[VolandoVengoVolandoVoy]

So, I've been reading this book (Peter the Great by Robert Massie) and I came across a relevant passage that opened my eyes, I guess the pendulum swings back and forth across history:

Quote:

The Muscovite idea of women, derived from Byzantium, had nothing of those romantic medieval Western conceptions of gallantry, chivalry and the Court of Love. Instead, a woman was regarded as a silly, helpless child, intellectually void, morally irresponsible, and, given the slightest chance, enthusiastically promiscuous.

[Pontifex Maximus]

Up until the Industrial Revolution, wasn't every civilization red-pill? That's why the British are so proud of their Queen, her power was inherited from the Textile Revolution. Of course, this discounts ancient female icons like Cleopatra, but she back-stabbed her brother Ptolemy. She also divorced-raped Marcus Antonius of Eastern Roman Empire (bordering Parthia).

The modern version of feminism requires comfortable standard of living and labor specialization. I'd like to see a Neolithic cavecunt have time to petition for suffrage. Elizabeth Cady Stanton was the daughter of a senator/New York Supreme Court Justice. Susan B. Anthony's father was a cotton mill baron and Quaker religious leader. It was the wealth of men around these women who allowed them to play activist for leisure.

[TigerMandingo]

(02-10-2015 09:01 PM)VolandoVengoVolandoVoy Wrote:  

So, I've been reading this book (Peter the Great by Robert Massie)

I just started this book, as well. Extremely fascinating. Check out Massie's other books on pre-Soviet Russia as well. He's probably the best Western historian on the subject.

[Old Fritz]

EDIT

[The Father]

"The Muscovite idea of women, derived from Byzantium, had nothing of those romantic medieval Western conceptions of gallantry, chivalry and the Court of Love. Instead, a woman was regarded as a silly, helpless child, intellectually void, morally irresponsible, and, given the slightest chance, enthusiastically promiscuous."

In other words...a woman was regarded for what she was most likely to be!

[Travesty]

I think I need to adopt the main quote about woman and make it what I truly feel about a good looking woman I am about to approach to really kick them off the pedestal. I still have hot chicks I see where for some reason I am
concerned about interrupting them lol as if they are contemplating deep philosophies or coming up with the cure for cancer in their head lol. Most of them are thinking about whether they should trade up from their current boyfriend or which dick on Tinder they want that week.

[Quintus Curtius]

Volando:

Could you expand on your original post a bit more? For example, where (i.e., in what books) was the "Muscovite" idea of women expressed? Where and how was the Byzantine idea of women expressed? I'm just wondering if the author of that quote said anything more about it. I'd like to hear more on this topic...

Q

[Pontifex Maximus]

(02-10-2015 11:28 PM)Travesty444 Wrote:  

Most of them are thinking about whether they should trade up from their current boyfriend or which dick on Tinder they want that week.

That is certainly their only thought that...goes deep.

[VolandoVengoVolandoVoy]

(02-10-2015 11:43 PM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  

Volando:

Could you expand on your original post a bit more? For example, where (i.e., in what books) was the "Muscovite" idea of women expressed? Where and how was the Byzantine idea of women expressed? I'm just wondering if the author of that quote said anything more about it. I'd like to hear more on this topic...

Q

Sure. It's kind of a pain to type it all out, but if you follow this link you can get the full text free.: https://books.google.com/books?id=ekdTC7...&q&f=false

Let me know what you think. Very interesting how they did things. I like how the father ceremonially gives his daughter's husband a whip and tells him it's his job to keep her in line now.

[ColSpanker]

Tsar Peter was stone cold. He had his own son executed for working against him.

[VolandoVengoVolandoVoy]

(02-11-2015 09:09 AM)ColSpanker Wrote:  

Tsar Peter was stone cold. He had his own son executed for working against him.

Well, he did see right in front of him a bunch of nobles including some family members dragged out of the palace and brutally executed on the Kremlin grounds by an unruly mob of deranged soldiers when he was ten years old. It left an impression.

[Libertas]

(02-10-2015 09:17 PM)Pontifex Maximus Wrote:  

Up until the Industrial Revolution, wasn't every civilization red-pill?

Not exclusively, though largely from the decline of Rome in the third or so century until the past century the Western world was largely that.

Speaking of the 17th century, I turn back to my old post about Peter's contemporary, the most powerful man of the time, Louis XIV. Stacked in his memoirs is perhaps the most telling passage of how men should treat their relations with women. These words are probably the most red pill thing I've ever read, and we know they were coming from someone with experience:

Quote:

“While we abandon our heart we should remain masters of our own mind. We should separate the tenderness of the lover from the resolutions of the sovereign, and the beauty in whose possession we rejoice should never be allowed the right of speaking to us on business, or interfering about the persons we employ.

“In the same manner as a fortified place is attacked, so is the heart of a prince. The first step is to take possession of every post or avenue leading to it: an artful woman at first sets about removing all those who are not in her own interests; she inspires us with suspicions against some and excites our displeasure against others, in order that she herself and her own friends alone may be listened to; and unless we are well on our guard against these practices, we are exposed to the necessity of giving offense to every person in order to gratify her alone.

“From the instant that you allow a woman the liberty of speaking to you on affairs of importance, it is impossible but what she must mislead you. This predilection we feel for her, induces us to approve of arguments that are bad in themselves, hurries us insensibly into her way of thinking, and her own weakness, causing her to prefer frivolous interests to more solid considerations, she infallibly adopts ill-timed and pernicious resolutions.

“Women are eloquent in their expressions, pressing in their requests, obstinate in their notions; and all this is often found merely on some aversion against some individual, some wish to promote another, or some promise imprudently given. No secret can be safe in their keeping for they may, from mere simplicity and ignorance, discover what should be concealed, or if they possess wit and knowledge, they seldom fail to form secret intrigues and connections; they have them a certain set of counselors, who are to advise them how to preserve or promote their own greatness, to whom they never fail to impart everything which they know, with a view merely to those advantages which they may derive from the circumstance.

“It is in these councils that they in every instance deliberate about what course they shall take, what means they shall adopt to accomplish what they have undertaken, to rid themselves of those who may have hurt them, to advance their friends, to entangle us still closer in their fetters; while we all along have no other means left to escape than to forbid their speaking about any subjects, save those of pleasure and amusement, and make up our minds not to believe any one of their suggestions concerning matters of business and our confidential servants.

“I will candidly confess, however, that a prince whose heart is strongly possessed by love, being at the same time disposed to esteem her whom he loves, will find it hard to observe these precautions; but the more painful the trial the brighter our virtue appears; besides it is certain that these precautions are most indispensable and that it is for want of their being attended to that we behold in history so many fatal instances of royal houses extinct, thrones destroyed, provinces laid waste, and empires overturned.”

Ironically though, Louis began to neglect his own advice towards the end of his reign (after these memoirs were written). He began to get too entangled in Madame de Maintenon's web. The correlating results were far from good.

[Icarus]

17th century France was also red pill. Quoting Ninon de l'Enclos (1620-1705):

Ninon de l´Enclos Wrote:

Feminine virtue is nothing but a convenient masculine invention.

Ninon de l´Enclos Wrote:

Men lose more conquests by their own awkwardness than by any virtue in the woman.

[Glaucon]

When was Russia not red pill?

[Swooper]

That brilliance from Louis XIV brought a tear to my eye.

[h3ltrsk3ltr]

I tag this book a few years back. An excellent overview of the time period and it doesn't read like dry history at all.

[Giovonny]

The whole world was "red pill" in the 17th century.

In fact, the whole world has been "red pill" since the beginning of time.

Women had no rights until very recently.

The world is still very much "red pill". The only " blue pill" places are the few western countries where feminism has taken hold.

The only "blue pill" men are the men who grew up in these feminist enclaves.