[familydude]

I'm looking for options on permanently remaining in Europe. I'm curious about how some of you guys are handling this without returning to the US? What are some good resources on the subject?

After some brief research, I've come up with the following possibilities :
- 1 year tourist visa in a shengen country, but I heard these are rarely renewed
- Start a company : the EE countries I've looked into require the creation of 10 jobs.
- Start a non-profit organization : I've heard of some expats who've had great success at milking the system with this. Needs more investigation.
- Move around : 3 months in the shengen region then escape to serbia/croatia/whatever for another 3 months and repeat. Far from ideal for me.
- Teaching english or other bullshit exchange programs. Not really interested in this, maybe if it occupied less than 8 hours per week of my time.

[subutai]

(02-16-2011 06:16 AM)familydude Wrote:  

I'm looking for options on permanently remaining in Europe. Next year, I will no longer be receiving sponsorship from my employer. I'm curious about how some of you guys are handling this without returning to the US? What are some good resources on the subject?

After some brief research, I've come up with the following possibilities :
- 1 year tourist visa in a shengen country, but I heard these are rarely renewed
- Start a company : the EE countries I've looked into require the creation of 10 jobs.
- Start a non-profit organization : I've heard of some expats who've had great success at milking the system with this. Needs more investigation.
- Move around : 3 months in the shengen region then escape to serbia/croatia/whatever for another 3 months and repeat. Far from ideal for me.
- Teaching english or other bullshit exchange programs. Not really interested in this, maybe if it occupied less than 8 hours per week of my time.

I can point you in the right direction. Probably best if you use Skype or MSN -- I think you may have sent it to me already but I can't recall.

It's much easier than people think it is.

[Tommy]

I think it's not hard if you are a U.S. citizen.

[Screwston]

Is it really that easy? I assumed its kind of difficult and expensive...

[emh]

(02-22-2011 04:30 AM)houston Wrote:  

Is it really that easy? I assumed its kind of difficult and expensive...

Everything I've read on the subject says that you're correct. You can always live there illegally but if you get caught, you'll be deported and banned from Europe schengen region for 5-10 years.

[subutai]

Actually that's not accurate.

Depends on whether you have independent legal income from a foreign source that can sustain you at a level well above that of the local citizens.

In other words, can you show tht you're "rich" and there to just "spend" and not take a local job.

If so, you're all set.

[emh]

(02-22-2011 06:26 AM)subutai Wrote:  

Actually that's not accurate.

Depends on whether you have independent legal income from a foreign source that can sustain you at a level well above that of the local citizens.

In other words, can you show tht you're "rich" and there to just "spend" and not take a local job.

If so, you're all set.

Well it depends on what part of Europe you're talking about. Ukraine or Moldova. Sure. But Western Europe? Highly doubtful. Besides, the number of people with an independent source of income above that of the average person in a western european country is incredibly small.

[subutai]

Well, think what you want I guess. But you're talking to a guy who's done it and has a half dozen friends who have done it, so I don't think it's "Mission Impossible." But we're all entrepreneurs -- probably no easy feat for the salary man.

[Ajiaco]

Well, how did you go about it? I assume there must be some legwork beyond getting on a plane and looking for a job, but I think most of us have no idea even where to begin. Getting a visa for doing any kind of skilled work is not so easy in the US either. Are some countries in Europe easier to work in than others? What advice do you have for anyone daydreaming about this possibility?

[ManAbout]

I have looked into this as well and it is possible. I was looking into permanent residence in France and in Spain. Basically they look at your net worth and how much passive income you have. France seems to be a bit harder, as their net worth requirements can be anywhere from $250,000 to $1,000,000 depending on which consulate you apply at. For a monthly passive income they want about $1,500 or there about.

Spain is actually quite a bit easier, but again, it requires you to show a bank deposit. It's much less than France. It's about 90,000 Euros. The money has to be deposited in a bank account in Spain. The whole process can be done through an immigration lawyer who will charge you a few thousand euros to do all the work and get the papers pushed through to the right guys who will approve it.

Subutai, how have you done it? Can you post the information here if possible?

[subutai]

Just an example:

http://www.migri.fi/netcomm/content.asp?...,2706,2502

Buy a 1st floor apartment with street entrance that can double as an office. Have a bedroom in the back. Buy the apartment. Call the apartment purchase an investment into a Finland-based start-up.

Headquarter your web-based business in the apartment, which obviously should be generating income. Put a sign up on the door.

Prepare a suitably impressive business plan and proof of operations.

Voila. You are now a resident of Finland.

http://www.migri.fi/netcomm/content.asp?...,2706,2502

Every country is different but all of this is public information. Just requires creativity and dealing with countries that have very little "1st world immigration" -- so that you are not caught amongst the huddles masses of Africa/the Middle East trying to get in. Oh, and of course, sufficient capital and steady monthly income flow.

[emh]

While I appreciate ManAbout and Subutai posting specific details, I think the details only serve to highlight Houston's comment: "...difficult and expensive". I'd be surprised if more than 1-5% of the people on this board could afford those sort of dollar figures.

[subutai]

The path to success isn't a paved highway for the masses with bright flashing signs pointing the way.

[thegmanifesto]

I remember reading somewhere that if you buy a place or set up a biz in Latvia, they give you EU residency.

Sorry I don't have more info, but if you search around, I am sure you can find it.

Update: LATVIA’S UNIQUE NEW RESIDENCY PROGRAM http://www.sovereignman.com/expat/latvia...y-program/

[emh]

(02-22-2011 12:57 PM)subutai Wrote:  

The path to success isn't a paved highway for the masses with bright flashing signs pointing the way.

I take it that you concede the point!

[emh]

For those that are interested, a thread that compares Latvia, Cyprus and Malta:

http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtop...aae7fbbc69

[oldnemesis]

(02-22-2011 01:20 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

I remember reading somewhere that if you buy a place or set up a biz in Latvia, they give you EU residency.

This is true. You'll have to buy real estate worth at least 143K EUR though (or 72K EUR in some shithole). And you're getting a temporary residence permit, meaning you may travel to Shengen countries, but you cannot work there (and there is probably term restriction, you have to live in Latvia for 6 months in a year to keep your permit). No citizenship either. Montenegro deal looks much better, 200K EUR investment and you're getting citizenship, not just permit. Malta is similar to Latvia, but the weather is better and taxes lower.

Anyway, those who don't have at least $100K - which means most people here - shouldn't worry.

[subutai]

(02-22-2011 08:51 PM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

(02-22-2011 01:20 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

I remember reading somewhere that if you buy a place or set up a biz in Latvia, they give you EU residency.

This is true. You'll have to buy real estate worth at least 143K EUR though (or 72K EUR in some shithole). And you're getting a temporary residence permit, meaning you may travel to Shengen countries, but you cannot work there (and there is probably term restriction, you have to live in Latvia for 6 months in a year to keep your permit). No citizenship either. Montenegro deal looks much better, 200K EUR investment and you're getting citizenship, not just permit. Malta is similar to Latvia, but the weather is better and taxes lower.

Anyway, those who don't have at least $100K - which means most people here - shouldn't worry.

Regarding Montenegro, as far as I know, it's a 300,000 euro real estate investment PLUS 200,000 euro NON-REFUNDABLE "contribution" to the Montenegro government PLUS 20,000 euros "processing fee." Pretty steep.

[oldnemesis]

They probably changed it. Last Summer I was in Romania, and it was 200K EUR.

There are, obviously, other - much cheaper - options in Eastern Europe countries, they're just less official

[Mystik]

(02-22-2011 01:20 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

I remember reading somewhere that if you buy a place or set up a biz in Latvia, they give you EU residency.

Sorry I don't have more info, but if you search around, I am sure you can find it.

Update: LATVIA’S UNIQUE NEW RESIDENCY PROGRAM http://www.sovereignman.com/expat/latvia...y-program/

Video of the same from BBC

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12106988

[ManAbout]

I think Spain is the best option from all those presented. You don`t actually have to invest any money. You just need to deposit the 90,000 Euros in a bank account in Spain and present a bank certificate to them. After the papers are processed and you have established residency, you can withdraw the money and give it back to where ever you got it from. This takes about 3 months. One thing though is that you will be granted status as an Autonomo, which means you are an independent business. You cannot work for anybody else, but you can run your own company. This entails paying taxes and 230 Euros a month which covers social security benefits.

[oldnemesis]

(02-22-2011 12:06 PM)subutai Wrote:  

Voila. You are now a resident of Finland.

Does it mean you now need to pay Finnish taxes on all that income? How much the taxes are? I heard it is like 25+ "federal" tax and around 20% municipal tax. There is also fucking 2% church tax (wft?) This does not even include VAT which is like 23%.

Do you have also to live in Finland at least six months in a year to keep the resident status?

[rudebwoy]

I knew Asian dudes that were getting married to Polish girls in the UK. This was arranged by a lawyer who would pay the girls next to nothing, total cost around 10k GBP. This was purely a business transaction, not some russian bride scam.

A friend of mine joined the Greek Army a few years back, did two years service (camp stuff) and gained his Euro passport afterwards.

[ManAbout]

(02-23-2011 06:52 PM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

(02-22-2011 12:06 PM)subutai Wrote:  

Voila. You are now a resident of Finland.

Does it mean you now need to pay Finnish taxes on all that income? How much the taxes are? I heard it is like 25+ "federal" tax and around 20% municipal tax. There is also fucking 2% church tax (wft?) This does not even include VAT which is like 23%.

Do you have also to live in Finland at least six months in a year to keep the resident status?

I don't know about Finland specifically, but in general, Yes, paying your taxes is a requirement. Also, this is one way of ensuring your residency. As long as you continue to pay your taxes you can claim legal residency in that country.

How much tax you pay will depend on the country. In Spain for example, when I was speaking to the lawyer, he said something like, "You decide how much tax you want to pay." And then they will work backwards to calculate how much of your income you should declare. Apparently very common in Spain where even properties change hands with a declared value and an "under the table" amount given to the seller, in order to evade taxes.

[ManAbout]

(02-23-2011 09:00 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

I knew Asian dudes that were getting married to Polish girls in the UK. This was arranged by a lawyer who would pay the girls next to nothing, total cost around 10k GBP. This was purely a business transaction, not some russian bride scam.

Yes, but I wouldn't recomment this anymore. The British authorities are cracking down. I have read numerous stories about the police turning up at the actual wedding and arresting both the bride and groom.