[2Wycked]

Some time ago, I was fired from my job. It was New Year's Eve and I felt like shit. With nary a drop of vodka, I retired to my bed and endured a fitful and restless period of "sleep." I felt like shit that day.

Fast forward to this past Sunday. After a night of vodka, I awoke and imbibed some much needed water. I lazily logged into the forum, hoping to see some threads on general human idiocy or maybe Lindy West raped a bucket of chicken. I was sick to my stomach when I saw Roosh had been arrested for battery. I tried to snatch some more Zzzz's but I was worried sick about my friend. I felt like shit that day.



Before you think this is some bashing or whatever thread - it isn't. The forum has brought me too much value for anything like that.

The reason I bring up these two situations is that you can approach them from two distinct ways. Sure, you could judge me in the first (I fucked up) or you can judge Roosh & Tuthmosis in the second (they fucked up). Or, you could consider it the other way: the victims. I pissed off an important client in the first; R&T pissed of the clientele of the fourm.

It is a mindless, politically correct rejoinder to say that the truth meets in the middle, somewhere. That isn't necessarily true but it obfuscates what matters here: trust and credibility. All the talk over frame, alpha v. beta, etc. is irrelevant. We are a community built on mutual trust. We are necessarily skeptical of new users simply because of our approach to life. We attract a ton of haters, fakers and people with ill intent. We need know that we are interacting with real men who have good intentions to contribute to the community.

We all know that Roosh and Tuthmosis are not trolls. They aren't trying to hurt us, even though they did by proxy. What is bothersome -- to me -- is that they took that trust and their credibility for granted. I can't necessarily blame them 100% - unfortunately, we are all human, after all. Should we have been more objective? Absolutely. But when a man I greatly respect -- Tuthmosis -- tells us to listen because its serious, I suspend plausible doubt.

However, taking this the other way, I can't imagine what it would be like to curate and nurture this forum, only to have a poorly thought out false-flag operation blow up like this. Like when I hurt myself by doxxing a shitty customer, I thought I had done right by myself but only realized that I had not just hurt myself but the people around me, as they were legitimately pissed I had gotten myself fired. Can you imagine Roosh having a quiet night of sleep tonight? He has put his heart and soul into this forum.

I was very angry at first, thinking that it was real at first - then thinking we had been hacked a very bad way. I frantically deleted all my PM's with my personal information in them and made a new password.

I was angry at Roosh at first, but I softened up quite a bit as I thought about it more and he posted more on the closed thread. I am not a person to dogpile on somebody who is in pain, but I cannot imagine a world in which he isn't hurting because of this. It was a prank gone horribly wrong, but --unlike the pig's blood on Carrie -- this is completely forgivable.

Tuthmosis needs to pubically apologize, to be sure. Roosh has come to cleanse his hands in the waters of our opinions of this situation.

We all make mistakes. Every single one of us has made terrible mistakes. Every one of us.



That being said, I thought about it a bit more. It's 5 AM in my neck of the woods. I really wanted to talk to what I consider a good friend in Quintus Curtius. I dismissed that thought - he has to be at work in a few hours. Then I thought about it some more.

The only reason I even know Quintus is because of the forum/ROK. The only reason we called each other to talk about this is because we came here willing to begin with. He came to write for ROK and I came (I still don't know why I came) for reasons unknown, but the only reason I know him is because of this forum. I texted members and received texts over this past day. Hell, Ali drunk dialed me on Saturday with renotime and JohnKreese. Wouldn't have had that without the forum.

This may have been a prank gone bad, but it shouldn't be more than a blip in our history. When Beyond Borders brings his literary chops to bear and pens a history of the forum this is a chapter, but hopefully not one that is nothing but a stormy period at sea.

I felt very strongly about this issue when it happened over the course of these hours on Sunday, but it misses the value the forum has brought to myself. And you -- the reader -- of course.

Yet, what bothers me most, is what if I was Roosh? I lay down my arms almost completely to think about the originator of our forum and the leader of the manosphere must be experiencing right now. It might be a self-imposed jail of a bad prank.

For me, I wish this episode didn't happen in RVF history, but it did.

Roosh has brought great value to your life, whether you admit it or not.

Hopefully, we will all be okay

[Thomas the Rhymer]

[Espresso]

Hey guys,

I know this has become a contentious issue, and another thread about it will probably lead to similar arguments and points of view being expressed.

Perhaps we should just leave it for a couple days, and let things cool down a bit.

Just a thought.

[Sourcecode]

I knew 2wycked would eventually make a thread llike this....

[Deluge]

People are getting way too butthurt about this. It was just a prank, and a very obvious one at that (the pic of Roosh in jail gave it away). Think about how ridiculous it is to do something as drastic as leaving the RVF community permanently because your feelings got hurt over a few hours of internet trolling... This reminds me of the gay porn attack we had a while back. I got mad as hell at the time but then forgot about in a week, and so will the forum over this fiasco.

inb4 this thread gets locked

[Yeti]

I'm butthurt also but I think it's probably best to leave it for a while. Spring is coming and maybe I should go out running.

[WestCoast]

Ah dis shit is gonna blow over eventually.

The real negative is that it makes you realize some of us do spend a bit too much time here (me included) getting in arguments with trolls etc etc.

Whatevs just like life the show goes on.

[R Smoov]

Wycked.

[Monty Brown]

[/php]

[renotime]

Not a single mention of narcissism?

I'm disappointed, 2wycked.

[Hotwheels]

Speaking of Ali, he was MIA the entire day.

Maybe he's in jail.....

[el mechanico]

(03-03-2014 10:05 AM)Hotwheels Wrote:  

Speaking of Ali, he was MIA the entire day.

Maybe he's in jail.....

Or maybe a scenario that's even funnier

[worldwidetraveler]

(03-03-2014 10:09 AM)el mechanico Wrote:  

(03-03-2014 10:05 AM)Hotwheels Wrote:  

Speaking of Ali, he was MIA the entire day.

Maybe he's in jail.....

Or maybe a scenario that's even funnier

Maybe he is finishing up his PUA book... Black Out Game.

[mikado]

If MikeCF, Anonymous Bosch, thedude, etc, leave the forum
-It will be okay. I believe they have what it takes to follow great lives, provide and be provided enough value to live well their masculinity, and keep their alphaness and "swag", without the forum.

If MikeCF, Anonymous Bosch, thedude, etc, stay on the forum
-It will be okay too. They provided a lot of value here, definitely, and they would help greatly other members of the forum in their lives.

My personal take on this ( only giving my opinion, it's Roosh's forum, he does whatever he wants)

Roosh and Tuthmosis should make a significant move on the forum to show the trust they put on the other members.I don't know how, but something a bit more significant than just apologizing.

On the other hand, other people should grow a skin, and remember something: if you truly believe we are brothers, that you would go as far as calling people and putting your trust in line to help a member, then taking it on your pride to forgive him and give him a chance to redeem himself is equally challenging, and hard, but is the way to go.
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

A brother knows pardon.

[Hotwheels]

(03-03-2014 10:09 AM)el mechanico Wrote:  

(03-03-2014 10:05 AM)Hotwheels Wrote:  

Speaking of Ali, he was MIA the entire day.

Maybe he's in jail.....

Or maybe a scenario that's even funnier

Broke his other ankle?

Someone cut his hair while passed out?

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

(03-03-2014 10:01 AM)renotime Wrote:  

Not a single mention of narcissism?

I'm disappointed, 2wycked.

Hahahahahahaha!

2wycked bro, you know I enjoy your posts, but this narcissism running gag is just too funny... I can't hold it in anymore...





As for this issue, I second what mikado said. Well put.

[Sourcecode]

[Avarence]

I was away for a few days. Just read through all of the threads.



Had I been on the forum while the trolling/drama had ensued, I may have actually gotten pissed about it... but reading it now I find it pretty funny. Community is important, but I think people are a little too invested if they're willing to leave over something like this.

Take a few days off and start contributing again.

[renotime]

(03-03-2014 09:32 AM)Rosca Wrote:  

Wycked.

I disagree.

[Sourcecode]

yes Reno...we need to bring in...

to sort this out

[renotime]

(03-03-2014 11:16 AM)Sourcecode Wrote:  

yes Reno...we need to bring in...

to sort this out

I found a picture of source congratulating himself for being too smart to fall for the trick.

[Snowplow]

^lmao feel team 6

Now that I'm caught up in the fiasco, I've learned some shit. I've spent a lot of time reading this forum, even though I'm still fairly new to it. My first realtime troll moments were the gay troll/kamikaze troll.

But this weekend I was too busy doing my thing, not worrying about stuff online. Reading through all the posts it was interesting to watch how people handled situations. I really do love this forum as I'm sure many members here do, but its water under the bridge. It shows that even though stuff happens, we probably have one of the strongest sense of community via the internet. For what its worth, victim groups could only be so lucky to have as much info and hard work put into theirs as we do ours. If people decide to leave it will be a shame, but life moves on.

We are a strong group overall, now let's take our own advice: evaluate, adapt, overcome.

[MVG]

The prank was a good laugh, classic laddish behaviour for me. Although I thought the photos were a tactical error, increased likelihood of it being fake. Should have kept it going but made it more tongue in cheek, maybe pictures of you handcuffed, or having beard shaved to teach you an old fashioned polish lesson. Roosh treated like that guy with the long hair who loses all his power when its cut off.

The reaction to it has been even funnier, can't believe how guys can get wound up over something so trivial. If you reacted like that to a joke/prank up my local pub people would lose respect for you. They'd just think your a guy who can't take a joke and probably steer clear in future, same way they avoid taking the piss out of women or softies. You know they won't like it so you don't bother. But when one of the "lads" or your "gang" reacts like that it leaves a bad taste in the mouth. Makes you think you got to soften yourself up to make sure nobodys "feelings" are hurt. No fun at all then,

[Duke Castile]

Quote:

Tuthmosis
I would really appreciate it if you guys would stop speculating about the veracity of the goddamn picture or the color of his t-shirt or the expression on his face and realize that this is a serious situation.

Not everything is your personal soap opera.

New details:
The Polish equivalent of bail is being withheld from Roosh
He's either appeared or is about to appear before a magistrate to receive formal charges (how this works was unclear from the message)
It looks like "he's going to be in there for a while"

Holy shit.

I know a lot of you have questions about the forum and its on-going administration. Stay tuned for a formal announcement from me about this.

This girl I met over two months ago that I've been wanting to see finally agreed to meet the night before last.

I showed up and she was looking stunning. We had to meet at her aunt's house and she brought out a bottle of vino tinto from California.

2 bottles later I am trying to fit my dick inside her on her aunt's couch and failing.

She was very nervous and couldn't leave but it was one of the sexiest encounters I've had in recent memory.

Last night she came straight over to my place around the time Roosh ended the hoax.

We proceeded to have the best sex of my trip so far.

It figures since I am leaving later today.

I think I may fly her out to see me someplace.

Anyway, it helped clear my head.

Some thoughts after a break from last night:

Tuthmosis has repeatedly written viral articles because he knows which buttons to push with feminists.

Here it's obvious he knew which buttons to push with us as well.

Things that we as men come here for; camaraderie, loyalty, reason, and taking action when an ally is in trouble and needs a hand.

There's a reason Tuthmosis is a moderator that is so adept at sniffing out trolls.

It's because he's a troll himself.

Just like FBI profilers are thought to be very close to serial killers.

I remember when he first joined the forum. He was really cool and very engaging. It was obvious he wanted to be a part of the community and proceeded to drop some of the funniest and informative threads I've read here.

His typical day post had me in stitches.

Fast forward a couple years and as moderator, I came to completely trust Tuthmosis as a fair individual who was consistent and while I didn't always like the bans that happened, I often deferred to his good judgement and life went on (of course, wtf else would happen)

I think that probably sums up a lot of guys' opinion.

One of the reasons we come here, is that we hold ourselves to a higher standard.

We consider ourselves masculine, above feminine bullshit, and in that vein we are pursuing self improvement in virtually every area of our lives.

Yesterday/Last Night really hit home for me.

Midnite special blows off being in jail as no big deal but for me, when I was locked up, it was a fucking nightmare.

I was in a tiny room with no window and when that door closed I realized "I cannot leave this place".

It's scary when all of a sudden the freedom you took for granted is snatched away from you and your whole life is reduced to 8x8 feet.

There is no real difference between the man I am in this forum and the man I am in the real world except I don't usually go by Fisto (although traveling with 20Nation and THC, I have been)

Tuthmosis tapped into the virtues we have as men, the things that separate us from dumb bitches, and exploited it.

Roosh had the idea apparently but Tuthmosis knew what to say.

Guys like myself, TheDude3737, MikeCF, A. Bosche, MaleDefined, and many others understand what coming to your brother's aid when he needs you means and that is why this particular prank is so.....fucking fucked.

Our virtues were used against us and in a way that you would expect from our enemy.

I felt as though we were all no better than a bunch of goddamn feminist bitches that gossip about each other and pray for each other's downfall.

I'm sure that characterizes and explains the departure of some members, after all, we are supposed to be better than that.

I'm sure of it because this haven of no bullshit was suddenly filled with it.

We all learned our lessons yesterday, unfortunately, this time around we are weaker for it.

I am however positive that both Roosh and Tuthmosis have realized something of great importance, your character is not just a collection of your past laurels, it is the person you are in the present. As such, your character needs constant vigilance .

Personally, I am not crazy about having been used as a useful idiot to legitimize the scheme.

Tuthmosis clearly saw that I was concerned. He could have messaged me, as he did others but because I was furthering his agenda, he didn't.

I believe there was no malicious intent, I think this was a poorly thought out prank that went too far.

What really pisses me off is all these losers that hate on us celebrating how quickly we can be fractured, and from the top.

This cannot happen again.

Bottom line as other's have noted, business as usual is the best policy.

[MidniteSpecial]

People forget roosh shows his fucking face. People know his government name. These 'hardos' jumping ship and getting butt hurt. No one even knows who they are. These guys are scared to show their face in the manosphere but all of the sudden hold the holy grail when it comes to being 'right'. And as cool as MikeCF was since hearing his podcasts his voice does sound very feminine. Wasn't what I thought he would sound like. Not trying to hate. The guy is cool as hell just making an observation on tone and voice.