[Gmac]

This is starting to sound like the alpha vs. beta debates...

[Dash Global]

(07-31-2011 01:35 PM)neil_k Wrote:  

(03-11-2011 11:06 PM)Dash Global Wrote:  

You need high value and status or good looks to be successful with direct game on a consistent basis.

Again, this is one of the other popularly held misconceptions that indirect/PUA guys have about Direct.

Us Direct guys don't waste time mentaly masturbating on theories such as 'value' and 'status'.

If anything, a man who is confidently Direct with women will automatically be perceived as 'high value' or 'high status'.

I disagree. If you come on direct without good looks, status/value, or high social proof 8 times out of 10 you will get shut down. Any thinking otherwise is just not living in reality. And by direct I mean opening in a sexually direct way. ie letting her know right away you are interested in fucking her that night by some shape or fashion.

(03-11-2011 11:06 PM)Dash Global Wrote:  

If u are an ugly dude and go direct u will get shut down REAL quick.

Again, this isn't true. Have you heard of David X, the Godfather of Direct? If not, look him up. He is NOT good looking. In fact he is quite ugly physically, but he has enjoyed massive success with women from Direct.

There are many examples of men in society who are average or below average looking who are Direct with women and do really well.

The bottom line is: women aren't attracted to men who are merely good-looking. They are attracted to men who are ATTRACTIVE. Big difference.

Being attractive is a combination of a man's confidence and demeanor, not merely his looks.

So an UGLY as fuck dude with zero money or social status that thinks he is brad pitt with endless confidence is ATTRACTIVE and can pull hot chicks? Here again this is wishful thinking at best.

(03-11-2011 11:06 PM)Dash Global Wrote:  

i like roosh's club scenario about getting alot of IOI's and being approached outright by females. direct game would stand alot better chance of success in this case as opposed to a cold approach without any IOI's.

I think it's a mistake to wait for 'IOIs' before approaching a girl. I don't wait for a sign before I approach a girl. If I see a girl I am physically attracted to, I approach her. End of. That is Direct.

I've had plenty of success without ever waiting for 'IOIs'. A confident man does not need to wait until he gets an 'IOI'. He should approach whoever he likes the look of. Only weak guys wait for an 'IOI' before approaching.

Not all women give out 'IOIs' anyway, so you will miss out on a lot of women by waiting around for 'signs' they want to be approach.

It's never hindered me to not wait for an 'IOI', so I disagree with this point.

Nothing wrong with approaching without IOI's. It is actually better that way. Only thing most people lack the confidence to take the number of shut downs and blow offs that come along with approaching without IOI's. Also someone that goes off IOI's will have a higher success rate than someone that doesnt. (ie percent closed on approach)

(03-11-2011 11:06 PM)Dash Global Wrote:  

for the average looking/status guy indirect game is more fruitful.

Again, not true. What are you basing all these assumptions/misconceptions on?

Tons of personal experiences coupled with countless hours / years of watching male/female interactions in bars and clubs.

(03-11-2011 11:06 PM)Dash Global Wrote:  

not saying u shouldnt use direct game, u just need to know WHEN to use it.

You can use Direct in ANY situation. There is no situation where you cannot use Direct to approach a woman.

You can use direct game in any situation. Just be prepared to shut down more times than not.

Like I already stated, women do not have to be attracted to you in any way shape or form to have sex with you. I know plenty of girls that fuck ugly dead beat lame ass losers simply because he was in the right time and place or he showed interest at the right time. That is why going indirect is better in the sense that you will have more options and a chance where if you went direct out the gate you would have been shut down.

[neil_k]

(07-31-2011 01:45 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

Dude, instead of typing out essays about indirect vs direct to start some drama, why don't you post some direct game knowledge so that guys can try for themselves?

There are many ways to skin a cat.. we already know this. But to come on a forum to say "Direct is the only way, I use it all the time" but not actually describe your game is pretty close to trolling.

I'm not 'trolling', I'm simply responding to the comments about that post I originally commented on.

I would be very happy to share some Direct knowledge. What would you guys like me to share? If you have any questions about how I approach Direct, or any other aspect of Direct, please ask.

[neil_k]

(03-12-2011 01:27 AM)Dueyz Wrote:  

Their defalt response in these anxious encounters is 'no thank you'.

If a girl is saying that all the time, something about your Direct approach is off. It's her reaction to YOU and not the Direct approach that was causing her to say 'no thank you'. I rarely get that kind of response myself when I'm Direct.

(03-12-2011 01:27 AM)Dueyz Wrote:  

Now I approach more softly within the first 60 seconds. If she responds better with a little coaxing, you wont have much more than 60 seconds in the initial meeting to make sure you aren't being too direct.

I don't believe it's possible to be 'too Direct'.

[Dash Global]

(07-31-2011 01:57 PM)neil_k Wrote:  

I don't believe it's possible to be 'too Direct'.

Ill give you an example

HB 8 sitting at the bar drinking alone. You approach and open...

You: Hey sexy, I wanna fuck your brains out tonight.
Her: Get lost creep.

Now, I approach with indirect game and dont get blown out which allows me to work my game and build comfort and rapor. Putting myself in position to close at the end of the night.

[Gmac]

In general, black and hispanic guys are the biggest culprits for being too direct. We call it cat-calling.

[neil_k]

(07-31-2011 01:56 PM)Dash Global Wrote:  

You need high value and status or good looks to be successful with direct game on a consistent basis.

What is your personal definition of 'high value' and 'status'? I need to know what you mean exactly by this before I can comment.

The bottom line is, you don't need to be wealthy or have high 'life status' to successfully approach and fuck women from a Direct approach.

I actually believe that 'value' and 'status' are inner, intrinsic qualities inside a man. A man's value is not determined by his bank balance, job or career. A man's value is all to do with what he believes about himself and how he feels about himself and how he projects those beliefs onto people he meets. But I digress...

(03-11-2011 11:06 PM)Dash Global Wrote:  

I disagree. If you come on direct without good looks, status/value, or high social proof 8 times out of 10 you will get shut down. Any thinking otherwise is just not living in reality. And by direct I mean opening in a sexually direct way. ie letting her know right away you are interested in fucking her that night by some shape or fashion.

I disagree with you. The only thing that matters when you approach a girl Direct is whether she feels that 'gut level' sexual attraction towards you. This is something that transcends 'status', 'social value' etc.

I believe that when a guy confidently approaches a girl Direct, it is sort of assumed that he is of 'high status', since only a guy of 'high status' would be that confident and Direct anyway.

Direct guys don't worry about all that social theory bs such as 'high social proof' etc. We leave that to the indirect/PUA guys. We Direct guys simply concentrate on approaching women in the most highly self-assured, Direct, upfront manner, and letting the results take care of themselves.

(03-11-2011 11:06 PM)Dash Global Wrote:  

If u are an ugly dude and go direct u will get shut down REAL quick.

Not necessarily. As I said, there are lots of examples of men who are physically ugly but do really well from Direct.

As Alan Roger Currie once said: 'woman are intrigued by men who are not physically attractive, but who carry themselves with a boatload of confidence'.

(03-11-2011 11:06 PM)Dash Global Wrote:  

So an UGLY as fuck dude with zero money or social status that thinks he is brad pitt with endless confidence is ATTRACTIVE and can pull hot chicks? Here again this is wishful thinking at best.

Highly depends upon the guy. But yes, a guy who is ugly with zero money could still get women, if he has good Direct game and knows to get a woman's pussy wet with his Direct approach. This is a skill that transcends money and so on.

It talks about how women respond to men based not merely on their 'life status', but how 'alpha' or 'beta' you are perceived to be.

(03-11-2011 11:06 PM)Dash Global Wrote:  

Nothing wrong with approaching without IOI's. It is actually better that way. Only thing most people lack the confidence to take the number of shut downs and blow offs that come along with approaching without IOI's. Also someone that goes off IOI's will have a higher success rate than someone that doesnt. (ie percent closed on approach)

Depends. A guy who waits for IOIs will approach fewer women, so in that respect he may have a lower success rate overall than a bold guy who doesn't give a fuck and approaches tons of women regardless of IOIs.

(03-11-2011 11:06 PM)Dash Global Wrote:  

You can use direct game in any situation. Just be prepared to shut down more times than not

Any girl who rejects a guy from a Direct approach would've rejected him regardless of whether he approached her indirect or direct. She just wasn't attracted to him. No amount of running indirect 'game' would've changed her mind, and this is one thing the indirect/PUA guys fail to understand.

I'd rather find out UPFRONT whether a girl is interested in me or not, hence my preference for Direct.

[Dash Global]

(07-31-2011 02:20 PM)Gmac Wrote:  

In general, black and hispanic guys are the biggest culprits for being too direct. We call it cat-calling.

And guess which guys I see getting shutdown the most..... lol

[Roosh]

Neil still hasn't posted his game, let alone sample dialogue.

Keyboard jockey troll who can argue game all day but can't produce game. Posting one paragraph response to every sentence.

Countdown to ban...

[neil_k]

(07-31-2011 02:28 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

Neil still hasn't posted his game, let alone sample dialogue.

Keyboard jockey troll who can argue game all day but can't produce game. Posting one paragraph response to every sentence.

Countdown to ban...

Direct is more a MINDSET...the exact words vary. Direct is not a script or a routine, unlike indirect.

As I said before, I'm happy to answer any questions about Direct. So if you or anyone else have any specific questions, just ask.

[Dash Global]

(07-31-2011 02:21 PM)neil_k Wrote:  

(07-31-2011 01:56 PM)Dash Global Wrote:  

You need high value and status or good looks to be successful with direct game on a consistent basis.

What is your personal definition of 'high value' and 'status'? I need to know what you mean exactly by this before I can comment.

Money, fame, status, ect

The bottom line is, you don't need to be wealthy or have high 'life status' to successfully approach and fuck women from a Direct approach.

I actually believe that 'value' and 'status' are inner, intrinsic qualities inside a man. A man's value is not determined by his bank balance, job or career. A man's value is all to do with what he believes about himself and how he feels about himself and how he projects those beliefs onto people he meets. But I digress...

We call most of those cats DELUSIONAL lol

(03-11-2011 11:06 PM)Dash Global Wrote:  

I disagree. If you come on direct without good looks, status/value, or high social proof 8 times out of 10 you will get shut down. Any thinking otherwise is just not living in reality. And by direct I mean opening in a sexually direct way. ie letting her know right away you are interested in fucking her that night by some shape or fashion.

I disagree with you. The only thing that matters when you approach a girl Direct is whether she feels that 'gut level' sexual attraction towards you. This is something that transcends 'status', 'social value' etc.

Exactly, which is why looks play a big factor in this. Girls are not sexually attracted to solely confidence. This can be proved with any ugly ass dude that is confident that cold approaches and opens direct on a HB8 or above. He will get SHUT THE FUCK DOWN 9 times out of 10

I believe that when a guy confidently approaches a girl Direct, it is sort of assumed that he is of 'high status', since only a guy of 'high status' would be that confident and Direct anyway.

Nope. There is plenty of idiots that go direct all the time. Black guys are a prime example. Women dont assume they are high status.

Direct guys don't worry about all that social theory bs such as 'high social proof' etc. We leave that to the indirect/PUA guys. We Direct guys simply concentrate on approaching women in the most highly self-assured, Direct, upfront manner, and letting the results take care of themselves.

(03-11-2011 11:06 PM)Dash Global Wrote:  

If u are an ugly dude and go direct u will get shut down REAL quick.

Not necessarily. As I said, there are lots of examples of men who are physically ugly but do really well from Direct.

Dude, you are living in a fantasy world to try and dispute that statement. UGLY ASS dudes with zero money, fame, or social status will not pull HOT CHICKS. You have to atleast be average looking to get past the initial shields ESP if you go DIRECT.

So if a 300 pound chicks approaches you with endless confidence and swag your gonna be some what attracted to her? Get the fuck out of here lol

As Alan Roger Currie once said: 'woman are intrigued by men who are not physically attractive, but who carry themselves with a boatload of confidence'.

Yea, they are intrigued at one of two things. 1. This dude must have money or fame. 2 This dude is dumb as fuck and lives in a fantasy world

(03-11-2011 11:06 PM)Dash Global Wrote:  

So an UGLY as fuck dude with zero money or social status that thinks he is brad pitt with endless confidence is ATTRACTIVE and can pull hot chicks? Here again this is wishful thinking at best.

Highly depends upon the guy. But yes, a guy who is ugly with no money and zero money could still get women, if he has good Direct game.

Dude anyone can pull ugly chicks. Im talking about hot women. So ur statement is true "and ugly dude can still get women". Prob is he wont be getting FINE WOMEN

It talks about how women respond to men based not merely on their 'life status', but how 'alpha' or 'beta' you are perceived to be.

(03-11-2011 11:06 PM)Dash Global Wrote:  

Nothing wrong with approaching without IOI's. It is actually better that way. Only thing most people lack the confidence to take the number of shut downs and blow offs that come along with approaching without IOI's. Also someone that goes off IOI's will have a higher success rate than someone that doesnt. (ie percent closed on approach)

Depends. A guy who waits for IOIs will approach fewer women, so in that respect he may have a lower success rate overall than a bold guy who doesn't give a fuck and approaches tons of women regardless of IOIs.

You are confusing sheer numbers to percent closed on approach. I will give you the fact that a dude that doesnt wait for IOI's will in the long run bang more bitches. But like I said he will get shut down alot more times than the other guy.

(03-11-2011 11:06 PM)Dash Global Wrote:  

You can use direct game in any situation. Just be prepared to shut down more times than not

Any girl who rejects a guy from a Direct approach would've rejected him regardless of whether he approached her indirect or direct. She just wasn't attracted to him. No amount of running indirect 'game' would've changed her mind, and this is one thing the indirect/PUA guys fail to understand.

this is 110% a complete lie! guys can MAKE a woman attracted to them. even if he cant, that doesnt mean she wont fuck him.

I'd rather find out UPFRONT whether a girl is interested in me or not, hence my preference for Direct.

[neil_k]

I won't respond to discussions about 'status', 'value', or any other indirect stuff. We're just going round in circles, and the discussion is becoming 'hateful'.

As I said, I'm perfectly happy to answer any specific questions regarding Direct/Mode One, so if you have any just ask and I'll happily reply.

Cheers,

neil_k.

[Dash Global]

(07-31-2011 02:15 PM)Dash Global Wrote:  

(07-31-2011 01:57 PM)neil_k Wrote:  

I don't believe it's possible to be 'too Direct'.

Ill give you an example

HB 8 sitting at the bar drinking alone. You approach and open...

You: Hey sexy, I wanna fuck your brains out tonight.
Her: Get lost creep.

Now, I approach with indirect game and dont get blown out which allows me to work my game and build comfort and rapor. Putting myself in position to close at the end of the night.

Hey neil, just address this por favor....

[Roosh]

Can't give an example.
Can't explain what exactly direct game is.
Can't explain the "mindset" behind direct game.

But can write thousands of words without really saying anything at all.

Goodbye troll.

[thegmanifesto]

Wow.

That was quick.

Dash -

Good posts, and good work on smacking that guy around.

[Giovonny]

We should have asked him to post in the "Open This Chick" thread. I would love to hear some of his openers.

I knew he was funny when he said girls often respond to his direct Game with...."Aww Thanks"

"Aww Thanks" = "thanks for the free ego boost but you're still just a dorky little beta dude"

I'm actually going more indirect these days partly because of this discussion. But, I think that some chicks do respond better to direct. Especially, the sexy or slutty ones who are already looking for male attention and validation. There is a time to use both methods. Seasoned players know which one to use just by looking at the way she dresses and carries herself.

Mixx makes some great points about making cultural adjustments. I call that "Fishbowl Awareness"

[Dash Global]

The thing that these cats are missing is

1. A girl doesnt have to be attracted to you to fuck you.

2. You can make a female attracted to you when she initially wasnt.

How fucking dumb to you have to be to not acknowledge these facts.

This alone makes going indirect better in some situations.

[Gmac]

(07-31-2011 04:17 PM)Dash Global Wrote:  

The thing that these cats are missing is

1. A girl doesnt have to be attracted to you to fuck you.

2. You can make a female attracted to you when she initially wasnt.

How fucking dumb to you have to be to not acknowledge these facts.

This alone makes going indirect better in some situations.

Bingo.

I have been python gaming my recently single, hot roommate for about a year. It's a tricky situation and she's been in two relationships where I know she wasn't willing to cheat. Had I gone direct at any point it would have no doubt backfired in every way imaginable.

[Samseau]

Neil_K is hardly a new phenomena.

Every time I see ModeOne or Direct Game get criticized in any forum or blog, fanatics come out of the woodwork to defend its honor. I cannot believe how devoted people are to a single kind of game. Makes no fucking sense to me.

And of course, these guys will never give examples of how to run a good direct game, but will continuously praise its virtues.

[Roosh]

Quote:

And of course, these guys will never give examples of how to run a good direct game, but will continuously praise its virtues.

He was irritating as hell. Let's reenact what just happened...

Neil: "I run direct game all the time, in every venue. It works almost 100% of the time."

Roosh: "Can you give an example of an approach? Some dialogue maybe."

Neil: "I don't understand what you mean. Direct game is the best."

Roosh: "An example? An opener?"

Neil: "I can't. Direct game is a mindset, it's not a line."

[OGNorCal707]

Has anyone on here read "Mode One", is it worth buying and reading? I don't see the need to subscribe to one "school of game" or another when it comes to direct/indirect, routines vs. natural game, etc. If you can extract some knowledge and insight and incorporate it into your life, than it's all the better. I'm sure Roosh has gone direct in certain situations and it's worked out well for him.

I'm all about trying to gain as much knowledge and understanding as possible, a lot of times this involves reading, studying, trying different things from different schools of thought, or point of view. It's like with religion, when you got hindus and muslims fighting each other over different beliefs, when each belief system has valuable wisdom to share. The guy who studys Buddhism, Christianity, Rastafari, Confuscious, etc., will have much greater depth and wisdom, then the guy who just blindly follows one religion like a robot, never questioning, or examining different ideas, perspectives, and views.

[thegmanifesto]

I think a lot of this "I only go direct, no need to waste time, I am The Super G" type stuff flies really well on the Internet.

But come on. In the real world that we all live in, the super Direct Game is not the cure all.

Sure it might work at times, and is probably a good move at 4am in Las Vegas, but let's be real.

Direct Game is just another "combination" in your arsenal (like a jab-jab-left hook-straight right to the head) ie Pac-Man.

You can't do it all night, but if it lands, you are feeling good.

[blurb]

Some direct game openers:

http://www.tsbmag.com/2007/12/19/pua-ope...om-badboy/

[Roosh]

Quote:

I'm sure Roosh has gone direct in certain situations and it's worked out well for him.

Of course. Maybe not for opening but other parts in the interaction.

It's just that the direct guys have a real chip on their shoulder. They trash indirect game more than explaining their methods. Sure I'll rag on direct openers every now and then (e.g. sasha's day game video), but I'm not going to start a crusade against a type of game.

[Samseau]

My favorite Direct Opener is the one posted by Roissy:

ME: [looking disapprovingly at her head] Doing your hair like that is only going to attract the wrong kind of guy.
GIRL: [if she's cool and witty] Are you saying you’re the wrong kind of guy?
ME: Since I noticed that hairstyle, I must be.

***

ME: Doing your hair like that is only going to attract the wrong kind of guy.
GIRL: [if she's not cool or witty] What’s that supposed to mean?
ME: You hair covers half your face, like you’re trying to hide something. The wrong kind of guys love that. [turn my back]




The very first time I used it, I banged a really cute chick. And it's never worked for me since But I still throw it out once in awhile.