[Menace]

I just basically want a flat stomach, with potentially just a hint of definition. Girls basically don't care. I'm doing it for me. I want to model my hero, Zyzz. (this is joke).

Has anyone here done this starting from being ectomorphic later in life, like 35+, with no prior athletic background? That's where I'm coming from. I'm thinking 165 lbs @ 5'9" and 10-13% bf is realistic for someone like me. Beyond that, I'd probably have to get on a cycle, which I don't want to do.

[Giovonny]

(02-02-2015 03:10 PM)Menace Wrote:  

The one thing I am not doing is walking any appreciable distance

I don't think walking is the answer for you.

In my opinion, you should try to clean up your diet and do "high intensity core cardio." (core cardio is cardio that is done primarily by using the muscles in your core.)

*****

Now, I want to defend 6packs and the desire to have a 6pack.

(02-05-2015 07:30 AM)MaleDefined Wrote:  

What's the appeal and stress of having a six pack?

The appeal of having a 6 pack is basically the appeal of having a great body.

The stress of having a 6 pack is the discipline that is required to get and keep one.

(02-05-2015 07:30 AM)MaleDefined Wrote:  

Are you trying to be a physically fit and healthy man, or impress someone else?

I'm trying to be healthy #1

But, I am also trying to be an impressive man.

Guys buy clothes, jewelry, and cars to appear more impressive.

Building their body is similar.

(02-05-2015 08:01 AM)H1N1 Wrote:  

I don't understand the fascination with the 6 pack

It's rooted in the "ideal male image".

Greek sculptures depicted men with lean abs, etc.



***

I am not knocking guys who don't want a 6pack.

I am defending the guys that do.

[Menace]

(02-05-2015 02:16 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

(02-02-2015 03:10 PM)Menace Wrote:  

The one thing I am not doing is walking any appreciable distance

I don't think walking is the answer for you.

In my opinion, you should try to clean up your diet and do "high intensity core cardio." (core cardio is cardio that is done primarily by using the muscles in your core.)

Gio, I believe my diet is clean. 150 g protein, 60 g fat, 60-70 g carbs (from clean sources). Hard to imagine that I could do anything different, but I am open to advice diet wise.

What are some high intensity core cardio exercises? I think I need to do some cardio to get where I need to be; I mean you have seen my body type, so you know.

[ElJefe]

I am almost 3 months into IF now.

Have dropped about 15lbs (from about 226) and about 4 inches around my waist. Have not been eating especially clean, I go carousing 3 times a month or so.

The next stage is more effective diet planning, so I am gonna see if I can't make a week's worth of food on Sunday. Hoping to drop another 20lbs or so by mid-April.

Am also suffering from a shoulder injury that's made a lot of exercises impossible, but I am gonna see the doctor Tuesday. I hope he'll prescibe a serious regimen of NSAIDs.

[The Reactionary Tree]

Menace, what is your daily caloric intake?

I have been doing 5x5 plus accessory work for about 7 months now. I have made all kinds of gains. I am noticeably more muscular and leaner. A nice recomposition is taking place. However, I still have a small gut. I eat extremely clean as well. I have pinpointed my problem and it may be yours as well. Even though you are lifting hard and eating clean, you may simply be eating too many calories.

I need to add some HIIT or low intensity cardio (walking an hour a day) to my regimen and that will surely help. However, I think in order to really slim down, calories must be counted. Counting calories sucks balls.

I went to one of those basal metabolic rate calculators online, and given my age, height, weight, etc (29yo, 5'9" 195lbs) my BMR is 1900 kcal/day. So to lose weight, I would have to eat less than that.

Given your height, age, weight, you probably have a BMR under 2000 kcal/day as well. Something to consider.

One of my problems is that I do not want to lose strength gains that I have made the past 6 months and a huge cut in calories would definitely do that. The only way to retain strength gains and to lose weight is to cut calories just under maintenance by like 200-300 calories/day.

So the rule of thumb is you must burn 3500 calories to lose a pound of fat. So if you maintained a 300 kcal/day deficit for 12 weeks (84 days), you would burn a total of 25,200 calories in that time period. Which would come out to 7.2 pounds of fat lost.

Obviously it is nowhere near as efficient as running 500+ kcal/day deficit but slow and steady wins the race. This way you get to retain your strength gains. It is a massive pain in the ass to count calories every day for 3 months straight but it is the way to a flat stomach.

[H1N1]

What you eat and when you eat it are also critical. Carbs should be timed around your workout, protein should be high. Bread supposedly breaks down to release a compound that makes you feel hungrier than you actually are, and my anecdotal view is that I've always leaned out faster when I cut bread, even if I replaced the calories with a better choice of carb.

Also, fasted cardio, there is a reason every successful bodybuilder (more or less) swears by it. It really does work.

[H1N1]

(02-05-2015 02:16 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

(02-02-2015 03:10 PM)Menace Wrote:  

The one thing I am not doing is walking any appreciable distance

I don't think walking is the answer for you.

In my opinion, you should try to clean up your diet and do "high intensity core cardio." (core cardio is cardio that is done primarily by using the muscles in your core.)

*****

Now, I want to defend 6packs and the desire to have a 6pack.

(02-05-2015 07:30 AM)MaleDefined Wrote:  

What's the appeal and stress of having a six pack?

The appeal of having a 6 pack is basically the appeal of having a great body.

The stress of having a 6 pack is the discipline that is required to get and keep one.

(02-05-2015 07:30 AM)MaleDefined Wrote:  

Are you trying to be a physically fit and healthy man, or impress someone else?

I'm trying to be healthy #1

But, I am also trying to be an impressive man.

Guys buy clothes, jewelry, and cars to appear more impressive.

Building their body is similar.

(02-05-2015 08:01 AM)H1N1 Wrote:  

I don't understand the fascination with the 6 pack

It's rooted in the "ideal male image".

Greek sculptures depicted men with lean abs, etc.



***

I am not knocking guys who don't want a 6pack.

I am defending the guys that do.

I don't actually disagree with any of this. What I would say is that we are not all created equal when it comes to the ease with which we can obtain, and maintain a six pack.

For me personally, I can eat what I like, and never lose a flat stomach, with abs clearly visible when flexed, but largely smooth with feint definition unflexed. When I went after a clearly defined 6 pack that didn't require flexing/good lighting to look pretty unflexed, I literally had to make it an all consuming goal. Strength and athletic goals went into maintenance at best, and leaness was the sole area I was able to progress. Once I had the 6 pack, without loosing muscle, I had to work equally hard to keep it, again at the expense of my physical goals. This was an experiment conducted over the course of about 6 months.

My initial post probably came off a little absolutist, as I think you should strive to be as close to the Greek ideal as possible. for a good many people though, I believe that probably means walking around at a body fat just above the point where abs are clearly defined unflexed in good lighting. If you (one) can get them, keep them, and still smash high level performance goals, then good for you, and that is the standard you should hold yourself too. My only point is that performance should be a higher priority (not an excuse to be a slob or make poor dietary choices) than sub 10% bf, as for many people that is a competing goal in itself.

[RexImperator]

I think it's known that most athletes aren't totally "ripped" but carry just a little more fat than that.

Also, Greek statues aren't "realistic" but were "idealistic". Some of the proportions were deliberately distorted for aesthetic purposes.

[Giovonny]

(02-05-2015 02:58 PM)Menace Wrote:  

Gio, I believe my diet is clean.

Hard to imagine that I could do anything different

Like we discussed, improve the quality of your meats. Pre-packaged, pre marinated, low end meats are often hugely inferior to fresh, organic/wild meat.

Those low quality meats are filled with sodium, preservatives, artificial flavors and colors, etc.

In terms of getting lean and losing that last bit of belly fat... Quality of Meat is a very important factor.

Low quality meat is harder for your stomach to breakdown and process.

And, improve the freshness of your fruits and vegetables.

Frozen is okay in moderation but strive for more freshness.

(02-05-2015 02:58 PM)Menace Wrote:  

What are some high intensity core cardio exercises? I think I need to do some cardio to get where I need to be.

You definitely need some "cardio".

But, not traditional low intensity "cardio". (Except for walking and hiking)

You need a very specific type of cardio..

You need "Core Specific Cardio"

Here are some movements to think about..

(0:15-0:40)

(0:15-0:36)

(0:15-0:40)

(0:15-0:44)

Do each of these movements consecutively for 5-10 minutes EACH, for a total of around 30 minutes.

Do this without taking too many breaks. You should work up with enough intensity that you start to sweat.

That is "Core Specific Cardio".

---

Here are a few other ideas to chew on..

Aggressive Swimming and Core focused Yoga are also very good things to consider.

[civpro]

Come March I'm gonna go on a cut to lose some substantial bodyfat. My lifting routine will be based around 4 lifts (Bench Press, Bent Over Row, Back Squat, Deadlift). My diet will be paleo. I actually do not like eating meat every day but I will need to for the satiation. I spent much of 2014 dieting but I failed due to adherence issues: I would diet hard on the weekdays but then go out drinking and drunk-eating on the weekends because I was depressed because I didn't have a gf. I have stopped drinking this year.

[Menace]

Gio, thank you very much. I think you summed it up best when you said I ate like a poor person. I really am/was, and there is absolutely no need for it. I've got replacement meals/recipes identified, and I will switch to some of the other fresh foods we talked about.

[DJ-Matt]

WB abs workout girl.

[pialo]

(01-07-2015 07:30 AM)Tengen Wrote:  

And recently Victor Pride wrote a blog article - http://victorpride.com/how-to-go-from-fa...n-8-weeks/

This one interests me. But at the moment 6ft 170 pounds, 33 years old and have a BMI of about 22. I think I need to drop at least another 10 pound as the stomach fat i have just wont go away.

Only thing im questioning with the Victor Pride diet is where was he before he started and what was his lifting program during the diet phase? I'm skinny fat and have no desire to be bulky but would rather be lean.

Is anyone else in a similar situation>?

[samsamsam]

That Victor Pride article mentioned Dandelion root as a diuretic. But it has a lot of zinc. Anyone taking it plus ZMA?