[jc6586]

http://www.georgefm.co.nz/Top-50-party-c...fault.aspx

and if so, what should the ranking be?

[Moma]

(12-06-2014 12:26 PM)jc6586 Wrote:  

http://www.georgefm.co.nz/Top-50-party-c...fault.aspx

and if so, what should the ranking be?

If Toronto is on that list, then Somalia should also be there.

[rcraig33hb]

It depends what this articles definition of a "party city" is. If your looking for a city that's lively from Monday to Sunday, each evening and going strong into the early morning, then Toronto would not fall into this category. I have been in small towns in Cuba & Mexico that demonstrated what I described above.

I always stay in downtown T.O. after work with the boys on a Friday and hop from bar to bar. Last night, we started at Sheraton Hotel Bar to Pravda to Bier Market to Tilted Kilt to The Keg and ended off at Spice Route. Out of those spots, Spice was partially decent. The other spots were either half empty or loaded with dudes.

If the article is referring to night clubs, I would say the night clubs are good but nothing special. Toronto is over saturated with bars, clubs, restaurants and lounges scattered all over the city. So it is hard to establish a central social location and find "where the party is at"

Again, all depends on what you define as a "party city". I would not put Toronto on this list if there are cities like Vegas and Bangkok also listed.

[LeightonBlackstock]

Pattaya lol

[kamasutra]

(12-06-2014 12:26 PM)jc6586 Wrote:  

http://www.georgefm.co.nz/Top-50-party-c...fault.aspx

and if so, what should the ranking be?

Goa, Not anymore.

1990-2002 Yes

Post 2002 No

[DjembaDjemba]

(12-06-2014 12:58 PM)rcraig33hb Wrote:  

It depends what this articles definition of a "party city" is. If your looking for a city that's lively from Monday to Sunday, each evening and going strong into the early morning, then Toronto would not fall into this category. I have been in small towns in Cuba & Mexico that demonstrated what I described above.

I always stay in downtown T.O. after work with the boys on a Friday and hop from bar to bar. Last night, we started at Sheraton Hotel Bar to Pravda to Bier Market to Tilted Kilt to The Keg and ended off at Spice Route. Out of those spots, Spice was partially decent. The other spots were either half empty or loaded with dudes.

If the article is referring to night clubs, I would say the night clubs are good but nothing special. Toronto is over saturated with bars, clubs, restaurants and lounges scattered all over the city. So it is hard to establish a central social location and find "where the party is at"

Again, all depends on what you define as a "party city". I would not put Toronto on this list if there are cities like Vegas and Bangkok also listed.

I haven't partied in Toronto for over 2 years now, and strangely enough it seems nothing has changed.

Toronto is a sausage fest and boring, but most importantly it's no longer Canada's top destination to make money, practically making the city quite useless.

[Moma]

Djemba, yea, all the lure from Toronto seems to have ended. I still chat to quite a few spars there and I urge them to get up and go. There is a lot of pride with men in leaving cities. Their ego may not want to admit that they can't conquer the city but out of all the cities I have abandoned, Toronto is the one I am the most indifferent about.
I'm telling one of my friends there right now to up and go to Alberta.

[beta_plus]

If you're a chick, especially a sub 5, then yes. A guy, no.

[SuperTwin22]

Hell No! Toronto should not be on a list of "Party Cities." Toronto is just a boring big city. Glad I got out of there when I did which was a few months ago.

Toronto a party city? = LMFAO!!!

[kosko]

Toronto is Buffalo, New york with some tall buildings and more immigrants, don't get it twisted.

[Bad Hussar]

The fact that Toronto is Canada's A1 city should cause embarrassment and shame to each and every Canadian, especially the older Quebec separatists, who's fault it is that Toronto has this distinction. To any sane person Montreal should have remained in this position, but the Quebec separatists just couldn't let go of the slim chance of creating their own toy country and/or extorting a bit of money from the rest of Canada by threatening to separate. It's disgusting and a cause of shame on all separatists and their descendants to the third and fourth generation.

Anyway, a bit of history. Up until a few decades ago Montreal was the A1 city in Canada, with the main stock exchange and the headquarters of most national companies etc. Due to Quebec separatists agitation they all got spooked and most of them decamped to Toronto. Historically Toronto just isn't up to the responsibility that has been foisted on it. Maybe in 50 years time they will be, who knows. But now they are struggling. Many of the more delusional Toronto residents like to compare themselves to New York (City), but this is just cringe worthy embarrassing. They don't have the history or organic development to come anywhere close. As stated above they are more Buffalo, NY than New York, NY.

Imagine how much more interesting Canada would be as a country if Montreal was it's prime city. Canada would have a genuinely bilingual and "multi-cultural" prime city. As things stand now they have Toronto, which is milquetoast. Also, it is my honest belief that the separatists have severely harmed the prospects of the local Francophone population. Since so much business activity has moved to Toronto an ambitious French speaking citizen from quebec must now make his way there to get ahead. So they can have their precious French only public signs in Montreal, but their most ambitious must now move to an effectively entirely English city to get ahead. They have severely harmed their own people and Canada as a whole without gaining their precious "country" or any hope of doing so for many decades. Their "gains", such as they are should frankly be a source of embarrassment for them since they are so small and petty. The French only signs I mentioned, and the odd federal government make work project to appease the Quebecois. Very small minded and ultimately harmful to their own...

[Americas]

^ Can we not go down this path? That is a hilariously short-sighted look at the development of Toronto/Montreal and frankly, it's not a topic worth discussing in this section of the board.

[Moma]

Me and some buddies went to Buffalo to club from Toronto and we had more fun there.

[Bad Hussar]

(12-08-2014 12:28 PM)Americas Wrote:  

^ Can we not go down this path? That is a hilariously short-sighted look at the development of Toronto/Montreal and frankly, it's not a topic worth discussing in this section of the board.

Admit it's a bit off-topic, but how would you view the developments? Do you think if there had been no separatist movement the centre of commercial power in Canada would still have moved to Toronto? To me, the fact that it did move resulted in the negative effects I mentioned, but I am always happy to hear different opinions.

[Americas]

(12-08-2014 01:24 PM)Bad Hussar Wrote:  

Admit it's a bit off-topic, but how would you view the developments? Do you think if there had been no separatist movement the centre of commercial power in Canada would still have moved to Toronto? To me, the fact that it did move resulted in the negative effects I mentioned, but I am always happy to hear different opinions.

Uh, whatever, I'll bite. This thread doesn't really have that much value anyways.

In short, the situation is a lot more complex than you led on. And I'll tell you why...

One thing that needs to be unpacked is that the "separatist movement" was actually a nationalistic off-shoot of a much larger social and economic movement at the time, the Quiet Revolution. I'll get back to this a bit later.

When looking at large scale economic shifts, you have to consider the "push and pull effect." Your post only highlighted a push effect, and not even really the full picture either.

Montreal was a dominant economic force in early Canadian history because of well, mainly one thing: Montreal was the largest port in Canada for much of it's early history. Despite Montreal being inland, it had a massive port and most of the logistics, including its adjoining massive rail network (the headquarters of the CN Rail - Canada's national railway company actually still exists in Montreal), made much of all goods flowing into Canada going through Montreal.

However, with the introduction of the Lachine Canal, and more importantly, the building of the St. Laurent Seaway ships no longer had to stop at Montreal to unload, they could go all the way to Toronto. This development broke the monopoly on logistics that Montreal had and occurred way before any nationalistic movements ever came to light.

Secondly, there is also the development of the US to take into account. The Great Lakes area was already greatly expanding due to a number of reasons, not least of which was the rise of the auto industry, which is quite interlinked economically with Southern Canada.

Immigration really started to pick up in the Toronto and periphery regions allowing Toronto to more than double in size throughout the post-war periods.

Considering the economic and social growth of the region, and the fact that it was actually becoming a transportation hub of its own (rather than the historical off-shoot of Montreal), the cards were already stacked way before any social movement in Quebec ever took place. Toronto was quickly becoming a lucrative location due to its proximity to a number of highly populated and economically prosperous regions both in Southern Canada and Northern USA. In fact, the TSX actually became the biggest stock exchange as early as the 1930's. This is what I am referring to as the "pull" effect.

Back to the separatist movement. It's a lot more complex than you portrayed in your post. And those "little benefits" such as french only signs really has nothing to do with the whole process.

If you go back to the way the province and particularly Montreal was socially economically developed before the Quiet Revolution you will notice that Quebecois people actually had a very disadvantageous position in their own province at the time. Socially, and economically, the English population of Montreal dominated the city and even provincial politics. Quebecois were mostly pushed into the Eastern parts of Montreal, had low education, and worked in the lower rungs of the job available. In contrast, the English from the West of Montreal worked in banking, transportation, owned many of the major firms, and dominated the top echelon of earners in the city.

The Quiet Revolution was a complex movement that included secularism, eliminating the church, social, and economic tenets within it. The primary goal of this movement was to take back control of the province politically and restore the well-being of Quebecois economically and socially in the province. Many, and I mean, countless things resulted from this movement both good and bad and which I won't go into detail about. However, I will say this: Quebecois in Montreal have a massively greater economic and social position today than they did before that movement took place.

Now, the political uncertainty that resulted from the Quiet Revolution and especially its nationalistic off-shoot did play a significant role in the movement of many headquarters and businesses, particularly banking, to Toronto (and not just Toronto, basically just West). HOWEVER, this is far from the only reason it occurred, both economically and socially.

In a sense, the cards were already stacked and the social movement was just a catalyst for the shift from Montreal to Toronto as the dominant economic center of Canada.

[Bad Hussar]

^^^
Thanks for the detailed post America's. I tend to get emotional about it because I truly believe both that Montreal would make a much better prime city for Canada than Toronto, and that this would be better for all Montrealers, both Anglophone and Francophone. It may have been a fait accompli, as you say, I don't really know. One bone to pick maybe is the observation that New York is still the USA's A1 city despite the Erie canal being usurped by better means of transportation to the midwest. Chicago never overtook New York. Or am I misunderstanding your argument? Also, I had Anglo relatives who lived there during the time of letterbombs in Westmount. Some are still there, but they complain about the business environment in general. It seems sad to me that some had to leave rather than stay and contribute to the city.

I hear what you say about Francophones being at a disadvantage before the separatist movement, but I only wish that they could have achieved their liberation without harming Montreal.

[Americas]

(12-08-2014 03:11 PM)Bad Hussar Wrote:  

^^^
Thanks for the detailed post America's. I tend to get emotional about it because I truly believe both that Montreal would make a much better prime city for Canada than Toronto, and that this would be better for all Montrealers, both Anglophone and Francophone. It may have been a fait accompli, as you say, I don't really know. One bone to pick maybe is the observation that New York is still the USA's A1 city despite the Erie canal being usurped by better means of transportation to the midwest. Chicago never overtook New York. Or am I misunderstanding your argument? Also, I had Anglo relatives who lived there during the time of letterbombs in Westmount. Some are still there, but they complain about the business environment in general. It seems sad to me that some had to leave rather than stay and contribute to the city.

I hear what you say about Francophones being at a disadvantage before the separatist movement, but I only wish that they could have achieved their liberation without harming Montreal.

Well, it wasn't just the transportation, but a large part of it. There are different dynamics at play in the US and Canada. If you have noticed before, Canada was never a majorly developed country. Much of the development took place in the Eastern corridor, and even to this day, Canada really has only three major cities. Contrast that to the US, the East was already highly developed.

New York continued its prominence because it's transportation and seaport advantage was still continued to be supported by major cities such as Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Washington, ect. If you remember, Chicago grew so dramatically in its early history that at one time it was the 5th largest city in the world. But there was a limit to that.

In Canada in contrast, the only really major economic areas were the St. Lawerence region and the Golden Horseshoe. With the growth of the surrounding regions, such as Windsor, Kitchener-Waterloo, ect. Toronto became a natural hub for Canada, whereas Chicago didn't really to the same extent because there was much more development in other regions of the country.

-----

I lived in Montreal for over two years and loved it. Honestly, it's hard to say what it would have been like now if the Quiet Revolution didn't occur. However, one thing that makes Montreal so unique is its Quebecois culture and its uniqueness compared to the rest of Canada. It's also probably the most bilingual city in the world which adds another dimension to it. In fact, this is why I choose Montreal to live in because I don't actually like Canadian/US culture that much in many aspects.

Would Montreal be better today if it didn't happen? Not so sure. Perhaps economically, but socially probably not. At the end of the day, it's not like Montreal has been thrown into the waste bin. It's still an economically powerful and a true cultural capital of the country.

[wutevas_cleva]

Toronto is better then Montreal - maybe not for pussy and partying but in general. Toronto is still a fine city for girls, if you cant get laid thats your problem. Maybe its because ive lived here most of my life but its really quite easy. The only down side is the immigrants, it can get annoying as i like white girls. Whoever said he was trying to get his friend to move to Alberta made me laugh lol Only place i would move to from Toronto is maybe BC.

Also when you get out of Toronto and into other cities/small towns in southern ontario there's tons of hot chicks that are easy as fack.

[Saruman]

(12-08-2014 03:43 PM)Americas Wrote:  

(12-08-2014 03:11 PM)Bad Hussar Wrote:  

^^^
Thanks for the detailed post America's. I tend to get emotional about it because I truly believe both that Montreal would make a much better prime city for Canada than Toronto, and that this would be better for all Montrealers, both Anglophone and Francophone. It may have been a fait accompli, as you say, I don't really know. One bone to pick maybe is the observation that New York is still the USA's A1 city despite the Erie canal being usurped by better means of transportation to the midwest. Chicago never overtook New York. Or am I misunderstanding your argument? Also, I had Anglo relatives who lived there during the time of letterbombs in Westmount. Some are still there, but they complain about the business environment in general. It seems sad to me that some had to leave rather than stay and contribute to the city.

I hear what you say about Francophones being at a disadvantage before the separatist movement, but I only wish that they could have achieved their liberation without harming Montreal.

Well, it wasn't just the transportation, but a large part of it. There are different dynamics at play in the US and Canada. If you have noticed before, Canada was never a majorly developed country. Much of the development took place in the Eastern corridor, and even to this day, Canada really has only three major cities. Contrast that to the US, the East was already highly developed.

New York continued its prominence because it's transportation and seaport advantage was still continued to be supported by major cities such as Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Washington, ect. If you remember, Chicago grew so dramatically in its early history that at one time it was the 5th largest city in the world. But there was a limit to that.

In Canada in contrast, the only really major economic areas were the St. Lawerence region and the Golden Horseshoe. With the growth of the surrounding regions, such as Windsor, Kitchener-Waterloo, ect. Toronto became a natural hub for Canada, whereas Chicago didn't really to the same extent because there was much more development in other regions of the country.

-----

I lived in Montreal for over two years and loved it. Honestly, it's hard to say what it would have been like now if the Quiet Revolution didn't occur. However, one thing that makes Montreal so unique is its Quebecois culture and its uniqueness compared to the rest of Canada. It's also probably the most bilingual city in the world which adds another dimension to it. In fact, this is why I choose Montreal to live in because I don't actually like Canadian/US culture that much in many aspects.

Would Montreal be better today if it didn't happen? Not so sure. Perhaps economically, but socially probably not. At the end of the day, it's not like Montreal has been thrown into the waste bin. It's still an economically powerful and a true cultural capital of the country.

Excellent post, I learned some things.

The other post about the greedy separatists was lame and it targeted a lot of francophones, who voted YES in majority both times (61% in 1995).

Without the nationalist movement, Quebec would not be what it is today, some change was necessary for the long time survival of the French langage and culture in Quebec.

On another subject, Montreal winters are brutal and the city gathers a lot of rain year long and not more than 2000 hours of sunshine, I honestly think having 4.1 million people is great when North Americans have so many other options, including Toronto which has a more mild weather.

In all cases, Montreal is great for game, one with game can align great relationships with top girls or just have fun without needing to leave the confort of North American civilization.

[Saruman]

(12-08-2014 04:07 PM)wutevas_cleva Wrote:  

Toronto is better then Montreal - maybe not for pussy and partying but in general. Toronto is still a fine city for girls, if you cant get laid thats your problem. Maybe its because ive lived here most of my life but its really quite easy. The only down side is the immigrants, it can get annoying as i like white girls. Whoever said he was trying to get his friend to move to Alberta made me laugh lol Only place i would move to from Toronto is maybe BC.

Also when you get out of Toronto and into other cities/small towns in southern ontario there's tons of hot chicks that are easy as fack.

Dude you are compairing a city who fairs last for game in many PUA's mine with one that could rank in the top 5 or to 10 easily, you have the right to your opinion but that's a little bit extreme.

[Americas]

I am actually interested in why people on here have such a bad opinion of Toronto. Granted, I only spent a long weekend there, but it seemed pretty nice to me. I am also thinking about relocating there next year for a while as well.

[Saruman]

(12-08-2014 04:24 PM)Americas Wrote:  

I am actually interested in why people on here have such a bad opinion of Toronto. Granted, I only spent a long weekend there, but it seemed pretty nice to me. I am also thinking about relocating there next year for a while as well.

I personally have nothing against TO, I think the reputation is more about the fact all the girls there seem to be Indian or Asian and that they are a lot of fat girls, but there are some good clubs, any city that has good logistics and good ratio is good for me, I think TO should fait better than many other cities with that size such as Boston, Detroit (of course) and pretty much a ton of cities like Denver, Nashville, Pittsburgh, a bunch of other cities, I know Roosh came out very strong against TO though, I think it had a lot to do about the ratio and bitch shields and self entitled girls.

[Moma]

Toronto sucks. Prove it's not by writing a current data sheet with percentages. Attempts, lays and overall coolness of the city. It's a plastic city full of pretentious posers and soaked in PC juice.
As said before, only immigrants from war stricken countries love it there. It's a FOB paradise. It has all the ingredients to be a super city but it's not. It's listless and dull.

[rudebwoy]

Wutevas - please tell us your secret.

How is Toronto better than Montreal?

[Rang off the Pipe]

That's not the first time I've heard about southern Ontario being a decent game destination. I imagine it's a good area for anyone around Detroit/Toronto since it's most convenient. I guess if one goes to Toronto, they should also check out those areas; but is it really worth going there over Québec or even western Canada?