[RockHard]

Before I even looked at this thread I knew the answer. Your ceiling for success is your attitude. If you think you're unattractive, then you're unattractive.

(06-08-2015 08:18 PM)depravity Wrote:  

It's genuinely hard to tell if this is the level that I'm going to stay at regardless of whether I do 1000+ cold approaches when I can't even get a cute girl on tinder or pof.

Go look at Why Hasn't Game Worked? Here's a guy who claimed 3000+ approaches but his self esteem sucked, and at the time he started that thread, he totally lacked the self-awareness to learn from his mistakes. 1000 approaches will be a waste of time unless you can reflect on what you did and LEARN FROM YOUR MISTAKES! You know why most people never get better at something? Because they don't know how to look at their past effort and figure out what they're doing wrong. Nascimento's post linked above is a perfect example of how to do it right. He journaled his experiences and learned from that.

You're only 20. When I was 20, I hadn't accomplished anything, I had nothing to offer the world. The best thing about setting a goal like "bench my body weight for reps", or "get to 12% bodyfat" is that when you've achieved that, nobody can take it away from you. Achieving goals does more for self-esteem than anything I know. Set some goals, and make them goals that you control. "Squat 2x bodyweight" is a goal, you control it. "Get a college degree" is a goal because you control it. "Talk to 10 new chicks today" is a goal because you control it. "Get laid" isn't a goal, because she's part of the equation and she's got her own desires & agenda. Getting laid is a reward for being a desirable man.

(06-08-2015 08:18 PM)depravity Wrote:  

The amount of desperation I've shown on those websites is sickening and it's honestly lowered my self-esteem - it's stripped me of any delusions that I could have about my desirability and now I'm just trying to cope.

Then get the fuck off those websites and get out in the real world. The rule about "don't be around people who are an energy drain" holds for the Internet too. You get onto Tinder, yeah, no shit, the bros who are shredded and buff get all the attention. The Internet sucks for 90% of guys. You don't have the perspective because you've grown up with the Internet and you've never known any different, but there is a real world out there and different rules apply.

[kaotic]

I give up man, he isn't listening.

[coverdoc]

Yeah it seem like he is not listening. But OP when you're ready tons of guys/threads will be here to help.

-CD

[Phoenix]

Depravity, if you've actually come here to get advice, rather than just monologue the mess swirling in your head, here is my advice:
- Go on holiday
- Do some fun sports. Dirtbiking, jetskiing, skiing, whatever
- Play some music, buy a guitar or something
- Join some classes or clubs
- Take your computer, and drop it off the balcony of an 8th story apartment (check no-one is below first)

Basically anything to get yourself out of your own head.

[depravity]

Summary of my night out, can't get into clubs yet so I just walk around the nightlife areas:

-Get off work, start walking around the city and I just feel really depressed and out of it for about an hour. I just walked and walked and walked until I mustered the motivation to open a random girl wearing headphones. She kept walking.

-Opened a second girl who was with a large group, told her she was cute, grabbed her waist for some reason, she puts her hands up and says 'eeeeeeeeeyyy!'. I immediately let go of her and walk away, and the whole group of girls started laughing at me.

-Walked up to a third girl, chatted for a bit, she tells me she's walking home so I let her go instead of walking in her direction and chatting her up some more.

-Open another girl, she gives me a once-over and acts aloof, talks to me in a condescending way while avoiding eye contact. Stick with it for a little anyway. I ask what her name is and she says Virginia. I ask where she's from and she lives in Virginia. I tell her she's cheeky, my eyes immediately start wandering around and I fuck off.

- See a really hot girl in a group of 3 walking ahead of me. Realized they were drunk as fuck halfway up (really disappointing) the block so I think fuck it, not happening. They start hollering, smacking each others asses and flashing their tits, the hot one calls some random guy walking by an asshole and I look right at her and say 'no, you're an asshole.' with a grin. All of a sudden she gets super serious and says 'yeah, I guess that was mean'. Didn't really care, just said it to loosen up and see how she'd react.

-Catch a girl walking out of a club, go with a direct opener. She blushes and walks past me slowly, I get a hold her arm and tell her wait and I just let her go.

-See another girl, direct opener, realize she's probably middle aged as I get closer to her. She looks at me like something super awkward happened and doesn't say anything. I walk away...

Conclusions...

-I probably need to be more persistent...it's so easy for me to feel like I've already accomplished something big just by opening her, so I haven't been putting much thought into what I should do afterwards. The minute I get something resembling a shit test or an ambiguous reaction I just leave the set and assume she's not attracted to me/already made her mind up about me. I keep expecting the girl to give me something to work with or immediately reciprocate when in reality I probably need to lead the interaction and make things happen myself somehow.

-I probably lack presence..not doing enough to catch their attention or hook them.

-Got all 'blowouts' but by the end of the night I stopped giving a shit and just wanted to masochistically open every hot girl in the vicinity with my lame direct opener. Starting to realize that's okay to not be all there yet when it comes to women and I could probably be fuckable by the time I'm 22-23 if I keep at this consistently and don't get psyched out.

[depravity]

And Jesus, I'm listening and I've read most of them, I just don't have the time to respond to or acknowledge every post, but I appreciate them. You don't just immediately snap out of a decade of shitty thinking and sometimes I vent. I'm taking more action than I'm used to. Sometimes when you're in the throes of high pressure situations like this it genuinely feels like everything is stacked up against you - platitudes and big-picture perspectives won't immediately stick when you have no references of this shit ever working out in your favor. I'm doing it anyway. 4 months ago all I did was sit at home, binge on Popeyes and cry myself to sleep so I'm not going to suddenly feel attractive to/worthy of some superficial 23 year old girl at a club. Having hot, fit, young girls attracted to me, let alone wanting to fuck me, isn't a part of my reality yet and the guys who pull it off still look like fucking super heroes to me.

[depravity]

I'm so fucked up in terms of inner game right now that sometimes I'll go out and I swear I'll hear some girl near me saying something that vaguely sounds like 'eww' and just assume she's referring to me. I have a lot of shit to sort through. The few girls that I get IOI's from, message me first on POF, acknowledge me, or seem vaguely intimidated/flustered I feel zero attraction towards, none, so I subconsciously assume that's what my league is. The pictures are probably just good/photogenic because IRL I get the reactions/treatment of someone who's average-looking.

[TripleG]

"-Opened a second girl who was with a large group, told her she was cute, grabbed her waist for some reason, she puts her hands up and says 'eeeeeeeeeyyy!'. I immediately let go of her and walk away, and the whole group of girls started laughing at me."

Are you in party destination (Vegas/Miami Beach) or on Spring Break, outside a bar/night club and talkin' to a drunk girl? If your answer is NO then please do us all a favor and stop grabbing girls with whom you haven't even made a proper introduction. To see a great approach watch Sasha at work (he talks to her for a good 10 minutes and only at the end makes it a bit more physical)

[TripleG]

"-Opened a second girl who was with a large group, told her she was cute, grabbed her waist for some reason, she puts her hands up and says 'eeeeeeeeeyyy!'. I immediately let go of her and walk away, and the whole group of girls started laughing at me."

Are you in party destination (Vegas/Miami Beach) or on Spring Break, outside a bar/night club and talkin' to a drunk girl? If your answer is NO then please do us all a favor and stop grabbing girls with whom you haven't even made a proper introduction. To see a great approach watch Sasha at work (he talks to her for a good 10 minutes and only at the end makes it a bit more physical)

[depravity]

I didn't do it on purpose. It was just a blunder.

[depravity]

I'm probably gonna have to start going indirect during the day because I've approached 20+ girls going direct and I can't get the vast majority to stay and have a conversation with me as I said before. It's just awkward and kind of objectifying right off the bat. I'm sure some of them would've given me the time of day if I slowly escalated into a direct frame instead of shocking her into it when she's just walking somewhere minding her own business (it's probably a rare occurrence for her during the day). It'll probably be easier to open a bunch of girls and actually get a number, and I won't get a rep in the areas I usually hang out at as some thirsty guy.

[depravity]

'You're pretty cute, what's your name' might also be too confrontational and douchey, or i probably just come off really incongruent saying that. Maybe softening it to something like "hey, I thought you were cute and wanted to come talk to you, what's your name?" would give me slightly better reactions, but it's still probably not the best way to go about.

[Sketness]

this is what happens when you let light skinned niggas out the house....

I kid


but man really you gotta start listing to what these guys are saying.

There is a LOT of good info on is forum, dont just come here and bitch if you are not going to change anything.

We've all been were you are.... the only thing between us and you is... we decided to learn and change what we were doing

[Phoenix]

"and kind of objectifying right off the bat"
Nooope. Throw that word away right now.

[Jetlagged]

(06-14-2015 11:37 PM)depravity Wrote:  

'You're pretty cute, what's your name' might also be too confrontational and douchey, or i probably just come off really incongruent saying that. Maybe softening it to something like "hey, I thought you were cute and wanted to come talk to you, what's your name?" would give me slightly better reactions, but it's still probably not the best way to go about.

Bruh you sound like me. I have OCD, borderline disabling sometimes.

Look man. Go back and read over your posts.

Regret is a strong emotion. You will regret not taking advantage of your youth and going out and having fun. Meeting girls and dominating them.

It doesn't matter WHAT you say it only matters HOW you say it.

I'll give you a good club opener I used recently in HK. Dude walks in with shiny pointy white and black shoes.

"OK, ladies, I gotta know... What is your honest opinion of this guys shoes"

These shoes were atrocious and immediately they laughed. Flows easy after this. Find your element and thrive.

In china I graduated by making solid eye contact with hot women and not breaking it off. Just maintain it until they pass. You will be SURPRISED how many looks you will start to get. Once this becomes easy, give them a wry, flirty smile towards the end of eye contact. Don't even say a word. Practice this for a week or two, or there until it becomes natural.

Progress to saying hi. That's it. Just hi as they are walking by. Work on sayin it confidently like you're walking by your boy. Some form of acknowledgement, it could even be non verbal.

Now You can say "hey" and give them a little turn of the head and look back them while smiling, by the point you should be decently comfortable and confident.

Now, after you feel good about all of this, approach the women who give you eye contact, smile, and say hi back. You can approach any girl that smiles at you really, hi isn't always fitting in the situation. You can get the numbers of probably 70% of girls that give you these IOIs. Use it in the club, mall, street.

Start conversations with anyone and get comfortable. Practice enunciation.

I consider my self reasonably funny and I can tell you timing, pace and tone, along with facial expressions is where it's at.

I would smother a kitten to be your height. Dude, it's all attitude.

[Nascimento]

OP, read Psycho-Cybernetics and follow the techniques in that book to a T.

This post, along with all the others already in this thread, is all you need.

OP already has all he needs. If he continues to ignore the advice presented here, he's just trolling.

[Jetlagged]

(06-14-2015 01:51 AM)depravity Wrote:  

-Walked up to a third girl, chatted for a bit, she tells me she's walking home so I let her go instead of walking in her direction and chatting her up some more.

-Open another girl, she gives me a once-over and acts aloof, talks to me in a condescending way while avoiding eye contact. Stick with it for a little anyway. I ask what her name is and she says Virginia. I ask where she's from and she lives in Virginia. I tell her she's cheeky, my eyes immediately start wandering around and I fuck off.

- See a really hot girl in a group of 3 walking ahead of me. Realized they were drunk as fuck halfway up (really disappointing) the block so I think fuck it, not happening. They start hollering, smacking each others asses and flashing their tits, the hot one calls some random guy walking by an asshole and I look right at her and say 'no, you're an asshole.' with a grin. All of a sudden she gets super serious and says 'yeah, I guess that was mean'. Didn't really care, just said it to loosen up and see how she'd react.

-Catch a girl walking out of a club, go with a direct opener. She blushes and walks past me slowly, I get a hold her arm and tell her wait and I just let her go.



Conclusions...

-I probably need to be more persistent...it's so easy for me to feel like I've already accomplished something big just by opening her, so I haven't been putting much thought into what I should do afterwards. The minute I get something resembling a shit test or an ambiguous reaction I just leave the set and assume she's not attracted to me/already made her mind up about me. I keep expecting the girl to give me something to work with or immediately reciprocate when in reality I probably need to lead the interaction and make things happen myself somehow.

-I probably lack presence..not doing enough to catch their attention or hook them.

-Got all 'blowouts' but by the end of the night I stopped giving a shit and just wanted to masochistically open every hot girl in the vicinity with my lame direct opener. Starting to realize that's okay to not be all there yet when it comes to women and I could probably be fuckable by the time I'm 22-23 if I keep at this consistently and don't get psyched out.

These 3 approaches had potential. Stop grabbing bitches off rip first of all. You need great frame to pull that off.

Club girl walk in the same direction and tell her don't be shy. Whats your name, where are you going. Listen you look busy but you seem like fun, you should give me your number (don't ask for the number, state that you want it. It's either yes or no)

Drunk girl was a great approach, bold and put her in her place. If she wasn't so drunk you could have really pursue that, you set an instant frame that was strong.

Walking home girl could have extended the convo. Potential there.

Except for the drunk girl, all 3 of these were positive could have beens. I think this a pretty good turnout considering guys do 10 or more approaches a day and get nada... This could have been 3 numbers, or a fuck, or a make out.

Keep it up

[depravity]

Walked around my neighborhood for a couple hours..chickened out because I got too in my head about the fact that I shouldn't do direct openers during the day anymore and I wasn't feeling the idea of going up to a girl and asking insincere questions about the weather and coffee shops. It gives me his strange feeling of being unwanted when I see an attractive girl on the street since I have to pretend that I'm not into her. There's more of an empowering aspect to feeling like you can go up to a girl and express intent. I'll have to shake it off somehow since I don't want to spend the next 3-5 years jerking off and I feel shitty whenever I go a day without approaching. I might go out to the city later to see if there's any sort of nightlife or just hot girls bustling around like I've seen there are on weekends.

[depravity]

The streets are empty and the bars look like a sausage fest. Don't know why I was expecting people to go hard on a Monday. I saw a few okay girls but approaching feels super shady this late at night without the social context.

[Travesty]

^ Go indirect in night street game if there is no context. Ask them for a good live music venue nearby, or place to grab tacos. Keep the conversation going, try to see what they are up to.

[depravity]

I think I've been doing 'half-hearted' approaches (0:50)

[depravity]

All I can think about when I pussy out is how time is winding down on me...I don't have shit else if I don't try to get good at this. What's holding me back? I haven't even fully come into my own as a person, and yet I act as if I have some self-image or dignity to uphold when all it consists of up to this point is mediocrity.

Look out of the window
What's passing you by
If you really want this
Bad enough
You're young and good looking
The keys to the kingdom
Sooner or later
Sooner or later
Sooner or later
And before your very eyes
And before your very eyes
And before your very eyes
Old soul on young shoulders
How you look when you're older
Time's fickle card game
with you and I
You have to take your chances
The book of forgiveness
Sooner or later
Sooner or later
Sooner or later
And before your very eyes
And before your very eyes
And before your very eyes
Sooner or later
And before your very eyes
And before your very eyes
And before your very eyes

[kaotic]

(06-16-2015 01:29 PM)depravity Wrote:  

All I can think about when I pussy out is how time is winding down on me...I don't have shit else if I don't try to get good at this. What's holding me back? I haven't even fully come into my own as a person, and yet I act as if I have some self-image or dignity to uphold when all it consists of up to this point is mediocrity.

Maybe re-reading this entire thread full of suggestions and working on inner-game...but I could be wrong and this be a job

[Cobra]

Beyond trolling, at this point, OP seems borderline suicidal.

Maybe I'm exaggerating but...

OP, writing poems like that and not taking action is not healthy. Thinking that much and hating yourself for not acting is unhealthy. You will not get anywhere with that attitude.

Why should anything good happen if you're not taking action at all?

Maybe your next post can be action focused. Aim for maybe 10 approaches for the rest of the month? Are you willing to do that? Ask for the time or the nearest starbucks. Just do something before you delve deeper into this inner self hate.

You're hating yourself without having failed.

Failing is the first step to success. Thinking this deeply will only fuck you up. In order to fail, you need to try. In order to succeed you need to fail. Logically, put this together and you'll see that you need to try in order to succeed.

[samsamsam]

(06-08-2015 02:30 PM)depravity Wrote:  

To me it's just a measure of how tough it's going to be for me to get results initially. Am I going to have to become a complete monster at game to even get noticed (like tyler durden) or am I not that far off from what girls are attracted to and can see some improvement by making minor tweaks (lower body fat, decent/functional game, etc.)? I can't tell. I know its petty, but it's kind of a different ball game depending on those factors.

I have been avoiding this thread for a while. But today said wtf click it. I am not gonna go past the first page.

Sounds like you want to know if you won before you played the game. A game is not challenging that way.

You defeat yourself before even trying. We must all fight for what we want, maybe not all in the same fields, but we all have to fight for something. Go fight for what you want, fuck what others think of you. And for visual validation go to some site like hot or not.

Don't spin on this topic. If you are not getting girls it isn't because of your looks, possibly your insecurity.

I leave you with two quotes.

Henry Ford said something along the lines of, "Whether you believe it or not you are right." - You think you are too ugly to get girls, you ain't gonna get girls.

Theodore Roosevelt- "THE MAN IN THE ARENA"

This quote always reminds me of what it is to live.

Quote:

It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.

And a 3 min video that I think is inspirational. I have it on MP3 and I play it when warming up for working out.