[Richiavelli]

I lost a three hour LMR battle tonight on a second date, but in it I experienced something for the first time in a very long time.

Like many others, I was driven to the game by anger. Roosh breaks it down in Bang - I'm sure many men in this forum have come here because they reached their own breaking point with women. While I had the best success ever in the game last year, this one throws me for a loop.

Maybe I am in a growing phase of my game, but I broke every rule tonight. I exhibited BF traits with this girl that I really thought I had a connection with, and she walked. Seeing myself slip, I started having this really weird red pill philosophical argument with her to mind fuck her. I don't see myself as a player, but she clearly was trying to slow down progression due to my missteps.

I think what set me over the top is how she was playing games. Even though you finger a girl, she still doesn't let you go for the bang. For some reason, this triggered past emotion and I wilted. She's texted me twice and called me once since leaving, to which I will not respond any time soon (learned my lesson).

With my back story out of the way, I think my question is simple - how do you guys deal with resurfaced anger? Does it ever go away after a certain notch count, or is this just a byproduct of the game that we have to play to get laid? If it does do resurface, is this something you learn to check with the correct frame?

[RealityCheck]

I deal with resurfaced anger by having a kind of protocol in mind. I remind myself that I'm not a robot, and that negative emotions are experienced by everyone, including those who are successful. Whether it's someone contemporary like Michael Jordan, or a historical figure like Genghis Khan. I'm sure they all had their hang-ups. Don't think that obstacles are something unique to you, or a woe of the weak.

I also remind myself that bad moods come and go like bad weather, and just like bad weather, there's nothing you can do to make it go away. All you can do is weather the storm until it passes. That's pretty much what I do; if I'm not in the best of moods I just retreat into myself for however long I have to until it passes.

Hell, look at this guy: Guillaume Le Gentil. He was a French astronomer that sailed to India in 1761 to record the transit of Venus. He was delayed and didn't get to his destination in time so he decided to wait there for eight years until the next transit. He built a state-of-the-art observatory, dutifully waited eight years, and then when the next transit of Venus came, it was cloudy out and he couldn't see anything. He nearly went insane, but pulled himself together and decided to go home. His return trip was delayed first by dysentery, then by stormy seas. It left him stuck on a small French island for awhile until a Spanish ship could come pick him up.

His return trip took something like three years. When he finally got home, he found that he had been declared legally dead, his wife had divorced him, his estate had been plundered, and that he had been replaced at the university he had initially sailed to do his research for. In spite of that, he "lived apparently happily for another 21 years," after getting his estate and fortune back.

So you see, if a man can get over that and still live a happy life, then I'm sure you can get over the three hours of LMR you had to endure. I have my shitty nights too, it happens.

Keep it in perspective.

Also, I admire tenacity, but when it comes to LMR, sometimes I ask myself after a certain point if this chick is really that worth it to me that I'm going to keep trying for THREE HOURS. I know some people on the forum would say that you should, and respect to them, but for me personally, after a certain point with LMR I figure that maybe this girl doesn't deserve my dick if she's going to be so fucking ambivalent about getting it. Once it stops being fun for me, I don't care about getting laid anymore. She had her chance and she blew it.

I know how amazing it is to hook up with a hot chick who is down and that I also think is cool. That's the ideal situation. Unfortunately, the situation isn't always ideal, so I'll put up with less than that when I have to, but I have my limits.

As for you "learning your lesson" so to speak by seeing what happens when you ignore fundamental game principles, I think it's safe to say that we've all been there. I know that I have. Every time I think I can be "myself" around a chick, I get kicked in the balls by hypergamy. So I think that it's as you mentioned, a "growing phase." It doesn't mean you have to be emotionless because connecting with a woman beyond the sexual can be amazing, but you should strive to be realistic with your expectations.

What you describe is also a classic example of why you don't engage a lizard with direct logic and try to negotiate intimacy. You're frustrated that she won't hook up with you because you know that from a logical perspective she should (e.g. maybe you have higher SMV than her, or you know that you are trying to build a genuine connection which is what women claim that they wants, etc). This is how I feel when average looking chicks give me attitude at the bar after I've given them the compliment of hitting on them. The best response is just to forget about it and move on.

For fuck's sake, most guys don't listen to logic, so why do you think a lizard brain will? On the other hand, arguing is guaranteed to heighten whatever your previous emotional involvement was. Hence the bad mood afterwards.

I train in BJJ. I used to leave my arms exposed and get arm barred all the time. Now I don't do that (as much), so I get arm barred less. Such it is with game.

[Foolsgo1d]

You're focusing too much on the anger part and not the area you were failing on. You are angry because you did not get in her pants which is understandable and can be annoying if you have few to no other options.

You need to focus on why you didn't get in her pants. The anger issue is a different beast altogether and can be managed through various means.

[Rawmeo]

Just have a deep reflexion about where you fucked up. Losing a LMR battle is sure an extremely frustrating thing, but don't let it get to you. Just use that to improve your game.

A very good trick to avoid resurfaced anger, regrets, etc. is all summed in one word: ABUNDANCE. This mean that, after you took time to reflect about why you lost the battle, go hit on other girls and forget what happened. This girl doesn't deserve you.

I always get annoyed everytime I see LMR:
- If I win the battle, I'll still be annoyed because she tried to "reject" me.
- If I lose the battle, I'll be annoyed because I didn't get the bang.
So using this logic, I always push through LMR as far as I can, unless she stands up and gets out. If that doesn't happen, I will push through LMR until I die (or I get the bang). After a no-LMR bang, I usually bring the girl to eat something or get her some more drinks to "reward" her for that and welcome her to my harem, but if there is too much LMR, whether there's a bang or not, she goes straight home after that.

ABUNDANCE. Game on. After 5 more notches, this girl will be far away in your memory.

[samsamsam]

Is there a way for you to pinpoint where the anger is coming from? I understand that events triggered this resurfacing but can you go to the source? A lot.of.guys stuff down the anger, I do it too. But a.better way is to resolve that anger so it doesn't impact you. Resolve it the best you can. Some things do not.permanently.go.away.

[XXL]

That "anger" has nothing to do with girls that got away and everything to do with your attitude.

Here's the bitter truth: You're entitled to nothing. Nobody on this Earth including your buddies parents girlfriends etc owes you anything. Nobody is responsible for your happiness. Especially girls you want to bang that barely even know you. Grow up man. Right now you're emotionally attached to temporary circumstances that can change any moment or random relationships that can end before they even start. This is why you're bitter.

Don't forget that girls also play this game and have their own priorities in mind. Wanna win? Outsmart them instead of expecting anything for free. View it as a challenge, not a chore.

Good luck

[Travesty]

Some bitter feelings about women may reduce with notch count. At the same time new angers can arise as you learn more about women's behavior and witness how they react to push / pull with sometimes 100% predictability which also can cause resentment.

Better to accept the world for what it is and move forward. Don't be angry at a dog for licking its own crotch. It's a dog.

[GlockTrigga]

(02-22-2015 08:44 AM)RealityCheck Wrote:  

I deal with resurfaced anger by having a kind of protocol in mind. I remind myself that I'm not a robot, and that negative emotions are experienced by everyone, including those who are successful. Whether it's someone contemporary like Michael Jordan, or a historical figure like Genghis Khan. I'm sure they all had their hang-ups. Don't think that obstacles are something unique to you, or a woe of the weak.

I also remind myself that bad moods come and go like bad weather, and just like bad weather, there's nothing you can do to make it go away. All you can do is weather the storm until it passes. That's pretty much what I do; if I'm not in the best of moods I just retreat into myself for however long I have to until it passes.

Also, I admire tenacity, but when it comes to LMR, sometimes I ask myself after a certain point if this chick is really that worth it to me that I'm going to keep trying for THREE HOURS. I know some people on the forum would say that you should, and respect to them, but for me personally, after a certain point with LMR I figure that maybe this girl doesn't deserve my dick if she's going to be so fucking ambivalent about getting it. Once it stops being fun for me, I don't care about getting laid anymore. She had her chance and she blew it.

I know how amazing it is to hook up with a hot chick who is down and that I also think is cool. That's the ideal situation. Unfortunately, the situation isn't always ideal, so I'll put up with less than that when I have to, but I have my limits.

As for you "learning your lesson" so to speak by seeing what happens when you ignore fundamental game principles, I think it's safe to say that we've all been there. I know that I have. Every time I think I can be "myself" around a chick, I get kicked in the balls by hypergamy. So I think that it's as you mentioned, a "growing phase." It doesn't mean you have to be emotionless because connecting with a woman beyond the sexual can be amazing, but you should strive to be realistic with your expectations.

What you describe is also a classic example of why you don't engage a lizard with direct logic and try to negotiate intimacy. You're frustrated that she won't hook up with you because you know that from a logical perspective she should (e.g. maybe you have higher SMV than her, or you know that you are trying to build a genuine connection which is what women claim that they wants, etc). This is how I feel when average looking chicks give me attitude at the bar after I've given them the compliment of hitting on them. The best response is just to forget about it and move on.

For fuck's sake, most guys don't listen to logic, so why do you think a lizard brain will? On the other hand, arguing is guaranteed to heighten whatever your previous emotional involvement was. Hence the bad mood afterwards.

Spot on. I am allergic to ambivalence and have always been. My method to stop anger and frustration from rising is to avoid situations which can cause that emotion. Focus on efficiency. As another poster here said the key is abundance theory. The reality is that you can never count on one Woman to take it upon herself to choose you. You must juggle multiple possibilities and cut the cord when the ROI turns negative and goes into the red almost immediately. Emotional energy is something Men should keep sacred. The moment a Woman steps out of line and tries to lasso you into an orbiter role you immediately terminate the interaction with grace.

This shows you are valuable. Unfortunately the shit tests in some will be relentless even after your DHV. For those cases just go radio silence and no contact ever again. Punish their behavior in denying what they now realize is a high quality male. When it keeps on happening and they end up a spinster you'll have the last laugh. 3 hours is far too long. Even before I spun a lot of plates I made sure to have pre-planned reasons to leave. Work in the morning, Gym on the weekends and/or other social events. Simple as not putting all your eggs in one basket as the old saying goes. Work your prospects like you work a portfolio. I had one Woman e-mailing me non-stop because I signed up for a newsletter. She was new to Sales and didn't understand how the game works so I had to teach her. Didn't respond to ANY of her e-mails (her product didn't apply to me I just wanted the White paper). It was clear she had no other leads and the e-mails reeked of desperation. This is how a Woman views us in the sexual marketplace if we conduct ourselves like we have no other options and too aggressively.

As a result, LMRs will appear out of nowhere like this: https://33.media.tumblr.com/03f66ef7ca66...o1_500.gif because the sirens are going off in her head. And logic doesn't work to defeat it. Your primary weapon here is simple. The option to leave and save your time and energy, this will force her to essentially tell the truth on whether she perceives you as Alpha or Beta. If you are Alpha she will retract her statements and ask you to stay. If you are Beta she will not lament you leaving, and even if you are Alpha sometimes she's just defective and the hamster is too strong. She will convince herself that not having sex with you will help her retain her already lost value. (After all you are just Joe #221 stepping up to bat)

Now for a Man it's simple when a Woman DHV's a Male will 9 times of 10 reply positively. When a Man DHV's a Woman will take step back and evaluate her options before responding. Sometimes she will take weeks depending on her SMV. Early bird gets the worm. Show the Woman that not being decisive will result in her not being rewarded. In reality she will never learn, but nonetheless your desired result: Either getting the poon or saving time and energy, will be achieved.

Focus less on getting the poon but ensuring that YOUR requirements are met. Being selective will convey a subconscious message that YOU and your time is extremely valuable and she should feel GRATEFUL to be in your presence. If your requirements are not met and she is not putting forth any effort to please you then charge her to the game and keep it moving to the next prospect.

[Richiavelli]

(02-22-2015 08:44 AM)RealityCheck Wrote:  

As for you "learning your lesson" so to speak by seeing what happens when you ignore fundamental game principles, I think it's safe to say that we've all been there. I know that I have. Every time I think I can be "myself" around a chick, I get kicked in the balls by hypergamy. So I think that it's as you mentioned, a "growing phase." It doesn't mean you have to be emotionless because connecting with a woman beyond the sexual can be amazing, but you should strive to be realistic with your expectations.

RealityCheck, great post. This part really resonated with me, I was really connecting with a woman for the first time in a long time and dropped my guard. Really appreciate the post.

[Richiavelli]

(02-22-2015 12:29 PM)Rawmeo Wrote:  

Just have a deep reflexion about where you fucked up. Losing a LMR battle is sure an extremely frustrating thing, but don't let it get to you. Just use that to improve your game.

ABUNDANCE. Game on. After 5 more notches, this girl will be far away in your memory.

I've been doing better with this. Ironically, I fucked some other girl the night before. To be honest, I don't really care to spin plates. I'm happy just having one chick every so often until she falls off and I have to find a new one. I think what gets me is there was some type of connection past sex with this one - kind of like the Roosh/Anna thing. I guess that's why we learn to play the game: to be ready for when these things happen.

(02-22-2015 01:08 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  

Is there a way for you to pinpoint where the anger is coming from? I understand that events triggered this resurfacing but can you go to the source? A lot.of.guys stuff down the anger, I do it too. But a.better way is to resolve that anger so it doesn't impact you. Resolve it the best you can. Some things do not.permanently.go.away.

Lot of it stems from being a social outcast way back when. When girls obviously play games it annoys the shit out of me. It was a bit odd - this is the first time I've ever had this resurface in a very, very long time.

(02-22-2015 04:28 PM)XXL Wrote:  

That "anger" has nothing to do with girls that got away and everything to do with your attitude.

Here's the bitter truth: You're entitled to nothing. Nobody on this Earth including your buddies parents girlfriends etc owes you anything. Nobody is responsible for your happiness. Especially girls you want to bang that barely even know you. Grow up man. Right now you're emotionally attached to temporary circumstances that can change any moment or random relationships that can end before they even start. This is why you're bitter.

Don't forget that girls also play this game and have their own priorities in mind. Wanna win? Outsmart them instead of expecting anything for free. View it as a challenge, not a chore.

Good luck

Agree. Looking back, you are spot on and I felt entitled to it. Wrong state to be in. I've never really been fond of the chase, but maybe I need to fix that. Someone else talked about having a cutoff, I think I will never push that far into LMR ever again. Maybe I felt convinced I could win, as I did it before with a virgin (sex wasn't even worth it........)

(02-22-2015 04:46 PM)Travesty444 Wrote:  

Some bitter feelings about women may reduce with notch count. At the same time new angers can arise as you learn more about women's behavior and witness how they react to push / pull with sometimes 100% predictability which also can cause resentment.

Thanks for the honesty, this is something I will start to look out for.

(02-22-2015 05:06 PM)GlockTrigga Wrote:  

Spot on. I am allergic to ambivalence and have always been. My method to stop anger and frustration from rising is to avoid situations which can cause that emotion. Focus on efficiency. As another poster here said the key is abundance theory. The reality is that you can never count on one Woman to take it upon herself to choose you. You must juggle multiple possibilities and cut the cord when the ROI turns negative and goes into the red almost immediately. Emotional energy is something Men should keep sacred. The moment a Woman steps out of line and tries to lasso you into an orbiter role you immediately terminate the interaction with grace.

Even before I spun a lot of plates I made sure to have pre-planned reasons to leave. Work in the morning, Gym on the weekends and/or other social events. Simple as not putting all your eggs in one basket as the old saying goes. Work your prospects like you work a portfolio.

Focus less on getting the poon but ensuring that YOUR requirements are met. Being selective will convey a subconscious message that YOU and your time is extremely valuable and she should feel GRATEFUL to be in your presence. If your requirements are not met and she is not putting forth any effort to please you then charge her to the game and keep it moving to the next prospect.

Next time it won't happen, I think this was a pretty good way to learn the lesson. We all have to at some point.



Thanks to everyone responding and helping me think through this one. This really is the only sounding board I have to bounce ideas off when it comes to these things.

[FANATICAL]

She is killing your boner because you wanted validation sex and she's not even offering transactional sex. You know she gave it up easy to Alpha D before so you get angry. Others have said you are not entitled to sex, which is true but you are entitled to feel annoyed and ditch her for another girl who isn't a time waster.

[OregonToSoCal]

I know for me it goes back to middle school when I really started noticing girls but I was socially awkward and girls would make fun of me and laugh at me. I didn't realize it until well into adulthood but I've been carrying a good amount of anger and resentment towards women since then. Of course what happens when we have unresolved anger? We want to settle the score. We want to prove that we're not that awkward kid that we once were. So we go into approval seeking, validation mode. If this really hot woman agrees to fuck me I've been accepted by her and that "proves" that I'm worthy now and no longer a "loser". Through the years I've done a lot of hard work on building my self esteem and not tying my self worth to how many women agree to fuck (approve) me though that tendency will always be there.

On the flip side, when I lose an LMR battle the anger still bubbles up and my mind wants to jump to the conclusion that she was just "fucking with me" and trying to frustrate and make me angry. Of course we all know that this scenario is most likely not true and the LMR is coming from her own skewed beliefs about sex, not wanting to be a slut, shame and the whole gamut of societal programming and almost always has ZERO to do with you. While I'm still most definitely a work in progress here's what seems to be working for me in terms of LMR.

1. Continue to cultivate abundance. It's much easier to not give a shit about getting a particular bang when you just had sex yesterday, and the day before, with two different women!
2. Really focus on enjoying the time you're spending with each woman. Of course the goal is to end the evening in sex but really try to savor the conversation and live in the moment. Be genuinely curious about the girl you're seeing because let's face it, if you really can't stand to talk to her the sex is going to be so so at best.
3. Put yourself in her position when she gives you LMR. I'm starting to realize that LMR is in many situations just the girl testing you to see if you will slow down or stop when she asks. Kind of like jumping in a high performance sports car and testing the brakes before you put the hammer down all the way. If the breaks are faulty (you don't slow down when she pushes you away or you get frustrated) she's not going to want to go very fast.
4. When she does give LMR completely disengage, stop escalating and go back to talking about whatever you were talking about before. After 5 minutes start again...

[samsamsam]

(02-22-2015 05:26 PM)Richiavelli Wrote:  

(02-22-2015 01:08 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  

Is there a way for you to pinpoint where the anger is coming from? I understand that events triggered this resurfacing but can you go to the source? A lot.of.guys stuff down the anger, I do it too. But a.better way is to resolve that anger so it doesn't impact you. Resolve it the best you can. Some things do not.permanently.go.away.

Lot of it stems from being a social outcast way back when. When girls obviously play games it annoys the shit out of me. It was a bit odd - this is the first time I've ever had this resurface in a very, very long time.

Here is some bro science. I have read some of this stuff I am about to share in the past but am no expert.

That anger from those days of being a social outcast still sits there in you. Maybe not at a conscious level but it is there. It remains unresolved from a healing perspective. So when you experience something similar to what you experienced then it is like an immediate shot of anger. Rather than taking its time to work through your emotional defenses (like tolls on a road and you stop to evaluate each time) where you wouldn't get triggered instead it is on an expressway straight to the pain bubble from your past.

It will always be there until you address it. Ignoring it it is fine. I get that men always want to compartmentalize and move on, but if your ability to shake it off or compartmentalize isn't strong then you are bound to have relapses.

[Giovonny]

Anger is often destructive -- to yourself!

Your own anger usually causes your own suffering.

Try to channel that anger into something productive.

Are you angry at this girl? All girls? The world? Yourself? Your family? All of the above?

Don't make any decisions when you are angry. Breathe, get outside, get away from people except close friends and family, do something that you enjoy, stay calm.

Communicating about your anger helps.

Why are you mad?

How do you feel?

What do you want?

What do you need?

Don't hold it in. Let in it out on a supportive environment.

Don't ignore your anger, it will not go away. It will come back when you least expect it.

Often times, it will cause your own suffering.

***

When I get angry, I step back and get away from people.

I go for a walk in the mountains or I go play sports.

I don't make any decisions for at least 24 hours. I sleep on it.

I allow myself to be angry but I don't beat myself up over it.

I try to have honest communication with the person I am angry at.

I Google "anger management techniques".

I talk to older, wiser, more experienced people about my feelings.

Anger gave me gray hair, I learned the hard way, don't be like me!

Hope this helps.

[Richiavelli]

Just want to update this. I ended up banging the girl tonight and it was lackluster.

I think the lesson speaks for itself.

[Rawmeo]

LMR always pisses me off, and if it's too much, I can get a soft-on even if I want to bang the girl.

I had a discussion today with a girl that I banged 3 days ago. I met her for the first time 2 weeks ago, brought her to my place after drinks and got a very easy SNL, no resistance, and good sex. Everything to make perfect harem material.

I was texting with her a lot, and I was starting to consider potential girlfriend material. The day 3 days ago was:
- I go all the way to Bangkok to pick her up, she shows 1 hour late
- We go to a big park near my place (~30 km) and we eat dinner there, they have restaurants
- We go to my place, I cook a dessert I know how to make, with maple syrup
- I start a movie
- I start to get to work, and get "just kiss today okay?", which I obviously ignored.

I kept plowing through LMR, and she craned me 5 times, saying that she didn't want to do it today. I got pissed and started feeling that "nice guy who gets friendzoned". I did one of my favorite trick: quickly pulling the panties down and putting my tongue right on the clitoris. It works almost everytime to kill LMR in its tracks.

The bang wasn't incredible. I kicked her out right after I was done, and I was still mad at her.

I then asked her, on Line, why she tried to resist me. Her answer was litterally "I just didn't want to today lol"
Nothing screams more "I don't care" than this shitty answer. I nexted her.

I then thought about it, and I came to the conclusion that she was simply in her bubble and didn't pay attention to the situation. I also concluded that I was a "nice guy" too much on this one, and she tried to friendzone me.