[slubu]

^^ It was in Kiev. Left is my pseudo-gf while I was there, right is her friend.

[WestCoast]

Slubu my only question for ya is what city is there stuff to do on a daily basis?

Ex: in a place like LA/SF/NYC there is stuff to do daily. Versus say places in Colombia where all they got it basically a mall.

[slubu]

(09-05-2013 06:57 PM)WestCoast Wrote:  

Slubu my only question for ya is what city is there stuff to do on a daily basis?

Ex: in a place like LA/SF/NYC there is stuff to do daily. Versus say places in Colombia where all they got it basically a mall.

Probably Moscow first, then either Budapest or Kiev. Moscow is a huge city with tons to do during the day. Gorky park is the best park I've ever been to. You can spend days there and still not do everything. Malls a plenty of course, lots of sights to see.

Kiev has a lot too, and Budapest is a historical type place. I would not recommend Novo or Tomsk or Vienna.

Also keep in mind I barely went out during the days due to work and/or hangovers, so my exploration was limited.

[Menace]

(09-05-2013 06:57 PM)WestCoast Wrote:  

Slubu my only question for ya is what city is there stuff to do on a daily basis?

Ex: in a place like LA/SF/NYC there is stuff to do daily. Versus say places in Colombia where all they got it basically a mall.

I went some place different almost every single day (tourist related). Various monuments, parks, museums, etc. Of course you will run out of places to go to in a couple of weeks, and then you can find other typical city-related activities. However, your enjoyment of those activities may be limited by your ability to understand Russian.

(edited to remove certain info)

[Hencredible Casanova]

Slubu - This is the greatest data sheet I've ever read. Period. Very inspiring. I was going to rep you but I already did long ago for a Buenos Aires sheet you made. You've been writing good sheets for a long time. I remember your NYC one was very accurate. This sheet features some new innovations which I hope to see more of in the future. The number stats are fun to read and more efficient than long form narratives. I don't think I could personally keep a mental note of all of those variables because I'd get overwhelmed (I approach anything that passes the boner test) but the fact you did keep track does help gauge how these different cities compare. Great value.

One question, and I hate to bring up race since mileage varies from person to person regardless, but I noticed in one your replies that you said Kiev is the most racist place you've been to. How so? Any examples? As a black guy I wonder if there's even a point to go to places like Russia and deep EE countries since they are sketchy in general, let alone folks who stand out.

[coopers317]

(09-05-2013 08:59 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

One question, and I hate to bring up race since mileage varies from person to person regardless, but I noticed in one your replies that you said Kiev is the most racist place you've been to. How so? Any examples? As a black guy I wonder if there's even a point to go to places like Russia and deep EE countries since they are sketchy in general, let alone folks who stand out.

This is precisely the question I'd like an answer to, too. I have searched for answers on this and they have always been very mixed. I have my own theory about what is happening vs what is being perceived on the ground, with all views that have been presented being valid depending on your perspective. I am looking forward to testing/seeing this at ground zero.

I will go ahead and say that I have pipelined heavily, if only to compensate for what I have heard from on the ground reports here in the forum and because in general I like to hit the ground running. I initially planned on only spending a couple of days in Ukraine and then heading to the more friendlier venue of Croatia. Ultimately, I've decided to go ahead and spend the entire balance of my time in Ukraine just to give it a more accurate assessment...so in essence taking one for the team, Let me be clear, I have no doubt in my mind that there is a racism aspect to this. There are just too many reports that say otherwise. But...there are certain other things that I have concluded so far to take into consideration I think:

1) Most of the comments about the racism in EE has come from guys who are not a persons of color. While they may see one angle of this, there is no way they can be an accurate gauge of the eye-fu**ing and other shenanigans being done that probably escapes their notice and they have no clue about. Also, most of the places where this type of racism or the "face-control" thing at clubs is being done, is being done by males/male bouncers, not females.

2) In my own pipelining efforts, I would say I have had, at the very least , a 35 percent positive response rate, more than any other part of the world I have pipelined...and yes, I am pretty good about sniffing out the scammers. At present, if only half don't flake, I'll still be pretty much booked. Of the remaining percentage (those who said no), at least half of those are quasi secretly looking up and checking out my profile at least daily, even though initially rejecting any overtures on my part...imo revealing a curiosity that betrays the initial response. I'm not sure if this is being done purposefully, or if they really don't know that I can see that they've viewed me. Me thinks they maybe saying one thing...but harboring something inside just a little bit different.

3) I have had very candid conversations with people I know personally who have lived in EE and are saying that yes, there may be some knuckleheads around, but the experience of being a black westerner, even now, will be far more of an exotic thing than a racism thing...especially with the females, and in the type of venues they know I seek out.

Like I said, I have no proof or anecdotal evidence of any of this so far...but hopefully I will soon be able to give my view of what to expect at ground zero.

[WanderingSoul]

(09-05-2013 08:59 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

Slubu - This is the greatest data sheet I've ever read. Period. Very inspiring. I was going to rep you but I already did long ago for a Buenos Aires sheet you made. You've been writing good sheets for a long time. I remember your NYC one was very accurate. This sheet features some new innovations which I hope to see more of in the future. The number stats are fun to read and more efficient than long form narratives. I don't think I could personally keep a mental note of all of those variables because I'd get overwhelmed (I approach anything that passes the boner test) but the fact you did keep track does help gauge how these different cities compare. Great value.

One question, and I hate to bring up race since mileage varies from person to person regardless, but I noticed in one your replies that you said Kiev is the most racist place you've been to. How so? Any examples? As a black guy I wonder if there's even a point to go to places like Russia and deep EE countries since they are sketchy in general, let alone folks who stand out.

I was looking for a video I saw about Russian (think it was Russian) girls and some black hip hop artists that live there. I couldn't find it, but found this. Probably has some other good videos you guys might like.

[Akula]

(09-05-2013 07:23 PM)slubu Wrote:  

(09-05-2013 06:57 PM)WestCoast Wrote:  

Slubu my only question for ya is what city is there stuff to do on a daily basis?

Ex: in a place like LA/SF/NYC there is stuff to do daily. Versus say places in Colombia where all they got it basically a mall.

Gorky park is the best park I've ever been to. You can spend days there and still not do everything. Malls a plenty of course, lots of sights to see.

Gorky Park has really stepped it up the past two years. A few years ago it was a bit seedier and more of a cheap amusement park with rollercoasters and other 'rides'. Then a year or so ago they decided to really spruce it up and make it a place for families and everyone. This summer was great as Slubu said, so much to do, as they have different sections where there are nice restaurants (e.g. French, Italian, seafood, coffee houses, etc.), there's a skating park, bike park, beach volleyball courts, basketball, a couple nice music venues, bocce ball, ping pong, etc. The riverwalk / rollerblade area is quite nice too.

But even in the winter it's a fantastic place, as they set up this HUGE skating rink that is just massive and that has 'ice streets' coming off of it all over the park where you can skate around - sort of like a little mini-town with restaurants and coffe shops all along the way. You can also walk around the rinks and 'ice roads' too and watch. Sort of a winter wonderland really. Can't wait for them to put it up again.

In the winter the malls like Evrapaesky and Red Square mall are pretty great places to go during the day as they are packed with people escaping the cold. And there are tons of museums here too (including the Garage modern art center in Gorky Park).

BTW, the weather in Moscow since Slubu left has been God-awful. It's 8 C here today and windy/chilly and rainy - almost feels like winter. Went to Gypsy last night for a drink and there were about 20 people there mostly inside.

[Hencredible Casanova]

(09-06-2013 01:38 AM)coopers317 Wrote:  

(09-05-2013 08:59 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

One question, and I hate to bring up race since mileage varies from person to person regardless, but I noticed in one your replies that you said Kiev is the most racist place you've been to. How so? Any examples? As a black guy I wonder if there's even a point to go to places like Russia and deep EE countries since they are sketchy in general, let alone folks who stand out.

This is precisely the question I'd like an answer to, too. I have searched for answers on this and they have always been very mixed. I have my own theory about what is happening vs what is being perceived on the ground, with all views that have been presented being valid depending on your perspective. I am looking forward to testing/seeing this at ground zero.

I will go ahead and say that I have pipelined heavily, if only to compensate for what I have heard from on the ground reports here in the forum and because in general I like to hit the ground running. I initially planned on only spending a couple of days in Ukraine and then heading to the more friendlier venue of Croatia. Ultimately, I've decided to go ahead and spend the entire balance of my time in Ukraine just to give it a more accurate assessment...so in essence taking one for the team, Let me be clear, I have no doubt in my mind that there is a racism aspect to this. There are just too many reports that say otherwise. But...there are certain other things that I have concluded so far to take into consideration I think:

1) Most of the comments about the racism in EE has come from guys who are not a persons of color. While they may see one angle of this, there is no way they can be an accurate gauge of the eye-fu**ing and other shenanigans being done that probably escapes their notice and they have no clue about. Also, most of the places where this type of racism or the "face-control" thing at clubs is being done, is being done by males/male bouncers, not females.

2) In my own pipelining efforts, I would say I have had, at the very least , a 35 percent positive response rate, more than any other part of the world I have pipelined...and yes, I am pretty good about sniffing out the scammers. At present, if only half don't flake, I'll still be pretty much booked. Of the remaining percentage (those who said no), at least half of those are quasi secretly looking up and checking out my profile at least daily, even though initially rejecting any overtures on my part...imo revealing a curiosity that betrays the initial response. I'm not sure if this is being done purposefully, or if they really don't know that I can see that they've viewed me. Me thinks they maybe saying one thing...but harboring something inside just a little bit different.

3) I have had very candid conversations with people I know personally who have lived in EE and are saying that yes, there may be some knuckleheads around, but the experience of being a black westerner, even now, will be far more of an exotic thing than a racism thing...especially with the females, and in the type of venues they know I seek out.

Like I said, I have no proof or anecdotal evidence of any of this so far...but hopefully I will soon be able to give my view of what to expect at ground zero.

Very good points. I met a girl from Kiev in DC and she was saying it's straight, or should be, for people of color. I also have a black friend who lived there but me and him are so different personality and looks wise that his advice isn't really helpful. I also have a friend I met traveling who's half Nigerian/half Russian (his Nigerian dad was a med student in Russia and met his mom there). He said Moscow was great but he speaks fluent Russian which helps immensely. Guess I'll just have to go and take the risk at some point. Pipelining to gauge interest is actually a good idea in this context. What sites do you use?

Russia's greatest poet and the founder of its modern literature, Alexander Pushkin, is considered a mulatto because his great-grandfather was from Eritrea. I might say I'm a relative of his

Wish I could speak Russian.

[Chaos]

(09-05-2013 08:59 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

One question, and I hate to bring up race since mileage varies from person to person regardless, but I noticed in one your replies that you said Kiev is the most racist place you've been to. How so? Any examples? As a black guy I wonder if there's even a point to go to places like Russia and deep EE countries since they are sketchy in general, let alone folks who stand out.

I've been all over Russia the last five months and I would say the racism do exist, but only to a certain point. When Russian people talk about " Black people" they refer to all people that have looks like Turks and Indians and darker. African people they usually call to "Negers".

But I don't see that Russians are bigger rascist then any European countries. The biggest racist issue and the most targeted group is by far Central Asians from Tajikistan and Uzbekistan etc.. and also people from the Caucasus.

I would say that Russians in general has a negative opinion about these group of people, because "they are coming to Russia and taking our jobs". You these people are working with more lower paid jobs, especially you these central Asians around construction sites.

But I wouldn't say that Black and Middle eastern looking guys has nothing fear. Not more than you have to do in Europe as long as you are using common sense.
Bigger cities in Russia are quite multiethnical, you can see slavic, light skinned and dark skinned asians, Indians, Blacks and also Latinos.

[Akula]

(09-06-2013 06:08 AM)Chaos Wrote:  

(09-05-2013 08:59 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

One question, and I hate to bring up race since mileage varies from person to person regardless, but I noticed in one your replies that you said Kiev is the most racist place you've been to. How so? Any examples? As a black guy I wonder if there's even a point to go to places like Russia and deep EE countries since they are sketchy in general, let alone folks who stand out.

I've been all over Russia the last five months and I would say the racism do exist, but only to a certain point. When Russian people talk about " Black people" they refer to all people that have looks like Turks and Indians and darker. African people they usually call to "Negers".

But I don't see that Russians are bigger rascist then any European countries. The biggest racist issue and the most targeted group is by far Central Asians from Tajikistan and Uzbekistan etc.. and also people from the Caucasus.

I would say that Russians in general has a negative opinion about these group of people, because "they are coming to Russia and taking our jobs". You these people are working with more lower paid jobs, especially you these central Asians around construction sites.

But I wouldn't say that Black and Middle eastern looking guys has nothing fear. Not more than you have to do in Europe as long as you are using common sense.
Bigger cities in Russia are quite multiethnical, you can see slavic, light skinned and dark skinned asians, Indians, Blacks and also Latinos.

Well, one thing I'd point out is that pretty much all the people you mention above are pretty racist themselves quite frankly - particulary the Central Asians and the Caucasians. U see this from a business context even many times on deals here. And they are all mostly from 'warrior cultures' and generally people you do not want to f*ck with at all - e.g. the Chechens and Dagestanis all have knives typically and know how to use them. So it goes both ways. And these recent immigrants are not just 'taking Russian jobs' but also harassing Russian women on the street, in the metro etc. many times with their boyfriends in tow. I see it and hear about it from women I date and guys I know here all day long. From simple stuff like trying to cop a feel on the metro to asking them if they are whores and 'how much' to plain old pimping (many pimps are from the Caucuses).

[Akula]

(09-05-2013 05:08 PM)slubu Wrote:  

(09-05-2013 11:42 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

One more question: do you think that St Petersburg would be a good middle ground between Moscow and the provinces, where the prices are cheaper but the quality is still high?

It has a more relaxed feel to it, maybe like SF and Moscow is NYC. Wish I could offer you more but that's all I got.

Funny I had the exact same thought about Peter versus Moscow when I was up there a couple months ago. St. Pete is definitely an artsier, more underground and more beautiful city whereas Moscow is a bit of the big ugly capital and business center. Having lived in NYC for over 10 years there's also a 'big city vibe' in Moscow that's somewhat similar to NYC in that there are always people buzzing about near the center and walking about even later on at night. So it is kinda a "NYC versus SF" sort of thing in a Russian context.

I think St. Petersburg would potentially be a good 'middle ground' but winters there are brutal I hear (it's farther north and darker, and a deeper more wet/humid cold, even if technically the temperatures aren't that different on average) and the women in Moscow on the whole are just a little better looking and there's more of them, but that said there are plenty of very attractive girls in Peter. Peter is also cheaper than Moscow, by 1/3 to 1/2 for many things.

[Hencredible Casanova]

Yeah. I don't really care about people having racist thoughts. Many places I've been have a lot of people like that. What I'm saying though is do I have to pull out the Bruce Lee moves? Big difference between what someone thinks and how someone acts on those thoughts. I think even G said that he had to brawl with some guys in Latvia. How likely is it that I will have to throw down with some Russians?

My co-worker is Russian Jewish-American and has only bad things to say about the place because of the stories from his dad's experience growing up there and getting his shit beaten in for being a Jew, especially while in the military. He said Russians are racist as f*ck.

[Akula]

(09-06-2013 07:27 AM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

Yeah. I don't really care about people having racist thoughts. Many places I've been have a lot of people like that. What I'm saying though is do I have to pull out the Bruce Lee moves? Big difference between what someone thinks and how someone acts on those thoughts. I think even G said that he had to brawl with some guys in Latvia. How likely is it that I will have to throw down with some Russians?

My co-worker is Russian Jewish-American and has only bad things to say about the place because of the stories from his dad's experience growing up there and getting his shit beaten in for being a Jew, especially while in the military. He said Russians are racist as f*ck.

I hear ya man. I'd say that in the center you'll be fine generally. There aren't any 'skinheads' or those types running around like they always wrote about in the Western press before I came here. Maybe those guys are more on the outskirts. But I think you gotta use some caution, the simple fact is there are nowhere near as many people of African descent here as there are in most American cities, and you'll 'stand out' a bit, and I bet sometimes get (mostly harmless) looks, but it's always wise to be aware of the situation. But as I said in my data sheet, I've been here over 4.5 years and never seen a fight at a bar or club. Heard a few stories, and some bouncers can be real d*ckheads for sure too.

I would also say that 'escalation' here has a whole different meaning than it does than in the US or Europe. So maybe that creates a situation whereby there's a bit of a 'detente' sorta atmosphere in the public places, but when things go wrong they go wrong bigtime.

As for personal experiences, not really any except one. I remember being a little too drunk a couple summers ago, and stupidly leaning on this big stack of water bottles next to a Stardogs hotdog stand by Mayakovskaya around 10pm waiting for my buddy to get a hot dog. I lost my balance and landed on my @ss, taking the whole neatly stacked of bunch water bottles down with me - a real mess. The guy who was doing the stacking went nuts, pushed me and then pinned me down with another guy (these guys looked like they were from the Caucuses BTW, replete with the circa 1960s Beatles bowl cuts) and then said in broken English "you stupid, you break my bottles, I take your wallet" and then one of them took it and ran down the street, with my license, all my other IDs and ~3000+ Rubles. At the time I felt lucky to have just gotten away with a lost wallet, and clearly I was too drunk and being an idiot at the wrong place/wrong time. Bad move by me and I paid for it. Glad I didn't get beat up really as I was in no condition to fight clearly.

Another story is a buddy of mine at work went home one night, then the next day came into work with a huge black eye, two busted up teeth one of which had penetrated through his lower lips and created a hole that needed to get stitched up. I mean He looked bad. Turns out he had gone home, seen a big truck blocking the entrance to his apartment to the point that he had to go completely around it and squeeze his way into the entrance. Upon seeing the driver of the truck, who was a big burly Russian guy, he started giving him some verbal sh*t (bad move) and the guy took it for like a minute then just clocked him, then drove off. Went down as simple as that.

So in short: these people don't f*ck around with stupid drunks or guys who aren't ready to get physical!

RE the Russian Jewish thing, I've heard this too, but I'm a bit skeptical really, especially considering how well Jewish people have done here. Almost every one of the bigger, top-30 and corrupt oligarchs that sucked billions out of Russia is Jewish, and a lot of the senior representatives, CEOs and business leaders at the state-run companies are as well, so the reality doesn't spell out any sort of predjudice, at least at the top levels. Maybe in some small village it's a different matter, that could def be the case.

A lot of the old NKVD (the KGB's predecessor) and other Communist leaders were Jewish as well (e.g. Beria, Trotsky, etc.) and as they are such a small part of the population I think they get the blame for a lot of what went on back in the day and then after Yeltsin (i.e. the oligarchs for taking so the money out of the country, living extravagent lifestyles (see Abromovich) and then leaving the country and so many poor average Russians behind). So I'm not justifying it, but it's just how it is/was. There's always another side to the story in my opinion. And most of this stuff I'm writing about, while true, is almost never noticed or spoken about in public or polite conversation. But all this stuff is so complicated and I for one don't speak or read Russian well enough to know it from anything more than a 10,000 foot perspective. But I know what I know, and am always a bit dubious when anyone starts putting on the 'woe is me' kinda attitude.

[Hencredible Casanova]

(09-06-2013 07:24 AM)Akula Wrote:  

(09-05-2013 05:08 PM)slubu Wrote:  

(09-05-2013 11:42 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

One more question: do you think that St Petersburg would be a good middle ground between Moscow and the provinces, where the prices are cheaper but the quality is still high?

It has a more relaxed feel to it, maybe like SF and Moscow is NYC. Wish I could offer you more but that's all I got.

Funny I had the exact same thought about Peter versus Moscow when I was up there a couple months ago. St. Pete is definitely an artsier, more underground and more beautiful city whereas Moscow is a bit of the big ugly capital and business center. Having lived in NYC for over 10 years there's also a 'big city vibe' in Moscow that's somewhat similar to NYC in that there are always people buzzing about near the center and walking about even later on at night. So it is kinda a "NYC versus SF" sort of thing in a Russian context.

I think St. Petersburg would potentially be a good 'middle ground' but winters there are brutal I hear (it's farther north and darker, and a deeper more wet/humid cold, even if technically the temperatures aren't that different on average) and the women in Moscow on the whole are just a little better looking and there's more of them, but that said there are plenty of very attractive girls in Peter. Peter is also cheaper than Moscow, by 1/3 to 1/2 for many things.

I went on a couple dates with a girl from St. Pete's in San Francisco actually. No bang. She was quality though. Put great effort into her appearance. Very well dressed, feminine, sociable, and intelligent. Pretty refined chick actually. Would make a good arm piece if you were looking to get serious.

[Hencredible Casanova]

(09-06-2013 07:43 AM)Akula Wrote:  

I would also say that 'escalation' here has a whole different meaning than it does than in the US or Europe. So maybe that creates a situation whereby there's a bit of a 'detente' sorta atmosphere in the public places, but when things go wrong they go wrong bigtime.

Could you explain this a bit? Not sure what you mean.

(09-06-2013 07:43 AM)Akula Wrote:  

RE the Russian Jewish thing, I've heard this too, but I'm a bit skeptical really, especially considering how well Jewish people have done here.

Yeah. They have done well, but Jews as a whole tend to do well wherever they are. Even in pre-Nazi Germany that was the case. Doesn't mean there was no antisemitism.

I know in the case of Russia, there was a mass emigration when the Soviet Union collapsed. Most went to Israel and the US. That was the case for my co-worker's family.

The father of Google's co-founder, Sergey Brin, mentioned his own experience with that as being the reason he moved his fam to the US.

Anyway, great thread. Thanks for the answers.

[coopers317]

(09-06-2013 07:27 AM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

Yeah. I don't really care about people having racist thoughts. Many places I've been have a lot of people like that. What I'm saying though is do I have to pull out the Bruce Lee moves? Big difference between what someone thinks and how someone acts on those thoughts. I think even G said that he had to brawl with some guys in Latvia. How likely is it that I will have to throw down with some Russians?

You know, at one point I was seriously considering going to Latvia, but decided against it based mainly on G's Latvia trip datasheet. I read it and said "forget that!"  Ironically, it is based on his more recent Eastern European Girl Confession thread that I now think that was a mistake.

I should have gone anyway. I love his posts, and I've definitely visited his blog a few times and picked up some great info along the way…I'd love to hang out with G at some point and think it'd be big fun. BUT I've come to the conclusion that we probably roll just a little bit differently, and that our results in dealing with the whole EE mindset and people would reflect that. He is just more 'out there', which may invite a certain element…while my demeanor is probably much more understated and in line with the type described in his EE thread. While some people are make entrances, I for the most part prefer to slip in and out through the side door.

I'll PM you those sites.

[Akula]

(09-06-2013 08:28 AM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

(09-06-2013 07:43 AM)Akula Wrote:  

I would also say that 'escalation' here has a whole different meaning than it does than in the US or Europe. So maybe that creates a situation whereby there's a bit of a 'detente' sorta atmosphere in the public places, but when things go wrong they go wrong bigtime.

Quote:

Could you explain this a bit? Not sure what you mean.

By 'detente' I mean it's kinda like everyone knows that if somethings going down it's likely to escalate, and can escalate quickly and end up being a very bad situation, so most of the time that causes people to be less likely to get into a fight/argument. Obviously alcohol-induced incidents are not subject to this rule

Also, the 'rule of law' here isn't always so clear, and the cops can't necessarily be trusted to do the right thing or be there at all, so I think people here also know that 'you're on your own' pretty much most of the time, which further tends to make you want to be very careful about picking the wrong fight.

(09-06-2013 07:43 AM)Akula Wrote:  

RE the Russian Jewish thing, I've heard this too, but I'm a bit skeptical really, especially considering how well Jewish people have done here.

Quote:

Yeah. They have done well, but Jews as a whole tend to do well wherever they are. Even in pre-Nazi Germany that was the case. Doesn't mean there was no antisemitism.

Yeah, that's a pretty fair point. But in other situations of 'doing well', at least in the American context, I think it's more of a 'self-made' kinda thing, whereas in Russia the oligarchs were simply stealing formerly state-owned properties from the masses through thuggery, threats, intimidation, 'loans for shares' to unsuspecting grannies, killing, etc. bc that's how tough business was back in the early 1990s. I mean these guys have very little capital coming out of the FSU, then all of a sudden they've got $5-10 billion 7 years later after 'acquiring' and 'buying' up state assets. Not the same as building a business IMO. But sure seems they didn't have toooo many issues along the way with 'antisemitism' or at least it didni't prevent them from the end game.

Quote:

I know in the case of Russia, there was a mass emigration when the Soviet Union collapsed. Most went to Israel and the US. That was the case for my co-worker's family.

I think in general they were dying to get out anyway at that time as many of those in the Jewish people were historically the traders, merchants, financiers etc. So they had a better pedigree and 'leg up' and just knew things about the West and trade that other more simple Russians didn't, and they were much more likely and ready to capitalize on getting out. They had ready-made communities in the US in New York and in Israel that I'm guessing the other Russians didn't have too maybe? They were also less likely to be more nationalistic and 'buy' the storyline of how great the "Party" and "Glorious & Great Soviet Union" really were. I think by the end that most people in the FSU were pretty disenchanted with how things had gone, hence the 'revolution'. Also, I think that the FSU actually had a period of time where they let out a lot of Russian-Jews in the late 60s/70s too, so there was a 'first-wave' that had already settled. This is what Americans and most Europeans think about when they talk about the Russian population in places like Brighton Beach I think (in addition to the ones that had immigrated in the early 1900s). But even post-Cold War all the oligarchs knew how to capitalize on the newly opened up open system (or lack thereof) and other Russian-Jewish guys like Victor Bout knew how to run guns, etc.

Quote:

The father of Google's co-founder, Sergey Brin, mentioned his own experience with that as being the reason he moved his fam to the US.

Yeah, I heard that, but given how entrepreneurial he is, and the lack of that avenue here there (e.g. even if you do build a business, the local politicians, police and oligarchs all want a piece of the pie once you start making enough money to show up on the radar screen, and you tend to lose your business by being forced to sell out) there must have been plenty of reasons. And as I said earlier, many of the senior people at many of the big firms here plus many if not most of the major oligarchs are Jewish, so some of the reality doesn't match with what your friend says. Just saying -but by the same token, I don't want to 'hate' on people for being successful.

Anyway, great thread. Thanks for the answers.

Sure no problem...great thread!!

[ChrisGambi]

St Pete much better. I'm so shocked by your analysis. I think it may be a bit scewed because you went to moscow last. Moscwites are the unfriendlist people by far, in fact moscow is the only city in russia i came across a lot of unfriendlyness. The girls are such goldsoggers, and you get them after the are alteady worn because the had to fuck their way to the capital. I think once your russian is better you ll be able to convert the wgf into lays the provice is the place to be.

[William Windsor]

That's interesting to hear Chris. Thanks for the feedback. I wonder if having Akula and Menace in Moscow helped Slubu. And didn't he go to Tomsk and Novo without any datasheet to work from?

People's experiences in cities are so random. Roosh met a dreamgirl on one of his last night's out in Odessa. He talked about being tired and almost not going out that night. What if Roosh writes one of those comparison sheets of similar cities, how does Odessa's score change because he mustered-up the energy to go out that one night?

[Menace]

I don't think I helped slubu very much, aside from winging one night. Chris, why would I want to live or visit provincial Russian cities? I like the amenities that a big city provides, as well as the range of options available for activities. Sure, the girls may be sweeter in provincial cities (although this is not a guarantee), but so what? I can't speak for others, but girls, while important, are not the be-all and end-all of such a trip for me.

[slubu]

I'll tell you guys something. I secretly think Novosibirsk has the sluttiest girls I met on this trip. Why? There is NOTHING To do in that city. I would never be able to live there long term, random threesomes or not.

Well maybe I shouldn't go that far , but I don't imagine that happens on a consistent basis.

Yes I went to Novo and Tomsk without any data, and as you guys saw a bit of a wild ride.

[Quintus Curtius]

This is just epic.
Awesome job, Slubu.
A new standard in travel & game reporting that I hope to aspire to.

QC

[Tail Gunner]

(09-06-2013 06:08 AM)Chaos Wrote:  

(09-05-2013 08:59 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

One question, and I hate to bring up race since mileage varies from person to person regardless, but I noticed in one your replies that you said Kiev is the most racist place you've been to. How so? Any examples? As a black guy I wonder if there's even a point to go to places like Russia and deep EE countries since they are sketchy in general, let alone folks who stand out.

I've been all over Russia the last five months and I would say the racism do exist, but only to a certain point. When Russian people talk about " Black people" they refer to all people that have looks like Turks and Indians and darker. African people they usually call to "Negers".

An important point to consider: Just because you hear a version of this word does not mean that it is being used as a slur. Many languages have no word for a person with black skin, so they may use a version of this word merely as a descriptive term. So, do not assume malicious intent.

Moreover, do not assume malice from hard stares in rural areas. They may never have seen a black man in their lives -- and are simply curious or perhaps even stunned. What would you do if you suddenly saw a purple dude? The same thing happens to white guys in rural China.

Always check your assumptions at the door while visiting a foreign land.

[BCZalgyris]

(09-05-2013 08:59 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

Slubu - This is the greatest data sheet I've ever read. Period. Very inspiring. I was going to rep you but I already did long ago for a Buenos Aires sheet you made. You've been writing good sheets for a long time. I remember your NYC one was very accurate. This sheet features some new innovations which I hope to see more of in the future. The number stats are fun to read and more efficient than long form narratives. I don't think I could personally keep a mental note of all of those variables because I'd get overwhelmed (I approach anything that passes the boner test) but the fact you did keep track does help gauge how these different cities compare. Great value.

One question, and I hate to bring up race since mileage varies from person to person regardless, but I noticed in one your replies that you said Kiev is the most racist place you've been to. How so? Any examples? As a black guy I wonder if there's even a point to go to places like Russia and deep EE countries since they are sketchy in general, let alone folks who stand out.

Hencredible Casanova, see my thread on "Racism in Kiev". The bottom line is that in most places you will be the most visible person and if some type of argument happens or even if a local gopnick perceives that you wronged him in some way then trouble would arise very quickly and the bouncers would definitely not be on your side.

However, if you have your shit together, learn a couple sentences of Russian, present yourself well, and smile then you will have a huge advantage over the many hordes of other darker skinned tourists, specifically those from the Middle East and N. Africa as in many clubs & bars I visited in Kiev I noticed that many women were tired of them.
By the end of our trip my African-American friend had learned a few Russian words and in many situations just him approaching groups of girls
in heavily accented Russian and asking simple questions like "kak tvoi den" would elicit a positive response and laugh and would immediately be followed up with "where are you from"? That actually worked much better than me going into lengthy dialogues in near-fluent Russian with the local girls and trying to impress them with my perceived intelligence which almost always failed. I would even say the BGF (Black God Factor) was evident a few times....Btw, my black friend never did get laid in Kiev (although he got to 3rd base with a semi-pro there) but he attributes it fully to partying too hard and specifically for being too drunk most nights.

If you go out to the classier joints and introduce yourself as being from USA (NYC lie ALWAYS works!) and immediately differentiate yourself from the few "refugee looking" guys I saw around Kiev centre then you'll be viewed as exotic and highly desirable by a large minority of the UA girls.

P.S. If you do go to Kiev see if you can be the first minority guy from these forums to get into Shooters. I will give you much respect then and definitely a rep point