investments) and I quit.

I'm spending the next six months trying to get my business going. If I fail, oh well, jobs aren't that hard to find. If I succeed, awesome. If I had stayed, I would have hated my life like I have the past 4 years.

It sounds like you don't know exactly what you want. Figure that out first, make a plan, and quit. Shit jobs are a dime a dozen. Don't sacrifice your health to make someone else rich.

This is true, it's not hard to find another bad job.

The only thing that worries me about quitting would be the gap in my resume when applying for jobs. I wouldn't be quitting to start a business (not ready for that yet) but rather to learn something that could help get a better job but I feel like employers expect you to do this while working regardless of how hard the new skill is to develop.

(07-02-2015 02:35 PM)RealDeal Wrote:  

40k a year is pretty decent for a single guy especially if you're still living at home.

It gets you almost nowhere in Toronto. If I wasn't living a pauper's life and staying with my parents I'd never save anything. Most of my coworkers who are close to my age are living paycheck to paycheck and save little to nothing.

(07-02-2015 02:53 PM)Bad Hussar Wrote:  

When you really have a tough job that is just a job rather than a career one strategy is to be almost schizophrenic about it. Try to cram the job into as little time as possible. Ideally work only 6 or 7 months of the year at the job, but work 60 or 70 hours a week. Best if you are paid overtime. Then for the remainder of the time you are free to do what you please.

I wish I could but I can barely get my shift switched for a couple of days (a a shift only 2 hours earlier) without getting 2+ levels of approval. It's awful.

(07-02-2015 02:51 PM)Yeti Wrote:  

The thing is that even if you escape a soulless job, there's always going to be market pressure on you in some way or another.

If you hate your boss now, you can quit and start your own business, but you'll have a different kind of boss - client demands, market pressure, etc.

So we all have to eventually understand that all jobs in the hyper-competitive modern capitalist system will wear you down on some days at least. The best route in my opinion is to try to find something that excites you - something from your childhood. A good book to check out is Robert Greene's Mastery. Then follow that path until you make a respectable income. A job that you like, that turns on something internal from your childhood, is an ideal toward which we should strive. I don't know if it's possible for everyone - some people just don't get very excited. What about career paths that don't make much money? Trust me man, if you like something and put your heart into it, the money will come. You'll think of things that others haven't.

I have a job that I like but I still don't want to go some days. If I didn't like my job I would probably quit.

I definitely have an idea of the kind of job I'd want. I want a job in data analysis/ data science eventually--I think it's a good field to be in, and I think that people in those fields get to work on engaging problems.

It's just hard to pivot into a job like that from my current job.

[Trill Clinton]

(07-02-2015 03:32 PM)Phoenix Wrote:  

Sounds like the typical story, you're definitely not a minority.

I think it's pretty fucked up that this stuff happens. You'd think the directions of parents and schools would be tailored to specifically avoid ending up in this situation. Alas most parents are stupid and most schools are corrupt.

Firstly, you're probably trapped in an energy well. You don't have the energy to escape because the work and the commute drains you too much, so there is little remaining time and energy to discover and work on a way out.

This describes my situation pretty well. There's a severe lack of energy after work (an this summer an evening class as well 2 days a week).

Although I can't really blame my parents, they're immigrants and neither one went to college here (I think my mom did back home), so they wouldn't know. They've been pretty good to me actually.

I think I could try to ask my sister to stay at her basement on weekdays but I've hinted at that before and the response has not been encouraging, ha. That would cut my commute down to about 50 minutes.

[Trill Clinton]

(07-02-2015 04:41 PM)SlickyBoy Wrote:  

What was your degree in? 25k isn't life crushing debt, but don't take on any more without a solid plan. I agree it sounds like you don't really know what you want. Not unusual for a kid borne of middle class parents who wanted "the best" for their children and of course, to "put them through college" without really having a plan for what "college" was supposed to offer.

I wouldn't write off the job skill part just yet - you say you have been there for two years? Do you know anything at all about your bosses job? Not that running a call center is the greatest of opportunities, but there are places in the Philippines that do that, and elsewhere. Any chance you could step up to learn what it is he does?

Take a challenge if offered, learn about it then who knows, you could be running something similar in the PI while banging 6s and 7s nightly. Might not be a permanent plan but hell man, you're only 24 - take some worthwhile risks already!

Barring that, it doesn't sound like there is much of a social or professional circle. Yes, I know there isn't much professionally going on in your current gig, but what are your interests? Find people who share that and link up with them. Got to start somewhere. See CH's 16 Commandments of Poon for related advice (yes, it also applies to your professional success - a total approach you need to adopt). Good luck.

I could ask for a job shadow with other parts of our office maybe, but to be honest it's not really a business I'd want to be involved in. I honestly feel bad for my supervisors and managers, I feel like they're even more trapped than I am.

Thanks for the suggestions and kind words!

[Trill Clinton]

Vacancier,

Hey man, so much for the in depth response.

I want to eventually be in a situation where I work with people as opposed to for them, so that would eventually entail starting a business.

Just right now I don't really have any great ideas, and I still want to build up a repertoire of skills and talents that I could use when I do start a business (with more money to spend on it too). That could be 5+ years from now. I feel like I just need to find away to get in a field where I'll do that on the job.

It's why I'm kind of leaning towards data analysis type roles as something I can do. It's technical enough, and I'd be learning on the job.

I'm also not sure if I'm ready to move across the world on my own. It's kind of embarrassing to say it but I don't think I'm ready to be that independent yet-- this I need to work on.

Then eventually if I do well enough, even if I don't have great business ideas I could one day just do independent consulting as opposed to working a job.

[Trill Clinton]

(07-02-2015 04:23 PM)Disco_Volante Wrote:  

I spent a few years in the oilfield, invested every penny in my own business ( a new rock imaging technology), and now I'm 28 and broke living in my mom's basement, trying to sell my technology to a drilling company (possibly for millions).

Basically I risked everything on a new proprietary technology for the oil field which may or may not pay off. I have sales calls and inqueries which change daily, so I never really know what will happen.

I look at it this way....
I knew I would be miserable working for someone else my whole life, even if it was a high salary in the oilfield. Either way you will have a routine and never really be able to buy everything you want.
So your question is more about you personally and not your job.

Do you want to be rich or do you just want a good job?

98% of people don't want to be rich or successful. They want to go to work, do what they're told, get a paycheck and go home. They dont want to take risks or sacrifice their lifestyle for a long-term gamble. They want holidays and paid vacations, and dont want their work to run their life. They dont want to think about big-picture strategies or risks, they just want to do what they're told. These are the types of people who bitch about CEO's making big money, but aren't willing to work 80 hours a week.

You are very young, are you willing to burn your prime years in the pursuit of more dollars? Or do you want to just focus on being happy and having a social life instead of chasing money?
So do you simply want a higher paying job? so you can do the 40-50 hour a week stability thing, just at a higher wage?


If you want to be an entrepreneur, your ENTIRE LIFE must revolve around your business and your money. that means no holidays, no 'living it up', probably no social life, etc.... 99% of people aren't willing to do this.

In my opinion you have 3 options.

1. stay where you're at, and get your happiness from social life, friends, and the simple things in life.

2. go back to school to be a physician assistant or nurse, so you would end up with a higher salary and slightly better lifestyle.

3. go balls to the wall, work 2- 3 part time jobs and stockpile cash over a few years to launch your own business in a few years. This is the most painful and you will waste your prime years chasing $$$, but only you know if youre willing to take that risk and sacrifice. This is basically what I did, except I stayed on oil rigs for 30-50 days in a row getting a fat dayrate. Basically 25 to 28 my life was sitting on drilling rigs in exchange for money. Even now I don't know if this will pay off for me or not.

For the time being, I really just want a better job that pays more. Can't honestly say I'm ready to start a business yet.

It might be that I need to go back to school and study something worthwhile.

Right now I'm taking some prereq courses that I'd need for a Masters in Statistics or Applied Math if I go that route, and I've got to make a big decision come September if I want to go back to school full time.

Appreciate the response man!

[Trill Clinton]

I've got to leave for work but when I get back I'm gonna respond to everyone else, I hope no one thinks I ignored their response--they're all much appreciated.

[iknowexactly]

Just some ideas off the top of my head :

1) 3 hours a day commute is totally deadening unless yo ucan sleep on a train etc. Driving is quite tiring you have to pay attentin every second.

2) If you had a skill like Radiology Technician. Welder, ANYTHING you won't feel as trapped because you have a transportable SKILL so you are not trapped in a particular job.

3) If you 're going to have a shit job, you should get a government job that has you paying in to a pension.
Not glamorous and you can't retire until 55 but you can save money on your own so you should be able to retire before that age.

[SunW]

I'll take a slightly different angle than most. You're 24 years old and you make $40K a year. According to some Canadian economic data, the median age for men is 39 and median household income is $76K. But household income is generally 2 earners, so $76K divided by 2 equals $38K. We could safely assume that about half or slightly more median age Canadian males are making in the $35-40K range based on the median income figures.

What does that mean? You're 24 and you're making $40K, and you've saved quite a bit for your age (sorry, don't have median savings' figures).

First, acknowledge that you're doing well so that you can build on what you're doing. You won't hit it rich over night and anyone who tells you is lying (or worse, trying to sell you something). Look at what you've done right (because you have done some things right) and build the same systems for the next steps.

It's just as important to acknowledge when you're doing some things right as it is to acknowledge when you need to improve.

[Vitriol]

Keep in mind the most valuable assets you have are your future time and future earning potential. So if you figure, as an example, you have maybe 40 good working years and you waste 4 of those years working a dead end job you don't care about, that's about 10% of your career that's already wasted (aside from the fact you were getting a paycheck). It goes by faster than we realize when we're in the middle of it.

I'm currently about to leave my boring office job, but it has been a few years I've wasted and that bothers me. Over the past year I've gradually seen things get worse and worse at my current job and I realized I don't want to be miserable any longer than necessary.

If you have enough money saved up to live off of for at least a year or so that should be more than enough time. You don't want to put yourself in a position where you're constantly delaying leaving and wasting even more time. Take a couple of weeks to check on your finances and maybe get the ball rolling on some ways to make small amounts of money in the meantime, then leave as soon as possible. That's what I'm doing and I'm not really too worried about what I'm going to do when I quit.

Disco_Volante Wrote:

98% of people don't want to be rich or successful. They want to go to work, do what they're told, get a paycheck and go home. They dont want to take risks or sacrifice their lifestyle for a long-term gamble. They want holidays and paid vacations, and dont want their work to run their life. They dont want to think about big-picture strategies or risks, they just want to do what they're told. These are the types of people who bitch about CEO's making big money, but aren't willing to work 80 hours a week.

Most of my co-workers at the various office jobs I've had seem extremely boring and dull. The younger ones pretty much spend all of their free time smoking weed and playing video games, watching TV, or other forms of passive entertainment. I've also overheard middle-aged soulless cubicle jockeys talk about the boring shit they do on their downtime like play golf or take their fat old hag wife to some overpriced restaurant. Looking at people like this from the outside, most of them seem like losers if you're honest. Don't end up like them.

[Tigre]

(07-02-2015 02:06 PM)Trill Clinton Wrote:  

-have a bachelor’s degree in economics

How's the job market right now in your field? Have you tested the waters recently?

How active is your LinkedIn profile?

Have you got your CV on file with headhunters who know you're looking for an entry level job? Have you sat down personally with any agents at those headhunter companies?

What are your friends from your graduating class doing? Do they know you're looking for work?

You have a vision of getting to a data analyst job. It probably won't happen all in one hit. It will happen incrementally. The first step on your road map is to move to a professional job that utilizes your degree.

[Nascimento]

You've recognized your position is a bad one and you'd like to improve it. You deserve merit for that alone. I don't blame you for being in this spot, society in the GTA is mostly so screwed up when it comes to careers. 3 hour commutes are seen as normal to make measly salaries... And the average person is only pulling in 40k with the same commute as you, but also living independent with credit card debt to top it off. Don't be ashamed to be living with the parents right now, since you are still in your 20's. Just see it as something temporary. It's valuable, but don't rely on it too much.

It could be much worse... Trust me. I know guys in their low 20's that have taken a break from school to pile up some cash. But they are making minimum wage, and because of car payments and inflated insurance costs, they only bank a few hundred dollars a month, while living at home!

But again, good on you to realize the position society places upon you is a retarded one at best. Time to break free from it. You deserve so much better. Travesty put it best.

Some solid advice in this thread.

My 2 cents would be to plan an exit strategy of course, and not to place too much of a time limit on it. I wouldn't quit right away, but I wouldn't stay much longer either. 4-6 months at most. I'd pull in some extra cash while brainstorming ideas, and take your best option and follow through when you do finally quit.

[Nascimento]

(07-03-2015 09:39 AM)SunW Wrote:  

I'll take a slightly different angle than most. You're 24 years old and you make $40K a year. According to some Canadian economic data, the median age for men is 39 and median household income is $76K. But household income is generally 2 earners, so $76K divided by 2 equals $38K. We could safely assume that about half or slightly more median age Canadian males are making in the $35-40K range based on the median income figures.

What does that mean? You're 24 and you're making $40K, and you've saved quite a bit for your age (sorry, don't have median savings' figures).

First, acknowledge that you're doing well so that you can build on what you're doing. You won't hit it rich over night and anyone who tells you is lying (or worse, trying to sell you something). Look at what you've done right (because you have done some things right) and build the same systems for the next steps.

It's just as important to acknowledge when you're doing some things right as it is to acknowledge when you need to improve.

Yeah he's making average income, which is a good starting point, but as we know regarding all areas covered here in the RVF, average is not nearly enough.

Especially when living costs are so astronomically high as they are in the GTA.

Ditto with building upon it.

If you were looking to settle for life here, as a single man you should be aiming for $60k minimum. If you're living downtown Toronto, bump that up even more.

I'm still naïve in these matters, but this mentality of making just enough to get by, especially in a place where costs are so high (relative to Canada), is just not enough.

Not saying that's what you were suggesting, but that's how most people think around here. Seems like the OP has the right mindset though, glad he's realized it's a serious waste of potential to accept just a comfortable average living, especially in Toronto.

[Eddie Winslow]

I too have bachelor's degree in economics. It's at my parent's house collecting dust.

Learn how to sell. It's scary at first. You will get rejected alot, you will fuck up promising leads, and you won't make much money to start. However, if you stick it out and put in the work to get better, you will never go without income ever again. The demand for men who aren't socially retarded is at an all-time high, and it will only continue to grow as people become stupider, lazier, and more reliant on technology. Looking a person in the eye and selling them is one job that will never be replaced by a computer.

Quote:

You don't get valuable experience being a phone monkey in a call center.

Sorry - this is absolutely not true. If you mindlessly make dials and don't give a shit about getting any better, than yea you're wasting your time. If you really challenge yourself and verbally challenge the schmucks you are calling, you will get results. Push forward relentlessly with no embarrassment or remorse; make them hang up on you. Even if you just try it for a few weeks, your confidence while talking to people will skyrocket. The high rejection rate of phone sales will give you thick skin and make you fearless.

Sales, AKA The art of persuasion, is the essence of game and the key to getting ahead in life.

[The Beast1]

OP you should work another year and pay off those loans. If you're living at home these should be the first things you get liquidated.

Get a gig on the side like bar tending if you want to "game" bar sluts or take some foreign language classes to pass the time. 40k a year is marginal but not bad considering you have no idea what you want to do.

The mantra of the forum is, "learn new language , move to random country". That's fine but if you don't know what you'd like to do you might find yourself in the same position in a new country but without the family home to go to.

What is it that you'd like to learn more of? Don't say run a business unless you have a product to sell.

[donnie514]

(07-03-2015 06:20 AM)Valentine Wrote:  

You need to read this: http://wallstreetplayboys.com/everything...-a-career/

I wouldn't recommend the oil sands because it doesn't build transferable skills if you want to start your own business later and pay isn't performance-based.

I couldn't disagree more.

I worked there for a year and built enough money to travel for 6 months during 2014-15 AND start my own business in a field I love.

The only problem is that the industry isn't for the weak minded or lazy.

[Easy_C]

(07-02-2015 04:12 PM)not_dead_yet Wrote:  

Got fired. Lol.

That happened to someone I'm related to. He got fired from his firm (A F500 company) and decided to do the same thing on his own. He now owns a successful research company with offices in both the US East Coast and Europe.

[Easy_C]

(07-03-2015 10:23 AM)Eddie Winslow Wrote:  

Sorry - this is absolutely not true. If you mindlessly make dials and don't give a shit about getting any better, than yea you're wasting your time. If you really challenge yourself and verbally challenge the schmucks you are calling, you will get results. Push forward relentlessly with no embarrassment or remorse; make them hang up on you. Even if you just try it for a few weeks, your confidence while talking to people will skyrocket. The high rejection rate of phone sales will give you thick skin and make you fearless.

Sales, AKA The art of persuasion, is the essence of game and the key to getting ahead in life.

You're talking about outbound calls. He's talking about doing inbound customer support calls, which is a very different game.

[Trill Clinton]

(07-02-2015 05:38 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

Being from Toronto, I think you are better off than a lot of people for someone your age. You seem to be able to save money like a bandit, I could use lessons from you.
The only way to get out of the job is to take a night school course in something that interests you. I have one in mind that I am looking at, feel free to PM because I don't want to post it on here.
I agree stay in your job and get the experience. Is there another department you could transfer too?

I'm actually taking an evening class right now. I'm getting some perquisite math courses done so that I can do a Masters in Stats or Applied Math down the line which would help me if I wanted a career in data science.

I work at a big 5 bank, and I think there is a possibility that I could move to another department. I do apply to jobs at my bank sometimes, however if you're not in a few key parts of the bank, for the most part the raises are small, and it will take forever to get to the 6 figure mark at a bank if you get there at all.

And thanks! I think the only things I've done well in the last couple of years was save money, haha.

Good luck on your evening course!

(07-02-2015 06:13 PM)donnie514 Wrote:  

Your Canadian come and join the rest of us here in Alberta! You can get a job as construction laborer that pays 20$ starting salary with overtime you can clear 3500-4000 a month with that and that's the most basic job here. Get Paid and get in better shape at same time.

Quit your job, sell everything you don't need and drive up here and join the rest of us. . Figure out what you want to do over here away from your parents, dead end job and assuming loser friends who are in same boat as you.

You must move out of parents house ASAP. That is holding you back big time.

Ha, can't say I'm ready to leave T.O. yet. It's pretty awesome what some of you guys are doing out west but I don't think its for me to be honest.

Appreciate the suggestion!

[Trill Clinton]

(07-02-2015 04:40 PM)Travesty444 Wrote:  

(07-02-2015 02:35 PM)RealDeal Wrote:  

40k a year is pretty decent for a single guy especially if you're still living at home.

No it isn't he needs to work harder. Call center is the job you get when you don't know what the fuck to do with your life.

OP:

What was you education in? Why aren't you using that?

Find a low stress job close as you can to home ASAP even if it is a pay cut. Bartender would be a great one. 3 hours commute is a huge waste of time unless it is a very high paying job and you have a family tying you down. Even then it's bad. This new job would just be a bridge to give you time and energy to move to something else.

Use your spare time to further your education in a marketable skill or trade.

If you know what you want to switch to train in you use your savings just to pack up and move to wherever the opportunity is.

Good news is having your home base with your saved money is you don't have to care about a pay cut in the short term to be able to use the extra time and energy you will save to get a better one.

If I were you I would quit this job today.

1. It is a dead end giving you no skills
2. It won't mean shit for your resume that you quit, especially since you are going to do something else anyways
3. You have a financial back stop in your parents and savings
4. It is a waste of your time
5. Your health is deteriorating
6. Your soul is dying

Also you are in Toronto. Why aren't you planning an exit path?

Respect yourself more.

Thanks a bunch for the advice.

I've been thinking about just quitting my job for a few months now to be honest. If it not for fear of having a gap in my resume, I think I'd do school part time (math courses to prepare to apply for a masters in stats), and pick up programming (I want to start with python since it's pretty popular in data analysis) on the side to make me competitive for the types of jobs I want to eventually get. And work a part time job as you said.

Right now, I think I'm gonna stay at work until September at least to scrape some more savings up.

But in the mean time I'll apply for other jobs. If nothing else I'll get some interview practice. I'll stick with evening classes twice a week for the summer, and then in September I'll see if I can get another part time job, or even see if my current place will let me work just 2 days a week--very unlikely, but my job would be fine if it was just 2 days a week.

Haha, I actually like Toronto a lot. Don't have a big frame of reference though.

[Trill Clinton]

(07-02-2015 06:14 PM)Chemistry Wrote:  

Your story and mine are similar - I felt exactly like you do, when I was 25. I'm a little older now, living in Toronto. PM me if you want a more personal chat, but here in front of the forum works fine too.

Things I've learned:

• Long commutes will suck anyone's soul out from inside them. The greatest decision I made was to move closer to the subway, which minimizes my commute time.
• I also got the 2-year itch in my job ... left and never went back. It wasn't a dead end job but I just couldn't keep at it. I was my fattest when I was working the 8-6 grind. I can't explain why - I just lost my will to go to the gym. I'm currently in the best shape I've ever been in (no V-Taper though, I'd have to cut out alcohol for that)
• Consider Travesty444 and Vacancier's points: Do you plan on staying in Toronto? The city gets very little love from members here. At 25 I hadn't travelled and travelling opened up my eyes to a huge world full of opportunities. The world is too big to spend your life in one city doing work you hate. Travel will kick your ass into gear and pressure you to make some moves.
  

As for how I quit: I knew I could make money another way, so I just didn't renew my contract.

As for your goals:
-"have a job where I don’t sweat it out with mind numbing tasks" - sounds like you might want to work for yourself - if you've got the self-discipline and guts to go for it
-"move out and still save around 1000 a month." - I'm currently grossing less than 60K and live downtown, and bank almost 1K a month. It's not a baller condo but it's a bachelor near the subway (south of Bloor) and that's what I care about ... having my own place without roommates to cockblock
-get back into good shape. Honestly I think you've got to just fight through this, although it's certainly easier when you have free time.

Thanks a bunch for the kind words and advice. It's good to hear people have gone through the same and got better.

Yeah if I can get to an income level where I can save 1k a month while not living at home, I will leave in a heartbeat.

I think you're right about the gym thing---I can admit there I might just need to stop being a little bitch. Early last year I was waking up at 5 in the morning to go to the gym before work 4 out of 5 weekdays, this was in that horrendous winter we had early 2014. I still had to travel 1.5 hours to work after. I managed to do that for about 6 weeks straight then fell off the wagon. But in those 6 weeks i started gaining what I lost pretty quickly and it felt great. I'm gonna get back on the wagon.

[Tytalus]

I work as a research analyst at a university doing some light business intelligence work and am finishing my MSc in Statistics. At this point here is what I recommend:

1. Quit your day job.
2. Spend the rest of the summer learning some programming skills. Get your base SAS and SQL certifications to show that you used your time well. If you don't know what these two programs are look them up they are essential.
3. This fall and next winter finish up all of the prerequisites you need for a MSc in Statistics or Data Science. Get A's.
4. Fall 2016 start your new MSc program full time.
5. Meanwhile get exercising again, fix your diet, loose weight, cut out the porn, hang out with friends again and game some chics.

PM me if you need more info. Part of my job is studying employment trends.

[Peregrine]

(07-02-2015 07:50 PM)Peregrine Wrote:  

Unless you work in the call center of a bank and you're networking internally, you have to quit ASAP.

(07-03-2015 08:43 PM)Trill Clinton Wrote:  

I work at a big 5 bank, and I think there is a possibility that I could move to another department.

Aha, I had a feeling you did. In that case, don't quit your job. Do what it takes to move downtown though, even if it's a shitty basement unit.

Use the time you just saved to follow Tytalus' steps 2 through 5. What's the department you think you could move into? PM me if that's not something you want to share publicly.

[donnie514]

The most important thing I think though is too just do anything doesn't matter if its not the best choice or best option. Nothing will ever be perfect just take a step and do anything.

Like a guy who spends weeks and weeks of trying to find the best workout program but in meantime doesn't even do 1 pushup. Just gotta Giv'er