[Pilgrim37]

Me thinks the Rooshter will put a mightily argued case against the winner!!
They obviously didn't include men's sexual satisfaction in the process.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/...06336.html

[rhr]

Scam. Notice how they do everything OUTSIDE of actually going into the streets and asking 100 people how happy they are! If you did that, you'd get VERY different results:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/07...26667.html

[gadabout]

I definitely felt Denmark was more jolly than EE or Balkans.

[Vicious]

Without even clicking the link I know it's Denmark. It's been established in a number of high profile reports.

I don't see how this figure and Roosh's conclusions about the country with regard to game are mutually exclusive.

[Traveler86]

How could someone not be happy in denmark ? Its a pretty cool and laid back country full of real hot blonde girls ( unlike sweden where women are average at best )

[JayJuanGee]

(09-11-2013 03:02 PM)rhr Wrote:  

Scam. Notice how they do everything OUTSIDE of actually going into the streets and asking 100 people how happy they are! If you did that, you'd get VERY different results:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/07...26667.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_Planet_Index

Probably, the above Wikipedia link's description of happiness is more reflective of accurate measures of happiness than either of the other links to the Independent or the Huffington Post?
Generally, it appears that westernized countries are not really amongst the happiest of the world's peoples. Instead places that are less connected with world politics and industrialization, seem to be more happy... Maybe places that are not too poor and not too rich are the most happy....? Nonetheless, it seems that being in a poor country is more likely to bring happiness than being in a rich country? The map seems to show that less industrialized countries may be happier gives more of an incentive to engage in some world travel to see what is happening in those places, and maybe even plan to live in some of those places? Largely, the 2012 list tends to show less industrialized countries at the top (which can be seen by the ecological footprint number). USA is not on the list of top 50 because it is ranked around 140.

Code:

Code:

Rank    Country    
HPI    Experienced well-being    Life expectancy    Ecological footprint

1      Costa Rica
64.0    7.3    79.3    2.5
2      Vietnam
60.4    5.8    75.2    1.4
3      Colombia
59.8    6.4    73.7    1.8
4      Belize
59.3    6.5    76.1    2.1
5      El Salvador
58.9    6.7    72.2    2.0
6      Jamaica
58.5    6.2    73.1    1.7
7      Panama
57.8    7.3    76.1    3.0
8      Nicaragua
57.1    5.7    74.0    1.6
9      Venezuela
56.9    7.5    74.4    3.0
10      Guatemala
56.9    6.3    71.2    1.8
11      Bangladesh
56.3    5.0    68.9    0.7
12      Cuba
56.2    5.4    79.1    1.9
13      Honduras
56.0    5.9    73.1    1.7
14      Indonesia
55.5    5.5    69.4    1.1
15      Israel
55.2    7.4    81.6    4.0
16      Pakistan
54.1    5.3    65.4    0.8
17      Argentina
54.1    6.4    75.9    2.7
18      Albania
54.1    5.3    76.9    1.8
19      Chile
53.9    6.6    79.1    3.2
20      Thailand
53.5    6.2    74.1    2.4
21      Mexico
52.9    6.8    77.0    3.3
22      Brazil
52.9    6.8    75.2    2.9
23      Ecuador
52.5    5.8    75.6    2.4
24      Philippines
52.4    4.9    68.7    1.0
25      Peru
52.4    5.6    74.0    2.0
26      Algeria
52.2    5.2    73.1    1.6
27      Jordan
51.7    5.7    73.4    2.1
28      New Zealand
51.6    7.2    80.7    4.3
29      Norway
51.4    7.6    81.1    4.8
30      Palestine
51.2    4.8    72.8    1.4
31      Guyana
51.2    6.0    69.9    2.1
32      India
50.9    5.0    65.4    0.9
33      Dominican Republic
50.7    4.7    73.4    1.4
34       Switzerland
50.3    7.5    82.3    5.0
35      Sri Lanka
49.4    4.2    74.9    1.2
36      Iraq
49.2    5.0    69.0    1.4
37      Laos
49.1    5.0    67.5    1.3
38      Kyrgyzstan
49.1    5.0    67.7    1.3
39      Tunisia
48.3    4.7    74.5    1.8
40      Moldova
48.0    5.6    69.3    2.1
41      United Kingdom
47.9    7.0    80.2    4.7
42      Morocco
47.9    4.4    72.2    1.3
43      Tajikistan
47.8    4.4    67.5    0.9
44      Turkey
47.6    5.5    74.0    2.6
45      Japan
47.5    6.1    83.4    4.2
46      Germany
47.2    6.7    80.4    4.6
47      Syria
47.1    4.1    75.9    1.5
48      Austria
47.1    7.3    80.9    5.3
49      Madagascar
46.8    4.6    66.7    1.2
50      France
46.5    6.8    81.5    4.9

My recent sense of the state of happiness of people is that some work and purpose brings happiness, but in the USA, for example, as a society (and individuals within), we are way overworked.. and under appreciated by the man when we do work – because the well-to-do, who control the capital and largely the jobs, have a tendency to exploit the workers, whether white or blue collar.

Now, on the other hand, if we, as workers, are able to either build up a nest egg or a retirement package or a passive income stream, then those resources can be used to travel to other places in the world or live in other places – even though that kind of a plan may seem a little hypocritical to some extent.. but to have a cash-flow from a first world country can go a long way in a second or third world country.
Then the next question becomes whether that 1st world cash flow that you import into another country is gonna bring happiness? To find out is more reason to travel, in my humble opinion… if we can break from the job and the man, which is not a luxury for many because we can easily get tied down.

[Que enspastic]

What about red pill guys in these developing happy nations?

Are they happy?

Hopefully yes, because they won't have the funds to set up shop in any other country like those of us fortunate enough to have citizenship and jobs in 1st world countries.

It's better to start out 1st world and move to developing world with funds than to start and finish in developing world as a poor man.

[Sailor]

Switzerland totally does not surprise me

[Cattle Rustler]

America, most Americans are happy with the crap they watch and eat. America is the safest country in the world and every other country is a socialist or 3rd world hell hole. No bathrooms in Belize? Someone call the Marines!

Give an American a home, a home equity line, fast food, road to everywhere and mass media (hi Fox) and....he'll be a happy american alright.

[JayJuanGee]

(09-13-2013 01:02 PM)Cattle Rustler Wrote:  

America, most Americans are happy with the crap they watch and eat. America is the safest country in the world and every other country is a socialist or 3rd world hell hole. No bathrooms in Belize? Someone call the Marines!

Give an American a home, a home equity line, fast food, road to everywhere and mass media (hi Fox) and....he'll be a happy american alright.

@CR: I am not sure if you are writing tongue in cheek (pen in cheek);however, i would take with a grain of salt, any claims that the USA is amongst the safest places on the planet, especially with proliferation of guns and the tendency of Americans to be fairly volatile with greediness or comparing oneself with the Jones. I'm not sure whether the violence and greed and comparisons come from television or capitalism or the bad economy (that pits poor against one another fighting for crumbs); however, Americans frequently seem to go on killing sprees and random acts of violence such as serial killings.

This level of self-righteous intense violence does not seem to take place with as much frequency in other countries (or maybe it does not get as much press?).... ... Perceptions of well-being and safety would certainly go towards of whether one feels happiness, as well.

[Cattle Rustler]

(09-13-2013 03:31 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  

@CR: I am not sure if you are writing tongue in cheek (pen in cheek);however, i would take with a grain of salt, any claims that the USA is amongst the safest places on the planet, especially with proliferation of guns and the tendency of Americans to be fairly volatile with greediness or comparing oneself with the Jones. I'm not sure whether the violence and greed and comparisons come from television or capitalism or the bad economy (that pits poor against one another fighting for crumbs); however, Americans frequently seem to go on killing sprees and random acts of violence such as serial killings.

This level of self-righteous intense violence does not seem to take place with as much frequency in other countries (or maybe it does not get as much press?).... ... Perceptions of well-being and safety would certainly go towards of whether one feels happiness, as well.

Although what I wrote is not what I believe in, it's often what I hear in Texas say. People (Texans) here believe America ( Texas ) is the best place on earth, Europe is a socialist hell hole, and Latin America is a place where you will get robbed and raped as soon as you walk out of your door. We're blessed with TV programming to keep us entertained and food to not be hungry. Give most Americans a resort hotel and they'll be happy, god forbid they interact with the locals.

Stuff I've heard:
At the airport (DFW): "OMG, there were no clean bathrooms in Belize. I'm so glad we left that third world dump."

When people find out about my travels "Why would you go to Mexico? You will get killed?" or "What's the point of going to nice places in Mexico? You can go to nice places in America".

[JayJuanGee]

(09-13-2013 03:42 PM)Cattle Rustler Wrote:  

Although what I wrote is not what I believe in, it's often what I hear in Texas say. People (Texans) here believe America ( Texas ) is the best place on earth, Europe is a socialist hell hole, and Latin America is a place where you will get robbed and raped as soon as you walk out of your door.

I do understand various sentiments of American exceptionalism and that many people in the USA have distorted visions of the world, and you seem to be agreeing with me that those people are living in a sort of fantasy land.

I am not necessarily going to judge other people's choices b/c to each his own, in terms of choosing how to live and how to view the world; however, sometimes I am bothered by, people with distorted visions who are propagating false views of the world onto others and affecting public policy, legislation and/or the ways that Americans interact and are received and perceived by others in the world.

To the extent that some of the RVF members are world travellers, we likely need to keep our fingers on the pulse of such world views (whether held by Americans or others) b/c worldviews can also affect how we are received and perceived in other parts of the world (or dangerous situations that we may get ourselves into b/c of perceptions).

[Jokke]

none of the top 5 countries suprise me they have been there for years. Just shows that socialism is the way to go.

[JayJuanGee]

(09-13-2013 05:34 PM)Jokke Wrote:  

Just shows that socialism is the way to go.

I don't believe anyone is concluding that socialism is the way to go or necessarily the way to happiness. Maybe instead a form of responsible capitalism, though of course opinions may vary on this point.

Surely, socialism is a loaded concept, especially in USA. People will lash out at people to call them socialists and/or communists and to suggest that is a negative thing to be thinking in such a way about distribution of wealth and especially taxes.

I think ultimately, a proposition that I was making in my previous posts is connected to many negative aspects to capitalism and greed in the united states that likely carries with it a certain level of unhappiness.


I was also thinking about ideas that I had remembered from a book that i read several years ago, related to "Crime and the American Dream," in which a thesis of the book is that Americans pursue wealth to such an extent that it alienates them from one another and it also causes them to commit crimes in the pursuit of money - and I suppose with that I am also suggesting that these dynamics of America, also, cause unhappiness.

A link to the first chapter of a recent edition of "Crime and the American Dream" will give you some ideas about the thesis of the book, which i believe is quite telling (and maybe even a bit depressing) about underlying motivations in America.

http://www.cengagebrain.com.au/content/9...314082.pdf

I would not think that it is off topic of this thread to suggest that unhappiness may be caused, in part, by maniacal (or cultural) pursuit of material wealth, especially in circumstances when a lot of people may get shafted b/c of others pursuit of material wealth - but at the same time, we idolize people who become rich, whether by hook or by crook.... and possibly, we become more unhappy b/c of these activities around us..

[LeBeau]

(09-13-2013 05:34 PM)Jokke Wrote:  

none of the top 5 countries suprise me they have been there for years. Just shows that socialism is the way to go.

[Que enspastic]

What he means is "mixed capitalism" which is what Scandinavian countries represent. They allow capitalism to run (home to some very strong international companies) but curb it's unsavoury results on society through redistributive taxation.

There's no such thing as "pure capitalism".

[RexImperator]

I'm not sure how useful the terms socialist and capalist are anymore in these types of discussions...

It's clear that Europe and Scandinavia in particular have much stronger social welfare policies than in the US but we are all mixed economies.

As someone living in the US, what's more disconcerting to me is when I see studies that show economic mobility is declining here relative to some of these more "left-wing" regulated economies.

[Que enspastic]

The US is far too ideological in its political debates. They act as though "left-wing" or "right-wing" are intrinsically bad without any consideration of what works, or that "left-wing" and "right-wing" are increasingly meaningless and non-sensical terms in today's modern economy.

[Jokke]

Well what i mean is that the American "model" only works if someone Looses and someone wins. And the ones who wins will win more.
Isnt it better if the ones who earn more tax more? so any child get close to the same opportunitys as the children born in a rich family? And a guy with cancer who earns 100k USD get the same care as a person that earns 40k ?

[RexImperator]

(09-14-2013 08:59 AM)Que enspastic Wrote:  

The US is far too ideological in its political debates. They act as though "left-wing" or "right-wing" are intrinsically bad without any consideration of what works, or that "left-wing" and "right-wing" are increasingly meaningless and non-sensical terms in today's modern economy.

I agree - I think I'm fairly pragmatic about politics as opposed to ideological. That being said, economics as a social science was originally rooted in moral philosophy so they're inextricably linked. Which begs a deeper question- the economic theories which we design policies and measure "success" by may be based on flawed assumptions or gross simplifications of human nature. It is worth considering how in the "developed" world we're generally more prosperous than ever and yet by measures of physical health and mental health we're declining. And every place that "westernizes" or "globalizes" and emulates us goes down this same path (increased rates of obesity, heart disease, depression, etc...)

[JayJuanGee]

(09-14-2013 08:39 AM)RexImperator Wrote:  

As someone living in the US, what's more disconcerting to me is when I see studies that show economic mobility is declining here relative to some of these more "left-wing" regulated economies.

There are certain myths in American propaganda that in order to have social mobility (or maybe better labelled economic mobility as you suggest Rex), you need to have economic freedom and lack of regulations.

As has been suggested in this thread there exists countries with mixed levels of regulation and these countries are also mixed in the kinds of industries and conduct that they regulate - whether they are providing social benefits, such as health care, or keeping companies in check regarding their exploitation of resources (such as labor and the environment). Probably, additionally, as an example, if there is some kind of problem, such as a bank crisis, who bears the burden, can cause perceptions of injustice, which also leads to perceptions of unhappiness, depending on the depth and frequencies of such injustices.

[tiggaling]

Danish people don't seem happy to me, more like smugly content and self satisfied.

In reality, in countries like Togo and Benin, on the ground people are probably happier than in these countries like Switzerland.