[Roosh]

I wanted to get some feedback from guys who have been to both parts of the world. What are the main differences between them in categories like women, pickup, logistics, cost, weather, and fun factor? If a guy could only focus on one area, which should it be?

On the forum I feel that the Balkans are more highly praised, that the Baltics, while nice, is more touristy and harder to pull, even though the women may be hotter. Any thoughts/rumors/opinions?

[Gringo]

I travelled round the former Yugoslavia a few years back, around the end of summer time.

WEATHER:
The weather would fluctuate from boiling hot to torrential rain and thunder storms.

COSTS:
It's cheap, VERY cheap. Couldn't spend my money even with eating out and drinking every night.

TOURISTS:
Not that many tourists around, mostly backpackers and people doing things independently but you don't see them everywhere. No stag parties that I saw.

WOMEN:
Women were a mixed bag, some gorgeous and friendly girls but also lots of girls (and people in general) that don't want to give you the time of day or help you in anyway. Some more interested in ripping you off or being rude even when you're
trying to buy something from them. When even the tourist information offices aren't willing to be nice or helpful you know something is wrong. Also some absolute stars who would go above and beyond to help you (rare).

TRAVEL:
Easy enough to travel around, everywhere is connected by train or bus, just rock up to the station on the day and buy a ticket.

ENGLISH:
English isn't widely spoken but you can get by as there's always someone, it was never a major problem.

FOOD:
Food is pretty dreadful unless you're willing to spend big bucks. Eat from takeaways, street food or in local cafes and small restaurants and the quality is not good. Lots of greasy meat, kebabs etc though you will come across some strange delicasies like horse burgers and kebabs (actually quite good). Even though I'm moaning about how bad the kebabs were the best meal I ate in the Balkans was a chicken kebab dish in Mostar, Bosnia that came with boiled potatoes and was delicious. I don't know how that man made those things (he was the PR guy, waiter, barman & chef!) but he did it well.

HISTORY & CULTURE:
If you're interested in history & culture the Balkans is a good place for it, you've got a mix of cultures, very east meets west in places, influences of Europe and Asia, WW1 was essentially started in Bosnia with the assasination of Arch Duke Ferdinand, then many events in WW2 happening through out the Balkans, communism, break up of Yugoslavia and resulting war in the 90s, roman history etc. We visited former Nazi concentration camps (in pristine condition), Roman structures, medievil castles, temples, remnants of both world wars and much more.

NATURE:
Lots of beautiful and scenic places in Croatia, Bosnia, Slovenia, Serbia. Beaches, countryside, national parks, mountains, happening cities.

NIGHTLIFE:
Nightlife in places like Zagreb, Split, Dubrovnik, Lbulbjana, Belgrade, Nis, Sarajevo, Mostar, Sofia. Too long ago to remember names of clubs or bars but there's plenty around and find a friendly local or hostel / hotel staff member they'll happily tell you where to go

MY HIGHLIGHTS:
Some of the highlights for me: Ljubljana in Slovenia, Split in Croatia, Nis in Serbia & most importantly Sarajevo & Mostar in Bosnia which are some of the favourite places I've visited, just fascinating.

I'd recommend spending a day or two in Ljubljana seeing all the sights then partying at night, it's a small capital city but a big student town so lots of parties and beautiful girls. Even the ugly girls here are good looking. The big thing when I went seemed to be local white guys dressed up in hip-hop gear, i.e. oversized clothes and bling bling, the locals loved it. There's all sorts of nightlife here from commercial to underground techno squat raves.

Hitting the coasts and islands of Croatia (Split, Dubrovnik and many others) for the beaches and nightlife as well as a good buit of history and culture to take in during the day. Split tends to get a more upmarket crowd and lots of people with boats and money but the nightlife isn't too exclusive and there's plenty of normal, reasonable priced bars to check out.

Belgrade in Serbia for the nightlife down by the waterfront, lots of boat clubs and bars playing different styles of music and Studentki Trig area has plenty of bars. Second biggest city Nis is packed with history, as I mentioned Nazi concentration camp, temple of skulls, roman archeticture and buildings, decent cafe culture and nightlife. Some good clubs including another on a boat which had a good party on it last time I was there.

Sarajevo is incredible, old collbed streets, mosques and churches side by side, a mix of east & west. See the bridge where Arch Duke Ferdinand was shot kicking of WW1, lots of museusms, see the scars of the 90s Balkans war, the remnantas of communism, the 1984 winter olympic site then turned into the bombing site of Sarajevo (the longest seiged city in modern history), the secret tunnels etc. Then Mostar has the famous Stari Most bridge, now re-built after being blown up in the 90s by the war (building bridges in more ways than one) and many buildings where the was is still evident, lots of bullet and shell holes still remain. Nightlife was reasonable but don't recall anywhere too special. One place right in the old historic centre of Sarajevo that was quite popular, was free to get in and started off more like a bar but turned into a club and had silly foam parties and stuff, mostly locals.

[Hokie30]

Awesome post Gringo. +1

Roosh, I say you at least hit one of the Baltic states as you're already in Poland. Perhaps, you can even make a weekend trip to Vilnius or Riga as it's a relatively short drive from Warsaw.

[maestrobaires]

(05-05-2011 02:49 PM)Gringo Wrote:  

I travelled round the former Yugoslavia a few years back, around the end of summer time.

WEATHER:
The weather would fluctuate from boiling hot to torrential rain and thunder storms.

COSTS:
It's cheap, VERY cheap. Couldn't spend my money even with eating out and drinking every night.

TOURISTS:
Not that many tourists around, mostly backpackers and people doing things independently but you don't see them everywhere. No stag parties that I saw.

WOMEN:
Women were a mixed bag, some gorgeous and friendly girls but also lots of girls (and people in general) that don't want to give you the time of day or help you in anyway. Some more interested in ripping you off or being rude even when you're
trying to buy something from them. When even the tourist information offices aren't willing to be nice or helpful you know something is wrong. Also some absolute stars who would go above and beyond to help you (rare).

TRAVEL:
Easy enough to travel around, everywhere is connected by train or bus, just rock up to the station on the day and buy a ticket.

ENGLISH:
English isn't widely spoken but you can get by as there's always someone, it was never a major problem.

FOOD:
Food is pretty dreadful unless you're willing to spend big bucks. Eat from takeaways, street food or in local cafes and small restaurants and the quality is not good. Lots of greasy meat, kebabs etc though you will come across some strange delicasies like horse burgers and kebabs (actually quite good). Even though I'm moaning about how bad the kebabs were the best meal I ate in the Balkans was a chicken kebab dish in Mostar, Bosnia that came with boiled potatoes and was delicious. I don't know how that man made those things (he was the PR guy, waiter, barman & chef!) but he did it well.

HISTORY & CULTURE:
If you're interested in history & culture the Balkans is a good place for it, you've got a mix of cultures, very east meets west in places, influences of Europe and Asia, WW1 was essentially started in Bosnia with the assasination of Arch Duke Ferdinand, then many events in WW2 happening through out the Balkans, communism, break up of Yugoslavia and resulting war in the 90s, roman history etc. We visited former Nazi concentration camps (in pristine condition), Roman structures, medievil castles, temples, remnants of both world wars and much more.

NATURE:
Lots of beautiful and scenic places in Croatia, Bosnia, Slovenia, Serbia. Beaches, countryside, national parks, mountains, happening cities.

NIGHTLIFE:
Nightlife in places like Zagreb, Split, Dubrovnik, Lbulbjana, Belgrade, Nis, Sarajevo, Mostar, Sofia. Too long ago to remember names of clubs or bars but there's plenty around and find a friendly local or hostel / hotel staff member they'll happily tell you where to go

MY HIGHLIGHTS:
Some of the highlights for me: Ljubljana in Slovenia, Split in Croatia, Nis in Serbia & most importantly Sarajevo & Mostar in Bosnia which are some of the favourite places I've visited, just fascinating.

I'd recommend spending a day or two in Ljubljana seeing all the sights then partying at night, it's a small capital city but a big student town so lots of parties and beautiful girls. Even the ugly girls here are good looking. The big thing when I went seemed to be local white guys dressed up in hip-hop gear, i.e. oversized clothes and bling bling, the locals loved it. There's all sorts of nightlife here from commercial to underground techno squat raves.

Hitting the coasts and islands of Croatia (Split, Dubrovnik and many others) for the beaches and nightlife as well as a good buit of history and culture to take in during the day. Split tends to get a more upmarket crowd and lots of people with boats and money but the nightlife isn't too exclusive and there's plenty of normal, reasonable priced bars to check out.

Belgrade in Serbia for the nightlife down by the waterfront, lots of boat clubs and bars playing different styles of music and Studentki Trig area has plenty of bars. Second biggest city Nis is packed with history, as I mentioned Nazi concentration camp, temple of skulls, roman archeticture and buildings, decent cafe culture and nightlife. Some good clubs including another on a boat which had a good party on it last time I was there.

Sarajevo is incredible, old collbed streets, mosques and churches side by side, a mix of east & west. See the bridge where Arch Duke Ferdinand was shot kicking of WW1, lots of museusms, see the scars of the 90s Balkans war, the remnantas of communism, the 1984 winter olympic site then turned into the bombing site of Sarajevo (the longest seiged city in modern history), the secret tunnels etc. Then Mostar has the famous Stari Most bridge, now re-built after being blown up in the 90s by the war (building bridges in more ways than one) and many buildings where the was is still evident, lots of bullet and shell holes still remain. Nightlife was reasonable but don't recall anywhere too special. One place right in the old historic centre of Sarajevo that was quite popular, was free to get in and started off more like a bar but turned into a club and had silly foam parties and stuff, mostly locals.

sweet! did you hit any of croatian isles?

as of girls and ease of getting a bang or two the baltics is outdoing YU anytime. forget YU as a place to score the new flags

i am yugoslavian myself (though spent most of my life abroad) and not that content with women ''back home''

hungary and bulgaria are a lot better around there

[Super Etoile]

(05-05-2011 02:49 PM)Gringo Wrote:  

..

Knocked it outta the park!

Having said that......

Quote:

FOOD:
Food is pretty dreadful unless you're willing to spend big bucks. Eat from takeaways, street food or in local cafes and small restaurants and the quality is not good. Lots of greasy meat, kebabs etc though you will come across some strange delicasies like horse burgers and kebabs (actually quite good). Even though I'm moaning about how bad the kebabs were the best meal I ate in the Balkans was a chicken kebab dish in Mostar, Bosnia that came with boiled potatoes and was delicious. I don't know how that man made those things (he was the PR guy, waiter, barman & chef!) but he did it well.

It may be greasy, and I'm sure it's bad for you, but Burek (the Bosnian variety at least) and Ćevapčići is my idea of heaven. Outside of the ex-YU (and if I'm being really militant, outside of Bosnia) I wouldn't even bother, but next time I go, that's all I'm eating!

(05-05-2011 04:57 PM)Hokie30 Wrote:  

Awesome post Gringo. +1

Roosh, I say you at least hit one of the Baltic states as you're already in Poland. Perhaps, you can even make a weekend trip to Vilnius or Riga as it's a relatively short drive from Warsaw.

7-9 hours is short now? Fly Air Baltic, the prices look reasonable enough (assuming you're going to Riga).

[Vacancier Permanent]

Gringo,
Solid info about the Ex-Yougoslavia region. How was safety there? Was it a concern or no as long as you used common sense like anywhere else? Did the girls appear more friendlier in one region/city over the other or were they about the same everywhere in the region? Of course, generally speaking.
Roosh,
I think if you were to spend a month or so in a given city in the Baltics, you would have a good success. Keep in mind these places are being bombarded with the horny brit and other Euro guys that come for a weekend or so. I'd stay in a 2nd tier city, get an apart for a month or so, go out, make friends and take it from there and I don't believe it'd be that difficult once they realize that you're not the typical drunk brit type of guy, then you'd have a very good time there. As to the Balkans, I haven't been there yet, tough it is high on my list, and all the people from there I have met and known here have been friendly, warm and cool people. Both guys and girls. Howeve,r never discuss religion or politics with them as it could lead to violence and more. These are very proud and nationalistic and patriotic people, especially after what happened there in the early 90's. So when you go there, make sure you know a bit about their history in order not to make any blunder on the historical, cultural aspect. Girls are mad fly there based on the ones I have known here and very passionate in both ways (good and awesomely fun but also savagely and fiercely possessive).

[OSL]

I think Roosh is exotic-looking enough that he won't be mistaken for a Brit. I don't know if Roosh is more Persian looking or Turkish looking, since I can't tell the difference, but I know that Turkish dudes were doing well in Vilnius.

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

I live in the Balkans (Croatia) and have visited Slovenia, Bosnia and Serbia. I'll give you my 2cc based on the entire region and adding any specifics for Split itself, where I live.

WEATHER: Very good overall. The worst thing that can happen is a light rain now and then. In Split, there's a lot of wind.

FOOD: Continental food is spicy or greasy and features meat heavily. Ćevapi are a local (Bosnian -> spread to other countries) delicacy and I recommend trying them. The fast food culture is very spread.
In Split, Mediterranean food is more prevalent, using fish, olive oil and rare vegetables. It's very good and if it's not your taste, you might come upon a Mexican / Chinese / whatever restaurant instead.

PRICES: Compared to the US, low, but not nearly as low as you'd expect. Croatia is no Bulgaria or Czech Republic with undervalued currency or the like. Bosnia is the cheapest of the region (prices roughly half that of Croatia), followed by Macedonia and Serbia. Slovenia uses the Euro exclusively, Croatia uses the Kuna (Kn) exclusively, while in other countries you can pay with Euros even if they nominally have other currencies (Serbian Dinar and Bosnian Mark).

SAFETY: Safety is good. There might be some pickpocketing, but nothing serious. Police is reasonably competent. Most tourists that die here die in accidents from stupidly swimming too far out or getting lost while trying to climb mountain ranges by themselves. If you hear talk about a war, that was 20 years ago, so don't worry.

TRANSPORT: The entire region is well connected with frequent trains and buses. Macedonia is an exception, being much poorer and very far east.

SIGHTSEEING: Nature is very beautiful and diverse wherever you travel. The islands are fascinating as well. In urban areas, the old city cores are well preserved and worth seeing (Split's center is a 1700-year old Roman palace and Dubrovnik has the finest medieval walls in the region). Solid museums and galleries are either free or very cheap.

LANGUAGE: Croatian, Serbian and Bosnian are 100% interchangeable and practically one language. Foreigners have troubles with pronunciation and declension, which belong to the Slavic family, like Polish and Russian. Learning a few words will gain you some favor from the locals. Most people speak at least a smattering of English so you can get around.

GIRLS: The girls are hot and the obesity epidemic hasn't reached here yet. The ONS culture isn't widespread, but it does happen, with clubs being the main area for that. Tolerance for beta behavior is low. Some girls will write off strangers, but the other part will be eager for them.

Roosh, with his dark, tall appearance, will be at the same time thought of as a Gypsy (negative), but that might also help him score with girls, since dark & tall that is the epitome of handsome look here.

[Imthattypeofguy]

(05-05-2011 02:09 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

I wanted to get some feedback from guys who have been to both parts of the world. What are the main differences between them in categories like women, pickup, logistics, cost, weather, and fun factor? If a guy could only focus on one area, which should it be?

On the forum I feel that the Balkans are more highly praised, that the Baltics, while nice, is more touristy and harder to pull, even though the women may be hotter. Any thoughts/rumors/opinions?

I know this isn't answering your question but I have a few friends (male and female) from the Balkans (Bosnia, Kosovo, Croatia and Macedonia). Additionally i know an expat that's in Kosovo now.

If i ask now, they all will say their respective country is the better. once you narrow down spot i can hit them up for info.

[billy]

All I can say is that having been in Tallinn twice this year it has changed alot in the last 7 years. There appear to be no women left in the city. You will see some nice ones in the day time but midweek evenings have turned into absolute sausage fests. I can't believe how bad its got I went to a bar that used to have a 100 percent sucess rate for me and it had 2-3 girls and 200 men inside. I hope weekends are better but based on my last two trips Tallinn seems to be game over for chasing women midweek which does not bode well for the weekends either.

[Roosh]

Don't want to hijack the thread but...

I will say that my appearance is very ambiguous, and comments from guys on the forum about how they think I would be received in Scandinavian have been off. I have one of the most neutral skin tones possible and can fit in just about anywhere except Africa and Asia. Girls usually think I'm Latin.

This is why generalizing about how a man will be received in a country based on his appearance is dangerous and, ultimately, a waste of time. There's just too much individual variance. If I had to break it down it'd be

10% race
90% everything else

I have noticed in the past year the forum is moving away from obsessing over race as much. It's a factor but a small one and not one I use to travel. I do consider if I look different than the locals, but not if Middle Eastern or Latin guys are received well or not. Game, good logistics, and proper venue selection can trump any issue with race.

[Gringo]

Quote:

Solid info about the Ex-Yougoslavia region. How was safety there?

I didn't have any problems though I always try and be aware of my surroundings where ever I go. Some gypsies around, looking sketchy but none of them actually bothered me.

Quote:

Did the girls appear more friendlier in one region/city over the other or were they about the same everywhere in the region? Of course, generally speaking.

It was a mixed bag, we met some of the rudest people ever in Bulgaria for example but also some of the nicest via Couchsurfing. Every country we went we'd have problems with people being unhelpful and rude, ignoring us in shops and bars when we want to get served or trying to short change us but you get used to it. Would often ask people for directions or where something was and could either get totally ignored or the person would take us right to where we needed to be and was so happy we had come to visit their country. The girls are no different, some will be really warm and friendly others ice cold and rude.

[Roosh]

(05-06-2011 07:47 AM)billy Wrote:  

All I can say is that having been in Tallinn twice this year it has changed alot in the last 7 years. There appear to be no women left in the city. You will see some nice ones in the day time but midweek evenings have turned into absolute sausage fests. I can't believe how bad its got I went to a bar that used to have a 100 percent sucess rate for me and it had 2-3 girls and 200 men inside. I hope weekends are better but based on my last two trips Tallinn seems to be game over for chasing women midweek which does not bode well for the weekends either.

So where the women going? Have you been to Tartu?

[tomtud]

The balkans can be viewed as to each their own. I am from that part of the world (parents) and had a horrible time when i went years ago (that is another story). Gringo mentioned the food is horrible, well to each their own, I can disagree I think the food is diverse from having the sea (fish) to inland (wheat) making pastries etc you have a rich diet available. All I can say is that to each their own.

I have been to Croatia, and the beaches yes, are pebble not sand. (some are not easy on the feet) but the water is definitly crystal clear. There is an episode of the E show Wild On and Croatia is featured (the adriatic I think its called). See for yourself. Scenic mountains as a backdrop to historic towns provides some scenic views.

The women, well you have a mix of everything. With the area being sandwhiched in south eastern europe you have the italian, german, hungarian, and turkish influences throughout their entire culture. Aside from making this area a rich blend in culture etc, the women have a unique and at the same time diverse look.

Like most of the world, this part of the world is in the middle of a financial crisis. I have been told that if you flash a little money around the girls will dig ya. If you don't drive a nice car, they won't date you type of mentality. This is common in many other countries as well.

The balkans are a cafe culture. They love to smoke and drink coffee (liquor as well).... so, hanging in cafes are the prime locations to meet chicks. Plus they walk awfully a lot hence why they don't have the fat asses like they do in the west. The walking is what keeps them fit.

[thegmanifesto]

"They love to smoke and drink coffee (liquor as well)"

Nice.

Can you smoke in bars?

What time do bars close?

[The Duke]

(05-06-2011 07:56 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

Can you smoke in bars?

What time do bars close?

In Belgrade, some bars are so thick in smoke you can barely see the beautiful babies all around you. The bars close late, sometimes after sunrise.

[Gringo]

Quote:

am from that part of the world (parents) and had a horrible time when i went years ago (that is another story). Gringo mentioned the food is horrible, well to each their own, I can disagree I think the food is diverse from having the sea (fish) to inland (wheat) making pastries etc you have a rich diet available. All I can say is that to each their own.

I really didn't see much diversity in the food tbh, I was getting sick fed up of greasy meat laden plates of food. Even restaurants which were recommended to us by locals as being good turned out to be pretty awful. We could have just been unlucky on the whole but spent about 2 months in the region and only recall eating one good dish in Mostar. Each to their own or not you have to admit the foods never going to win any awards or be classed as the best in the world.

Quote:

The balkans are a cafe culture

Veyr true. More often than not you'll find yourself having a beer in an outdoor seating area of a cafe like place, the streets are lined with these sorts of places.

[maestrobaires]

boys, you forgot novi sad. also you forgot the istria region. these are the coolest and most open minded areas back there

[The Duke]

Yeah Novi Sad has a good night life, especially for it's size. The Exit Festival is dope.

Gringo is right in that the food is heavy, but to say it's aweful, that's just his opinion. Serbia has tasty salads, high-quality free-range meat, awesome bread, delicious yogurt, and fantastic pastries.

They use old school farming methods and the food tastes real. The recipees are boring, but the actual indegrediants in the food are of high quality and taste good on their own. In the UK and America, the food production has been industralized and flavor has been lost.

There is little foreign influence in the food in Serbia, so you dont get much international variety. I was disappointed there was no hummus despite the place being previously conquered by Turks. I was disappointed that I could not find "cilantro" anywhere in the country. In four months of living there I only found habanero peppers once. At the Mexican restaurant in Novi Sad, my burrito unfortunately came with potatoes and mushrooms. The Chineese food there is also not authentic.

[Gringo]

It's not that I just didn't like the taste I found it to be of poor quality, badly cooked, always really fatty and covered in grease. I did eat some nice salads in Croatia but a salad is rarely exciting for me. Pastries everywhere in the Balkans but nothing that really blew me away. Anyway enough negativity from me on the food front, it's an incredible place to visit for many different reasons and foods hardly going to stop anyone. Well recommended that people go on a trip to the Balkans.

[Peoloom]

Balkans. More variety, more cities, better nightlife, and way more stuff to do. I'd start in Croatia (maybe even Slovenia) and make my way down the coast to Montenegro.

[tomtud]

(05-07-2011 05:26 PM)Gringo Wrote:  

It's not that I just didn't like the taste I found it to be of poor quality, badly cooked, always really fatty and covered in grease. I did eat some nice salads in Croatia but a salad is rarely exciting for me. Pastries everywhere in the Balkans but nothing that really blew me away. Anyway enough negativity from me on the food front, it's an incredible place to visit for many different reasons and foods hardly going to stop anyone. Well recommended that people go on a trip to the Balkans.

Well put!! Just one thing I can guarantee to a degree is that customer service isn't gonna be on par as we may be used to. I found customer service and waitstaff pretty much terrible with the exception of a few people. So folks, be weary that this may happen.

In this region especially the cities, you will find a lot of people who speak english. So, conversing shouldn't be a problem for the most part.

[maestrobaires]

they definitely speak better english than most of east europeans. pretty much anyone knows at least basics

food can vary a lot. in terms of quality too

the balkans or the baltics? depends what for do you go. women or a general travel experience. if women, go up north. if culture, history, nightlife, scenery, go down south

going to the balkans for a bang is not a good idea. well, bulgaria is cool... but not exYU

[hydrogonian]

Quote:

The big thing when I went seemed to be local white guys dressed up in hip-hop gear, i.e. oversized clothes and bling bling, the locals loved it.

Im glad to hear the best of our trends as infiltrated deep into Europe.

Quote:

GIRLS: The girls are hot and the obesity epidemic hasn't reached here yet. The ONS culture isn't widespread, but it does happen, with clubs being the main area for that. Tolerance for beta behavior is low. Some girls will write off strangers, but the other part will be eager for them.

This is all music to my ears. To me, this translates as "The women are still very feminine".

These women dont pretend to put up with beta game to further the guise of gender equality, but instead outwardly demand that men behave according to the natural law (which states that men behave dominantly). There is no hypocrisy here, no doubetalk, and no confusion for younger developing guys.

Unless she's a diehard Muslim, it doesnt matter to my sex life whether or not ONS culture is widespread. Id leave the feminized ONS culture in the States in a heartbeat to game truly feminine women in a non-ONS culture. You go on a few more dates, but get infinetly higher quality female companionship.

[Gringo]

Quote:

I found customer service and waitstaff pretty much terrible with the exception of a few people

This is true, customer service hasn't reached these parts yet. You can be blatantly ignored in shops and restaurants, over-charged, short changed, no one seems to have service with a smile etc. It annoyed me at first but I learn to ignore it. When they start the "I've got no change" shit in shops I would begin picking up expensive items and saying "ok I'll take these instead" and the change soon came out.