[runsonmagic]

Recently, I've noticed a desire in myself for war - a desire to play the role of warrior, to fight for a cause, and to win.

When we discuss feminist culture wars of the forum, I have two inclinations 1) ignore their nonsense 2) fight them and win. Things like #EndFathersDay excite me because of how interesting they are from a strategic perspective. I suspect many activists - on both sides - are activists because of a warped desire to belong to a tribe and conquer cultural enemies.

The desire for purpose is stronger than the desire for sex. In ancient times, it's probably what would lead to sex with the women of a conquered enemy. Now, the only spaces for war-like desires are business, marketing, culture wars, etc. I can find purpose in work, but physically it just feels like typing on the keyboard. I'd join the military if I had the slightest belief in their cause, and if I didn't see their organizations getting feminized.

I lift, I train in martial arts, but these outlets are like video games - a simulation of the real thing. It feels a bit silly to write about, but I've learned to honor whatever desires come up. I'm curious if others have felt the same way, or found an outlet for this.

I remember after 9/11 the whole country had this desire. When asked what we could do, G.W. Bush said the best thing would be to shop. It was like a kick in the balls to American patriotism, to suggest something so banal in response to what Americans were feeling. Now, it seems like that's the default level of response.

I'm writing about something I'm still figuring out. Those familiar with Jack Donovan's work might find it a bit clearer, as he talks about how men are allowed to play the role of spiritual or metaphysical warrior, but never a real warrior. Does anyone else ever feel the same?

[strengthstudent]

I have been looking for a glorious way to die.

[space]

Nietzsche said it best:

"The true man wants two things: danger and play"

There's no real, purposeful danger in modern life. Nothing worth dying for. Not for atheists anyway. That's why radicalism is such a draw for young Muslim men, volunteering to fight and die in Iraq, Syria, Yemen, Afghanistan, Nigeria...the list goes on.

[Icarus]

From the opening pages of Ernst Jünger's brutal and fascinating Storm of Steel, a book based on Jünger's 4 years of experience on trench warfare on the Western Front in WWI:

Quote:

The train stopped at Bazancourt, a small town in Champagne, and we got out. Full of awe and incredulity, we listened to the slow grinding pulse of the front, a rhythm we were to become mightily familiar with over the years. The white ball of a shrapnel shell melted far off, suffusing the grey December sky. The breath of battle blew across to us, and we shuddered. Did we sense that almost all of us - some sooner, some later - were to be consumed by it, on days when the dark grumbling yonder would crash over our heads like an incessant thunder?

We had come from lecture halls, school desks and factory workbenches, and over the brief weeks of training, we had bonded together into one large and enthusiastic group. Grown up in an age of security, we shared a yearning for danger, for the experience of
the extraordinary. We were enraptured by war. We had set out in a rain of flowers, in a drunken atmosphere of blood and roses. Surely the war had to supply us with what we wanted; the great, the overwhelming, the hallowed experience. We thought of it as manly, as action, a merry duelling party on flowered, blood-bedewed meadows. 'No finer death in all the world than ...' Anything to participate, not to have to stay at home!

[soup]

Yes, pussy warrior.

[WestIndianArchie]

Never, I have family in the military.

WIA

[El Chinito loco]

I'll admit there are times when i'm watching a war movie or series about WW2 that I feel envious. The greatest generation actually had a real cause to fight for. Soldiers were dropping dead like flies but if you were doing it for a noble and honorable cause then it sorts of fulfills your purpose in life.

These days there's absolutely nothing worth fighting or dying for militarily. Each cause is as phony as the next. American society is full of faggots, feminists, and assholes not pulling their own weight so why should you risk injury for these people?

[Icarus]

(06-22-2014 11:50 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

Never, I have family in the military.

One could be pedantic and argue that being a soldier is not the same as being a warrior.

A soldier is a government employee and follows orders. It's a job.

Being a warrior is about having a calling. Warriors don't fight for a cause, for ideas, or to defend their nation. They fight because it's fun. It's a game, and the words "game" and "job" are usually regarded as antonyms. Warriors in today's world are probably more attracted to martial arts and competitions like the Ultimate Fighting Championship than to military service. A warrior fights to test his mettle, not for ideas, and certainly not for a government.

[KC4]

Funny you started this thread, i wanted to create a somewhat similar thread about why we love to fight. I used to think fighting was stupid then i got into mma and i loved it.

My answer would be that it is in the human dna. For every century there has been a major war and for every cause there has been an opposition and some would not fight for the cause but just to fight. That and that we are animals and when we fight, that side comes out and we love it. You should look up reptile brain pretty interesting stuff

[JoyStick]

The urge is what make so many guys white knight.

[Foolsgo1d]

You're getting mixed up with wanting to fight and wanting to see what you could do in war.

Whats to say you dont bite a bullet at the start? A war involving conscription for the masses wont be pretty so I dont see why you would want that.

[General Mayhem]

Romanticizing war is dangerous. I cringe sometimes when people relate war to other pursuits. I cringe when I hear pop songs with war references.

War is hell.

[AntiTrace]

fighting is fun. fighting gives an adrenaline high. That shit is beyond addicting.

War is horrible. You lose friend and family members. You see sights that stick with you for your entire life. You don't go to war and come back the same person.

as a caveat, fighting in war is addicting. No better feeling than laying some hate on the opposing force while returning with all your guys at your side.

[scorpion]

Men want to conquer, to win, to claim victory over an enemy. Warfare provides the ultimate opportunity to do this.

But of course, men only do this because they expect to win. A lot of guys enjoy fighting, but nobody enjoys getting knocked out. Nobody would start a fight if they knew they were going to get knocked out. It's the same with war. Nobody goes to war expecting they will come back missing limbs or in a box. They might understand that risk intellectually, but nobody actually believes it will happen to them. That's because you can't. If you did, there's no way you could do it.

But the reality of war is that for every guy who catches a high from killing his enemy, another man's life is snuffed out. It's a zero sum game.

In the ancient days, being a skilled warrior greatly enhanced a man's ability to both kill and survive on the battlefield. In those days a warrior would train for years with various martial weapons (i.e. sword and shield, spear, bow and arrow, etc...). He would become an expert horseman. He would learn how to move and fight while wearing armor. All of these things would help him stay alive and make him much more valuable on the field than some pitchfork-wielding peasant.

Today, increases in technology have made war more of a crapshoot than anything. All your ability and knowledge can't protect you from a bad roll of the dice that sends an artillery shell right on top of you, or from a roadside bomb you drive over, or from a sniper who catches you in a vulnerable moment. A 12 year old kid with an AK-47 can easily kill the most hardened Special Forces Operator. A single anti-aircraft missile fired by a goat herder moonlighting as an insurgent can bring down a helicopter full of Navy SEALs.

Hemingway has a famous quote about how in modern war, you will die like a dog for no good reason. And that's pretty much right. I don't see much glory in it these days. Maybe if there was a real cause worth fighting for. But in my opinion there hasn't been a U.S. war legitimately worth fighting since the Civil War. All of these foreign military adventures (yes, including WWI & WWII) have never been worth a drop of American blood. I sure as fuck see no purpose in spilling my blood in foreign lands for the benefit of corrupt politicians and their corporate/banker masters. That ain't my definition of glory.

[runsonmagic]

To clarify - I don't have an interest in actual war. I am simply noticing a desire for certain aspects of it.

Some good responses here. I'm gonna have to think on them.

[Goldmund]

There is a place upstate where I go a few times every spring and summer.

It's a lake that I found using google earth--a two mile hike into the hills, through the woods (no trail), completely isolated.

I go there alone with fishing equipment and take that shit as serious as I can.

I gut and clean the fish right there on the lake side before heading back. I return back to civilization bloodied, dirty, and satisfied from the hunt.

It certainly fulfills my desire to kill.

I would like to get into bow hunting at some point and track down some deer. My grandfather is Native American and he taught me how to track animals when I was young. That shit is amazing...its like having super powers.

[Dr. Howard]

You can take on the wilderness in a you vs. it war without costing other human lives. Standing off with a bear with no gun or vehicle to run to? Struggling to jury rig and repair a broken down or stuck truck because once night hits that means you've got at least 18 hours in sub freezing temperatures before you can start hiking 200km out the main road? Trying to keep your brother conscious while he's dying, pinned under a fallen tree with the air ambulance en route? All of these brutal experiences can be yours with a career as forester, logger or prospector in the canadian wilderness.

[Solus]

War in the classic sense combines two essential components of masculinity: purpose and brotherhood.

There's no greater purpose than risking your life against those who would harm you and nothing brings men together like a common goal (or enemy).

As others have said nowadays war is less about preventing your impending destruction and more about serving the interests of others who will never set foot onto a battlefield.

I can relate to the need for purpose, though. We've traded the horrors and glories of war for a comparatively neutered existence and while it's not without unique problems I challenge anyone complaining about issues like feminism to spend a single day in a war zone, if only for the perspective.

War is still hell.

[General Mayhem]

(06-22-2014 02:45 PM)Goldmund Wrote:  

There is a place upstate where I go a few times every spring and summer.

It's a lake that I found using google earth--a two mile hike into the hills, through the woods (no trail), completely isolated.

I go there alone with fishing equipment and take that shit as serious as I can.

I gut and clean the fish right there on the lake side before heading back. I return back to civilization bloodied, dirty, and satisfied from the hunt.

It certainly fulfills my desire to kill.

I would like to get into bow hunting at some point and track down some deer. My grandfather is Native American and he taught me how to track animals when I was young. That shit is amazing...its like having super powers.

This is a good point.

This hits a lot of aspects of masculinity, survival, adventure, etc. Things we have lost touch with in modern culture.

[The Lizard of Oz]

[Quintus Curtius]

(06-22-2014 09:31 AM)Icarus Wrote:  

From the opening pages of Ernst Jünger's brutal and fascinating Storm of Steel, a book based on Jünger's 4 years of experience on trench warfare on the Western Front in WWI:

Quote:

The train stopped at Bazancourt, a small town in Champagne, and we got out. Full of awe and incredulity, we listened to the slow grinding pulse of the front, a rhythm we were to become mightily familiar with over the years. The white ball of a shrapnel shell melted far off, suffusing the grey December sky. The breath of battle blew across to us, and we shuddered. Did we sense that almost all of us - some sooner, some later - were to be consumed by it, on days when the dark grumbling yonder would crash over our heads like an incessant thunder?

We had come from lecture halls, school desks and factory workbenches, and over the brief weeks of training, we had bonded together into one large and enthusiastic group. Grown up in an age of security, we shared a yearning for danger, for the experience of
the extraordinary. We were enraptured by war. We had set out in a rain of flowers, in a drunken atmosphere of blood and roses. Surely the war had to supply us with what we wanted; the great, the overwhelming, the hallowed experience. We thought of it as manly, as action, a merry duelling party on flowered, blood-bedewed meadows. 'No finer death in all the world than ...' Anything to participate, not to have to stay at home!

I just bought this book today. Can't wait till it arrives. Just reading some snippets from it made want to wipe the sweat from my brow.

It is the most militant, unabashedly aggressive, fantastic war memoir I have seen yet. And I've only seen excerpts from it.

But from what I've read so far, I feel like picking up a Mauser rifle, donning a Stalhelm and leaping into the trenches to help Junger fight off the French poilus and British Tommies.


.

[Farmageddon]

Quote:

There's no real, purposeful danger in modern life. Nothing worth dying for. Not for atheists anyway. That's why radicalism is such a draw for young Muslim men, volunteering to fight and die in Iraq, Syria, Yemen, Afghanistan, Nigeria...the list goes on.

uh, what about fighting against this ridiculousness? Hell, you don't even have to step out onto the battlefield these days. You could just change minds with the persuasiveness of your arguments.

[The Lizard of Oz]

A truly great memoir of war from a brave and gentle man:

"With the Old Breed: At Peleliu and Okinawa"

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

Well after all, Runsonmagic, I'm an ordinary man,
Who desires nothing more than an ordinary chance,
to live exactly as he likes, and do precisely what he wants...
An average man am I, of no eccentric whim,
Who likes to live his life, free of strife,
doing whatever he thinks is best, for him...

[The PerSev]

(06-22-2014 12:09 PM)Icarus Wrote:  

(06-22-2014 11:50 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

Never, I have family in the military.

One could be pedantic and argue that being a soldier is not the same as being a warrior.

A soldier is a government employee and follows orders. It's a job.

Being a warrior is about having a calling. Warriors don't fight for a cause, for ideas, or to defend their nation. They fight because it's fun. It's a game, and the words "game" and "job" are usually regarded as antonyms. Warriors in today's world are probably more attracted to martial arts and competitions like the Ultimate Fighting Championship than to military service. A warrior fights to test his mettle, not for ideas, and certainly not for a government.

Bingo.

Much ink has been spilled over the fact that the warrior is deep down a pretty humane, honorable guy. That's utter drivel. The path of the warrior is the path of willful violence unto others. Because you want to, not because you're ordered to.

Miyamoto Musashi was a warrior, the best of his time in Japan. He fought all those duels and battles for one reason and one reason only: to prove he was the best. That's it. Not in defense of his homeland, not for a Great Cause like democracy or the defeat of fascism or communism, not for anything else.

There have always been few 'true warriors', and this is especially the case in the the modern day West. Even among the elite SOF units, true warriors are hard to find. It's not a question of toughness or skill, which those men certainly have, it's a question of the way you look at the world: the warrior thinks like a predator, and wants to be at the top of the food chain.

That isn't to say I'm passing moral judgement on the warrior. If that's your thing, go for it. But today people only adapt the image of the warrior when it's convenient, like Marcus Luttrell for instance.