[Drazen]

Figured she wouldn't stick to her deadline. She'll probably do it once she starts getting sick. Having a strict deadline for her to kill herself was kind of a dumb symbolic move in the first place. The romanticism of killing herself the day after her Husband's birthday.

http://www.kgw.com/story/news/local/2014.../18167099/

Quote:

A terminally ill woman who moved to Oregon to take advantage of the state's doctor-assisted suicide law announced Thursday she has postponed her planned Saturday death.

"I still feel good enough and I still have enough joy and I still laugh and smile with my family and friends enough that it doesn't seem like the right time right now," she said in a video on her website The Brittany Maynard fund." "But it will come, because I feel myself getting sicker. It's happening each week."

Diagnosed with a malignant brain tumor, Maynard has moved with her family to Oregon so she can legally kill herself with lethal medication prescribed under the Oregon Death With Dignity Act.

[Drazen]

I don't care if she kills herself or doesn't, however, the way she went along it was kind of to get a lot of attention, sympathy and to be a symbol for a cause. Her not sticking to her original plan weakens her platform. Wonder how much money her foundation has received, she should probably just use that to go to europe or some island.

[Tuthmosis]

Attention-whoring even in death.

[frogmallet]

major loss for humanity. This attention whore should have killed herself.

[Remington]

Maybe she read Dante's Inferno and realized that suicide meant turning into a tree.

I don't care how much pain you are in...every day on earth is a gift. Take advantage of life instead of mindlessly throwing it away and causing pain for others.

[Truth Teller]

I personally see this as being an awful, awful thing to do. This woman has an inoperable brain tumor. That's a horrible thing to have. You shouldn't be parading around the fucking Internet about how good you feel and how you've decided to kill yourself as some sort of "martyr."

[Remington]

(10-30-2014 08:59 PM)Truth Teller Wrote:  

I personally see this as being an awful, awful thing to do. This woman has an inoperable brain tumor. That's a horrible thing to have. You shouldn't be parading around the fucking Internet about how good you feel and how you've decided to kill yourself as some sort of "martyr."

Agreed. If I'm going to die, I don't want to be a pussy and say "hey, this state is allowing me to kill myself...so let's do it" I would live my life to the fullest with the time I have left and die like a champion.

[The_CEO]

Setting this woman aside, there's something to be said for going out on your own terms.

For anyone who likes Stoic philosophy, they were proponents of going out when your number is up, in a dignified way.

Vs. suffering severe mental and physical decline or worse.. such as crapping yourself in a hospice, juiced with morphine for your last days.

[Spectrumwalker]

I wouldn't wish this condition on my own worst enemies. Though setting a specific date for your own death I feel would only give you that much more anxiety. You wake up every morning knowing your only one day closer to leaving this planet at a specific time and date. That's not natural. I say if you want to take yourself out it has to be a spontaneous decision. A decision made when you are truly sick and suffering. When you can no longer support yourself and become a burden on your friends and family. If you're healthy, and can laugh, walk, and talk, enjoy every fricken last day you possibly can.

[Drazen]

(10-30-2014 10:06 PM)Spectrumwalker Wrote:  

I wouldn't wish this condition on my own worst enemies. Though setting a specific date for your own death I feel would only give you that much more anxiety. You wake up every morning knowing your only one day closer to leaving this planet at a specific time and date. That's not natural. I say if you want to take yourself out it has to be a spontaneous decision. A decision made when you are truly sick and suffering. When you can no longer support yourself and become a burden on your friends and family. If you're healthy, and can laugh, walk, and talk, enjoy every fricken last day you possibly can.

I agree. there is no "death with dignity". To take your own life, you have to be in extreme mental or physical pain and suffering. So much so that it makes it not worth it to live.

[Seamus]

http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/02/health/ore...y-maynard/

She went through with it after all.

I disagree with the idea that she was attention whoring here. The ability to die on your own terms, in a relatively pain-free manner and surrounded by loved ones, is absolutely something worth fighting for and drawing attention to. One of my best friends died after a long battle with brain cancer, and trust me those last weeks aren't something I'd wish on anyone (or their families). She went out on her own terms, advancing a worthy cause. RIP

[Felix88]

Men choose to die with dignity almost everyday without broadcasting it and noone gives a shit. But when a woman does it, it have to make the news first.

[2Wycked]

(11-02-2014 10:52 PM)Seamus Wrote:  

http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/02/health/ore...y-maynard/

She went through with it after all.

I disagree with the idea that she was attention whoring here. The ability to die on your own terms, in a relatively pain-free manner and surrounded by loved ones, is absolutely something worth fighting for and drawing attention to. One of my best friends died after a long battle with brain cancer, and trust me those last weeks aren't something I'd wish on anyone (or their families). She went out on her own terms, advancing a worthy cause. RIP

Exactly, it was all about her. Must be nice to the be the loved one and not be the ones doing the loving who have to live on in the wake of your suicide. Quite the privilege, as some might opine.

I discussed about my opposition to euthanasia here.

She committed suicide, and was cheered on for her "bravery."

Now, her family and friends gets to carry around the twin albatrosses around their neck, known as "what could I have done to prevent her death," and "what did I do that caused her to think suicide was the appropriate response to being diagnosed with a terminal cancer." Do the math here, this isn't some 70 year-old whose family is all dead and they are dreading staring a concrete wall for the short future while they waste away in a nursing home. This is a young woman surrounded by family and friends.

If I was to venture a guess why she committed suicide in such a public manner was that she always felt cocksure and in command in her life. Cancer crept up on her and reminded her that the world doesn't revolve around her. So, in order to keep the movie reel of her life focused purely on her and not a disease she has little power over, she committed suicide. And, let the whole world know what she is doing, how empowered she is, blah blah blah.

That last part is really disturbing. She has brought tons of attention on a grieving family - and that attention isn't going away anytime soon. I wonder how much time the family will get to privately grieve in the lead-up to the funeral? Does anybody give a damn about the family?

I will note that I do respect the fact she did it herself, and not go completely pussy and force a doctor to end her life.

[Sherman]

America has become a toxic culture of death. The "progressives" are pushing the right to die, but it will evolve into the expectation to die for those deemed not worthy to live. You will find that under Obamacare after you reach a certain age, you won't get treatment for your illness, but rather palliative care to keep you comfortable while you sink into death.

[dholland662]

2wycked is right. It may not be impossible to use your suffering as a platform for attention to the ISSUE and the other people who also suffer, but from what I have gathered this woman made it all about herself.

And also she was getting the attention for dying, not for anything she did but for something she could not control. Which is fairly textbook attention whoring.

Attention whoring can be a slippery concept, I will grant, since there doesnt seem to be any consensus (from my own experience, could have simply not looked well enough) on what it is beyond "I know it when I see it."

[Tuthmosis]

(11-02-2014 10:52 PM)Seamus Wrote:  

She went through with it after all.

I disagree with the idea that she was attention whoring here.

Sad for her loved ones, but the verdict stands:

Attention-whoring as charged.

[Ziltoid]

I have medical power of attorney for one of my parents, and chances are decent the day will come within the next 10-20 years that I'll have to use it.
I love them a lot, and it is precisely for that reason I'd not hesitate to help them in any way I can to pull the plug.

What kind of sadistic weirdos want their loved one's to endure debilitating physical/mental decline before they inevitably die anyway? I don't see the nobility in this.
The purpose of life is not to eke out every possible second of consciousness at any cost.

I won't comment on this woman's motives or how the publicity may have affected her family, but given that it's still illegal in nearly all of the US, the worst you could say about her publicizing this is that she serendipitously did some good. It's fucking idiotic that one should have to travel across country while terminally ill just to die a decent death.

I like Doug Stanhope's idea; make anyone who votes against it work a couple graveyard shifts at a nursing home.

[Seamus]

(11-02-2014 11:28 PM)2Wycked Wrote:  

Cancer crept up on her and reminded her that the world doesn't revolve around her. So, in order to keep the movie reel of her life focused purely on her and not a disease she has little power over, she committed suicide. And, let the whole world know what she is doing, how empowered she is, blah blah blah.

There's a whole lot of armchair psychology and cynicism in some of these responses. I don't think gender or male/female relations figures into this story at all. A lot of men have made the exact same decision, and been just as public about it in the hopes of expanding access to these drugs. Was Ramon Sampedro an attention whore?

And for those of you guys who keep repeating that it was "all about her," what does that even mean? From the few articles I've read, she was actively campaigning with Death with Dignity groups and advocating for everyone to have access to the same drugs she used. The right to die is an inherently personal issue, and she was in the incredibly unfortunate position to have a platform to potentially affect change. She told her story, the media seized on it, and she used them to advocate for a cause she believed in. We're calling that attention whoring now?

As for the family, euthanasia was the compassionate choice, not just for her but for them as well. Anyone who has seen a loved one waste away from cancer can attest to that, or at least understand the decision. She said her goodbyes, wished her loved ones well, and turned off the lights. I'd have done the exact same thing.

[Lord_Perseus]

(11-02-2014 11:33 PM)Sherman Wrote:  

America has become a toxic culture of death. The "progressives" are pushing the right to die, but it will evolve into the expectation to die for those deemed not worthy to live. You will find that under Obamacare after you reach a certain age, you won't get treatment for your illness, but rather palliative care to keep you comfortable while you sink into death.

Same reason why i'm opposed to legalizing it. It starts as being a matter of fighting for the rights of individuals to control their fates, before long those in positions of power start making these decisions for people because in their minds they think they know what is best in their minds. People could be morally opposed to euthanasia or too scared to do it, but some doctor or a paper pusher thinks they're too far gone or too insignifigent to save & pull the plug.

Show me a way to effectively safeguard against this i'll reconsider my position but I doubt it's possible

[2Wycked]

@Seamus

While there is more than a few things to object to in your post I will highlight two:

1. Please stop assuming if somebody has been through X, seen Y or felt Z, that their views or opinions are necessarily the same. If you are in your 20's, odds are pretty high that you have seen at least one family member or friend die. I have yet to go to a wedding in my family, but have been to multiple funerals. My grandfather died on my birthday. Don't presume that ignorance of pain necessarily informs views on euthanasia or suicide.

2. This isn't a compassionate choice. It is a selfish one. Just because one can sympathize or empathize with a person's personal anguish (imminent death, drug addiction, etc.), it doesn't necessarily mean that a person's choices with regards to these disquieting and emotionally charged situations is necessarily appropriate simply because the afflicted thinks it will help them.

Once again, she didn't do this for her family, she did for herself. This isn't arm-chair psychoanalysis, rationalization is obvious without regards to either sex. She tried and succeeded to convince herself about the justification for her suicide.

Let's consider this situation from a different angle. Many people see her suicide as justified, as her death was guaranteed. First off, that applies to everybody. Then, going forward, you must necessarily advance an "imminence of death" standard for self-imposed euthanasia (suicide). What temporal restrictions warrant a person to compassionately end their life? She was given, what, six months to live? Is that a short-enough standard to invoke her "right to die?" What if she was given 2 years? Does quality of life matter? Or is it just length? What if she was told she would have 48 hours to live but be fully able to enjoy life with no pain? Can she invoke her "right to die" in that hypothetical?

Does personal autonomy matter? What if she was addicted to cocaine? People choose addiction, not the reverse. What if cocaine caused her cancer? What if a genetic condition lead to her cancer? Is there a genealogical dimension to this alleged "right to death?"

The problem is you are trying to rationalize her decision to choose suicide. I get it, nobody ever truly believes suicide can be made rationally. Simply existing as living creatures, the most nativistic impulse is the will to live. Honestly, part of me thinks she went public with this to get approval for her decision. People do all sorts of stuff with a cheering, approving audience.

3. I'm not arguing with you for the sake the sake of argumentation, but you have bought into the mainstream view that "death with dignity" is something compassionate, something to help advance society.

On one hand, it gives power to social media (and media profits) because most people -- especially those the deceased's age -- will make tons of posts (which will draw quite a bit of attention in the form of shares, likes and comments) and will make media outlets quite bit of coin that the soon-to-be-deceased and their family ZERO coin. This woman alone has made media God-knows how much money.

On the other hand, it will feed the need (mostly for women) to be seen and slake their thirst for attention on social media. Yes, this is the same media that shames women for anonymity or not being on social media (see #Gamergate, which -- at least for major media outlets -- is about attacking anonymity online), so women like Maynard seek out attention in whatever form they get it in.

[Drazen]

That she seemingly changed her mind twice within a 24 hour window made me thing she wasn't sure she wanted to die when she did.

However, she was a figurehead for a movement, a heavily funded political movement. Not saying she was forced, but I suspect there was pressure on her to end her life according to schedule, perhaps whether she wanted to or not. It could have come from others, it come have come from herself, but the fact she postponed it shows some doubt.

[Ziltoid]

How is it selfish, 2Wycked?
What is inherently more tragic and damaging to the family about someone dying relatively comfortably and quickly, rather than succumbing to a painful and drawn out decline of function?

You can't seriously think people are standing around clutching their heads and pontificating "Why did they do it?! They had so much to live for!" in situations like this...?
This is not an able bodied youth who's life aside from some mental illness issues is an open book of potential throwing themselves off a building.
This is a sick person who's going to die soon anyway, probably in a really shitty way.

Quote:

Let's consider this situation from a different angle. Many people see her suicide as justified, as her death was guaranteed. First off, that applies to everybody. Then, going forward, you must necessarily advance an "imminence of death" standard for self-imposed euthanasia (suicide). What temporal restrictions warrant a person to compassionately end their life? She was given, what, six months to live? Is that a short-enough standard to invoke her "right to die?" What if she was given 2 years? Does quality of life matter? Or is it just length? What if she was told she would have 48 hours to live but be fully able to enjoy life with no pain? Can she invoke her "right to die" in that hypothetical?

False dilemma.

[Seamus]

@2Wycked

I don't have the time/energy to respond to that whole post, but I'll address a couple points before crashing:

(11-03-2014 12:46 AM)2Wycked Wrote:  

1. Please stop assuming if somebody has been through X, seen Y or felt Z, that their views or opinions are necessarily the same.

I said that anyone who has seen a loved one waste away from terminal cancer can, if not agree with, then at least understand the decision to spare the family that experience via euthanasia. You honestly find that a troubling statement?

(11-03-2014 12:46 AM)2Wycked Wrote:  

2. This isn't a compassionate choice. It is a selfish one.

Now that on the other hand is one helluva troubling generalization. Selfish how? Selfish to not rot away in front of her family? Selfish to say goodbye with grace? Selfish to not force her husband to clean up after her when she loses control of her bodily functions? And if deciding how you want to go out is selfish, then so what? If there's a time to consider your own needs, painfully dying from terminal brain cancer might just be that time. It just so happens that her own best interests (as she saw them) and those of her family arguably aligned here.

(11-03-2014 12:46 AM)2Wycked Wrote:  

The problem is you are trying to rationalize her decision to choose suicide.

What I'm doing is arguing that she should have the choice, one way or the other, and that in her case I support the move. You on the other hand are arguing that anyone who makes the decision you disagree with is categorically wrong, self-deluded, and irrational.

Don't get me wrong, I can see why people would be opposed to euthanasia for themselves. But denying that agency to other people (not talking legislation, just generally speaking) is something else entirely.

[Private Man]

Speaking as the guy with cancer, I have empathy regarding the girl's decision. However, the attention-getting element of her demise is something I simply can't understand.

Now that she has passed away, her husband and family must deal with the media, a terribly ugly prospect. There is no dignity when a "journalist" hoping for a sound-bite is shoving a microphone into the face of a grieving family member.

So, with that said, here's a dancing banana because I hate this topic.

[getdownonit]

WB

although that doggy thread is giving me second thoughts