[Nomad77]

Game is just like sales. It can be broken down into three parts: the approach, sell, and close. Some of us are better in one part but weak in another. While you can get assistance in the approach you are on your own in the sell and close. You have to be good at all three to get a lot of women. Let's break it down:

The approach is self-explanatory BUT you have to create enough attraction or curiosity in this stage for the girl to want to see you again.

The sell is the dating/comfort building/seduction part. This is the part where you sell yourself to the girl - convince her to either have sex or relationship with you.

The close is the ultimate objective: sex or relationship. It's where you ask for the sale and yes, you do have to ask for it.

If you are not progressing from one stage to the next it's because you are hitting a sticking point. Sticking points usually occur at the end of a stage. For example, you are approaching and getting numbers but can't get dates. You are approaching getting numbers and dates but can't get sex or a relationship. In either case it can be a variety of factors. You have to look at the instances is it does work and comparing them to the times it doesn't. If you are being fairly consistent then it's the type of girl. Look at the girls that are saying yes vs the ones that are saying no.

Most guys do ok on dates once they can get them. It's the approach and close that gets to them. Both require courage. I am good at approaching but my transition to dates are low. Why? Because I target high quality girls that are usually in relationships or high demand. But if I can get them to go on just one date, it's almost a done deal. I can increase my number of dates by dropping down to the 4 - 7 range or raising the age range to late twenties and above. But that's not really fun - I like the challenge more than I like dates or even sex. For me the fun is in the thrill of the chase not the kill.

Look at your results and identify your weak point. It's usually going to be in the transition from one stage to the next. Either you need to improve yourself or change your targets. Guys like Roosh are very good salesmen they just don't think of it that way.

[KC4]

I need ti work on my closing and selling. I am bit like s guy who dribbles a through a hole team and the keeper but misses thr open goal

[Nomad77]

If you are getting dates then you are doing well already. Just set small goals and work on them. For example, try to make the girl laugh one time during a day. Try go become comfortable during the day. This is important. If you are uncomfortable the girl will also be uncomfortable. Try for a kiss.

[General Mayhem]

My weak point is definitely approaches to dates. I get in my own way. Once I get to the second stage I'm golden.

[ElJefe]

weak spot here is forgetting to game her because im not paying attention to the interaction.

For instance, been seeing a real cutie a few times. She was kinda old-school, but I decided to put in several dates because she had long-term potential.

Over just a few days, her response times have gone to super-slow and to my last message. No response. That sucks. Really sucks. Being on the short end is the worst feeling I know.

[MrRoundtree]

Weak point is on first date, looking very sexual when I talk. I'm doing ok with girls that are already attracted but convince those who are not yet by my personnality or my looks, i've not had a lot of success with that.

[michelin]

Major problems:
I keep rambling without passing the ball to the girl, doing most of the talking.
I close too fast, mostly because I hate to lose much of my time with a maybe-girl and losing attraction just when I was about to close the deal.

[Amigoish]

1. I simply can't cold approach attractive girls walking down the street. Major approach anxiety.
2. I suck at night game. Drunk game doesn't work since I am very introverted.
3. I start to act beta on the most attractive fuck buddies after some bangs, even though I am fucking other girls, and then they lose interest. I still have some betaness in my overall personality.

[funkyzeit]

Closing. My logistics are shit during colder months. When it's warm you can bang everywhere, picnics, woods, stairways, pools, but even houses are more often empty because of vacations and holidays.

[KC4]

@Thanks Nomad77 I usually can't close on dates but at party's and gatherings I usually do ok. Could be the alcohol or that I'm not alone with girl. But could be that problems lie in when I'm alone or that I am always overthinking things. Cheers ,Always happy to learn

[Moma]

Are there are any top FACE 2 FACE salesmen here that are not good at road game etc?

[soup]

My weak point is that my confidence still fluctuates a lot. It's increasing steadily as I get older and get more into the game, but I haven't reached a state of ultimate consistency yet (if that's even possible).

[bodmon]

my weak point is my playing field: toronto nightgame. however it's the only choice i have until i make certain changes in my life.

[Sudden]

Weak spot is the first meet up after initial meeting or online/tinder/OKC banter. I sometimes schedule these things a few days out because of my busy schedule and then the day/night for the meet-up comes around and it just falls on one of those days where I'm off my game.

[WestIndianArchie]

Interesting post Nomad

Approach sell close?

I'd say

Market research - am I in the right scene/country, is this the kind of thing my customers are looking for? What are the niches?

Product development - do I have a good product

Beta testing - getting initial market feedback

Marketing - within my market, what is my ideal customer, how does she think, what does she feel

Advertising - how am I bringing attention to my product

Approach - stated above

Qualifying my customer - even if I get the sale, do I want to be in business with this person

Sell - discovering the customers vocal and silent needs. handling objections before they can be objected to. Getting the customer to lock in and sell themselves.

Close

After sales care - how do I handle buyers remorse? How do I sell more stuff to her? What about referrals and reviews? When our business has run its course, what's the best way to end the ongoing contract?

I'd say my own weak spots were in

Market selection - why am I at bars with ugly chicks hoping a hottie shows up?

Qualifying - am I doing enough to uncover red flags?

After sales care - am I doing enough to make sure that.all parts of the sales contract are met?

WIA

[Nomad77]

The first step in correcting any problem is identifying it. That you guys have done that is actually a great first step! Now, just create a plan to correct the problem using small steps. Try something different, see, if it works better, if it does, continue using it, if it doesn't try something else.

The read I am getting from young American girls (<25) these days is that they are just after fun and entertainment. It's not unusual to bang a girl first AND then get to know her after. If this is your target market, then being sexual and direct can work more times than not IF sex is what you are after. Your greatest currency today is your desire and attention, don't just give it away for nothing.

And there is no such thing as 100% consistency and results in my experience. You are going to have off days and nights. You can never predict an outcome with 100% certainty. At the end of the day, it's always a numbers game doesn't matter how good you are.

[unbowed]

Quitting a set. There's so much more opportunity to be had I can't waste time in a mediocre set.

Also comfort. I need to stop going out at night in the US as it's creating a 1 dimensional high-attraction interaction. I need to start upping my ramble and have flowery conversations again.

(03-10-2014 09:17 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  

The read I am getting from young American girls (<25) these days is that they are just after fun and entertainment. It's not unusual to bang a girl first AND then get to know her after. If this is your target market, then being sexual and direct can work more times than not IF sex is what you are after. Your greatest currency today is your desire and attention, don't just give it away for nothing.

It's amazing when I literally shut my entire self off, <25 American girls love me. They essentially want the party drug dealer vibe. The minute I say anything intellectual, they get into "mmhmm, that's true. well it's been nice blah blah" I end up at a bizarre crossroads with the young American girls: we lock eyes and sexually size each other up. Then as soon as either of us open our mouths, we both storm off. Maybe I should experiment with psychic game.

[Nomad77]

The best game for young American girls is to just shut your mouth and let them talk while you sexualize the situation non-verbally. Just acknowledge whatever they are saying with head nods and one word answers - like really. I have had SNL where the girl literally knew absolutely nothing about me, including my name. They don't care about you, they just care about themselves and whatever kind of fun they want to have that night.

[blueshark747]

My weak point is cold approach.
If i don't get any type of eye contact or feel of interest I can't approach.
Most of the women in my life have always approached me or showed alot of interests through eye contact or smiles.
I recall atleast 4 times walking Miami Beach where I'd pass a chick and she smiles and stares then I happen to look back and she looks back at me also, and I grab them from there. Other than that I'm not fond of approaching random women I don't know.

[Nomad77]

Well, don't feel bad this is 95% of most men weak point. And if you are getting eye contact and approaches from women then you don't need to do cold approaches. I have a good looking friend here in Miami that get all of his women that way. They will just pretty much ask him out. He doesn't need to cold approach. I on the other hand has to work hard to get dates. I rarely get eye contact from women and I can't remember the last time some woman approached me.

[Monty Brown]

Im bad at first dates
Logistics aren't the best
Need to work on holding frame
I'm not as outgoing when I'm sober.

[Nomad77]

If you are getting first dates, that's a lot better than a most guys. Just remember to follow this simple rule I strive to live by:

lead physically but follow emotionally

It means never express greater emotions than a woman BUT lead the interaction in a physical sense e.g. we are going here, we are doing this, touching, holding, kissing, etc. A lot of guys get too "happy" once they see the girl is a little interested and get carried away emotionally - lose frame.

[blueshark747]

(03-12-2014 01:35 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  

Well, don't feel bad this is 95% of most men weak point. And if you are getting eye contact and approaches from women then you don't need to do cold approaches. I have a good looking friend here in Miami that get all of his women that way. They will just pretty much ask him out. He doesn't need to cold approach. I on the other hand has to work hard to get dates. I rarely get eye contact from women and I can't remember the last time some woman approached me.

I really admire that edge you hunters have though with approaching women.
An edge I never possessed since I was always being pursued by women.

[Nomad77]

Yep, nature has a way of always balancing things. While my friend, like you, has it much easier getting women. I get higher quality women. He never gets approached by an 8+ outright. And since he has gotten so use to taking the women who approach him he doesn't really even know how to go after a woman he may really want. It's like being a woman in a way. They are limited to the men that approach them for the most part.

Guys like me on the other hand have to hunt because if we don't, we don't eat. This ability becomes more important as you age and your looks fade - especially if you are not rich or famous.

[blueshark747]

(03-12-2014 01:52 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  

Yep, nature has a way of always balancing things. While my friend, like you, has it much easier getting women. I get higher quality women. He never gets approached by an 8+ outright. And since he has gotten so use to taking the women who approach him he doesn't really even know how to go after a woman he may really want. It's like being a woman in a way. They are limited to the men that approach them for the most part.

Guys like me on the other hand have to hunt because if we don't, we don't eat. This ability becomes more important as you age and your looks fade - especially if you are not rich or famous.

Nail on the head!