[TheFinalEpic]

On this forum and in the manosphere in general, there's a lot of complaining about where society in the west is headed, but not much in the way of how to fix whats been done by the feminist camp. I occasionally see an article that claims that society is coming around and a few optimists in the community that think all is not lost.

I am an optomist, but with all this ridiculous stuff in the UK how if a "man verbally abuses his wife or anything along those lines he could face jail time", and the constant divorce rape that keeps popping up, it becomes hard to ignore that we are still declining. Couple that with the fact that artificial intelligence is growing at an exponential rate and that human interaction in the very near future could become null and void, I see a ton of issues that are still on the horizon.

I know that a lot of us have said "leave western society, go live in ex soviet countries and Asia", but I want to know how we could make changes that benefit all men around the world, and maybe that is the calling of the manosphere, to restore some of what has been lost.

I don't want inequality in the genders (I'm all for equal opportunity, equal pay for the same job), and I have successfully explained to some girl friends of mine that there are biological differences in men and women, that there is a reason that men pursue success and women should pursue families, and that feminism is essentially a destroyer of both men and women (in the capacity that it has grown into in recent years). Women should not want to be men, because the world needs both genders. Theres reasons that men are the physically strong sex, and women are the emotionally driven gender. Does it involve education in a real sense and not some leftist bullshit?

My question to you, gentlemen, is what can we do in western society that would start to bring gender roles back (because there is empirical evidence that they benefit both men and women), and restore the west to what it truly could be? I know a lot of us think that we're too far gone and its a lost cause, but what if we can make the changes? What if we can help to fix the problems that have risen, not just sit idle as the world we know crumples.

[The Beast1]

Fire.

The only way anything will change is by the old system becoming impossible to service. Sadly there are too many people who fear change, becoming productive, and are too slovenly to understand the power of accomplishing something (whether it's a business, widget, body, a child, or family). People forget that for humans to be healthy both physically and mentally requires constant growth and change. The second anyone loses that is when depression, decadence, and hedonism takes hold.

The whole concept of a death and rebirth is a very powerful concept for me. It's scary as hell. But the only way people change is through hardship. Very rarely will someone change on their own will power.

[TigerMandingo]

Your heart's in the right place, but at this point it would be like trying chemotherapy on a stage 4 cancer patient. It's over.

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

Nothing. Only the laws of nature can fix this mess. By "laws of nature", I mean stuff like "feminists eventually committing demographic suicide and being replaced by more fertile & productive traditional-minded people" in the best case, or in the worst case "total societal collapse from having reached a critical mass of single mother-raised thugs and/or herbivores" or "long-lasting war, plague and famine". We can only hope that the former occurs, but overall I don't think we can have much of an influence on it.

Focus on protecting your small pocket of loved ones, so that they and your descendants are more ready to weather the storm ahead and emerge in strong positions after the upheaval.

Overall, I think the ideal point of view regarding today's Western society is best illustrated by this picture:

[Parlay44]

A society is on the incline when women pursuer marriage and family and help their man to achieve greatness. A society is on the decline when women reject their basic maternal instincts and pursue power. We are definitely on the decline. Just sit back and watch it burn. Something new and better will rise out of the ashes.

[Old Fritz]

I don't want to sound pessimistic here; but it must be stated that there is no "fixing" modern day society. At least, not without a collapse first. Today's society is too far drenched in decadence, hedonism, distractions, etc. The only way things will turn around is if something major happens. Any self aware man knows what that means.

• World War 3
• Monetary system collapse (This is already happening now)
• When the U.S. decides to start overtly exercising their Orwellian infrastructure (The President can turn the U.S. into a Soviet Union esque police state right now if he wanted to)
• Major cyber attack or emp attack
• Another U.S. Civil war
  

As you can see; none of this is good. But on the flip side, this is where feminism, progressives, social justice warriors, etc will start to get a taste of their own medicine. This is the quick way of changing things.

The longer way for things to change is by social engineering and a slow removal of certain laws, people, etc that are responsible for the stuff that goes on today. But this takes a minimum of somewhere between 10-20 yrs. As the US continues to decline, we will see it implode even more.

I still believe we will see Neo feminist in about 10-15 years (i will still be young at that point) But some things won't ever change. I don't see us going back to the nuclear family life. I see marriage becoming completely obsolete at some point. I say good riddance. Marriage was always a bad deal for men in my opinion.

[TheFinalEpic]

So you guys think that we can do absolutely nothing to right this ship and its time to abandon? Guess it's time to make the money and disappear.

[monster]

This question assumes that society was once "fixed" but it has since broken.

Society has never been "fixed," it has always been a shit show.

The best you can do is to learn to live and do the best you can in the era in which you live. if that includes NOT speaking your mind and publicly consenting with the public opinion while privately expressing a different side...then so be it: that's what Great thinkers have done forever from Plato to Galileo to Julius Ceasar.

[LouEvilSlugger]

I'm not sure we can fix western civilization but bringing back the jobs and troops, opting out of the UN/NATO/EU/Euro scam and judging politicians for high treason would be a good start.

[El Chinito loco]

It's beating a dead horse at this point but let's just assume in the next 20-30 years U.S. society can manage to right the ship with feminism you will still have..

Plutocrats who have basically taken over the political system and have astroturfed every small and large political org that has any legitimacy. These same shitheads enable bankers to rob and loot the financial system. They are also backed by billionaire industrialists and bankers. A hand in every pocket.

Millions of illegal immigrants streaming through and every politician on both sides pandering hard because it means future votes. It's a slap in the face of people who did immigrate legally and worked hard to get where they are as people who were born and raised in the U.S.

When these millions of mexican and central american illegals start occupying all the underclass rungs in society get ready for even greater disenfranchisement and discontent coming from african-americans and poorer whites. Ferguson? You ain't seen nothing yet. America didn't learn shit from the L.A. riots.

A weak willed, fat, and slovenly population that celebrates mediocrity and degeneracy. People will bury their hands in the sand with dancing with the stars and football rather than face reality. Right now it's a race to see if the middle class erosion will cause a spark before the will off the population completely crumbles.

Governent intrusion on all levels of life. Spying, jailing, and assassination of citizens, erosion of rights, etc.. it's all been approved. It will get worse since both political parties gleefully sign off on this shit.

Stick a fork in it, it's done.

Best thing you can do at this point is make sure you have your income on lockdown, get a passport, and plan for the future.

[TheFinalEpic]

(11-27-2014 07:17 PM)monster Wrote:  

This question assumes that society was once "fixed" but it has since broken.

Society has never been "fixed," it has always been a shit show.

The best you can do is to learn to live and do the best you can in the era in which you live. if that includes NOT speaking your mind and publicly consenting with the public opinion while privately expressing a different side...then so be it: that's what Great thinkers have done forever from Plato to Galileo to Julius Ceasar.

Excellent suggestion, seeing as when I voice the truths of this world to anyone that is brainwashed I'm the one who gets shit on. It's tough, but necessary.

[Spectrumwalker]

The most important thing, that should take precedence above all, is monetary reform. We have to nationalize our currency or return to gold backed currency. Phase out the Federal Reserve System and take back our money supply. When Nixon finalized the destruction of the dollar by making it completely fiat, that is what ultimately destroyed gender roles. Inflation took off, and families now needed two incomes to support a family. Prior to that, your average carpenter or plumber could have supported a wife and kids on his own income.

What we have now only fuels government growth. We need to shrink the government. Fiat currency is just too tempting for men and women with power and will only perpetuate the constant expansion of government. This of course allows the feminists, social justice warriors, and political authoritarians to do what they do. If we tie our money to gold once again, the only way the government can increase their funding is through taxation or to increase the amount of the gold supply. Taxation of course is political suicide. Now this isn't the case.

It would be a long, gradual process I imagine considering the complexities of our global economy. But if we want our freedom, and our families, and for the men and women to each have their respective roles in society, we need monetary reform first and foremost. Bring back real and authentic value to the US Dollar.

Slay the beast that feeds those who are destroying our civilization.

[Sombro]

Aside from economics, the majority of the rot is cultural.

British historian Arnold Toynbee said (paraphrasing): In ascending cultures, the lower classes imitate behavior of the upper classes; in descending cultures, the upper classes imitate behavior of the lower.

It reminds me of pictures from the Depression of guys waiting in lines for jobs or the soup kitchen, yet they're dressed in ties, jackets and hats.

Contrast with today's upper class SWPL's and boomers aping habits and trends of lower classes (tats, piercings, shitty clothes, midlife crises that push them to invent some "badass" persona, etc.)

Now imagine how they've raised their children -- "My kid is my best friend!"

The societal rot has been in place for decades now and the momentum is just moving along.

[VolandoVengoVolandoVoy]

1. It's extremely delusional to think that any individual or group of individuals has the capacity to significantly alter the course of modern day society. "Fixing" or "saving" the world is an idea that has a powerful hold on people in college or their early 20s. Most, unless their head is permanently stuck up their ass, quickly abandon such silliness once they join the real world and get some life experience.

2. Use your limited time and energy to make your own life better, and if you must, to help others do the same. You may not be able to change larger societal trends, but you can certainly become better able to adapt to or avoid them, while pursuing the lifestyle and interests you have.

3. There is no paradise. Can life be better in certain aspects for some men if they go to Asia or Eastern Europe, etc? Yes. But it's not all peaches and cream. A lot of the time it's ignorance being bliss. If you develop the same level of language fluency and cultural knowledge in your adopted country as your native country, you will become aware that this newfound "perfect" adopted country is full of many fucked up things and beliefs and problems.

[iknowexactly]

Has there ever been an era in human history when people weren't saying "Everything's a mess, it's hopeless."

It's hopeless for us all individually, we disappear, but you think 17 year olds in 40 years are going to agree with that?

No, they'll just think I'm a grouchy old guy talking about the "good old days."

And the word for people who tend to envision favorable outcomes is spelled "optimists."

[The Reactionary Tree]

To fix modern society: Fight Club

[infowarrior1]

(11-27-2014 08:07 PM)Spectrumwalker Wrote:  

The most important thing, that should take precedence above all, is monetary reform. We have to nationalize our currency or return to gold backed currency. Phase out the Federal Reserve System and take back our money supply. When Nixon finalized the destruction of the dollar by making it completely fiat, that is what ultimately destroyed gender roles. Inflation took off, and families now needed two incomes to support a family. Prior to that, your average carpenter or plumber could have supported a wife and kids on his own income.

What we have now only fuels government growth. We need to shrink the government. Fiat currency is just too tempting for men and women with power and will only perpetuate the constant expansion of government. This of course allows the feminists, social justice warriors, and political authoritarians to do what they do. If we tie our money to gold once again, the only way the government can increase their funding is through taxation or to increase the amount of the gold supply. Taxation of course is political suicide. Now this isn't the case.

It would be a long, gradual process I imagine considering the complexities of our global economy. But if we want our freedom, and our families, and for the men and women to each have their respective roles in society, we need monetary reform first and foremost. Bring back real and authentic value to the US Dollar.

Slay the beast that feeds those who are destroying our civilization.

Government is a organism you cannot elect people to shrink the government since they make up the government and they will always perpetuate the system. The only way to shrink the government is by starving it of tax dollars. And evading its attempts to take one's wealth by force.

[Feisbook Control]

There have been many other times in history when the world (or at least a small part of it) has looked as though it has been going to hell. Yet here we all are because our ancestors didn't just throw their hands in the air.

Insulate yourself from the degenerate culture and state influence at large. Build communities of like minded people. Find a good woman. Have children. Raise them well. Hopefully, they will do the same. One day, from the ashes a phoenix will rise.

[Spectrumwalker]

(11-28-2014 09:05 AM)infowarrior1 Wrote:  

(11-27-2014 08:07 PM)Spectrumwalker Wrote:  

The most important thing, that should take precedence above all, is monetary reform. We have to nationalize our currency or return to gold backed currency. Phase out the Federal Reserve System and take back our money supply. When Nixon finalized the destruction of the dollar by making it completely fiat, that is what ultimately destroyed gender roles. Inflation took off, and families now needed two incomes to support a family. Prior to that, your average carpenter or plumber could have supported a wife and kids on his own income.

What we have now only fuels government growth. We need to shrink the government. Fiat currency is just too tempting for men and women with power and will only perpetuate the constant expansion of government. This of course allows the feminists, social justice warriors, and political authoritarians to do what they do. If we tie our money to gold once again, the only way the government can increase their funding is through taxation or to increase the amount of the gold supply. Taxation of course is political suicide. Now this isn't the case.

It would be a long, gradual process I imagine considering the complexities of our global economy. But if we want our freedom, and our families, and for the men and women to each have their respective roles in society, we need monetary reform first and foremost. Bring back real and authentic value to the US Dollar.

Slay the beast that feeds those who are destroying our civilization.

Government is a organism you cannot elect people to shrink the government since they make up the government and they will always perpetuate the system. The only way to shrink the government is by starving it of tax dollars. And evading its attempts to take one's wealth by force.

Yes precisely. Which is what I'm currently doing. Along with starving it of tax dollars having a gold backed currency is the best way to ensure the government doesn't grow to epic proportions.

[TheFinalEpic]

It's almost as if its necessary to eject from the west and create a colony of your very own. Don't get me wrong, the west is great place to make your money, but living here has been making me feel dejected as of recently. Excellent post Feisbook, I suppose all generations have experienced this feeling. Volando, I am 21, so you are probably correct that it'll just take time.

[Jackreacher]

Trying to fix modern day society is a lot like trying to restore a sculpture of a beautiful woman whose arms have been broken off. You could use the existing piece and sculpt it down heavily to recover the original look of the sculpture but it will be a much smaller version of its former self and the sculptor will know the differences at a glance anyway. It will never be what it once was. Feminism(and other groups) has broken off the arms and they are quite(although deep down never) satisfied with the result, to them it is now a truly beautiful work of art.

So to answer your question:

"My question to you, gentlemen, is what can we do in western society that would start to bring gender roles back (because there is empirical evidence that they benefit both men and women), and restore the west to what it truly could be?"

Sincerely I would tell you that leaving is the best thing we can do. Nothing brings a woman back into the role she is suited for faster then the realization that she can't or outright refuses to lead her own life successfully, that at best she can be supportive to her man, and at worst that she be in a position of significance that involves making critical decisions or dealing with caring for her own survival(all by herself). The biggest problem we have in the west is that legions of men make it so easy for women to take them for granted. Men could literally have (most) women worship them every day for merely providing them with food and shelter, 99% of women (in the west) don't or can't even build their own homes or know how to grow their own food. You see when you leave a society willingly and no longer providing it with anything of value you are effectively saying "I won't support this" and then you carry on with your life. If enough men do this, this hits the women and then concessions are made, changes may occur, or not. In any case you want to opt to have a better life elsewhere.

There was a Swedish survivor type reality show someone mentioned on the forum here some time ago about how men and women were put in two separate teams on an island and we get to see how they both fare on their own. The men eventually got along and made pretty good with what they had and things were comfortable, everyone did something useful and things got done. The women instead, lounged around, acted like they were on vacation and it got so bad that the TV crew became worried about whether female team could make it on their own, so instead they put an equal amount of men and women on each team. The women who went to what was recently the all male camp site were grateful for what the men had setup there and reaped the benefits of it, the men who were taken to the recently all female camp were pissed because they basically had to start from scratch and this time with half of their team now being lazy women.

You see the thing is here in the west half of the population(women) is against you because 1) they are sexually inclined to resist you unless you "hit all the magic buttons" (there aren't that many buttons really) and even if you do all the things that get them sexually attracted to you, you can still be hated and punished for doing that(with very real consequences). Reason 2) is they truly do not need men, so many men in the west (along with the government) bend over backwards providing everything under the sun for them at such a ridiculous level that they can pretty much do whatever they want so long as they are pretty, slim and young. All it takes for a woman to cast off traditional gender roles is to find a man who is willing to take her whether she cooks and cleans for him or not, she can afford to wait as long as she wants (with the caveat that she eventually chooses before hitting the wall however)as she has a job that can cover her needs until she finds such a man.

And not to forget, the other half of the population here is the west mainly consists of idiots; many of which allowed for this situation to happen in the first place, who also compete with you to garner the attention of these marvelously ungrateful female creatures found here in the west.

Time is better spent living in a society that isn't quite so dysfunctional and enjoying life. Let the world you know crumble, it was just a belief anyway, just a set of ideals, hopes and expectations. The actual world has many places to live in that are much friendlier to a man.

[Grange]

It's perfectly reasonable to be pessimistic about the short term but it's unreasonable to be pessimistic about the long term. In a generation or two young people will be able to see how miserable all the older folks are, and it won't be possible to spin it such that they don't act differently. A bunch of bitter old ladies with miles of dick in their histories can't be swept under the rug. A bunch of incels who allowed themselves to be cowered into never making moves will provide a very clear example of what not to do. The mountains of research showing the differences between men and women that still won't have disappeared will be too much to ignore. Sure, it'll get worse in the next five, ten years, but at some point the pendulum will come back the other way.

And that's beside the collapse of the welfare state, monetary problems, etc., which are also serious issues waiting for the other shoe to drop.

[RoastBeefCurtains4Me]

I think it might be possible to take a page from feminism, and raise the consciousness of a large enough group of men. Consciousness raising was a key strategy of feminism in the 60's and 70's. Right now, the percentage of men who are red pill is very small. We've all tried to get our buddies to understand the red pill, and most reject it.
However, there could potentially be a critical mass of red pill guys, where a large minority or even a majority of men openly say they'll be glad to bang sluts, but will only marry a low N girl, who makes a conscious effort to be sweet, nurturing, and feminine, and who works to stay as attractive as she can. Women who refuse to be marriage material will turn into cat women, without any beta white knights offering to marry her slutty self. The key is for it to become well known that large numbers of men feel this way. It won't matter if women try to shame them. Men hold the power. They should only marry quality women, and if all the women are sluts, then they can all go unmarried.
If enough men take the red pill, we can reach critical mass

[Paracelsus]

(11-27-2014 07:02 PM)TheFinalEpic Wrote:  

So you guys think that we can do absolutely nothing to right this ship and its time to abandon? Guess it's time to make the money and disappear.

Put it this way: in his excellent book The Art of Learning, Josh Waitzkin quotes an old proverb: "When faced with crossing a field of nettles, you have a choice: cut down the entire field, or make yourself a pair of sandals."

My take on the Red Pill is that it's passive resistance - one of the more powerful forms of resistance to oppression. Ultimately, women only get away with feminist bullshit because there are men around to enable them - i.e. white knights. No enablers, no feminism. Simple as that. For all their shaming, women cannot force men to pursue them, no matter how hard they push fat acceptance, no matter how many gender studies courses they attend. The sexual market is the free market: regulation can alter its course slightly, but the very act of altering the course makes the free market flow around that regulation to the places where it can flow unhindered. And women, like it or not, want sex. Frequently. It is a basic biological need that when twisted or not fulfilled fucks their heads up completely, and it derives from their natural narcissism. The most grievous wound you can inflict on a narcissist is to pay no attention to them.

Bear in mind women have little actual power outside their male enablers in the court and HR systems. Ultimately their only capability in our immature Western world is to affect your social acceptance to a greater or lesser degree. If you are not dependent on social acceptance or indeed on public opinion, that weapon is of no use. Getting hit with a Facebook SJW Swarm is a brutal ride for the poor bastard who has to endure it, no doubt, but shaming is about the only tool women have to try and reduce a man's horizons. None have sufficient balls to carry out the death threats they offer to men who stand up to them. Their threats basically come down to what John Wayne's character said in True Grit: I call that bold talk for a one-eyed, fat man.

If your personality is strong enough to shrug off the opinions of opinionated women on the Internet, shaming cannot hurt you. If your affairs are oriented such that you do not have to rely on the money of opinionated women or their male enablers on the Internet to stay alive, shaming cannot hurt you. Look at this very forum: women have started change.org petitions to shut this site down, and it's achieved them precisely fucking dick.

[Badamson]

(11-27-2014 12:13 PM)TheFinalEpic Wrote:  

On this forum and in the manosphere in general, there's a lot of complaining about where society in the west is headed, but not much in the way of how to fix whats been done by the feminist camp. I occasionally see an article that claims that society is coming around and a few optimists in the community that think all is not lost.

I am an optomist, but with all this ridiculous stuff in the UK how if a "man verbally abuses his wife or anything along those lines he could face jail time", and the constant divorce rape that keeps popping up, it becomes hard to ignore that we are still declining. Couple that with the fact that artificial intelligence is growing at an exponential rate and that human interaction in the very near future could become null and void, I see a ton of issues that are still on the horizon.

I know that a lot of us have said "leave western society, go live in ex soviet countries and Asia", but I want to know how we could make changes that benefit all men around the world, and maybe that is the calling of the manosphere, to restore some of what has been lost.

I don't want inequality in the genders (I'm all for equal opportunity, equal pay for the same job), and I have successfully explained to some girl friends of mine that there are biological differences in men and women, that there is a reason that men pursue success and women should pursue families, and that feminism is essentially a destroyer of both men and women (in the capacity that it has grown into in recent years). Women should not want to be men, because the world needs both genders. Theres reasons that men are the physically strong sex, and women are the emotionally driven gender. Does it involve education in a real sense and not some leftist bullshit?

My question to you, gentlemen, is what can we do in western society that would start to bring gender roles back (because there is empirical evidence that they benefit both men and women), and restore the west to what it truly could be? I know a lot of us think that we're too far gone and its a lost cause, but what if we can make the changes? What if we can help to fix the problems that have risen, not just sit idle as the world we know crumples.

The only thing I can see as a fix for society is to divide up countries into microstates, where people can choose the type of society they want to live in, instead of forcing all kinds of different people and ideologies to exist under one roof.

Also there's an argument to be made for space colonization for self determination. It wasn't too long ago when mormons relocated and set up their own civilization in Utah after they had been kicked out everywhere else.

The world is smaller now though, so a large group of people who want to live a certain way may have to look beyond earth to get far enough away to do it. They always say "men are from mars." Well, it's time to reclaim the homeland.