[SlickyBoy]

Of course, it's your fault they don't like to code and we must change this societal catastrophe.
This trash showed up in my LinkedIn feed; most of the comments were from "you go girl" types and supplicating betas, and even a few "I like to code!" liars from women who had nothing in their profiles demonstrating coding experience or ability other than iPhone navigation.

Quote:

The Real Reason Girls Don't Like to Code

I recently sat down for a visit with friend who is running a program focused on STEM, and his insights into the boy/girl ratio were discouraging. "We offer coding camps and courses and work hard to get the word out to everyone. We send invitations to all of the girl-focused organizations. But last time, we only had one girl show up. This time? None."

A study released by Google indicated that when girls aren't familiar with technology, they view STEM as hard, difficult and boring. But here's the thing: I honestly don't believe that girls are turned off by STEM because it's hard or simply because girls think they're bad at math. Girls aren't wimps or wilting flowers; they don't shrink from challenges just because something isn't a strength. When girls are inspired, when they believe the payoff is worth the risk, discomfort, fear or effort, they can be unrelenting in the pursuit of a goal. Self-doubt doesn't stop a girl when she wants something bad enough.

The problem isn't that girls don't think they can code; the problem is that they don't want to code badly enough to get past any of their doubts or weaknesses. If you think about it, why shouldn't girls be turned off? Think of what we see in movies, television -- or in the news. The entertainment industry rarely portrays "tech" characters with anyone young girls easily identity with; far too often those characters are either bad boy bro-culture or awkward misfits -- neither of which are stereotypes that inspire girls to imagine themselves enjoying a career spent coding. And if you read tech news at all, you know how often it is filled with stories of badly behaving executives, unequal pay for women, and limited opportunities for funding for women in tech. We, as a culture, really aren't doing a very good job of selling tech to girls.

If we are going to get more girls into STEM and have them like it, I firmly believe we need to change the "why" of these programs and events. Consider that have girls have flocked to Girl Scouts for over a century, in large part, because Girl Scouts play to girls' natural strengths of leadership and social problem-solving.

We need to stop telling an entire gender they need to embrace STEM because it's good for their brain or if they don't, boys will get all the good, high-paying jobs. It's not working, and I'm kind of glad, because it means girls aren't buying the logic that they need to do something just because boys do. We need to play to girls' strengths and invite them to participate in projects that create solutions for social issues or problems that they care about -- and then offer accessible tech which empowers girls to stop thinking about doing STEM and just use the technology, developing skills along the way as a means to an end. When STEM is simply a set of skills and tools to help solve problems we care about, it takes the scary out of tech.

Besides, girls most definitely embrace tech -- think of the evolution of selfies since the introduction of camera phones, of Instagram videos and photos with powerful storytelling in the unique framing and juxtaposition of images, and even the storyboarding on Pinterest -- all predominantly female audiences using tech as the background for their creative expression.

Our team at APPCityLife recently flew out to California as a technical sponsor for a local weekend challenge focused on solving congestion problems. When I asked one of the attendees, what motivated her and her companion to come to the event, she said, "We don't either one of us know how to develop apps, so we just showed up hoping someone else here would like our idea enough to take it for their own project and run with it."

I should add that she told me this as she stood next to me moments after she and her team were named the winners. She stood there smiling at her other two team members, shaking her head in dismay. "We won. We won," she said. She paused and then said again, "We won!"

Imagine that.

Imagine waking up early on a rainy Saturday morning to attend a local hackathon -- and being willing to do that without any hope of participating in any meaningful way beyond attempting to convince someone else with the right skills to take your idea and run with it. But when she and her companion heard the announcement that our platform was available to attendees, they wanted to learn more. We initially developed our platform for our own needs of robust app development and management, but its user-friendly interface makes it more easily accessible for those without prior coding experience. The need for such a gateway platform in the civic space inspired us to begin opening it up to the public through events like that weekend's hackathon.

The couple attended our brief bootcamp and eventually teamed up with another attendee. For the rest of the weekend, the three worked under the mentoring of our team to build out their prototype mobile application and test the viability of the original ideas of a woman who believed her solution could improve the experience of riders while helping stimulate the local economy. She showed up with an idea and left with the understanding that she didn't have to give her idea away to someone else with the right skills; she and her team could own it themselves and create their own solution.

It has been one of my proudest moments in my company when we were able to celebrate the success of her team. It was something to realize we were able to offer a portal into this incredibly rich world of tech, and our team of mentors made that experience a positive, rewarding one.

The response since the hackathon has been more than I expected. I was happy with an early win and validation, but I wasn't expecting what followed. Invitations are starting to roll in for our team to bring our platform to civic and tech events across the U.S as well as Mexico City. We've entered very early conversations with a few educational institutions about launching gateway STEM programs. And we have already forged exciting new partnerships with inspiring groups like the Geek Girls Club of the YWCA of the City of New York, which, by the way, is also the oldest women's organization in the U.S.. In fact, our team will host our first bootcamp of the year this coming January in the heart of New York City for high school girls who are actively exploring this rich, exciting world of STEM, whether by traditional means or something else in-between.

The demand is high and growing rapidly. We're a small startup, but we've already imagined great things that we simply got busy and made happen. I am committed to push forward with one of our more lofty goals -- to empower those who have had little or no access or enough valid reasons to enter the world of STEM. I am hoping others will be inspired by our early wins -- like when our civic bootcamp ended up with over 50 percent women in attendance -- and that others will be inspired to support and join our efforts so we can begin to change the "why" for more girls and help shift the metrics just a bit more every time in the right direction. Together, I firmly believe that we erase the real and imagined barriers into tech by creating easier access to gateway platforms which lower the barrier of entry for so many groups who have believed themselves a poor fit for whatever reason within this world of STEM.

That's a pretty powerful "why", don't you think?

I think it's bullshit click bait, but what do I know?

[supadoopa_paratroopa]

Girls can't code because they have small brains designed for emotion, not logic. I am a programmer and I've worked with exactly one woman since 1994 that could write decent code in any of the languages I work with. She was an introverted fat girl that didn't bathe regularly. Kind of like many of the better programmers I've worked with, total odd balls.

Most guys can't code either - its just that men take to the mathematical and logical side of it far more often. It hurts my head that people refuse to accept reality and provable, easily observable sex differences. They even have found that monkeys like human toys based on sex. Male monkeys like to play with trucks. Trucks! They don't even know what the fuck a truck is.

People bring up shit like this need to be reminded that men don't like to teach Kindergarten and work in HR departments, and that the gender disparity is identical. But men don't complain because we instinctually know that teaching small children, being nosey and nursing people back to health are a woman's job.

[SlickyBoy]

I like the logic of the author - "girls play with iPhones, so they are not afraid of technology"

Uh, OK - that makes them about as suitable for coding as it does for them being an auto mechanic, since after all they drive cars.

[AnonymousBosch]

(11-28-2014 01:29 PM)SlickyBoy Wrote:  

The entertainment industry rarely portrays "tech" characters with anyone young girls easily identity with; far too often those characters are either bad boy bro-culture or awkward misfits -- neither of which are stereotypes that inspire girls to imagine themselves enjoying a career spent coding.

Women, always ignoring observable reality of the women-celebrating culture they've already politically-corrected into existence to justify their continued, eternal laziness and mediocrity.

Off the top of my head. I'm sure there's more:

[DannyAlberta]

(11-28-2014 04:43 PM)AnonymousBosch Wrote:  

ramdom thought here but, regarding emily rickards from arrow:

would smash so hard she would end up in that place from the end of the space odyssey movie.

[Socrates]

I believe she is a hacker extraordinaire on Agents of Shield.

Quote:

Girls aren't wimps or wilting flowers; they don't shrink from challenges just because something isn't a strength. When girls are inspired, when they believe the payoff is worth the risk, discomfort, fear or effort, they can be unrelenting in the pursuit of a goal. Self-doubt doesn't stop a girl when she wants something bad enough.

She answers he own question right there. If they wanted to code bad enough, they would. They don't want to. Know why? Coding is boring and too behind the scenes. Not much attention whoring to be had for a coder. Teacher? Yes, a whole classroom of eyes trained up front. Nurse? Yes. They are in charge of the patient's health and wellness. Possibly their life! Ego boost. HR? Sure. Interview people, hire people, reprimand people. Create drama for an entire company! All good.

Sit at a desk and write code for no recognition? No thanks.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

The fucking femtards are non-stop encouraged to go into STEM fields and companies hire them preferentially. Men even enjoy to be around girls for a change - they would love for some pretty girl to code well next to them. The problem is that they are simply not interested.

Babies as young as 2 weeks old display different interests - male children react more when shown a shiny airplane and girls react more strongly towards faces.

Unless you genetically re-engineer the human species into some kind of unisex slugs or transmutate us into hyenas (female hyenas have more testosterone than their males), then men will remain the more intelligent, more creative, more risk-taking, more intellectually interested, more scientifically focused gender - period!

[Onto]

Velma has nice legs, I never really noticed before. Can't the girls just be happy they are being represented in Hollywood and call it a day?

[Lizard King]

Stopped reading at 'honestly don't believe' when the author was trying to make a (pseudo)factual point.

[tallandblonde]

Women as a whole are genuinely uninterested in STEM fields. It has nothing to do with society. All the boys in the class aren't sitting there and laughing at them when they sign up for an engineering class. I studied computer science, and trust me I would have loved to have some decent tail in my classes.

In fact, with the amount of preferential treatment that women get in the hiring process when it comes to STEM related fields, you'd think that more would study these things. Nope, they just become teachers and then complain about how the world doesn't pay women enough.

[Deuce Anna Half]

Quote:

Besides, girls most definitely embrace tech -- think of the evolution of selfies since the introduction of camera phones, of Instagram videos and photos with powerful storytelling in the unique framing and juxtaposition of images, and even the storyboarding on Pinterest -- all predominantly female audiences using tech as the background for their creative expression.

No, they don't embrace tech, they embrace ever-expanding opportunities to be the center of attention. Why take a selfie? Because you want to showcase yourself to others in they hopes they approve of it with 'likes' and comments. Why do an instagram video? To showcase yourself to others in the hopes they approve of it with 'likes' and comments...in video form. Why storyboard on Pinterest? To showcase yourself to others in the hopes they approve of it with 'likes' and comments...with food. It's all about how you can get attention and feed that narcissism.

Coding is not something you do to get "likes". Attention whoring and coding don't mix, nobody gives a shit about coding except other coders.

[Blobert]

Here's a piece by an actual female programmer on the subject. While she might be misunderstanding a lot of the underlying causes of the current situation, her description of it is pretty telling.
http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/girls-and-software

Quote:

[...]

I've never had a problem with old-school hackers. These guys treat me like one of them, rather than "the woman in the group", and many are old enough to remember when they worked on teams that were about one third women, and no one thought that strange. Of course, the key word here is "old" (sorry guys). Most of the programmers I like are closer to my father's age than mine.

The new breed of open-source programmer isn't like the old. They've changed the rules in ways that have put a spotlight on my sex for the first time in my 18 years in this community.

When we call a man a "technologist", we mean he's a programmer, system administrator, electrical engineer or something like that. The same used to be true when we called a woman a "technologist". However, according to the new breed, a female technologist might also be a graphic designer or someone who tweets for a living. Now, I'm glad that there are social media people out there—it means I can ignore that end of things—but putting them next to programmers makes being a "woman in tech" feel a lot like the Programmer Special Olympics.

It used to be that I was comfortable standing side by side with men, and no one cared how I looked. Now I find myself having to waste time talking about my gender rather than my technology...otherwise, there are lectures:

The "you didn't have a woman on the panel" lecture. I'm on the panel, but I'm told I don't count because of the way I dress: t-shirt, jeans, boots, no make-up.

The "you desexualize yourself to fit in; you're oppressed!" lecture. I'm told that deep in my female heart I must really love make-up and fashion. It's not that I'm a geek who doesn't much care how she looks.

The "you aren't representing women; you'd be a better role model for girls if you looked the part" lecture. Funny, the rest of the world seems very busy telling girls to look fashionable (just pick up a magazine or walk down the girls' toy aisle). I don't think someone as bad at fashion as I am should worry about it.

With one exception, I've heard these lectures only from women, and women who can't code at that. Sometimes I want to shout "you're not a programmer, what are you doing here?!"

I've also come to realize that I have an advantage that female newcomers don't: I was here before the sexism moral panic started. When a dozen guys decide to drink and hack in someone's hotel room, I get invited. They've known me for years, so I'm safe. New women, regardless of competence, don't get invited unless I'm along. That's a sexual harassment accusation waiting to happen, and no one will risk having 12 men alone with a single woman and booze. So the new ladies get left out.

I've never been segregated into a "Women in X" group, away from the real action in a project. I've got enough clout to say no when I'm told I should be loyal and spend my time working on women's groups instead of technology. I'm not young or impressionable enough to listen to the likes of the Ada Initiative who'd have me passive-aggressively redcarding anyone who bothers me or feeling like every male is a threat, or that every social conflict I have is because of my sex.

Here's a news flash for you: except for the polymaths in the group, hackers are generally kind of socially inept. If someone of any gender does something that violates my boundaries, I assume it was a misunderstanding. I calmly and specifically explain what bothered me and how to avoid crossing that boundary, making it a point to let the person know that I am not upset with them, I just want to make sure they're aware so it doesn't happen again. This is what adults do, and it works. Adults don't look for ways to take offense, silently hand out "creeper cards" or expect anyone to read their minds. I'm not a child, I'm an adult, and I act like one.

[...]

By underlining this "problem" so much, people are just scaring the few women who could become programmers, away.

[supadoopa_paratroopa]

WB 9/10

Doggy Style

[Soberane]

Women don't like to code because is boring, there is not ego boots, a women rather spend the day taking pictures and getting "likes" than learn C++, women use technology but they don't know and don't care what it takes to create it, how many women you know have rooted their phone? most women can't even know how to setup an account in many website, women like things that give them validation, spending the day coding on a computer is not something your typical Iphones addicted women would like to do over taking as many pictures of her Pumpkin Spice Latte to Instagram.

[placer]

As a professional programmer for years, I have seen the occasional woman who is a competent programmer. They are a lot like Susan Sons, the author of the above Linux Journal piece; they have always been older than me (and I'm old enough that I was working in the computer industry during the early dot-com boom), and they aren't really feminine. They don't worry about makeup and they more often than not have an attitude. They are less likely to want children or embrace motherhood.

I have never had any attraction for any female programmer.

Edit Thinking about it some more, there was one young attractive competent programmer I knew during the dot-com boom, but she wasn't American; she was an Indian (as in, from the country India).

[StrikeBack]

(11-28-2014 05:57 PM)Onto Wrote:  

Can't the girls just be happy they are being represented in Hollywood and call it a day?

Whenever I see a hacker / coder in a Hollywood movie or TV show these days, it's always a white girl or a black guy (mostly the former).

I have never or very rarely seen an Asian or Indian guy on the screen in those roles, and they're probably 60-70% of those in all the major IT conferences I go to, the rest being Jewish and other white guys.

And yet white broads are still bitching...

[Captain Gh]

Quote:

Besides, girls most definitely embrace tech -- think of the evolution of selfies since the introduction of camera phones,

Wow... this bitch has no idea why this point is actually going against the thesis of her article and illustrating the opposite!!

[Soberane]

(11-28-2014 11:43 PM)StrikeBack Wrote:  

(11-28-2014 05:57 PM)Onto Wrote:  

Can't the girls just be happy they are being represented in Hollywood and call it a day?

Whenever I see a hacker / coder in a Hollywood movie or TV show these days, it's always a white girl or a black guy (mostly the former).

I have never or very rarely seen an Asian or Indian guy on the screen in those roles, and they're probably 60-70% of those in all the major IT conferences I go to, the rest being Jewish and other white guys.

And yet white broads are still bitching...

Remember. Hug Jackman was a hacker in SwordFish


How many hackers that good looking have you met?

[Collide]

There is certainly a way to get more women into STEM fields (including computer science), but progressives may not like the answer. The typical SJW theory is that a cultural elimination of gender roles will naturally make women gravitate towards male-oriented career fields. By that logic we should expect that the most gender egalitarian countries will hold the largest portion of female science graduates. Lets take a look at that;



Iran, Oman, Saudi Arabia, UAE, Romania, and so fourth..... Not only are these countries not gender egalitarian countries, most occupy the complete opposite end of the spectrum. What a majority of these countries do have in common however, is that they are largely poor or unstable societies. Women living under such conditions do not have the luxury of choosing careers based on interest, rather their choice is crucially centered around financial security. In other words the elimination of women's freedom will create more STEM workers.

If the American economy really collapses, if the welfare safety net is cut loose, maybe then we will see more women programming; whether they like it or not.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

(11-29-2014 01:43 AM)Collide Wrote:  

Iran, Oman, Saudi Arabia, UAE, Romania, and so fourth..... Not only are these countries not gender egalitarian countries, most occupy the complete opposite end of the spectrum. What a majority of these countries do have in common however, is that they are largely poor or unstable societies. Women living under such conditions do not have the luxury of choosing careers based on interest, rather their choice is crucially centered around financial security. In other words the elimination of women's freedom will create more STEM workers.

If the American economy really collapses, if the welfare safety net is cut loose, maybe then we will see more women programming; whether they like it or not.

Nah - that statistic likely includes biology and all the teaching degrees - maybe even economic "science" as well as some sociology "sciences". That statistic simply cannot be true.

No way in fucking hell do Romanian girls study math and engineering at rates beyond men. I've seen the statistics world-wide and in Western countries women comprise usually 20% if you discount biology. If the country is really dirt-poor, then the number goes up to 30-35% as in some African countries - not Saudi Arabia or Romania though. The highest numbers reached I ever heard of was during the Communist times, when I talked to old Russian scientists - they had technical studies where almost 40-45% of the students were women. That was around the time, when there were food shortages and STEM degrees were more lucrative. That number dropped instantly as soon as communism collapsed. You won't find 55% of women among "science" graduates in Italy and in no country in the former communist ones.

[Collide]

I'm trying to find gender gap specifically in computer science by country but I'm not coming up with much. The only statistics I can find are very broad and just include "STEM" or "science".

[Simeon_Strangelight]

(11-29-2014 03:53 AM)Collide Wrote:  

I'm trying to find gender gap specifically in computer science by country but I'm not coming up with much. The only statistics I can find are very broad and just include "STEM" or "science".

Yeah - it's hard to find for a good reason. The Norwegian documentary I linked had some compiled - they talk about it.

The official "science" ones are just adding there lots of different fields - I would not even be surprised if they put gender studies into the "science" category and only left out marketing, liberal arts, languages etc.

And even if you have 50/50 - guess how the top of the field looks like?

US youth chemistry olympiad winning team:



I've been at some regional science olympiads when young and it was a total sausage fest. Been also at some language olympiads - even there the winners were all boys. I guess it does not help women either that the IQ distribution is unequal and by far more morons as well as geniuses are male.

Women in science? Apart from some notable exceptions women in science should focus on giving birth to 2 boys and raise them with an interest in the field. That will push science forward.

[SlickyBoy]

(11-29-2014 02:05 AM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  

(11-29-2014 01:43 AM)Collide Wrote:  

Iran, Oman, Saudi Arabia, UAE, Romania, and so fourth..... Not only are these countries not gender egalitarian countries, most occupy the complete opposite end of the spectrum. What a majority of these countries do have in common however, is that they are largely poor or unstable societies. Women living under such conditions do not have the luxury of choosing careers based on interest, rather their choice is crucially centered around financial security. In other words the elimination of women's freedom will create more STEM workers.

If the American economy really collapses, if the welfare safety net is cut loose, maybe then we will see more women programming; whether they like it or not.

Nah - that statistic likely includes biology and all the teaching degrees - maybe even economic "science" as well as some sociology "sciences". That statistic simply cannot be true.

No way in fucking hell do Romanian girls study math and engineering at rates beyond men. I've seen the statistics world-wide and in Western countries women comprise usually 20% if you discount biology. If the country is really dirt-poor, then the number goes up to 30-35% as in some African countries - not Saudi Arabia or Romania though. The highest numbers reached I ever heard of was during the Communist times, when I talked to old Russian scientists - they had technical studies where almost 40-45% of the students were women. That was around the time, when there were food shortages and STEM degrees were more lucrative. That number dropped instantly as soon as communism collapsed. You won't find 55% of women among "science" graduates in Italy and in no country in the former communist ones.

That's an excellent point and one most people either don't realize or forget completely - not all STEM backgrounds and job demands are equal. There are far more patents and patent related work in the EE and CS areas than there are in the bio fields. Those with bio backgrounds typically need masters degrees or above to get the best opportunities. A basic BS in bio doesn't really cut it.

[CRR]

I say this as someone with limited knowledge of computer programming and am not a gamer, but to me it's just another example of feminism trying to push their way to the front of the line and demanding special treatment.

Why not create their own companies? Instead, they are trying to encroach in male-created spaces and change the rules to befit them.

Bottom line is computer programmers, at least the ones I've seen at my company (and elsewhere), are highly skilled and work hard. When a project comes up, those guys work virtually around the clock. It's not accommodating to the "I have to leave at 5 o'clock to pick up my kid" or "I need to take the day off because of my feelings" lifestyle.

As others have stated, certain professions are more geared towards women. Teaching, nursing, HR, all good professions.

Truthfully, I think they see a pool of eligible men who make good money and they want in. They see coding as something they can do because all they see is the end result (i.e. a game, a well-designed website, a fixed computer, etc.). I also think there is the attitude "Oh coding, that's just data entry right?". Except, again, it's a specialized field requiring skill, dedication, and intelligence.

In gamer terms, it's like comparing something like Assassins Creed (which looks amazing to me) to whatever the fuck Depression Quest is.

A wealthy female entrepreneur (i.e. Meg Whitman) could create a company, women could create a successful game, and go from there. It doesn't have to be a wealthy entrepreneur. I just googled "Ubisoft", it was founded by five brothers in 1986.

Instead, they want to cry 'discrimination' so they can stand on the shoulders of men.

[Jevioso]

They simply choose not to.

Nobody controls what you choose to do with your computers.